Jrship35 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 FIRE BOWDEN !!!!!! HE SUX !!!Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 The hyperbole in this thread is making me nauseous. Bowden has said time and again that he wants to redshirt any and all freshmen he recruits if at all possible.At what point last season would you have suggested that we burn our redshirts in the hopes of turning things around? When we were 4-3 with 5 games to go? Even at 4-4, there was hope of winning the MAC East and going bowling. Would you burn redshirts with four games left and a shot at the division? The season didn't really go down the tubes until there were only three games remaining.How do you judge a recruiting class that hasn't stepped foot on the field? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I couldn't care less how NIU compares to P5 doormats. Meaningless. What I care about is the Zips being ranked at the bottom of the MAC. Below UMass. Below EMU. Below Can't Freaking State.When it comes to what these rankings measure, which is by and large the rating of your class of high school kids who enter the program in the traditional period, Akron has got to be a legitimate DEAD LAST. If this was the only way Akron was filling the roster we would be in deep shit. However, this Bowden regime has got to be the most unorthodox recruiting staff of all time and we all need to wait and see if there will be any fifth year guys who will come in and play. I'm sure there will be another list of transfers that will surface one by one over the Spring and Summer who will have to sit a year.The real discussion we should be having is about the Bowden recruiting philosophy. It certainly is different, to say the least.I used NIU because they're always ranked 90 or worse going back many years, below so many teams that they are clearly better than. The rankings ARE meaningless. That's my point.So if you think that NIU's ranking is meaningless, then why are you using those same rankings as a reason to bitch about Akron's high school recruiting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrship35 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 The hyperbole in this thread is making me nauseous. Bowden has said time and again that he wants to redshirt any and all freshmen he recruits if at all possible.At what point last season would you have suggested that we burn our redshirts in the hopes of turning things around? When we were 4-3 with 5 games to go? Even at 4-4, there was hope of winning the MAC East and going bowling. Would you burn redshirts with four games left and a shot at the division? The season didn't really go down the tubes until there were only three games remaining.How do you judge a recruiting class that hasn't stepped foot on the field?Thank you Lord for logic !!! Thank You Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 The hyperbole in this thread is making me nauseous. Bowden has said time and again that he wants to redshirt any and all freshmen he recruits if at all possible.At what point last season would you have suggested that we burn our redshirts in the hopes of turning things around? When we were 4-3 with 5 games to go? Even at 4-4, there was hope of winning the MAC East and going bowling. Would you burn redshirts with four games left and a shot at the division? The season didn't really go down the tubes until there were only three games remaining.How do you judge a recruiting class that hasn't stepped foot on the field?Redshirting every single freshman seems like a pretty good way to cement yourself at the bottom of the recruiting rankings every year. "Hey come to Akron, you have 0% chance to play next year." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrship35 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 But answer the question ....... At what point of the season would you have wasted the red shirt and had the freshmen play ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 But answer the question ....... At what point of the season would you have wasted the red shirt and had the freshmen play ?Day 1? I would have played the ones from the beginning that deserved PT. If they didn't deserve PT then that tells you a lot about last year's recruiting class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Don't get me wrong, if there were playmakers that didn't see the field last year, I'm pumped to watch them this year. But from a recruiting perspective, I don't think it helps to have a policy that every freshman redshirts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrship35 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Doesn't tell me that at all ....... Tells me that the season was going along as planned and it was a better long term decision to red shirt the freshmen to better develop them. Then when the season totally went to hell with three games left ..... There was no way any of those Freshmen was going to make an impact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Doesn't tell me that at all ....... Tells me that the season was going along as planned and it was a better long term decision to red shirt the freshmen to better develop them.Then when the season totally went to hell with three games left ..... There was no way any of those Freshmen was going to make an impactI think the call to not panic and burn the red shirts with 3 games left was right. That's a waste. I'm just not a big fan of redshirting EVERY single freshman. I understand it though - go 7-5, get to a bowl game, and then add an entire freshman class with a year of experience in the program. I just have a different mindset, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyzip84 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Jatavis Brown is the best Bowden recruit. Conor Hundley is the 2nd best Bowden "high school" recruit. They are Seniors. That's a mighty short list for year 4 if recruiting has really picked up like you say it has.This motivated me to look into this a little closer. First, I took the 2012-2014 class lists verbatim (DeAndre Scott didn't show up in the original list as I think he was a late recruit that 1st year). Second, I removed any JC or other transfers. Then, I removed any player who is no longer on the roster. Below is what remains:2012 Name Pos. Ht. Wt. High schoolChristian Allen FB-DL 6-2 247 Morgantown (W.Va.)Jatavis Brown LB 6-1 190 Glades Central (Fla.)Michael Casimos OL 6-4 280 Don Bosco (N.J.)Imani Davis CB 5-10 170 Belen Jesuit (Fla.)Wade Edwards RB 5-10 170 Armwood (Fla.)Dylan Evans LB 6-2 190 Pen Argyl (Pa.)Bryan Green RB 5-10 195 Farmington (Mich.)Alfonso Horner DE 6-3 215 Belen Jesuit (Fla.)Conor Hundley RB 5-11 Cincinnati (St. Xavier)Daryan Martin DE 6-4 215 Cincinnati (Princeton)Andrew Pratt WR 6-5 205 GreenQuaison Osborne OL 6-4 300 HudsonJohn Rachal LB 6-2 210 Dillard (Fla.)DeAndre Scott CB 5-11 180 Fredrick (Md.)Josh Smith CB 6-2 185 Cincinnati (Western Hills)James Turner S 6-0 190 Fairfield 2013 Name Pos. Ht. Wt. HometownMykel Traylor-Bennett WR 6-4 200 ReynoldsburgStephen Erickson G 6-4 285 SherrodsvilleLavonne Gauthney DT 6-2 300 ReynoldsburgZach Guiser S 6-1 205 Fayette City, Pa.Mikee Hayes CB 5-11 180 Ocala, Fla.Michael Kish OL 6-5 260 PittsburghRyan Kortokrax OL 6-4 285 HavilandJerome Lane LB 6-4 210 AkronAnthony Lauro RB-WR 5-10 195 Bradenton, Fla.Deon’tae Moore LB 6-4 205 AkronManny Morgan RB 5-9 190 Naples, Fla.Austin Wolf WR 6-4 200 LebanonThomas Woodson QB 6-2 225 Monroeville, Pa. 2014 Name Pos. Ht. Wt. HometownJamal Baggett S 5-11 185 Oak Park, Ill*Brock Boxen DL 6-2 250 New Galilee, Pa.Kyron Brown CB 6-1 170 Boynton Beach, Fla.Undrea Bullard DL 6-6 250 St. Petersburg, Fla.*Travonte Junius DE/LB 6-3 205 Akron, OhioChandler Kincade QB 6-5 230 Beaver Falls, Pa.Kyle Ritz OL 6-5 295 Willoughby, Ohio*Jason Williams DB 6-3 185 Hialeah, Fla.Newman Williams LB 6-2 240 Akron, Ohio* also part of 2015 class Edit: I thought of a few others who fall into the late signee category: RB Hakeem Lawrence (2012) and PK Tim O'Leary (2014). Lane and Scott are probably the 3rd and 4th best performers after Jatavis and Conor. There are some other contributors (Davis, Evans, Horner, Pratt, Osborne, Rachal, MTB, Woodson), but none have really distinguished themselves on the field so far. I'll clarify my position on Bowden somewhat. I accept that he inherited the worst of all situations. He's chosen to recruit to his strengths early with the heavy influx of transfers. At some point (and I believe 2015 is probably the last shot, given the schedule, this being his 4th year, etc) you need to win to be able to convince the better MAC-level HS players UA is the place to come. I don't care how good of a coach you are, if you don't deliver in a certain period, your name no longer matters. I believe he'll be the Zip coach for the next 3 seasons at a minimum, in part because of the mess he inherited. But the winning must start in 2015 or else the remaining years won't be much fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipgrad01 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 FIRE BOWDEN !!!!!! HE SUX !!!LolNobody ever said that he should be fired, but there are far too many kool aid drinkers on this site that are scared to be critical of him. If you think that I am off base with my evaluation of his recruiting then pull up the classes from 2013 and 2014 and show me what they have done to help this program. They have basically had zero impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K92 Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Interesting. Fixed it. I'm pretty sure you knew I meant day but then again I was talking about PJ Fleck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipgrad01 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Day 1? I would have played the ones from the beginning that deserved PT. If they didn't deserve PT then that tells you a lot about last year's recruiting class.absolutely. You think urban Meyer and nick Saban are "saving" guys for the next season? If a freshman can play he bumps an all american. Like I said, he has to say this garbage to give his transfers time to win and help his high school recruiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrship35 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Lol. Kook aid drinkers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipgrad01 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 This motivated me to look into this a little closer. First, I took the 2012-2014 class lists verbatim (DeAndre Scott didn't show up in the original list as I think he was a late recruit that 1st year). Second, I removed any JC or other transfers. Then, I removed any player who is no longer on the roster. Below is what remains:2012Name Pos. Ht. Wt. High schoolChristian Allen FB-DL 6-2 247 Morgantown (W.Va.)Jatavis Brown LB 6-1 190 Glades Central (Fla.)Michael Casimos OL 6-4 280 Don Bosco (N.J.)Imani Davis CB 5-10 170 Belen Jesuit (Fla.)Wade Edwards RB 5-10 170 Armwood (Fla.)Dylan Evans LB 6-2 190 Pen Argyl (Pa.)Bryan Green RB 5-10 195 Farmington (Mich.)Alfonso Horner DE 6-3 215 Belen Jesuit (Fla.)Conor Hundley RB 5-11 Cincinnati (St. Xavier)Daryan Martin DE 6-4 215 Cincinnati (Princeton)Andrew Pratt WR 6-5 205 GreenQuaison Osborne OL 6-4 300 HudsonJohn Rachal LB 6-2 210 Dillard (Fla.)DeAndre Scott CB 5-11 180 Fredrick (Md.)Josh Smith CB 6-2 185 Cincinnati (Western Hills)James Turner S 6-0 190 Fairfield2013Name Pos. Ht. Wt. HometownMykel Traylor-Bennett WR 6-4 200 ReynoldsburgStephen Erickson G 6-4 285 SherrodsvilleLavonne Gauthney DT 6-2 300 ReynoldsburgZach Guiser S 6-1 205 Fayette City, Pa.Mikee Hayes CB 5-11 180 Ocala, Fla.Michael Kish OL 6-5 260 PittsburghRyan Kortokrax OL 6-4 285 HavilandJerome Lane LB 6-4 210 AkronAnthony Lauro RB-WR 5-10 195 Bradenton, Fla.Deontae Moore LB 6-4 205 AkronManny Morgan RB 5-9 190 Naples, Fla.Austin Wolf WR 6-4 200 LebanonThomas Woodson QB 6-2 225 Monroeville, Pa.2014Name Pos. Ht. Wt. HometownJamal Baggett S 5-11 185 Oak Park, Ill*Brock Boxen DL 6-2 250 New Galilee, Pa.Kyron Brown CB 6-1 170 Boynton Beach, Fla.Undrea Bullard DL 6-6 250 St. Petersburg, Fla.*Travonte Junius DE/LB 6-3 205 Akron, OhioChandler Kincade QB 6-5 230 Beaver Falls, Pa.Kyle Ritz OL 6-5 295 Willoughby, Ohio*Jason Williams DB 6-3 185 Hialeah, Fla.Newman Williams LB 6-2 240 Akron, Ohio* also part of 2015 classLane and Scott are probably the 3rd and 4th best performers after Jatavis and Conor. There are some other contributors (Davis, Evans, Horner, Pratt, Osborne, Rachal, MTB, Woodson), but none have really distinguished themselves on the field so far.I'll clarify my position on Bowden somewhat. I accept that he inherited the worst of all situations. He's chosen to recruit to his strengths early with the heavy influx of transfers. At some point (and I believe 2015 is probably the last shot, given the schedule, this being his 4th year, etc) you need to win to be able to convince the better MAC-level HS players UA is the place to come. I don't care how good of a coach you are, if you don't deliver in a certain period, your name no longer matters. I believe he'll be the Zip coach for the next 3 seasons at a minimum, in part because of the mess he inherited. But the winning must start in 2015 or else the remaining years won't be much fun.You made my point. That is a sorry, sorry list. And I messed up...this was his 4th class!! Ouch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrship35 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 So when exactly did Bowden hire on and is the 2012 signing class truly his ? He was hired December 22 ......... Can we agree to give him a pass on 2012 ? Or did he really recruit them all ? Guys I'm just playing around here although it is great discussion ...... I appreciate all the passion and certainly can understand the frustration BUT I AINT NO KOOL AID DRINKER. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K92 Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 The hyperbole in this thread is making me nauseous. Bowden has said time and again that he wants to redshirt any and all freshmen he recruits if at all possible.At what point last season would you have suggested that we burn our redshirts in the hopes of turning things around? When we were 4-3 with 5 games to go? Even at 4-4, there was hope of winning the MAC East and going bowling. Would you burn redshirts with four games left and a shot at the division? The season didn't really go down the tubes until there were only three games remaining.How do you judge a recruiting class that hasn't stepped foot on the field?I am all for redshirting linemen to get them a year of strength and conditioning along with technique development. We need playmakers at offensive skill positions who can come in and play immediately. We don't have any. That's the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K92 Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I used NIU because they're always ranked 90 or worse going back many years, below so many teams that they are clearly better than. The rankings ARE meaningless. That's my point.So if you think that NIU's ranking is meaningless, then why are you using those same rankings as a reason to bitch about Akron's high school recruiting?I don't care how doormat P5 program rankings compare to NIU. NIU has done a great job by developing high middle ranked MAC classes. They have never been ranked hind tit in the MAC like we are. It doesn't get my rocks off that NIU beats bad Big10 teams with lower ranked recruiting classes. Means jack shit to me. What pisses me off is EMU UMass and Can't recruit better than us which is a joke. I haven't done the analysis yet on how those 3 joke programs compare to Purdue, however. Shame on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K92 Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Bottom line is this folks. For all you recruiting apologists, I say this. JZ posted the list. Please point out for me the names on the list that I am supposed to feel good about. I will cede you Brown, Hundley, Scott & Lane. I also hold out hope for Ericksen. Beyond those 5 who gives you warm and fuzzy feelings?Show me the error of my thinking. I eagerly await your responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipgrad01 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I used NIU because they're always ranked 90 or worse going back many years, below so many teams that they are clearly better than. The rankings ARE meaningless. That's my point.So if you think that NIU's ranking is meaningless, then why are you using those same rankings as a reason to bitch about Akron's high school recruiting?So what you are saying is that NIU has been able to hire great coaching staffs year after year regardless of talent? Either that or you are just saying that Bowden and his staff are simply much worse at coaching the non talented rosters. If that is the case we need to pay the NIU AD a consulting fee and get a new coaching staff immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrship35 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 And again I ask ....... What selling points does Bowden and staff have to recruit with against the other MAC schools ? ....... Great facilities, good education, winning tradition ( oops, cross that off for now) The part of building something special at UA is a nice talking point ..... I seriously have no clue why Can't state, western Michigan or any other MAC school recruits better than UA ........... But I honestly don't think it's a Bowden thing ........ Maybe it's facilities, maybe it's tradition, probably a lot has to do with relationships with the local programs I'm really not sure ...... Maybe they spent more time on transfers ......... Don't know Maybe I should have voted for "wait and see" but I took a leap of faith !!!! Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipgrad01 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 And again I ask ....... What selling points does Bowden and staff have to recruit with against the other MAC schools ? ....... Great facilities, good education, winning tradition ( oops, cross that off for now) The part of building something special at UA is a nice talking point ..... I seriously have no clue why Can't state, western Michigan or any other MAC school recruits better than UA ........... But I honestly don't think it's a Bowden thing ........ Maybe it's facilities, maybe it's tradition, probably a lot has to do with relationships with the local programs I'm really not sure ...... Maybe they spent more time on transfers ......... Don't know Maybe I should have voted for "wait and see" but I took a leap of faith !!!! LolBest facilities in the conference hands down. Best recruiting area in the conference in terms of local talent available. One of the largest population bases in the conference within 30 miles of campus. Playing in an uptempo and exciting offense. Playing in an aggressive and attacking defense. Selling them that we will do anything necessary (legally of course) to get this program at the top of the conference and into bowl games starting this year. Convince them that we will play anybody, anywhere and they they will be seen by national audiences and pro scouts. Convince them that we have more NFL contacts than any other program in the conference and one of our measures to success is getting our guys to the league. Bring in any former NFL players that the staff has coached to help cement the deal that this staff will be there for them from day 1 and that includes getting them to the NFL. Just for starters. I could ramble on forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 At what point last season would you have suggested that we burn our redshirts in the hopes of turning things around?As early enough in the season as possible when someone realized that they were better than a guy we had on the field, and would make the team better.I certainly wouldn't do it with 3 games left, but I think that you could evaluate the performance of the guy on the field vs. the freshman redshirt long before that point.Sorry. I'm just not a fan of "waiting til next year" when you have a guy who can make this team better right now. We need to win games. Now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K92 Posted February 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 What part of NIU smokes Akron in recruiting don't you understand? YOU are the one who wasn't even talking about how Northern compares with Akron but how they compare with lower level P5 schools. Don't put words in my mouth. I am pretty clear with what I am saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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