UA rebranding

[Dave in Green]

There's a lot we don't know yet. That's why there's so much speculation, which is a natural byproduct of having insufficient data to perform an accurate analysis. Under the circumstances it's not unexpected for many who care the most about UA to be concerned about potential negative effects. The best way to address these concerns is for Dr. Scarborough to release more details about the overall plan as soon as possible.

[LosAngelesZipFan]

First off, this is a really good discussion-- one which has to happen more publicly and openly.

To respond to some of LZips questions on what is sparking all this. Something has indeed changed over the past 20 years-- the inflation rate for college has outstripped basically every other sector including healthcare. States once provided most of a university's budget but that's now down to like 10%. This isn't just an Ohio thing; it's happening every place.

As Zach linked above, there has been hints of this happening for quite a while. It appears that Scarborough is looking for a way to respond to this, and I am glad he is at least attempting to be proactive. My concern is that just changing the name, let alone just adding a tag line, doesn't mean much of anything.

Again, this is not an issue unique to UA or Ohio-- every state is grappling with the costs of higher ed. It is a massive national issue because students are coming out with huge debt loads (total college debt passed credit card debt about 5 years ago), essentially crippling millennials who are not able to buy houses, new cars, etc., at the same rate as prior generations.

At the same time, universities have been on a building binge (obviously including UA), engaged in a ruinous arms race in sports, and greatly expanded highly paid administrative positions while shifting as much instruction work to part time faculty as possible. And all of this is happening when the idea of going some place to be educated-- the very notion of a university being a separate place in the world and a specific time of life-- is increasingly being replaced with digital learning (online programs and MOOCs) as well as the sense that learning will have to be an ongoing "lifestyle" since we will all have multiple careers because of the pace of job change, longevity, and lack of retirement savings.

If you are a university with a large and/or wealthy alumni base that is motivated to give buckets of money, you can thrive. Everyone else is in trouble.

UA has actually lost momentum over the past few years-- enrollment has decreased even while Can't and Ohio has increased. This is causing a troubling reduction in revenue, which is I think one of the main reasons the board picked a CFO to be president. We need a very clear-eyed assessment of where UA stands, which I think he is doing. There is no doubt there are pockets of strengths and real excellence at UA, but overall it is not held in high regard. Schools like UA, Can't, BG, etc.-- lightly regarded schools that probably do alot better job than their rankings, but that are heavily invested in burning large sums on money on Div 1 sports in an attempt to "stay in the game" vs the land-grant/BCS schools-- are the ones that are in serious trouble in the immediate future.

The path forward is very challenging-- declining enrollment leads to tuition increases to cover the shortfall leading to further decline in enrollment, meanwhile athletics expenditures increase as things like athlete supplemental payments happen, and the professionalization of college sports means that a place like Ohio has a single "pro" college team and then lots of minor league teams. If you're a kid in Ashtabula, do you root for and support the local minor league teams or for the pro team.

I think the re-branding is wholly inadequate to the challenge and in fact comes with a ton of potential baggage-- I can totally see how someone might see this as essentially equating to trade school, which is why I hope they are doing some serious research on this. The reality is that a poorly thought out rebrand could make matters worse and actually accelerate a downward spiral.

[LosAngelesZipFan]

From a marketing, brand and business perspective, we have to "think different" and be bold.

My oft-suggested combining of Akron and Can't is bold and will instantly create a moment of excitement and re-consideration in the NEO market. These two institutions coming together would rankle some, but for the casual observer, it would be a bold, unifying move that drives the future.

Maybe it just starts as a "confederation" of some sort-- the key sports teams stay separate or something (though I think this is an area where there would be tremendous cost savings gained by consolidating) until the next generation has fully acclimated. But the overall institutions operate as one. And with the size, scale, depth, breadth, and reach, it would a truly formidable institution with a powerful economic, population, and political base. The competitive set for this new U would not be other MAC schools-- it would be Ohio State and Michigan and other Big Ten or land grant schools.

To repeat from a prior post, NEO needs a major, comprehensive, world-class university. None of the current ones are that on their own, but together could become one. A combined UA and Can't would have 72,000 students, larger than OSU and second in the country only to Arizona State! In one instant, this new U would be in the national conversation. If you later added CSU and YSU (I would recommend establishing the core first so it was in our control), the new U would have around 105,000 students. If you did this and did it emphasizing innovation, inclusion, and quality outcomes (defined as getting through school with as low a debt as possible and getting a good job as well as driving regional economic vitality), it would be an amazing story.

[K92]

It would probably be more beneficial for both Can't and Akron to remain separate schools that decided to drop intercollegiate athletics.

[LosAngelesZipFan]

They would still be basically splitting the NEO market for students, media attention, and financial support. I remember when I was at UA in the late '80s I had a meeting w the guy that led Akron Tomorrow (or whatever it was called-- the group that focused on the Akron area's economic vitality). He got kind of chippy with me when I suggested that the group should really be putting all its oars in the water behind UA because it was the one unmovable economic asset that the city had. He rejected doing that because he felt Can't State was also a critical economic driver for the area. He was not a Can't alum or anything-- he was doing his job to use all the asset in the area to drive things forward as best as possible.

The point-- Akron and Can't are nearly indistinguishable as universities sitting in the same geography, splitting a non-growing pool of resources. Instead of all the energy and muscle of NEO behind one thing, it's diffused. If you are Goodyear or whomever, you end up splitting things, not doubling. Neither institution can really move ahead of the other and because the pool of resources is limited and static, the competition hasn't lead to both dramatically changing their trajectories.

If you took the best elements of each-- from professors to programs to football players-- you'd have a nice set of quality performers.

BTW, the other part of my argument is founded on the idea of driving the big idea. I would love for Scarborough to be the one to say "I hear ya' Kasich-- how about THIS!" The next economic downturn will mandate this magnitude of change because the state won't be able to afford the status quo. Make the hard decision now, proactively, and create something new and amazing...and that still has sports...

[skip-zip]

Not sure if anyone on this board would be happy with our new nickname.....The Golden Zips?

I have to admit, a 72,000 student, two-campus University, that can overpower anyone in the State or the Country does sound interesting. Assuming that this would also double our funding, double our fundraising, and double our athletic support, I wonder where we could be from an athletic competition standpoint?

I guess we'd get our new basketball arena, and an expansion to the Info.

[Dave in Green]

LosAngelesZipFan, I like that you're trying to think out of the box. Your background post above had some interesting thoughts. The only one I'd question is the one about you thinking the re-branding is wholly inadequate to the challenge. Since you don't know the full plan any more than any of the rest of us, I don't see how you can leap to that conclusion. That's why in my last post I said that Dr. Scarborough should release more details on the plan as soon as possible so that we can all make more informed assessments.

As for combining UA and Can't, the one thing I think that would surely accomplish is to double the number of protestors. Seriously, if thousands are already protesting changing UA's name to include a polytechnic reference, how do you think they'd react to including a Can't reference?

More to the point, do you have any examples of university mergers on this scale and what the results were? Certainly if there were examples of successful mergers benefiting all, that would be a powerful argument in favor of giving this concept more consideration. On the other hand if it's never been done and the expected results are purely speculative, the odds of NEO being the first to test the waters are pretty slim.

[urbanpreppie05]

A large University merger is a little unusual...but not unheard of these days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_Rio_Grande_Valley

[zen]

Not sure if anyone on this board would be happy with our new nickname.....The Golden Zips?

The Zipper Flashers

You K3nt see our rubbers

[ZippyRulz]

A further indication that we are "committed"

http://www.uakron.edu/im/news/national-center-for-choreography-to-launch-in-akron

UA President Scott L. Scarborough has committed the university to preparing students for the working world through career-focused, experiential learning.

#ZipsOnTheMove

[Dave in Green]

So how does this fit in with the theory that a polytechnic UA would ditch the arts?

The University of Akron and DANCECleveland announced today that they will launch a new center for choreography — only the second in the nation — where the country’s finest dance professionals will create new work. ...

... “The University of Akron is already known around the nation and the world for its excellence in areas including polymer science and engineering,” Scarborough said. “With the addition of the choreography center, we will become one of few institutions with a national presence in both the sciences and the arts.” ...

[ZippyRulz]

http://www.uakron.edu/im/news/ua-president-to-deliver-policy-speech-at-historic-venue

Contains links to live broadcast at 12:30p.

#ZipsOnTheMove

[Dave in Green]

A large University merger is a little unusual...but not unheard of these days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_Rio_Grande_Valley

Not quite the same. The University of Texas-Brownsville was originally founded as an extension of Pan-American University at Texas Southmost College. Later Pan-American University joined the University of Texas System and became UT-Pan-American. So the merger of UT-Brownsville and UT-Pan-American into a renamed University of Texas Rio Grande Valley simply continued the ties the two schools have had since UT-Brownsville was founded as an extension of Pan-American University.

[Spin]

As for combining UA and Can't, the one thing I think that would surely accomplish is to double the number of protestors. Seriously, if thousands are already protesting changing UA's name to include a polytechnic reference, how do you think they'd react to including a Can't reference?

I'd rather do that than "rebranding" as a technical institute.

[LosAngelesZipFan]

Agreed my POV is based on incomplete info at this point, but I don't think re-brand or re-name changes the key issues UA is facing.

And, yeah, I agree there would be a big debate and hopefully protests and all sorts of things by an announcement that UA and Can't are seriously exploring a merger-- it would be fantastic to see actual loyalty and passion demonstrated. I'd love to see all that unleashed, then the merger happen and eventually all that emotion x10 invested in the new U.

I don't off hand know of any other big mergers between schools like this, mostly because it flies in the face of all reason to have 2 big state u's so close together in the first place. Certainly it wouldn't pose the same issues that a larger corporate merger presents.

What about this idea, just for shits and grins... create a confederation between the two that keeps the identities separate but integrates all the administration and academic program. It basically runs like a University system but with 2 flagship campuses.

Sports teams remain separate except football-- the crazy cost, and lack of distinct success of either, justifies having just one.

[Dave in Green]

I'd rather do that than "rebranding" as a technical institute.

I agree. That's why it's important to differentiate between a technical institute and a polytechnic university. A technical institute would never dream of launching only the second center for choreography in the nation as Dr. Scarborough announced today. A polytechnic university can embrace both the sciences and the arts.

[Dave in Green]

... What about this idea, just for shits and grins... create a confederation between the two that keeps the identities separate but integrates all the administration and academic program. It basically runs like a University system but with 2 flagship campuses.

Sports teams remain separate except football-- the crazy cost, and lack of distinct success of either, justifies having just one.

As I recall we already discussed this before. I remember saying I would favor UA and Can't exploring sharing resources in non-competitive areas such as accounting, facilities management, security, etc. I'd leave sports out of early discussions as it's a highly emotional competitive area. The debate over which school would give up football could result in bloodshed.

[Balsy]

So how does this fit in with the theory that a polytechnic UA would ditch the arts?

It fits in because it makes press, and calms the public, while other arts programs continue to be downsized/eliminated entirely. Tenured faculty in those fields are also cut.

The debate over which school would give up football could result in bloodshed.

Its obvious who should give up football. Can't. Their stadium is a dump, UA's got Infocision. Infact, probably Akron would be in the position to keep most of the sports teams (basketball, football, soccer, W. Basketball) because they're more successful/have a better field or better location. We'd lose baseball?

[K92]

As I recall we already discussed this before. I remember saying I would favor UA and Can't exploring sharing resources in non-competitive areas such as accounting, facilities management, security, etc. I'd leave sports out of early discussions as it's a highly emotional competitive area. The debate over which school would give up football could result in bloodshed.

I disagree. Can't has about 13 fans that care about football.

[Dave in Green]

It fits in because it makes press, and calms the public ...

If we let our imaginations run wild we can clearly see conspiracies and coverups lurking all around us. But you have to admit it's pretty creative of Dr. Scarborough to announce the nation's second only center for choreography with the sole purpose of deceiving the public into believing he doesn't plan to eliminate the arts at UA and turn it into a purely technical institute.

[Blue & Gold]

I like it. Akron is a great science and engineering school but most people don't know it.

http://www.ohio.com/news/break-news/university-of-akron-rebrands-itself-as-ohio-s-polytechnic-university-1.592192#

http://www.uakron.edu

[Dave in Green]

Pretty straightforward.

... As for the term “polytechnic,” Scarborough said most people don’t know what it means.

The school’s first task might be educating people about the slogan and, perhaps, even changing the perception by some that it means a second-class education or refocusing on technical programs and polymer engineering.

Scarborough said critics shouldn’t be afraid.

“ ‘Polytechnic’ describes both our historical strengths and our path forward: career-focused, experiential, technology-infused, connected to business and industry, applying to both sciences and the arts,” he said. “And let me repeat those last three words: and ... the ... arts. Polytechnic applies as much to dance choreography as it does to polymer science and engineering and data science and IT.” ...

[skip-zip]

Dave, thanks for supplying that quote above.

Yes, for about the 5th time, I will state again that the biggest problem is the PERCEPTION that will go along with the change.

I see that Dr. Scarborough understands that it will be a challenge to educate people on the meaning of "Polytechnic". But, it will be a large and ongoing one. It won't just be some "initial phase" of the transition. I really think that having that potential "Ohio Tech" name flying around out there for several weeks created an even greater hurdle.

[ZachTheZip]

Why pick a term that most people, at best, don't understand or even misunderstand when your primary objective is to create brand recognition for the masses?

[K92]

If Polytechnic is a word that most people don't know the meaning of, why in Hell would you want to use it to describe UA? This gets dumber by the minute.

Edit: Just saw that I restated what Zach already said. Sorry. I just started typing after I read the quote Dave posted by Scarborough and went outside for some fresh air before my head exploded. Next time I will try to read the entire thread first. If, in the coming weeks, you read a newspaper column about a rural Ashland County man dying of spontaneous cranial combustion, you will know I was unsuccessful.