Grad transfer impact

[wadszip]

I brought up this topic in the CSU thread, but didn't want to bog that down after the game. But wanted to reopen the general conversation. And I'm not against the rule. Different sport, but Akron has been one of the biggest users of the rule in football (though I'd bet the rule helps mid majors in football a lot more than it will help mid majors in basketball).

Anyway, for basketball, I just did a quick Google search of "top grad transfers college basketball". Looks like bleacher report made a list back in May.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2451006-ranking-the-best-graduate-transfers-for-the-2015-16-ncaa-basketball-season

Here is the breakdown, and how the move ranks simply based on conference prestige:

20. Max Bielfeldt: Michigan to Indiana ... Lateral move.

19. Derrick Gordon: UMass to Seton Hall. Slight step up.

18. Sterling Smith: Coppin State to Pitt ... Mid Major raid.

17. Mark Tollefson: San Francisco to Arizona... Mid Major raid.

16. Tyler Harris: Providence to auburn ... Lateral move.

15. Jermaine Ruttley: Florida A&M to Arkansas Little Rock ... I guess step up, but Mid Major to MM.

14. Eli Carter: Florida to Boston College ... Lateral move

13. Trey Lewis: Cleveland State to Louisville ... Mid Major raid.

12. Durand Johnson: Pitt to St. John's ... Lateral move.

11. Like Nwamu: Mercer to UNLV ... Obviously a step up and UNLV and the MWC conference is good enough to count this in the Mid Major raid category.

10. Ricky Tarrant: Alabama to Memphis ... Maybe step down by conference names, but more lateral than anything.

9. Anton Grady: Cleveland State to Wichita State... Step up,but a Mid Major raiding another. Though, WSU is pretty much a high major now as a program.

8. Rafael Maia: Brown to Pitt... Mid Major raid.

7. Shonn Miller: Cornell to UConn ... Mid Major raid.

6. Adam Smith: Virginia Tech to Georgia Tech ... Lateral move (a future engineer?).

5. Dylan Ennis (remember him): Villanova to Oregon... Lateral move.

4. Rasheed Sulaimon: Duke to Maryland... Lateral move.

3. Mike Thorns: Charlotte to Illinois... Mid Major raid.

2. Damion Lee: Drexel to Louisville.... Mid Major raid.

1. Sterling Gibbs: Seton Hall to UConn... Lateral move.

Looking at this, its a pretty mixed bag. Yeah, Mid Majors took it the hardest (I'd classify 9 of 20 as Mid Major raids), but Mid Majors make up half the teams.

Then there was the one low major to mid major move.

The other 10 appear to be lateral just based on league prestige.

So it seems that Cleveland State was just unlucky to be on the losing two of two of the top 14 grad transfers. It doesn't seem like a trend that will affect most mid majors, especially the good ones, like Akron.

With that said (and maybe why I thought it was more detrimental to mid majors), three of the top 14 are Cleveland HS kids. Trey Lewis (who actually started off at Penn State), Anton Grady and Shonn Miller. If anybody has read what I've posted over the years, I'm leading the charge that Cleveland is among the top 10 areas for HS basketball recruits in the country. But a lot of kids go under looked. That's changing as the area has something like 9 kids going to high majors just in the 16 class alone. But you could still see high majors continue to poke around at the kids they have missed on in this area.

Plus, expanding it to Cleveland-Akron-Canton, CJ McCollum is also still fresh on coaches minds. Everybody, including KD, missed on him. Luckily, that miss for Akron has changed KD's philosophy a bit. He has said he won't let that situation happen again ... And probably why he is two scholarships over the limit. And two of the four players in this class are Cleveland kids... Eubanks and Jordan Davis (started at Garfield Heights before going to Timken/McKinley in Canton ... which is also McCollum's hometown).

BTW, McCollum is averaging 22-4-3 this year for the Trail Blazers. It's early, but saw a graphic the other day that he and Damian Lillard were the leading points scoring backcourt in the NBA. FWIW, Lillard (Weber State) was also a mid major draftee.

[zippyman23]

Here is the breakdown, and how the move ranks simply based on conference prestige:

20. Max Bielfeldt: Michigan to Indiana ... Lateral move.

19. Derrick Gordon: UMass to Seton Hall. Slight step up. (Western Kentucky)

18. Sterling Smith: Coppin State to Pitt ... Mid Major raid.

17. Mark Tollefson: San Francisco to Arizona... Mid Major raid.

16. Tyler Harris: Providence to auburn ... Lateral move. (NC State)

15. Jermaine Ruttley: Florida A&M to Arkansas Little Rock ... I guess step up, but Mid Major to MM. (Kaskaskia CC)

14. Eli Carter: Florida to Boston College ... Lateral move (Rutgers)

13. Trey Lewis: Cleveland State to Louisville ... Mid Major raid. (Penn State)

12. Durand Johnson: Pitt to St. John's ... Lateral move.

11. Like Nwamu: Mercer to UNLV ... Obviously a step up and UNLV and the MWC conference is good enough to count this in the Mid Major raid category. (Cleveland State)

10. Ricky Tarrant: Alabama to Memphis ... Maybe step down by conference names, but more lateral than anything. (Tulane)

9. Anton Grady: Cleveland State to Wichita State... Step up,but a Mid Major raiding another. Though, WSU is pretty much a high major now as a program.

8. Rafael Maia: Brown to Pitt... Mid Major raid.

7. Shonn Miller: Cornell to UConn ... Mid Major raid.

6. Adam Smith: Virginia Tech to Georgia Tech ... Lateral move (a future engineer?).(UNC Wilmington)

5. Dylan Ennis (remember him): Villanova to Oregon... Lateral move. (Rice)

4. Rasheed Sulaimon: Duke to Maryland... Lateral move.

3. Mike Thorns: Charlotte to Illinois... Mid Major raid.

2. Damion Lee: Drexel to Louisville.... Mid Major raid.

1. Sterling Gibbs: Seton Hall to UConn... Lateral move. (Texas)

Just to add some more to to conversation.

10 of 20 started there college careers at third school. (Bold)

2 were Ivy League players (Miller, Maia) which doesn't allow scholarships to grad students.

IMO, the biggest issue with the rule is the number of players who are transferring twice in there careers.

[Z.I.P.]

Plus, expanding it to Cleveland-Akron-Canton, CJ McCollum is also still fresh on coaches minds. Everybody, including KD, missed on him. Luckily, that miss for Akron has changed KD's philosophy a bit. He has said he won't let that situation happen again ... And probably why he is two scholarships over the limit. And two of the four players in this class are Cleveland kids... Eubanks and Jordan Davis (started at Garfield Heights before going to Timken/McKinley in Canton ... which is also McCollum's hometown).

BTW, McCollum is averaging 22-4-3 this year for the Trail Blazers. It's early, but saw a graphic the other day that he and Damian Lillard were the leading points scoring backcourt in the NBA. FWIW, Lillard (Weber State) was also a mid major draftee.

Thanks Wadszip, that's a VERY interesting story on McCollum (whom I have to admit, I was not aware of being from Canton). Similar indeed to Damian Lillard, who came from Oakland, and stated his disappointment at being dissed by his school-of-choice, Cal-Berkeley. I love Lillard, and now will be following McCollum. Blazers are my #2 NBA team now, having spent some time in PDX.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Z.I.P.

[wadszip]

Just to add some more to to conversation.

10 of 20 started there college careers at third school. (Bold)

2 were Ivy League players (Miller, Maia) which doesn't allow scholarships to grad students.

IMO, the biggest issue with the rule is the number of players who are transferring twice in there careers.

Great add. It seems like this rule really benefits guys who, for whatever reason, can't stay at a school for more than a couple years.

See Dylan Ennis. He went to what, three different high schools. Was committed to Akron. Then went to Rice, then Villanova and now Oregon. That guy can't stay put anywhere. I'll

[wadszip]

Thanks Wadszip, that's a VERY interesting story on McCollum (whom I have to admit, I was not aware of being from Canton). Similar indeed to Damian Lillard, who came from Oakland, and stated his disappointment at being dissed by his school-of-choice, Cal-Berkeley. I love Lillard, and now will be following McCollum. Blazers are my #2 NBA team now, having spent some time in PDX.

I'm sure this has been rehashed on here, but McCollum wanted to go to Akron, but the Zips only had one open scholarship, which went to Zeke Marshall. That was back when KD refused to go over the scholarship limit. KD has publicly admitted not letting a player like McCollum in was a mistake he wouldn't repeat. (Hence why Akron is two scholarship players over the limit right now for 2016).

Btw, here is a hilarious photo of McCollum in the state tournament his freshman or sophomore year in HS. The big guy behind him is Kosta Koufos (now with the Sacramento Kings).

http://i.imgur.com/PPAQaWI.jpg

[phil]

I do not know if this is true but I was told that Larry Nance Jr., from Revere and now of the LA Lakers also wanted to be a Zip but that KD went with Harney and Tree as scholarship players. If this is true I do not blame KD because Tree and Harney were probably the better prospects coming out of high school.

How does it work if you have more scholarship players that scholarships. Does KD have the option of not renewing a scholarship if nobody voluntarily leaves the program?

[morris buttermaker]

You can always not renew a scholarship - they are year to year

Edited November 17, 2015 by morris buttermaker

[LZIp]

You can always not renew a scholarship - they are year to year

Sounds like a bad way to run a program.

[Sportsjunkie330]

Sounds like a bad way to run a program.

Yes very bad way to run a program, which is why nobody operates that way.

I think Morris is answering the question that was asked - "Does KD have the option of not renewing a scholarship..." - And the answer is, all scholarships are year to year.

[ZIPCODE]

Could be one or two academic non qualifiers in the 2016 class who will have to sit out next year and pay their own way.

[morris buttermaker]

Just to add some more to to conversation.

2 were Ivy League players (Miller, Maia) which doesn't allow scholarships to grad students.

The IVY lg doesn't allow grad students to participate in sports... nothing to do with scholarships or grants