Super Bowl Coach critiques Frye

[Dr Z]

Cowher's critiqueCowher made a point to talk with Cleveland quarterback Charlie Frye after the game and his words made an impression."He told me, 'You've made great strides since the last time we played,' " Frye said. "He said, 'You look like a totally different quarterback. Keep working hard, you're going to be a great player.'"It means a lot to me coming from him, a Super Bowl coach. He's a defensive-minded coach. To hear him say that, it makes you feel as good as you can after losing to the Steelers."source--------------------I was at the game yesterday. I thought Frye played well. He managed the game well.I noticed he looked down field many times yesterday and decided to hit his check down underneath.Looks like he was throwing a nice ball for the weather conditions. A must in NE Ohio.Edwards does his job at the end of the game and everybody would have been singing the praises of Charlie today.I'm no super bowl coach, but those are my humble opinions.Poor Charlie, will he ever beat Ben

[GP1]

Running the ball with a lead in the fourth quarter is a tried and true method of winning NFL games, and the Browns lost the game yesterday when they couldn't run the ball late. One thing about the Steelers during the Cowher years is that they can be beat, but they are not going to allow a team to run the ball on them when the other team has the ball in the fourth quarter with a lead. They did the same thing to Cleveland a few years ago in the playoffs. A couple of first downs late would have won the game for Cleveland and it should have never come down to a last second pass. It reminded me of the Can't vs. Akron game (The Divine Intervention Game) in 2003 when we couldn't get a first down in the final 6:30 to salt away a 14 point lead.In the end, that was a game of two bad teams going at it yesterday. The fourth quarter was exciting, but the rest was like watching a bad color paint dry.

[sgm405]

Honestly, I think it's cool that Cowher said that to Frye, but...He still sucks. I'm sorry, if he wasn't from Akron everyone would be saying the same thing. He's a backup in the NFL (a good one), but he will not be a starter.

[Wally B]

Honestly, I think it's cool that Cowher said that to Frye, but...He still sucks.  I'm sorry, if he wasn't from Akron everyone would be saying the same thing.  He's a backup in the NFL (a good one), but he will not be a starter.

I disagree.Frye is only as good as he is running for his life in Cleveland, because he was good at running for his life in Akron. First, Cleveland needs a good offensive line. Second, Charlie has done a good job of adjusting to the speed of the NFL.It always takes time to devlop a quarterback in the nfl, especially w/ a weak line. Show me rookie phenom, Rothle.., Brady; and i'll show you a quarterback surrounded by a good line and teammates that are willing to do the small stuff to make things happen. Look back in time...... Kosars diminshing skill couild be directly related to a weaker offensive line and injuries to his supporting cast. Frye is a good quarterback in the mold of Brady and Rothle... There is a reason the Pats and Steals are good year in year out. They don't rely on one overpaid superstar, who tends to do more harm than good (81?). Charlie has progressed nicely. Benching him for a rookie, another unproven Quarterback, or someone unfamiliar w/ the system would be foolish.

[GoZips88]

I'm in Wally B's court - give Charlie an o-line that gives him a little more time and a running game that the defense has to respect and he'll be fine. Pretty easy for the defense when they can pretty much blow off the run game and key on the pass, including blitzing. The time Worthlessburger had in the pocket in the 4th quarter yesterday was obscene ...

[Kangaroo Craig]

Honestly, I think it's cool that Cowher said that to Frye, but...He still sucks.  I'm sorry, if he wasn't from Akron everyone would be saying the same thing.  He's a backup in the NFL (a good one), but he will not be a starter.

I disagree.Frye is only as good as he is running for his life in Cleveland, because he was good at running for his life in Akron. First, Cleveland needs a good offensive line. Second, Charlie has done a good job of adjusting to the speed of the NFL.It always takes time to devlop a quarterback in the nfl, especially w/ a weak line. Show me rookie phenom, Rothle.., Brady; and i'll show you a quarterback surrounded by a good line and teammates that are willing to do the small stuff to make things happen. Look back in time...... Kosars diminshing skill couild be directly related to a weaker offensive line and injuries to his supporting cast. Frye is a good quarterback in the mold of Brady and Rothle... There is a reason the Pats and Steals are good year in year out. They don't rely on one overpaid superstar, who tends to do more harm than good (81?). Charlie has progressed nicely. Benching him for a rookie, another unproven Quarterback, or someone unfamiliar w/ the system would be foolish.

Its good to see a post from someone who gets it, someone who understands the game. Football games are won and lost at the line of scrimmage. Period. Your right. Take anyone of the great quarterbacks in the league and put them behind Cleveland's line and they will struggle. Roethlisberger had a shitty game yesterday. As matter of fact, he's had a few of those this year. All of this is behind a Steeler line that is far superior to the Browns. Charlie Frye would be the All Pro that Big Ben is if he played for the Steelers. Put Ben on the Browns and he sucks!

[johnnyzip84]

I agree with the last three posts completely. I'd also add that if you switched Charlie and Ben in college, Charlie would have won at least two of the three head to head meetings (not sure is Charlie could have pulled off the 75 yard Hail Mary or not ) Hmmm...would Miami have called the play "Big Charlie" in that event?

[Valpo Zip]

Charlie is the man ! I remember crennel in the preseason saying that Charlie's biggest challenge is to be in one piece at the end of the season... he's doing a good job on that.Moreover, a QB does more than throwing balls, if you ever played football, you would know that you need someone who earns the respect of the team and gets them around him... Charlie did that. Check the player's comments.Charlie is probably playing behind the worst OL ever...Charlie is the least paid starting NFL QB.Charlie is playing against deffenses who are continuously blitzing because the browns have no running game (except NY).Yesterday, i was at the game, it seemed like toothlessburger had the time to read the scores and the stats off the videotron and take a short phone call after the snaps and still have time to throw the ball. It was ridiculous. Charlie has never had more than 5 seconds to throw the ball.Check Charlie's latest stats... back to back to int games, imroving passing rates... the man is getting better and better.And believe me, it is not that he is local. If peyton manning/tim brady were standing outside the browns HQ in Berea waiting for the browns to sign them... i would see where you coming from but to bench frye for another tim couch or jeff Garcia or trent dilfer would be plain stupid.

[Dr Z]

Sure seems like a lot of fans have a hard time evaluating a QB without bringing up excuses that are supposed to have an effect on a QB's talents. I'll never understand why it is so difficult to watch a certain QB make certain throws in certain situations and make an evaluation from that. I see Charlie doing that, but I still hear the same cliche excuses about a bad line, a running game, wide receivers, blah blah blah... as I did when a former top pick was here.After seeing Aaron Rodgers stats yesterday I bet GB wishes they would have held on to that number 1 and taken Frye with their #2.

[Zips Win!]

I agree with the last three posts completely. I'd also add that if you switched Charlie and Ben in college, Charlie would have won at least two of the three head to head meetings (not sure is Charlie could have pulled off the 75 yard Hail Mary or not  ) Hmmm...would Miami have called the play "Big Charlie" in that event? 

You can blame Frye all you want for the W/L record vs. BR or any other player/team but the ONE game that I refuse to tag on Frye is the 'hail mary' game mentioned above. Down big in that game, Frye outplayed BR every step of the way, yet Lee Owens found a way to lose that game. Calling timeouts before half to give MU more opprtunities to score, kicking FG's when we should be going for it (on 4th down) and going for it when we should have been kicking......and finally having your db's tip the ball up in the air, instead of knocking it down. If there ever was a game, when the coach should have been fired on the spot, that was it.......and to think I had to endure two more years.....

[johnnyzip84]

I must not have conveyed myself properly Zips Win!. I wasn't blaming Charlie for that loss at all. I was merely saying that if Charlie had been on the team that was down by 4 with only seconds left at his own 25, I don't know that he throws it far enough for the play to be a TD like Ben did.

[Dr Z]

Tony Grossi blames Frye for loss !?!?!?"what a contrast in QB's yesterday""sacks are Charlie's fault and he is getting worse""Romeo is losing confidence in Charlie""he waits for last instant to make play, his mind is cluttered""Frye development has hit a snag"

[sgm405]

Well it looks like I'm just going to have to agree to disagree with you guys. Is the offensive line bad? YesIs the running game inconsistent? YesHave the receivers struggled at times? YesIs Charlie Frye still a huge reason for the Browns poor season? Yes..yes he isOverall numbers?63% passer, 9 TD, 12 INT, 39 sacks, 73.8 RATThat's 2nd most in the league in sacks (many of which are his own fault), 2nd most INT's, 26th in RATHis numbers in the 4th quarter, when the game is on the line?59% passer, 2 TD, 6 INT, 12 sacks, 57.6 RATHow can you defend that???? Tim Couch (who's out of the league now) did better than that with a supporting cast that has ZERO weapons. The guy is an NFL backup...a good one...but he's no starter. He stares down receivers, he doesn't step up in the pocket, he forces throws, he doesn't get rid of the ball when he does have time...he's just not that good. I'd love to see the guy succeed, because it'd be one less thing that the Browns had to get in the offseason. But it's just not the case guys...defend him til the end if you'd like, but he won't be the Browns long term starter...and shouldn't be.

[GP1]

Is Charlie Frye still a huge reason for the Browns poor season? Yes..yes he isHis numbers in the 4th quarter, when the game is on the line?59% passer, 2 TD, 6 INT, 12 sacks, 57.6 RAT

These are all good points and difficult to argue with. Is he a big part of the problem? I agree he is. Any NFL team doing poorly must look at their QB as a potential problem for a lot of reasons. I'm a Steelers fan, and there is no doubt that Ben is a huge part of the problems they are having this season. Teams live and die by the QB play. Look how good the Cowboys are with a guy like Tony R. They looked great yesterday against the NFL's best team.The second point I quoted is about Frye's performance in the fourth quarter. NFL pay checks are for a week of service, but the money is earned in the fourth quarter (some guy on the radio said that yesterday and I thought it was pretty good so I used it). Anyhow, Frye is a good QB, but teams just don't seem to win around him. I love statistics, but the "it" that some QBs have over others is difficult to measure. Ultimately, it all comes down to winning and losing. If you go to training camp or watch the warm ups before a game, every QB on both teams throws the ball perfectly...it's really fun to watch. It all comes down to what happens once the game starts and the pressure is really on. I just don't think Frye has the "it" that winning QBs have. Maybe he does, but none of us have ever seen it.....If the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, we probably never will.As far as Grossi's comments, I can't see them because of a problem with my computer but DrZ is usually good at picking out good information so I'll trust what he wrote. Grossi is only guessing. Most people have no idea of what is going on in meetings or locker rooms or inside of players' heads. I think Frye is around Cleveland for at least another season. There really is no other option and there really aren't very many good QBs not already signed to pick up. He'll be around a few more years after that and retire with a nice pile of cash. Can't argue with a pile of cash.

[GP1]

Down big in that game, Frye outplayed BR every step of the way, yet Lee Owens found a way to lose that game. Calling timeouts before half to give MU more opprtunities to score, kicking FG's when we should be going for it (on 4th down) and going for it when we should have been kicking......and finally having your db's tip the ball up in the air, instead of knocking it down. If there ever was a game, when the coach should have been fired on the spot, that was it.......and to think I had to endure two more years.....

I'd like to challenge Zips Win! to the first ever "Lee Owens Hate Off". I think he could give me a run for my money.

[johnnyzip84]

Hmmm let's see.....Terry Bradshaw.....Phil Simms.....Joe Namath.....John Elway.....Steve Young.....the list of QB's that didn't exactly light the league on fire initially, yet went on to have excellent careers, is long indeed. If you question me, take a look at the stats for the 1st couple of years for these guys. I'm not saying that Charlie will eventually be in this category, or even if he will stick in the NFL at this point or not. I think it's too early to tell quite frankly. But if sgm405 thinks he can count him out at this point, then he is working in the wrong field. He should be a chief NFL scout!!! Marino and Brady and Big Ben.....these guys are in the VAST minority (NFL QB's who achieved early success).

[bobbyake]

Honestly, I think it's cool that Cowher said that to Frye, but...He still sucks. I'm sorry, if he wasn't from Akron everyone would be saying the same thing. He's a backup in the NFL (a good one), but he will not be a starter.

No other quarterback in the NFL would be doing much better than Frye if they were playing for the Browns. It's hard to say he sucks when he's going out there every Sunday giving 120% for a Win. Most of those NFL players go out there for themselves and $$$. Frye goes out there for the Browns.

[GoZips]

I thought the morons were only on the radio. Now I learn that at least one newspaperwriter and a number of so called (sic) Zips fans fall into that group.For all you morons who take your que from WKNR (850 AM) Greg Brenda (it should beBrenda Greg) and Kenny Roda (it should be Kennie Understand) and the likes ofToni (its a girl's name) Grossi, you get what you deserve.Not one of these clucks knows squat about football at any level. Nor do you.The girls, Brenda, Toni and Kennie, have an agenda. Their agenda is to underminethe fans confidence in Charlie Frye for the purpose of promoting their darling.Who is their darling? Why its super quarterback. Its super hyped (puke) Heismanor is it mayonnaise candidate Troy "I didn't know it was illegal to steal money" Smith.The most over rated, over hyped college football player this region has seen in years.The above mentioned morons want Charlie out so they can get their boy (operativeword) in. Charlie isn't local enough for these morons. Smith is a true Clevelander.Plus, he grew up in the ghetto. Why Frye is merely a hayseed hick farmboy from thecountry side.Let me perfectly clear on my point ... Troy Smith is a fine athlete. He will play in theNFL next year. He is very much in the same mold as Joshua Cribbs. He is NOT a future NFL quarterback. If I have to detail out why I say this then you just provedthat like the morons previously mentioned, you just do not know squat about football.Charlie's supporters include several former Browns PLAYERS, current Browns PLAYERS,Bill Cowher (an NFL coach with "da ring"), Bob Pruett, a former college coach with TWOof his former quarterbacks currently playing in the NFL. Me, a former college linebacker, several other friends of mine ALL of whom played at least college football.But, you go right ahead and diss Charlie. Put yourself in that clump of morons. Afterall is said and done the two people that know the most about football are people whonever played the game and radio sports talk idiots

[Dr Z]

Wow (GoZips), such hostility!?! It's okay, people are allowed to have an opinion that doesn't mirror yours, that's what this board is about. No need for personal attacks.Interesting comparison between Cribbs and Smith. I couldn't think of two quarterbacks that are more opposite. Did somebody in our thread mention replacing Smith with Frye, or was that on a radio station that you always listen to?I think it is great that this board has people like yourself on it, since you were a college linebacker, you can really give some insight. What college did you play for?You should be real asset when it comes to discussing our current defense. Jump in.

[Buckzip]

Frye is an ok QB. He has a good work ethic, but he has limited arm strength, and I truly believe he doesn't have a high "football" IQ. He doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes, and throws too many int's.I think with a better o-line and more experience he will be a solid QB, but nothing more than that.

[Kangaroo Craig]

I thought the morons were only on the radio. Now I learn that at least one newspaperwriter and a number of so called (sic) Zips fans fall into that group.For all you morons who take your que from WKNR (850 AM) Greg Brenda (it should beBrenda Greg) and Kenny Roda (it should be Kennie Understand) and the likes ofToni (its a girl's name) Grossi, you get what you deserve.Not one of these clucks knows squat about football at any level. Nor do you.The girls, Brenda, Toni and Kennie, have an agenda. Their agenda is to underminethe fans confidence in Charlie Frye for the purpose of promoting their darling.Who is their darling? Why its super quarterback. Its super hyped (puke) Heismanor is it mayonnaise candidate Troy "I didn't know it was illegal to steal money" Smith.The most over rated, over hyped college football player this region has seen in years.The above mentioned morons want Charlie out so they can get their boy (operativeword) in. Charlie isn't local enough for these morons. Smith is a true Clevelander.Plus, he grew up in the ghetto. Why Frye is merely a hayseed hick farmboy from thecountry side.Let me perfectly clear on my point ... Troy Smith is a fine athlete. He will play in theNFL next year. He is very much in the same mold as Joshua Cribbs. He is NOT a future NFL quarterback. If I have to detail out why I say this then you just provedthat like the morons previously mentioned, you just do not know squat about football.Charlie's supporters include several former Browns PLAYERS, current Browns PLAYERS,Bill Cowher (an NFL coach with "da ring"), Bob Pruett, a former college coach with TWOof his former quarterbacks currently playing in the NFL. Me, a former college linebacker, several other friends of mine ALL of whom played at least college football.But, you go right ahead and diss Charlie. Put yourself in that clump of morons. Afterall is said and done the two people that know the most about football are people whonever played the game and radio sports talk idiots

I agree with you 100%. Anyone can look good when they have enough time to stand in the pocket and eat a sandwich. He just waits until one of his faster than coverage receivers gets open. Troy is a great athlete, but the jury is way out on him. Put him in in a situation where he has to run for his life every week and the results will be much different. I've also thought the same thing about Roethlisberger. He is the recipient of a great offensive line and powerful running game. In the first three quarters on Sunday he didn't do much because he was pressured and the Browns shut down their running attack. In the fourth quarter, the Browns went into prevent mode (Bad coaching, usually prevents you from winning) and he picked them apart. I noticed during the Michigan game that when Troy Smith was pressured, he forced some throws into double coverage. Do that in the NFL and it will go the other way for six. There is a reason why most NFL scouts look at him as a late second or third round pick. The average fan isn't smart enough to look any further than the scoreboard. The average fan also cannot comprehend the very large gap in talent between the NFL and the best college team. How can the best college team with maybe five (and that's a reach) NFL starters on it, beat a team of experienced NFL veterns? They would get slaughtered. When a team loses, its always the quarterback's fault. Charlie will be fine. Did anyone notice that he hasn't thrown a pick in his last two starts or that half of the ones he has thrown were balls that hit receivers in the hands and then bounced off and right to a defender? Those go against the QB's rating, but are not the QB's fault. Hail Mary picks at the end of a game or half should not go against the rating either.

[scottditzen]

I've watched every NFL game for two teams this year: the San Diego Chargers and the Cleveland Browns. In my humble judgement, if Charlie played for SD, they would still be 8-2 or close. And Philip Rivers, as a Cleveland Brown, would be dead.

[Big Zip]

I was at the game this week -- as I am every home game of the Browns -- the only think I've seen from Charlie that gives me some concern is his throws are a little late. A receive comes out of his break and the ball isn't there -- it's about second later. This I'm hoping is something that comes with more time with the receivers and more experience in the NFL. To say the Browns O-line is the worst in the NFL is a stretch. I truly think it's line coaching and players knowing what they are doing and there responsibilities on each play. When Charlie was mauled in the first half and fumbled that guy was untouched -- it had to be a blown assignment. Not all of the sacks are Charlie's fault and not all are the lines fault. A few concerns for Charlie and the Browns -- we all know Charlie is a great red zone QB. This team has giant receivers and they aren't throwing jump balls to them ala Randy Moss -- I can't figure it out Jurevicious is 6'5 Winslow is 6'4 and Edwards is 6'3 that's a lot of height to deal with. Most DBs are shorter guys. Droughns is hurt more than he's leading on -- Sunday with the RB hitting the holes a lot quicker yards were available -- no dancing around run straight. Charlie is going to be fine -- Cincy gave up almost 600 yards of offense last week -- I'm looking for Charlie to have a big game. Brees threw for over 500 -- the three picks is why they lost the game.

[Dr Z]

" Pocket awareness might be hard to learn for a quarterback who became a third-round draft pick by running around until somebody got open at Akron."Zip it....(get it?)