Ryno aka Menace Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 OK- everyone on this board I think at sometime has made a comment or suggestion concerning the Zips moving to the Big East. Some have the attitude that we should jump all over the chance and others have the attitude that "lets win more first or they are not in a hurry to be at the bottom of a different conference.My feelings about the scenario was split until i was enlightened by my 11 year old daughter. She overheard me talking about it with one of my buddies, and she simple said what i always preach to her. "You should take advantage of every opportunity because you may not get another." It is without a doubt gonna happen (the addition of more teams), we need to prepare ourselves for "advancement" whether it is in the Big East or the MAC.Lastly, NOTHING GETS ME MORE PISSED, then when people say Akron will always be a mid level school. I say that is BS. If you think small you will always be small.“If you limit your choices only to what seems possible or reasonable, you disconnect yourself from what you truly want, and all that is left is compromise.†Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zips1982 Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Let's be honest here though the Zips are doing well. There are a number of reasons why the Big East will never happen. First, we are no where near being in a major media market. One of their main criteria is media market i.e. Chicago, New York City or at least close to one. I have a good friend that was at DePaul during there transition to the Big East and he was a coach there so he knows what was happening. He stated there is certain things that need to be in place for each team. One thing he mentioned was size of stadiums for all sports. He once told me that the Big East will be split up in a matter of years to an all basketball league and then football/basketball league. Before the move, there were talks of an all-catholic sports league including DePaul, Marquette, St. John's, Villanova, Providence and a couple others, but that obviously fizzled.I can see us maybe one day being in Conference USA as we could probably compete well in basketball and football plus a few other sports. If we moved conferences there is a major problem, the athletic budget would probably have to be tripled, if not doubled. To be honest, I am happy where we are but it would be nice to be playing some big name schools day in and day out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipsbandman Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Okay, two major things need to happen before I am willing to accept the possiblility. 1) We need more championships...way more and we need to win our bowl games. Toledo already has several titles in football. We also need to show that we can compete with the BCS schools. 2) This stadium needs to be built and soon. It needs to be the finest facility in the MAC too. The rubber bowl is a complete dump and now they are covering up seats. Stadium talk has been ongoing well before I even got to college and it seems like nothing is moving forward. I'll believe this one when I see it.Few other points....Memphis and possibly Central Florida would go before any MAC school is even considered. ANy MAC school that would move to the Big East would most surely be a bottom feeder. Does anyone actually see us competing with Syracuse, Pitt, or WVU in hoops? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryno aka Menace Posted May 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 I understand what your getting at by mentioning Media Market but what do you call Cleveland, and last time I check Virginia Tech, TCU, Boston College and Louiville are top 25 teams and they aren't located in a major market areas. Everyone can agree that California, Texas, Florida, and Ohio have the best football in the country...and you know what all the states mentioned have atleast 2 ta 3 teams that are in the top 25 at any given time except ohio.As far as taking Memphis before AU I would agree but right now that conference has only 8 teams, I bet they would add atleast 4 teams for a 12 team conference like most conferences...and we may not be able to compete in basketball right away but in football...syracuse, uconn, cinci, and rutgers are not that tough we could compete with any of those teams right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Does anyone actually see us competing with Syracuse, Pitt, or WVU in hoops? Does anyone ever think we could compete with Mississippi State or Temple in hoops? Oh wait...we did. And we did in a season where we weren't even the best team in the MAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msopher Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 In all honesty, I think teams like Akron, Toledo, and Miami have a serious chance of being looked at by the Big East in the next 2-3 years becuase of their recent success in football and basketball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipboy Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 In all honesty, I think teams like Akron, Toledo, and Miami have a serious chance of being looked at by the Big East in the next 2-3 years becuase of their recent success in football and basketball. I agree with Msopher. One, I love the MAC. But depending how the Big East shakes out, if 3 or 4 MAC teams leave, I won't love the MAC anymore. Rivalrywise, we are a perfect fit for the Big East. I disagree on not being a fit demographically. Looking at the football/basketball league, you have Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Rutgers, UConn, WVU, Cincy, and Louisville. If anything, Toledo, Buffalo, and Akron fit perfectly into that both in terms of city and university population.With respect to budget, you are right, we would need to basically double our budget from around 14M per year to almost 25M per year. So would any other MAC school.In regards to recruiting, I trust Dambrot and JD. JD is already beating the Big East for recruits. We have better football facilities than any Big East school today. The new stadium puts us right there. Recruiting should be easier in the Big East. It clearly makes us near the top in Ohio after osu. Do I see as as shoe in, no. Do I see Akron striving to keep getting better and putting them in a position to have this option in the future, yes. I don't get the we are just Akron talk either. We are in a major city with a phenomenal recruiting area and have people in place who know what they are doing. Talk about catching lightening in a bottle, it is all there for the taking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balki Bartokomous Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Everytime I see a thread like this, I want to slam my head against a wall. Christ, lets worry about the MAC. Wait until we don't have to get as lucky as all hell to win it before you start going off on "well, heck, we had one winning season, lets move to the Big East" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryno aka Menace Posted May 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Everytime I see a thread like this, I want to slam my head against a wall. Christ, lets worry about the MAC. Wait until we don't have to get as lucky as all hell to win it before you start going off on "well, heck, we had one winning season, lets move to the Big East"1. We are not saying lets move right now, what we are saying what needs to happen to prepare us for "when" the Big East either breaks up or adds universities. - Like winning more MAC championships.2. We are talking about what we need to do to be a favorable choice. - Someone brought up a great point about media market and facilities.3. We are talking about when we "do" continue to have success and the opportunity is there "should we take it"I have alumni friends that feel they never want to go to the Big East no matter how well we do cause it is a conference that isn't much better than the MAC football wise (aside for WVU). Some see it as a minor step up with schools like Rutgers, UConn, and Syracuse. Some people would rather see us go to CUSA. I don't agree, personally feel that Conference USA isn't a step up at all. So what do you feel? Build up the conference we are in or move on? That is the question. I know...I know....lets not worry about moving lets worry about winning more MAC championships but last time I checked it was ok to set long term goals.So far I have heard GREAT comments, like media market, budget expense, travel demographics, being a single sport or all sport member. etc. This board is full of intelligent people, I just thought with all this intelligence there would be more optimistic views.Balki you may not wanna leave the MAC and that is fine, but do you wanna stay in the MAC if Toledo, Miami of Ohio, and BG leave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelegazna Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 I'm not sure there's much to debate here. If the Big East were to invite us, 90% of us would want to make the move and I am positive that the administration would jump all over it.But I don't know how much sense it should make to have this as a "goal" because it's out of our control. We can't just show up at the Big East offices one day and say, "Hi, we are moving in." They have to invite us. And they wouldn't invite us now. I am as optimistic about the future as anyone, but not only are there CUSA schools, but several other MAC schools that put more butts in the seats in all sports than we do and have a longer record of success than we do, and would (AS OF TODAY) get invited before we would.So the only "goal" we should be setting is to do whatever possible to put more butts in the seats and win as many championships in as many sports as possible. Then we will be in position to get an invite. Since getting an invitation to any conference isn't promised to any school, all we can and should focus on is building a successful and profitable athletic department and let the chips fall where they may.Just as annoying to me as the cynics who would stay in the MAC are the people who are acting as though our promotion to the Big East is a foregone conclusion. If it happens, I'm sure those same people will say, "So when will be making the move to the Big Ten and assume our rightful place as the flagship university of Ohio?"And CK, you're not seriously comparing Mississippi State to Syracuse and Pitt, are you? I think we were even favored in the Mississippi State game.Ryno, the reason Texas, Florida, and California have more perennial top 25 teams than Ohio is that all of those states have populations at least 50% greater than Ohio, (and over 100% in the case of Cali and Texas). More people, more students, more booster $, etc to spread around. Actually, we an in BETTER college football shape overall as a state than some states ahead of us in population (New York, Illinois, and Pennsylvania, at least when Pitt is having a down year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 I think our goal should be to put together consitently winning programs and capture the interest of the NEOhio media market whose only collegiate interests currently gaze down state. It wont be easy, but it is do-able, particularly if we start beating BCS teams and getting NCAA tourney bids.A big conference transfer will come after our athletic programs/department and our campus starts looking more like a Big Conference School. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryno aka Menace Posted May 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 .......Ryno, the reason Texas, Florida, and California have more perennial top 25 teams than Ohio is that all of those states have populations at least 50% greater than Ohio, (and over 100% in the case of Cali and Texas). More people, more students, more booster $, etc to spread around. Actually, we an in BETTER college football shape overall as a state than some states ahead of us in population (New York, Illinois, and Pennsylvania, at least when Pitt is having a down year).Good point!! I didn't think of it that way....it's just I am sick of the Michigan and Penn States stealing Ohio talent. Hell ohio has kids going to Kentucky and Indiana just because of the conference they are in...and I feel they aren't any better than Akron. If we could get 20% of the kids that don't go to Ohio State we would be alot more competitive.NE ohio has fair weather fans when it comes to any team in the state except the buckeyes. Right now I think the biggest challenge will be putting people in the stands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipsbandman Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 NE ohio has fair weather fans when it comes to any team in the state except the buckeyes. Right now I think the biggest challenge will be putting people in the stands Definitely not true with the browns but i wonder how it would be if osu was a loser? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 And CK, you're not seriously comparing Mississippi State to Syracuse and Pitt, are you? You exact quote was: "Does anyone actually see us competing with Syracuse, Pitt, or WVU in hoops?" The answer is: Yes. If we can beat Mississippi State and Temple, we can compete with Pitt, WVa and Syracuse.Were Pitt, WVA and Syracuse better than Temple and Mississippi State in 2005-6? Yes. However, that was not your point.Look at the last decade in it's entirety. You will see Mississippi State and Temple are essentially the same as Pitt, WVa and Syracuse. Pitt sucked ass only a few years ago. In their best season of the last four years they lost to MAC school Can't in the NCAA's. Pitt is hardly a "Duke" or "North Carolina."Three years ago WVa was essentially Drew Schifino and a bunch of stiffs. Even Dan Dakich turned down WVa's job offer because their program was such a mess.Next season Pitt and WVA will each lose several key players to graduation. The Zips will be a 26-win team. We undoubtedly will compete with Syracuse...Pitt...or WVa next season, should we get the opportunity. If you such competition is unlikely, you need to do some homework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipsbandman Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Next season Pitt and WVA will each lose several key players to graduation. The Zips will be a 26-win team. We undoubtedly will compete with Syracuse...Pitt...or WVa next season, should we get the opportunity. If you such competition is unlikely, you need to do some homework. :blink: 26 wins??What has Cribbs been giving you? I'm all about confidence but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 :blink: 26 wins??What has Cribbs been giving you? I'm all about confidence but... Hell...we won 23 this season. 26 is actually on the conservative side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelegazna Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Next season Pitt and WVA will each lose several key players to graduation. The Zips will be a 26-win team. We undoubtedly will compete with Syracuse...Pitt...or WVa next season, should we get the opportunity. If you such competition is unlikely, you need to do some homework.:blink: 26 wins??What has Cribbs been giving you? I'm all about confidence but... It wouldn't surprise me if we held our own next year against Syracuse or Pitt next year. I'm just saying that beating Mississippi State last year is hardly ANY kind of barometer of that competitiveness. It's a BIG stretch to say that Miss. State was "basically the same" as Pitt and Syracuse over the scope of the last ten years (and I didn't even bring West Virginia into it, so there's no point elaborating on them), but even if I grant you that point, last year we beat a team that finished one game clear of the SEC basement. Syracuse, by contrast, won the Big East tournament. Pitt spent much of the year in the top ten. The gap between Pitt/Syr amd Mississippi State is BIIIIG, no matter how many players they lose. They are on a different recruiting plane.That said (Zipsbandman), why is 26 wins next year such a big stretch? Everyone returns except Futch, Peterson, and Preston, and that loss is somewhat offset by the return of JW. 26 wins is only three more than last year. It's definitely doable.Again CK, I agree we could have a squad that could compete with almost anybody next year. I couldn't be more excited. I just don't think Mississippi State illustrates our progress very well. That's all. Anything we take out of beating them, Southeast Louisiana can take out of it, 'cause they beat them too. By the same margin we did. In Starkville, no less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickzips Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Take care of business where we are now and whatever shakes out, shakes out. No sense in getting distracted by looking at the Big East and forgetting about what we've got going on now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balki Bartokomous Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Everytime I see a thread like this, I want to slam my head against a wall. Christ, lets worry about the MAC. Wait until we don't have to get as lucky as all hell to win it before you start going off on "well, heck, we had one winning season, lets move to the Big East"1. We are not saying lets move right now, what we are saying what needs to happen to prepare us for "when" the Big East either breaks up or adds universities. - Like winning more MAC championships.2. We are talking about what we need to do to be a favorable choice. - Someone brought up a great point about media market and facilities.3. We are talking about when we "do" continue to have success and the opportunity is there "should we take it"I have alumni friends that feel they never want to go to the Big East no matter how well we do cause it is a conference that isn't much better than the MAC football wise (aside for WVU). Some see it as a minor step up with schools like Rutgers, UConn, and Syracuse. Some people would rather see us go to CUSA. I don't agree, personally feel that Conference USA isn't a step up at all. So what do you feel? Build up the conference we are in or move on? That is the question. I know...I know....lets not worry about moving lets worry about winning more MAC championships but last time I checked it was ok to set long term goals.So far I have heard GREAT comments, like media market, budget expense, travel demographics, being a single sport or all sport member. etc. This board is full of intelligent people, I just thought with all this intelligence there would be more optimistic views.Balki you may not wanna leave the MAC and that is fine, but do you wanna stay in the MAC if Toledo, Miami of Ohio, and BG leave? I never said I wanted the Zips to stay in the MAC forever. But for god's sake. We had ONE good (and very lucky) year. Hell, we aren't even the favorite to win the MAC again this year and we really didn't lose much to graduation. I'm sure every team in college would love to move up. If USC got the chance, im sure they would join the WNBA. But we should be focusing on trying to repeat as MAC champs. I'm sure the last thing going through JD's head is "Hmm, why should I worry about the MAC? The Big East/Conference USA/Mark May's basement is a much more respectable place to be."Our long term goals should be to build a winning program that consistantly wins the MAC. Worrying about something that we have no control over is stupid. We have control over the MAC, not the B.E. asking us to join. Play ball to win here, and what ever happens because of it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipsbandman Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 .That said (Zipsbandman), why is 26 wins next year such a big stretch? Everyone returns except Futch, Peterson, and Preston, and that loss is somewhat offset by the return of JW. 26 wins is only three more than last year. It's definitely doable. We don't have a big man or any overall size for that matter. Our biggest guy is a 6'9 project? I know that's not the see all tell all attribute of a good team, but when you want to stack up against the big boys and win the MAC championship it sure helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip N' Dots Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 If you look at the MAC, there is a lack of size across the board. You can win and be competitive in the MAC without size. Going out of conference is where the problem will be when it comes to competing and winning. Look at the Cal Bears and Nevada games from last year. They had size and they won because of it.Do I think we should go after size YES! But it's not needed to win and be successful in the MAC and since that is the conference we play in that is the conference we need to be concerned about! I wold love to move to the Big East, but it's not going to happen anytime soon.Captain good call on the Mississippi State and the Temple games. Akron basketball is on the up. Now how do we get the fans there to support them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 If you look at the MAC, there is a lack of size across the board. You can win and be competitive in the MAC without size. Going out of conference is where the problem will be when it comes to competing and winning. Look at the Cal Bears and Nevada games from last year. They had size and they won because of it.I think "big man" size is the one thing that really separates the "mid major" from the "major" in both basketball and football. Look at the difficulties we've had trying to get legit defensive linemen in football. The big boys get the kids with size and grades. We often get either:Grades, and hope they fill out to a decent sizeorDecent size, and hope they can make the gradesSometimes you get lucky with a Kiki Gonzales that was a prop 48, but subsequently got his academics squared away. Or a Jason Taylor, whom we go because bigger schools were afraid of his "home schooling" background. But you can hardly bank on that. LB's...RB's...DB's...even QB's are positions MAC schools can fill with talent that has a good mix of grades and skills. Being undersized isn't such a killer at LB, DB, RB, etc. When you play Penn State and you're undersized at DL, you're in trouble.In hoops, OSU gets the 7' 1" Parade all-americans. MAC schools need to get lucky and develop a John Edwards or Chris Kaman. NIU had a couple 7-footers on their roster this year and they were much closer to Matt Seibert than Chris Kaman. That's typically the rule rather than the exception.Maybe we get lucky with Bardo and he sprouts up a couple inches? That's the only way we'll ever get a solid 7-footer at Akron. But...I don't think we need one. You can win in the MAC with a 6' 8" center. And, if you're well coached and surround your 6'6" - 6' 8" front court with some good perimeter talent, you can win games beyond the MAC as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryno aka Menace Posted May 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 If you look at the MAC, there is a lack of size across the board. You can win and be competitive in the MAC without size. Going out of conference is where the problem will be when it comes to competing and winning. Look at the Cal Bears and Nevada games from last year. They had size and they won because of it.I think "big man" size is the one thing that really separates the "mid major" from the "major" in both basketball and football. Look at the difficulties we've had trying to get legit defensive linemen in football. The big boys get the kids with size and grades. We often get either:Grades, and hope they fill out to a decent sizeorDecent size, and hope they can make the gradesSometimes you get lucky with a Kiki Gonzales that was a prop 48, but subsequently got his academics squared away. Or a Jason Taylor, whom we go because bigger schools were afraid of his "home schooling" background. But you can hardly bank on that. LB's...RB's...DB's...even QB's are positions MAC schools can fill with talent that has a good mix of grades and skills. Being undersized isn't such a killer at LB, DB, RB, etc. When you play Penn State and you're undersized at DL, you're in trouble.In hoops, OSU gets the 7' 1" Parade all-americans. MAC schools need to get lucky and develop a John Edwards or Chris Kaman. NIU had a couple 7-footers on their roster this year and they were much closer to Matt Seibert than Chris Kaman. That's typically the rule rather than the exception.Maybe we get lucky with Bardo and he sprouts up a couple inches? That's the only way we'll ever get a solid 7-footer at Akron. But...I don't think we need one. You can win in the MAC with a 6' 8" center. And, if you're well coached and surround your 6'6" - 6' 8" front court with some good perimeter talent, you can win games beyond the MAC as well. Damn Captain..your on fire!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gozips19 Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 the capt. is right by saying we have to work with what we have and right now we have a good basketball and football team at a mid major level. also we have very poor attendence in football and decent attendence in basketball is little to no money from t.v. moving to any conference is going to take some time to build. the steps that need to be taken have been stated already but to go from point a to z isn't going to happen.to address two questions specificly cusa would be a big step up as long as either memphis or ucf stayed due to the fact that they have a t.v. deal with cstv (i think they are the only conference ) were they'll get more money expossure and that will cover travel costs. as for the have's and the have nots we shouldn't compair ourselves with the top dogs of the big east ie; wvu... look at some of the middle teams and they face some of the problems that akron faces. for example i have a hard time seeing rutgures getting 7 footers year after year and i don't see uconn getting large d tackles ever year either.... after we are playing football games at home and average more than 20k a game and sell out 90% of our basketball ball games we have a long way to go but we do have a base and that is enough to get excited about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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