WOW!

[GP1]

Yes, you read it correct. We were out playerED.I have a friend who is a coach at another MAC school and he once told me, "GP1, you don't win with X's and O's, you win with Jimmies and Joes". Can't has better Jimmies and Joes than we do. Period. If we played Can't ten times this season, we would have trouble winning two of the games. I wish I could say different.People are going to come into this board and talk about play selection and penalties and everything under the sun. None of that matters. We got out asses kicked by a team that was much more athletic than we were. Not only were they more athletic, they were bigger than us also. I love to say this so I'll say it again. I don't care what your wives and girlfriends tell you, size matters. They were bigger, they were faster, they were quicker and they execute.I can't believe I'm about to say this......here it goes..........just a second.............trying to get up the energy...........................almost ready................getting extra energy to my fingers..............I think I can do it..............I'm ready, Can't is going to the MACC and a bowl game this season.

[Buckzip]

You are correct. I would discuss recruiting, but I will get in trouble for it.We were outcoached too, but we were out playered.

[fear the brown roo]

can't argue any of that. out-hearted too. top to bottom out classed, out played, out coached, out everthing.

[Z-Pouch]

Yes, you read it correct.  We were out playerED.None of that matters.  We got out asses kicked by a team that was much more athletic than we were.  Not only were they more athletic, they were bigger than us also.

I think you are absolutely WRONG. Just got back from the game and I would hardly say that Can't is bigger and faster then Akron based off the game today. GP1 - I'm dissappointed in you - that's what I would expect from someone who doesn't know much about football - That's such an easy answer to this game. Now, tell me the Zips got outplayed and I willll agree with you. Tell me the Zips didn't show up and have any intensity - I'll agree with you. Tell me that all the breaks went with Can't today and I'll agree. When Can't threw up a prayer of a pass, it was answered. When they needed a conversion on 3rd down, somehow it was converted, it was just their day and they gave it to us good. But more talented -- I really dont think you can say that off of this one game. That is ridiculous. We were outplayed and outcoached - Can't deserved it today. But more talented after just one day - Cmon GP1, the sky is not falling...............and we still out recruited them and the program is on the right track.

[Z-Pouch]

Can't ten times this season, we would have trouble winning two of the games. I wish I could say different.

The sky is falling , the sky is falling, the sky is falling....Please......This is stupid comment. These teams are more even matched then anyone here expected but to say Can't would dominate a series. Have another.

[fear the brown roo]

i'm not saying the sky is falling but i saw nothing today to make me think that k e n t wouldn't dominate a series with us. this was a flat out ass kicking. now it's time to see if we respond like we did after the army game last year or if we shrivel up and die. i don't see quit in the team, even when getting their asses handed to them.

[ZipAnalyst]

This is GP!'s way of making excuses for Brookhart. The buck stops with Brookhart. These are his players for the most part. If they are not good enough - who brought them to Akron? If they are good enough, who didn't properly prepare them?Obviously GP1 sees himself as a confidant of coaches ("a friend who is a coach at another MAC school"). In order to preserve that status he takes on the role of being an apologist. Bottom line is that Brookhart has to become a much better coach in all its aspects.GP1 needs to go to the forum "The good news is ..." and defend his coach."People are going to come into this board and talk about play selection and penalties and everything under the sun. (so says GP1). What are we going to talk about? We are going to talk about the coach who repeatedly tells us that Akron is a good team. Brookhart himself says he has the players to compete with Can't, North Carolina State, and anyone else on the schedule.On September 30th the Zips did not demonstrate being a well-coached team in their focus, execution and game situation awareness. But then there is always the rest of the schedule for Brookhart to show improvement.Maybe next year Brookhart can prove he is a good coach. This year needs to be devoted to improvement. At this point it will be a challenge for Akron to have a winning record as it was last year. Remember, they backed in to the MAC championship game and got lucky on the last play of the game.

[fear the brown roo]

Bottom line is that Brookhart has to become a much better coach in all its aspects.On September 30th the Zips did not demonstrate being a well-coached team in their focus, execution and game situation awareness. But then there is always the rest of the schedule for Brookhart to show improvement.

i can't argue that either. it was a total loss by both the staff and players. a true team effort.

[Buckzip]

Very true statements

[InTheZone]

GP1,Wow man. From one former player to another I'm stunned to hear you say that, if you watched the same game as me. The game plan for that game defensively was AWFUL. I'm going to go more in depth on some of the X's and O's of that when I get a chance to watch the tv copy off my DVR, but let's just say sitting in the stands I was stunned not only by what we came out trying to do defensively but the complete lack of adjustments made at halftime. I don't want to hammer Jim Flemming after the way the defense played the first four games, but I'm not sure what the guy was sipping on while putting that game plan together this week. Offensively, a complete lack of discipline and execution is what killed us, and I think you gotta chalk that up to coaching as well.Watching that game yesterday, we are still without a doubt in my mind the most talented team in the MAC, especially on defense. That embarrassment of a game does not rest with a group of players playing their asses off to execute a game plan that set them up for failure from the start. It sits squarely on a group of coaches that it looks like to me have become a little too smug and maybe starting to think their ready to mark their resumes and move on up the ladder.

[RACER]

no way Can't has more talent.we lost because our guys thought they could just show up and Can't would lay down.we were also out coached this game. harvey is one the best wr i have seen in the mac period.i did think kiki played a decent game to. why does the staff continue to let crouch out there by himself in pass blocking. nothing against crouch.how hard is it to help with the back ,or te to help protect lukes back side.instead they did nothing and let luke get pounded a few times. either that or move kemme over there. we need a lt for the next few years. also it would be nice to get some of the other qb some pt next week. im not saying bench luke,but maybe let these guys qb's get a series or two. we need to get our qb's some experince for next year.we also need to rotate some more ol for next year.

[Buckzip]

Our guys read a little too mcuh of their own press clippings. Which areound Akron is a little hard to do. They obviously thought they were better than they actually are.

[ZipAnalyst]

game plan that set them up for failure from the start. It sits squarely on a group of coaches

I'm going to go more in depth on some of the X's and O's of that when I get a chance to watch the tv copy off my DVR

InTheZone I am looking forward to your analysis!As a former player what you have to say takes on an aire of credibility that those who have not played the game can attain. But our perspective deserves attention because most fans have not played the game.Your analysis wiill provide us non former players with more markers with which to evaluate what we are seeing.Thanks in advance for your effort.

[zipsbandman]

It sits squarely on a group of coaches that it looks like to me have become a little too smug and maybe starting to think their ready to mark their resumes and move on up the ladder.

Hmmm, you may be on to something. Perhaps JD is hearing the buzz and the prospects of moving up the coaching ladder may be giving our staff big heads. Clearly, we went in there thinking we would roll. Well, it turns out they all just got civilized.

[GP1]

GP1,Wow man. From one former player to another I'm stunned to hear you say that, if you watched the same game as me. The game plan for that game defensively was AWFUL. I'm going to go more in depth on some of the X's and O's of that when I get a chance to watch the tv copy off my DVR, but let's just say sitting in the stands I was stunned not only by what we came out trying to do defensively but the complete lack of adjustments made at halftime. I don't want to hammer Jim Flemming after the way the defense played the first four games, but I'm not sure what the guy was sipping on while putting that game plan together this week. Offensively, a complete lack of discipline and execution is what killed us, and I think you gotta chalk that up to coaching as well.Watching that game yesterday, we are still without a doubt in my mind the most talented team in the MAC, especially on defense. That embarrassment of a game does not rest with a group of players playing their asses off to execute a game plan that set them up for failure from the start. It sits squarely on a group of coaches that it looks like to me have become a little too smug and maybe starting to think their ready to mark their resumes and move on up the ladder.

What you are going to find in your analysis is the following.One, flat footed players on defense who were not quick enough to make open field tackles.Two, quick players on Can't's defense who made open field tackles, one after another, against DK and anyone else who came into contact with them.Three, LBs too slow to cover more athletic players.Four, Can't has guys who can catch passes.......almost all of the time. We have guys who catch some of the time. Pass catching is an athletic skill.Five, you are going to see a very big and athletic Can't O-Line create lanes for runners against a smaller D-Line and smaller defense.Six, tall receivers who out athleted our smaller DBs. The same thing happened in the Motor City Bowl last year.Seven, missed tackles because we were too slow to be in position to make the tackles. When we were in position, they were quicker than us and got around the tackle.Eight, does anyone think our offensive line was more athletic than Can't's defensive line?There is more, but I think I have made my point.Look, there is no question we were completely out everythinged on Saturday. If you want to blame coaching, that's fine too......God knows we were out everythinged and coaches are an easy target when you don't know what else to say. Talent was our biggest problem against Can't........this year. If you want throw in everything except the comparative performance of the two bands, that's fine too. Beatings like the one we took Saturday don't just happen, a lot goes into them.One thing about playing the games is you get a chance to find out who is good and who is not good. Basically, you get to find out who the contenders and who the pretenders are. Can't may be good this year......Hell, they are in perfect positioin to win the MAC East and go to a bowl as they are undefeated in the MAC East with wins against us, BGSU and Miami. Put yourself in their position. Isn't this exactly where you would want to be? I don't think the trend will continue past this year, but this year they have all they players to be a good team and contend for the championship this season.Over the next couple of years, I'll take our young talent and JD over Can't any day of the week. Satuday was not our day though.As far as the sky falling, it is falling, but it hasn't fallen. Akron can not afford to lose another MAC game and we need a lot of help. We lost three MAC games last year and made the MACC. With the wins Can't has, Akron can not afford to lose another MAC game. That means winning on the road against Toledo and OU........two difficult places to win. It also means beating Western the last game of the year when both teams may be playing for something. Can it be done? Of course.The other side is, who is going to beat Can't three times this year to open the door for us if we win out. They have OU at home, Ball State, Buffalo, Eastern Michigan, Temple and someone else I can't think of right now. We may be able to get a group of 22 guys from ZipsNation to beat Ball State, Temple and Eastern. History tells us that Can't is more than capable of losing six in a row. Logic tells us that was a pretty good team that beat us Saturday and it is unlikely to lose many more.Someone else also brought up making a bowl. That is also a possibility. To do so, this week against Cincinnati is a must win. Seven wins gets us a chance of making a bowl. Eight wins could put us in a position to be an at large bid over other MAC schools. I'm sure the Motor City Bowl wouldn't mind having us back.

[Zips Win!]

WOW is correct! After that, I can't say that I agree with much. (of GP1's comments)You are truly the Bill Walton of posting.....You have the unique ability to make a point that will defend any and all sides of a discussion.....Look, your comment that "We were out playerED" is correct...to a certain extent. Can't did have ONE better player and he happened to play quarterback. The notion that they have better players up and down the roster is simply untrue. Combine this fact with as ITZ says, "an AWFUL defensive game plan" made for a horrendous day.The defensive game plan and performance reminded me of what I watched under Owens. At no point in the game did we have any idea what Can't was doing on offense. The handful of time we did get good pressure, Edelman side-stepped the tackler and made a play. We were out of position on virtually every play..Did the coaches even watch any game film of Edelman? My take on your eight points are as follows:1. Sure we were flat-footed on D.....Edelman made us miss..with both his running and passing....much like CMU's qb did.2. Can't's quick defensive players? Really? I saw KD sit down on the carpet on 3rd and 1....he could have run for ten yards. Were our heads in the game?3. LB's were too slow...... to catch Edelman...4. Can't's guys did catch the ball .....it helps to have perfectly thrown balls by Edelman.5. Did Can't's line really create lanes for Can't's runners or do you mean for Edelman? He was their best runner!6. Tall receivers for sure......meaningless, unless the ball was placed properly as Edelman did.7. There were missed tackles....On Edelman. Doesn't help that Flemming had no idea were to place the defenders.8. You got me on this one.....Our line has been dissappointing...As any really good offensive football team will show, it does all start up front. This line really never gives the offense much of a chance to get into rhythm. It will continue to be a long year unless the line gives DK a chance keep defenses honest and Luke is given time to set and throw. This was not the case on Saturday. Looks like even the most average d-lines will give our o-line fits.....Edelman was the difference maker on Saturday. He made great plays. At the end of the day, it does take "Jimmy and Joes". Can't had ONE......ours did not show up.

[ZipAnalyst]

coaches are an easy target when you don't know what else to say

Hubris and arrogance are terms that define GP1. The above quote is a pre-emptive strike at anyone who would critique the coaches. I suspect that GP1 is more than an ex-player. I think he has his hand a coaching at some level and is supersensitive to any who dare criticize a coach.Zips Win! shows how any one of us who holds Brookhart and the coaching staff primarily responsible for the Can't State debacle can deal with the specifics and trace them back to Brookhart et al.The initial posting by GP1 was designed to cut off posters who might want to deal in the details of the game as a way to assess performance (players and coaches) Now - anyone who goes to where the buck stops (Brookhart & Associates) is doing so because they can't proive detail. GP1 demonstrates whipsawing of the first order and deserves the title Sir Sophister.GP1 has the potential to be a productive contributor to our discussion BUT NOT IF he continues his specious ways.

[bigzipguy]

Can't does not have better players that the Zips!! You do not have a team like Can't, who last year was one of the worst teams in 1-a football, starting like this, five games into the season.Can't's Q.B. did in fact crush us!!!I am not saying that GP1 makes no good points, but I beleive he is wrong about his comparison of the talent level of the two teams

[GP1]

WOW is correct! After that, I can't say that I agree with much. (of GP1's comments)You are truly the Bill Walton of posting.....You have the unique ability to make a point that will defend any and all sides of a discussion.....Look, your comment that "We were out playerED" is correct...to a certain extent. Can't did have ONE better player and he happened to play quarterback. The notion that they have better players up and down the roster is simply untrue. Combine this fact with as ITZ says, "an AWFUL defensive game plan" made for a horrendous day.The defensive game plan and performance reminded me of what I watched under Owens. At no point in the game did we have any idea what Can't was doing on offense. The handful of time we did get good pressure, Edelman side-stepped the tackler and made a play. We were out of position on virtually every play..Did the coaches even watch any game film of Edelman? My take on your eight points are as follows:1. Sure we were flat-footed on D.....Edelman made us miss..with both his running and passing....much like CMU's qb did.2. Can't's quick defensive players? Really? I saw KD sit down on the carpet on 3rd and 1....he could have run for ten yards. Were our heads in the game?3. LB's were too slow...... to catch Edelman...4. Can't's guys did catch the ball .....it helps to have perfectly thrown balls by Edelman.5. Did Can't's line really create lanes for Can't's runners or do you mean for Edelman? He was their best runner!6. Tall receivers for sure......meaningless, unless the ball was placed properly as Edelman did.7. There were missed tackles....On Edelman. Doesn't help that Flemming had no idea were to place the defenders.8. You got me on this one.....Our line has been dissappointing...As any really good offensive football team will show, it does all start up front. This line really never gives the offense much of a chance to get into rhythm. It will continue to be a long year unless the line gives DK a chance keep defenses honest and Luke is given time to set and throw. This was not the case on Saturday. Looks like even the most average d-lines will give our o-line fits.....Edelman was the difference maker on Saturday. He made great plays. At the end of the day, it does take "Jimmy and Joes". Can't had ONE......ours did not show up.

http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/spor...es/15653655.htmGood post Zips Win!. It was cogent, well thought out, clearly communicated, contained all the points you wanted to make and just plain wrong.I have posted the link to the statistics for the game. Everyone can have a look at them and decide.The bottom line is and the evidence shows that many on Can't's team participated in their win, not just Edelman. Their scoring was balanced between running and passing. Their offense was a good balance between all players. When we were trying to get first downs on third and long, they were frequently operating from third and short, or even better, second and short.If you want to say the players were out of position, what position were they supposed to be in? Do you have some sort of insight into the game plan none of us know about? Were you privy to sideline conversations? How do you know that they didn't practice all week against the exact plays that beat us Saturday? Is the Can't State offense the same mystery offense that a lot of teams are running now and everyone has had a chance to play against?All any of us really know when we go to a game is what we see. At the end of the day, what I saw was a Can't team that was big, fast and quick......or at least one that was bigger, faster and quicker than ours (this year). Believe me, I don't like typing it any more than you like reading it, but to describe it any other way is just being intellectually dishonest. Edelman alone does not make that team 22 points better than us. Much more than one player goes into that level of ass kicking. Even a perfectly thrown pass must be caught. Open field tackles must be made. Receivers must be covered. We didn't do much of that Saturday. There are only 11 players on the field, not 100. I at least expect the players to keep track of the guy with the ball and the five other guys who could potentially get the ball. Christ, we play with five freaking DBs (which I hate, but that is another post)......only five guys are eligible to get the ball other than the QB. It really isn't splitting the atom. If the Zips are as equally as talented as Can't, they didn't show it Saturday. The games are the time to go out and show your talent, not on recruiting reports or any other type of paper. Saturday is deal closing day and we didn't close.There are no secrets during the week. Both teams basically know what the other team is trying to do on offense and defense. It is a matter of players executing the game plan. Hell, if you had good enough players, you could run the QB sneak every play and win.

[GP1]

Zips Win! shows how any one of us who holds Brookhart and the coaching staff primarily responsible for the Can't State debacle can deal with the specifics and trace them back to Brookhart et al.

Are you sure that all of you aren't just dancing around the calf?

[Zips Win!]

Edelman alone does not make that team 22 points better than us.

He did on Saturday!

[GP1]

Edelman alone does not make that team 22 points better than us.

He did on Saturday!

You're as wrong about this as you are about the Troy Aikman discussion.

[Zips Win!]

You're as wrong about this as you are about the Troy Aikman discussion.

Huh! In the Aikman discussion, you give him (the QB) much (if not most) of the credit for the teams success...Now after watching a superb performance by Edelman and I want to give him (the QB) the credit, you disagree.The reason Can't goes from 1 win to already three is primarily because he ie quarterbacking and Machen (sp?) is watching...On Saturday, his pinpoint "jumpball" passing, elusiveness on all types of runs--options, called qb runs as well as scrambles enabled Can't to spread the field and open-up their offense...something Machen or anyone else on their roster couldn't do. He is the difference and we couldn't stop him.

[GP1]

You're as wrong about this as you are about the Troy Aikman discussion.

Huh! In the Aikman discussion, you give him (the QB) much (if not most) of the credit for the teams success...Now after watching a superb performance by Edelman and I want to give him (the QB) the credit, you disagree.The reason Can't goes from 1 win to already three is primarily because he ie quarterbacking and Machen (sp?) is watching...On Saturday, his pinpoint "jumpball" passing, elusiveness on all types of runs--options, called qb runs as well as scrambles enabled Can't to spread the field and open-up their offense...something Machen or anyone else on their roster couldn't do. He is the difference and we couldn't stop him.

This is just simply untrue. I never told you that Aikman didn't have a great cast around him. I told you that Aikman was one of the best QBs in history (not exactly sticking my neck out), even better than most in the Hall of Fame (sticking my neck out).Back to the Zips.You are giving all of the credit to Edelman. It doesn't take a great QB to throw a jumpball pass to a guy.....it takes a great athlete to catch the ball. I reject out of hand that Edelman alone was the difference. He is a glorified running back in an option type offense. Looking at the statistics in the link I post above, too many guys contributed to the offense for Can't on Saturday for me to sit here and say that one single guy won the game for them.I stand by my premise that Can't had more athletic players than we did Saturday. 22 points is way too much for just one player to create that big of a spread. I'm not willing to dance around the calf on this one.

[bigzipguy]

Yes, it takes more than one player to beat another team. But I do beleive that QB wasthe major difference.What is being lost in this particular thread is the collapse of our Offence!!