Question about Akron denying YSU into the MAC?

[Ryno aka Menace]

I made a comment about Ohio football..."Ohio State is playing for a national title, Youngstown St is in the semi finals, and so is Mount Union. The State of Ohio could have 3 national champs in football. I am willing to bet that all 3 team rosters are composed of atleast 50% or more Ohio players, yet when people mention where the best football is they say Florida, Texas, or California. Go Ohio!!!"And someone replied with..Why doesn't YSU go D-IA like Akron?Then someone replied with..in the late 90's YSU was going to make a jump to D1-A when Tressel was still there. they applied to join the MAC but Akron and Can't refused to allow them to join chosing Buffalo instead after that the push for D1 diedthen i replied with...How can 2 schools tell someone they can't come into the conference? Isn't that the job of the MAC commissioner, or conference board?

[johnnyzip84]

I am equally curious if "someone in the know" could possibly shed some light on this. Actually I had "heard" that the Michigan schools were totally against having another Ohio school in the MAC, since there was already a heavy Ohio bias. But I stress that this was purely hearsay. Is there anyone here that can comment from fact?

[Ryno aka Menace]

I have searched and found someone talking about SIU joining the MAC, about a 1/3 of the way down someone posted this....You have mentioned in several posts that YSU was recently extended an invitation to join the MAC, but was voted down by two members. You didn’t name them, but I believe you were referring to Can't and Akron, insinuating that those schools are worried about recruiting competition.sidenote someone postedMy memory is fuzzy on how Akron ended up in the MAC. But keep in mind: They weren't brought directly from I-AA.Akron made the move up, then and played four seasons as an independent before kicking off their first season in the MAC.If you look at the 1989 season, you will see the Zips went 3-0 against the MAC (Can't State, Bowling Green and Northern Illinois) and beat Cincinnati to boot. Gerry Faust was coach at the time, and there was a relative amount of excitement about the program.I'd argue they sort of forced their way in. MAC ADs probably ran out of bad things to say.But I don't really know.

[zip81]

It is correct that UA was independent I-A for a few years before joining the MAC. When Gerry Faust took over, we were still in the OVC and making the transition to D-I.It is my opinion that Faust didn't want to join the MAC. I believe he aspired to be a big-time D-I independent like Notre Dame or Penn State (at the time). The MAC wasn't big time enough.I think the MAC knew Gerry's opinion of them and that made it more difficult for Akron to join.After a few years of Coach Faust's .500 records and the lack of dominance he wanted to achieve, in addition to the death of Div. I-A independent football (with the exception of ND) Akron decided to seek MAC admission.I think the MAC wanted to expand, just like the Big 8, Big 10, WAC and the creation of new conferences such as Mountain West and C-USA...into a "Super" Conference. Akron seemed to be a logical choice. Didn't N. Illinois also rejoin when Akron entered? They left the MAC in the early 80's with their sites on becomming big-time independent too and saw the logic of belonging to a conference...especially in basketball.I think if we were in the MAC right when we went DI in football, we would have hung on to Coach Huggins in basketball for a few more years because we would have had the automatic bid. Instead, he felt hung out to dry, trying to make the tourney as an at-large, which is close to impossible for a mid-major.I agree with an earlier post that Youngstown, which was winning D-IAA championships at the time, were not invited a few years later because of the MAC presence in Ohio already reaching a saturation point.The guy from Youngstown who was posting on here a few days ago seems to vent all his anger at UA and Can't State, however, it was a strategic decision by the MAC not to let Youngstown in and bring in new markets such as Buffalo. I think that's why they're also letting in Temple..new markets, new exposure, new $$$.That's the way I remember it.

[Ryno aka Menace]

Does anyone think the MAC will add another Football only team to even things out? So it will be a 14 team conference instead of 13.here is a quote i found interesting..Your are talking nonsense about "footprints". YOUR PROBLEM IS FINDING A WINNING,GOOD ATTENDANCE SCHOOL . Winning and attendance is the MAC problem. Not "footprints"!!

[johnnyzip84]

I know that both Middle Tennessee (Sunbelt in everything) and Western Kentucky (currently Sunbelt in everything but football, 1-AA Gateway for football) have been mentioned as potential teams for MAC expansion, but I think either would be invited for all sports if it were to occur. Western has already approved a move to D1-A in football.WKU Regents Approve Move to D1-AGood summary on the Zips move into the MAC, Zips81. The only minor oversite I could see was that Northern rejoined the MAC at the same time as Buffalo (joined) and Marshall (rejoined), in 1997 if I recall correctly. Believe it or not, Northern actually joined the Big West conference (briefly) for football before coming to their senses.

[Ryno aka Menace]

2 Questions1. Besides Marshall, and Central Florida who was once but no longer a conference member.2. My original question did AKron and Can't reject YSU from entering the MAC, and if they did how?Please and Thanks,

[skip-zip]

I will add one more thing to Akron becoming 1-A.Akron apparently had wanted to join the MAC for decades, and only became 1A as a Independent because MAC membership was not going to happen at the time. I believe that Can't was always very much against us joining (which could have been for the same reasons that YSU got blocked).Bill Muse felt that we should give it a try as an Independent. However, when he left a few years later, the next administration was able to finally break through and get us into the MAC.Gerry Faust was indeed against being in the MAC. He says it in his book. And remember, at the time, the MAC was not at the level that it is today. Even during the early D1 Independent years when Faust was just starting to build the program, and the NCAA was still limiting our scholarships, we were already having great success against MAC teams. I know that I felt that we'd have a more difficult time recruiting as a MAC member than as a Major Independent. But, the MAC has improved over the years, and I don't feel that way anymore.

[Captain Kangaroo]

It is the age-old Penguin "given"...as predictable as the sun rising in the east or the Beacon not sending a reporter to a Zips' away game.Penguin Fan is unseen for 5 years...then finally they're back in the 1-AA playoffs. Penguin Fan gets full of himself and starts thinking he's too big for 1-AA football. Penguin Fan starts making posts on MAC message boards and bringing up decades-old diatribe about how they should have been in the MAC if only it weren't for U of A and K.e.n.t. Blah blah blah....Hey, it happens in Akron too. The Zips beat NC State and all of the sudden the ZipsNation is petitioning for Big East entrance.If YSU wants to move to 1-A, there is nothing stopping them. They could make the announcement tomorrow. They won't sack-up and do it. They could find plenty of C-USA, Sun Belt and MAC schools to play. They win 7 games and, with their fan following, you know they'd get a bowl bid.Why don't they do it? Because they're a big fish in a small pond and they like it that way. I don't blame them. There are already an insane amount of D1-A football schools in Ohio. Sack-up like Akron, Boise State, UConn, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, etc. and move to 1-A. Then the Penguins can legitimately gripe about not being in the MAC. Until that point: *yawn*.

[FearTheRoo]

It is correct that UA was independent I-A for a few years before joining the MAC. When Gerry Faust took over, we were still in the OVC and making the transition to D-I.It is my opinion that Faust didn't want to join the MAC. I believe he aspired to be a big-time D-I independent like Notre Dame or Penn State (at the time). The MAC wasn't big time enough.I think the MAC knew Gerry's opinion of them and that made it more difficult for Akron to join.After a few years of Coach Faust's .500 records and the lack of dominance he wanted to achieve, in addition to the death of Div. I-A independent football (with the exception of ND) Akron decided to seek MAC admission.I think the MAC wanted to expand, just like the Big 8, Big 10, WAC and the creation of new conferences such as Mountain West and C-USA...into a "Super" Conference. Akron seemed to be a logical choice. Didn't N. Illinois also rejoin when Akron entered? They left the MAC in the early 80's with their sites on becomming big-time independent too and saw the logic of belonging to a conference...especially in basketball.I think if we were in the MAC right when we went DI in football, we would have hung on to Coach Huggins in basketball for a few more years because we would have had the automatic bid. Instead, he felt hung out to dry, trying to make the tourney as an at-large, which is close to impossible for a mid-major.I agree with an earlier post that Youngstown, which was winning D-IAA championships at the time, were not invited a few years later because of the MAC presence in Ohio already reaching a saturation point.The guy from Youngstown who was posting on here a few days ago seems to vent all his anger at UA and Can't State, however, it was a strategic decision by the MAC not to let Youngstown in and bring in new markets such as Buffalo. I think that's why they're also letting in Temple..new markets, new exposure, new $$$.That's the way I remember it.

What a resource!

[zip81]

2 Questions1. Besides Marshall, and Central Florida who was once but no longer a conference member.2. My original question did AKron and Can't reject YSU from entering the MAC, and if they did how?Please and Thanks,

The MAC started in 1946 with charter members Butler, Cincinnati, Miami, OU, Western Michigan and Western Reserve.Butler withdraws in 1950 (joins Indiana Collegiate Conference)Can't and Toledo added in 1951BG added in 1952 Cincinnati withdraws in 1953 (went independent)Marshall added in 1954Western Reserve (Case) withdraws in 1955 (joins President's Athletic Conf)Marshall withdraws in 1969 (went independent)Central Mich and Eastern Mich added in 1972 (CMU begin play in 1975, EMU in 1976)Ball St and N. Illinois in 1973 (both begin play in 1975)N. Illinois withdraws in 1986 (goes independent)Akron added in 1991 (begin play in 1992)Marshall and N. Illinois rejoin in 1995 (resume play in 1997)Buffalo added in 1995 (play in 1999)Central Fla added (football only) in 2002Marshall and Central Florida withdraw in 2005 (join CUSA)Temple joins (football only) in 2007I can not answer with direct knowledge if Akron and Can't voted against YSU joining the MAC. Sorry, maybe someone can help with that one.

[zip81]

2 Questions1. Besides Marshall, and Central Florida who was once but no longer a conference member.2. My original question did AKron and Can't reject YSU from entering the MAC, and if they did how?Please and Thanks,

When in doubt, go to the MAC experts.I posted this question on the MAC forum. Turns out the MAC never even voted on admitting Youngstown.And his accusations against Akron and Can't seem to be false. If anyone was against admitting YSU, it was the Michigan schools.As you will read, few MAC fans have any favorable comments about YSU.So our Penguin friend doesn't know what he is talking about.http://www.ncaabbs.com/forums/mac/phpbb/vi...pic.php?t=41343

[eguins]

Yes. It is true about Akron and Can't vetoing Youngstown State and supporting Buffalo into the MAC. If you don't believe me: call up Jim Tressel at the Ohio State University, or perhaps call up YSU.... I am sure they have the records since they made a big push for it.You are right it was never voted on, because Akron and Can't never let it get that far... It was all about Buffalo. There was a big thread on JJHuddle.com about this last week, and there were some very informing posts on there from those that do know more.I bet you guys also did not know that YSU Tried to schedule OSU in the mid-90s and it was going to happen until Cooper said no.... he did not want to risk losing to a I-AA team, even if there were a champion....Again.. You wonder why YSU made drawings to make Stambaugh Stadium into a bowl.. we were expecting to join the MAC... And I know our AD and he tells me he would love to go to the MAC, but money is now holding us back!AND YES: YOUNGSTOWN STATE Loss today... and I still showed up....Don't think of me as arrogant... just passionate...YTOWN LOVES FOOTBALL

[zip81]

Yes. It is true about Akron and Can't vetoing Youngstown State and supporting Buffalo into the MAC. If you don't believe me: call up Jim Tressel at the Ohio State University, or perhaps call up YSU.... I am sure they have the records since they made a big push for it.You are right it was never voted on, because Akron and Can't never let it get that far... It was all about Buffalo. There was a big thread on JJHuddle.com about this last week, and there were some very informing posts on there from those that do know more.I bet you guys also did not know that YSU Tried to schedule OSU in the mid-90s and it was going to happen until Cooper said no.... he did not want to risk losing to a I-AA team, even if there were a champion....Again.. You wonder why YSU made drawings to make Stambaugh Stadium into a bowl.. we were expecting to join the MAC... And I know our AD and he tells me he would love to go to the MAC, but money is now holding us back!AND YES: YOUNGSTOWN STATE Loss today... and I still showed up....Don't think of me as arrogant... just passionate...YTOWN LOVES FOOTBALL

Since you are such a great program...why don't you go IA Independent?Certainly YSU shouldn't bother with a crappy little mid-major like the MAC.As you can see from the MAC forum, there was a lot bigger effort to not letting YSU in than just Akron and Can't.My goodness, those Michigan schools won't hear about ANOTHER Ohio school in the conference.

[Captain Kangaroo]

You are right it was never voted on, because Akron and Can't never let it get that far... It was all about Buffalo. There was a big thread on JJHuddle.com about this last week, and there were some very informing posts on there from those that do know more.

Finally...we have a winner for "Least Compelling Worldwide Internet Thread of 2007!" It narrowly edged out a thread discussing an odd-shaped mole on Brett Musberger's back.

[zippyrifle32]

Yes. It is true about Akron and Can't vetoing Youngstown State and supporting Buffalo into the MAC. If you don't believe me: call up Jim Tressel at the Ohio State University, or perhaps call up YSU.... I am sure they have the records since they made a big push for it.You are right it was never voted on, because Akron and Can't never let it get that far... It was all about Buffalo. There was a big thread on JJHuddle.com about this last week, and there were some very informing posts on there from those that do know more.I bet you guys also did not know that YSU Tried to schedule OSU in the mid-90s and it was going to happen until Cooper said no.... he did not want to risk losing to a I-AA team, even if there were a champion....Again.. You wonder why YSU made drawings to make Stambaugh Stadium into a bowl.. we were expecting to join the MAC... And I know our AD and he tells me he would love to go to the MAC, but money is now holding us back!AND YES: YOUNGSTOWN STATE Loss today... and I still showed up....Don't think of me as arrogant... just passionate...YTOWN LOVES FOOTBALL

still here? why?

[ZipAlumn]

You are right it was never voted on, because Akron and Can't never let it get that far... It was all about Buffalo. There was a big thread on JJHuddle.com about this last week, and there were some very informing posts on there from those that do know more.

Finally...we have a winner for "Least Compelling Worldwide Internet Thread of 2007!" It narrowly edged out a thread discussing an odd-shaped mole on Brett Musberger's back.

Brent Musberger has an "odd shaped mole" on his back????

[eguins]

Hey I am still here:PR: YSUSports.comYoungstown State football fans showed they remain some of the most loyal and supportive in Division I-AA as the Penguins ranked fourth in total attendance and 10th in average per game attendance according to figures released by the NCAA this week. On the strength of playing eight home games -- third-most in the country -- YSU had 121,269 fans in attendance for an average of 15,159 per contest. If YSU would be in the MAC... Make that number 20,000 per game....... O YA: BTW: Youngstown State is building a $3 million dollar indoor practice facility for football/soccer/track and other sports in the next 2-3 years. I am told from a very high up source: that this will help in a transition to I-A in the coming years!