attendance article

[UA Fan]

http://www.recordpub.com/news/article/1640061

[zipsbandman]

Can't may have winning teams, but they don't have the better school.

[UAZipster0305]

[skip-zip]

With all due respect to my fellow Northeast Ohio sports fans, this article once again proves what many of us have known for decades.There are a lot of fair-weather sports fans in NE Ohio.Can't wasn't expected to win this year, so the people haven't been showing up. To the contrary, Akron was a favorite this year, so our crowds have grown. Next year, if we have a drop off, and Can't continues to grow with their young freshman and sophomore talent, don't be surprised if they start getting the crowds again, and we struggle. Oh...did I mention?.....

[zip81]

After 9 20 win seasons and you still have a following like that, I guess Can't won't be the next Gonzaga. What's it gotten them?I would hope that if we achieve the success Can't has on the court that the story would be quite different.

[Z-Pouch]

With all due respect to my fellow Northeast Ohio sports fans, this article once again proves what many of us have known for decades.There are a lot of fair-weather sports fans in NE Ohio.Can't wasn't expected to win this year, so the people haven't been showing up.  To the contrary, Akron was a favorite this year, so our crowds have grown. Next year, if we have a drop off, and Can't continues to grow with their young freshman and sophomore talent, don't be surprised if they start getting the crowds again, and we struggle. Oh...did I mention?.....

Sorry, poor excuse. If the Zips would ever rip off 9 consecutive 20 win seasons, mulitple NCAA berths and in turn barely draw an average of 3000 fans during another 20 win season, I would seriously find another favorite team and disown my alumni. Thats embarrassing and pitiful. What it shows to me is that Can't has had no idea how to market and build a fanbase. 10 years of winning and you can't develop a solid following...its a small 6000 seat arena with cheap tickets....it's not that hard with winning...That is the pinnacle of failure....it's classic Can't....It's why 10 years of consistent winning in Akron and additional corporate suppport that comes with it, you're talking about building a larger arena to handle the crowds, not worrying about getting a thousand additional fans out to a game. Think Big. Dont think like K.E.N.T.

[zip81]

With all due respect to my fellow Northeast Ohio sports fans, this article once again proves what many of us have known for decades.There are a lot of fair-weather sports fans in NE Ohio.Can't wasn't expected to win this year, so the people haven't been showing up.  To the contrary, Akron was a favorite this year, so our crowds have grown. Next year, if we have a drop off, and Can't continues to grow with their young freshman and sophomore talent, don't be surprised if they start getting the crowds again, and we struggle. Oh...did I mention?.....

Sorry, poor excuse. If the Zips would ever rip off 9 consecutive 20 win seasons, mulitple NCAA berths and in turn barely draw an average of 3000 fans during another 20 win season, I would seriously find another favorite team and disown my alumni. Thats embarrassing and pitiful. What it shows to me is that Can't has had no idea how to market and build a fanbase. 10 years of winning and you can't develop a solid following...its a small 6000 seat arena with cheap tickets....it's not that hard with winning...That is the pinnacle of failure....it's classic Can't....It's why 10 years of consistent winning in Akron and additional corporate suppport that comes with it, you're talking about building a larger arena to handle the crowds, not worrying about getting a thousand additional fans out to a game. Think Big. Dont think like K.E.N.T.

I agree Z.I congratulate Can't for their success on the court.However, their fan base is pathetic.Can't fans have no business talking smack when it comes to attendance or faithful fans.

[zipsbandman]

With all due respect to my fellow Northeast Ohio sports fans, this article once again proves what many of us have known for decades.There are a lot of fair-weather sports fans in NE Ohio.Can't wasn't expected to win this year, so the people haven't been showing up.  To the contrary, Akron was a favorite this year, so our crowds have grown. Next year, if we have a drop off, and Can't continues to grow with their young freshman and sophomore talent, don't be surprised if they start getting the crowds again, and we struggle. Oh...did I mention?.....

They are playing for a tourney bid EVERY SINGLE year. That is a small time excuse. Christian will be out of that hell hole in no time.

[skip-zip]

If we don't want the same thing to happen, someone might want to look at the Huggins era from 1984-1989, in which we won consistently, and had several post-season appearances, and see if our attendance continued to climb during that period.I was still a student during the first couple of those years, and attended quite a few games after I graduated. And, my recollection is that the crowds were the largest around the 85-86 period. But before we do that....how about we wait and see if "a bunch of winning seasons, and NCAA tournament appearances" really happens. I think I'd worry about that first.

[zipsbandman]

If we don't want the same thing to happen, someone might want to look at the Huggins era from 1984-1989, in which we won consistently, and had several post-season appearances, and see if our attendance continued to climb during that period.I was still a student during the first couple of those years, and attended quite a few games after I graduated. And, my recollection is that the crowds were the largest around the 85-86 period. But before we do that....how about we wait and see if "a bunch of winning seasons, and NCAA tournament appearances" really happens. I think I'd worry about that first.

You got a point, but I think Akron is a much different school than what it used to be back then. There is not as much apathy on campus....not that there isn't still a long way to go though.

[zip81]

It's very difficult to compare the Huggins era with the current one.First of all, our program was growing back then. We were in the OVC with a bunch of schools with which we really couldn't relate.We were in the infancy of our D I experience.Much different.

[BZip_08]

Think Big. Dont think like K.E.N.T.

Ouch. I like it."Every one of those "fans" will storm the court just like last year if Can't State defends its title, and they will all claim that they were behind the flushes all along.The 3,016 true fans who took the time to get to the M.A.C. Center on Wednesday night will have every right to roll their eyes and demand, "Where were you the last few months?"" Can't is Can't.... kinda pitiful.

[skip-zip]

Zip81..I'm guessing by your '81 that you have been around this program since at least the 80's, much like myself. And you have brought up some factors that I agree SHOULD be leading to better fan response in this era (as opposed to the Huggins era), such as playing more recognizable teams, and being further into our history as a D-1. But, look at a few comparisons from our first couple of years of success back then, and compare them to our first couple of years of success now.......1) During our runs towards OVC Championships in 86 and 87, we as students knew that we needed to come to some games ABOUT AN HOUR EARLY just to get a seat. Do you see that happening now?2) At our last regular season home game following the 85-86 season, we were playing Austin Peay (yes, the same Austin Peay), not Bowling Green (a more recongnizable school), and the place was packed. And there was no 2 for 1 ticket giveaway, no marque senior class being honored, and no LeBron clings being given away. 3) During the 86-87 season, the school gave the entire section of bleachers on the West side (yes, they were still bleachers at the time) to the students. And as I said, many times it was filled long before the game. I recall people sitting in the aisles, and on the track during big games. 4) Huggins, and many others in Akron were publicly talking about what they were going to do about the overflow crowds, how they were going to go about turning people away, and questioning why they had outgrown JAR Arena (which had only been used for 5 years) so fast. 5) In 87, we were scheduled to play a ranked Pitt team at home, and the game had to be moved to the Richfield Coliseum because we knew that the JAR could never hold the demand for tickets. And that was also a December game, after the school semester was over. Did you see that kind of demand when ranked Nevada came to town this year? If you are trying to make the point that fans are going to respond better to our current run of success, there's simply no indication of that so far. But I sure hope it changes, and I can tell these stories all over again about the current era of Akron basketball.

[zip81]

You make good points.First of all, yes, I graduated in '81, so when I was a student, we were still DII and playing in Memorial Hall with Ken Cunningham and Bob Rupert as our coaches. Rupert, by the way, was KD's high school coach at Firestone...but I digress.The Huggins era was electric to be sure. Even though I graduated, I was a big fan and went to the games on a consistent basis (pre marriage ) The OVC tournament down in Murfeesboro...the NIT game at Ohio State...it was a blast. However, the Coleman and Hipsher eras took a lot of steam out of this program.We've been D I for some time now, so I think the newness of success at this level has worn off.I'm not trying to say that we have mirrored the excitement or fan support of the mid 80's.All I'm saying is that it can happen again...that's all...but we're not there yet.Hell, remember when we used to sell out the Bowl for Acme Zip? That place was packed. I remember we would hop on the buses in front of the library and take them down to the bowl..we had enough fans for a card section....a card section..at Akron?Things have changed. There's so much more competition for the entertainment buck. It is difficult comparing eras.I hope that with KD's committment to his alma mater, and I really believe he is a good coach..that if we have a couple of winning seasons...like Huggins...the electricity may return, even with all the entertainment competition and distractions.I have to believe, though, that if we ever get a string of great basketball like, and I hesitate to use the word, K E N T, and we still draw as pathetic and the flushes...then it will be time to wave the white flag.Proud to be Blue & GoldDid I mention that ?

[Captain Kangaroo]

During our runs towards OVC Championships in 86 and 87, we as students knew that we needed to come to some games ABOUT AN HOUR EARLY just to get a seat. Do you see that happening now?

I was a student from 84-89. Other than the Cleveland state game, I never had to wait an hour to get in the JAR. Crowds in that era were typical of what we saw at the JAR the past two months. 4k to 5k.

At our last regular season home game following the 85-86 season, we were playing Austin Peay (yes, the same Austin Peay), not Bowling Green (a more recongnizable school), and the place was packed. And there was no 2 for 1 ticket giveaway, no marque senior class being honored, and no LeBron clings being given away.

I don't understand your point? We packed the house for the BG game. I don't think the 2-for-1 deal had anything to do with it. We would have had 5k+ regardless of the ticket promotion.

During the 86-87 season, the school gave the entire section of bleachers on the West side (yes, they were still bleachers at the time) to the students. And as I said, many times it was filled long before the game. I recall people sitting in the aisles, and on the track during big games.

I went to a lot of games back then. There was only one game packed with people in the aisles and on the track. That was Cleveland State. The reason that happened was 2-fold:1.) CSU was coming off their Sweet 16 run and got a TON of press in Northeast Ohio.2.) CSU is local and brought a few thousand of their own fans.Such a game was prevented from ever occuring again due to Fire Marshalls limiting the JAR capacity to 5,500 after that game.

Huggins, and many others in Akron were publicly talking about what they were going to do about the overflow crowds, how they were going to go about turning people away, and questioning why they had outgrown JAR Arena (which had only been used for 5 years) so fast.

All that talk occurred AFTER the '86 Zips made the NCAAs.You will hear the same things from the existing coach, mayor, papers, administration etc if the Zips make it to the NCAA's this year.

In 87, we were scheduled to play a ranked Pitt team at home, and the game had to be moved to the Richfield Coliseum because we knew that the JAR could never hold the demand for tickets. And that was also a December game, after the school semester was over. Did you see that kind of demand when ranked Nevada came to town this year?

Reasons for that are:1.) The Pitt game came the year following the Zips '86 NCAA appearance. There was a big buzz due to that. The Nevada came came on the heels of our NIT appearance. BIG difference.2.) Pitt is a recognizeable name to NE Ohio fans. Nevada is comparatively unknown, even though they are a Top-10 team.3.) Pitt had Jerome Lane. Lots of Akron people wanted to see the "favorite son" in action. A couple thousand.

If you are trying to make the point that fans are going to respond better to our current run of success, there's simply no indication of that so far. But I sure hope it changes, and I can tell these stories all over again about the current era of Akron basketball.

If the Zips had made the NCAA's last season, then the attendance comparison of '86 to '07 would be valid. We are still a year shy of being able to compare the eras. Mark this thread and re-visit it next season. I think you'll have all the proof you need that Zips fans of 2007-8 will support a winnner as well as, and probably better than in '86.

[Z-Pouch]

Skip-Zip --- What is your point ?Are you telling everyone that it is okay and understandable to draw 3000 measly fans after developing a successful program on the court ? I completely disagree. 3000 is embarrassing after all that success - I can't even fathom a logical acceptable excuse unless people are not doing there job marketing and developing the fan base. 3000 is not a big number for this area and the number of alumni/students.Are you also saying that if the football team wins year after year for a decade, that we will still draw 15k ? I completely disagree.How can you compare our attendence now with the Huggins years ? They won something. We havent really won anything yet in the 2000s that puts you over the top with the fans. Plus, you are forgeting a little span of 8 years in the 90s where the Zips under Crawford sunk to all time lows -- ALI KART was the leading scorer one year. Consistent losing and bad a product sets you way back. And Pitt versus Nevada....Major versus Mid Major trying to be Major....Ranked team versus a ranked team with less losses then everyone in the country but still cant crack the top 10.........2 hour car drive versus 3 day car drive.....west coast versus your backyard....Are you still suprised that Pitt would kill Nevada in attendence draw playing Akron. Seems pretty logical to me. And absolutely everyone I've talked to here was very embarrassed with the turnout for Nevada. People didnt do a very good job of selling that game and getting over the hurdle that this program hasnt won anything consistently yet.I sure hope that we are not drawing 3k/BB and 15k/FB with good championship programs if we ever get there. Also, please note no predictions on my part other then we wouldn't be talking about trying to get from 3k to 4k in attendence.

[skip-zip]

Zip 81....Thanks for bringing back some old memories !!I'm sorry to see that you had to endure the entire Rupert era. Luckily, I was able to get a couple of years of the Huggins era before I graduated. Honestly, I am probably more disappointed in the way the Rubber Bowl crowds have digressed over the last 10-15 years than the basketball attendance. Although, I went to plenty of games during the Crawford and Hipsher years where very few people were there. Add in the Lee Owens era, and were talking about quite a few lean years for both football and basketball.Heck, I hope you are right. I really would like to see us relive, or surpass, the fan support we had in the 80's. I'm just not seeing some of the same signs of improvement that I was seeing during the first couple of years of the Huggins era. And boy, once Dru and Romeo are gone, I wonder if that will have a negative impact on the local community showing up. I sure as heck hope we didn't peak this year. You're right. If we do continue to get pathetic crowds like K E N T, even after stringing several winning seasons together, I'll be throwing up the white flag as well.And I agree

[Big Zip]

To me this is a really odd string of notes....I thought it might provide us with some perspective if we checked the real numbers.Huggins era:84-85 2,605 after a the inaugural season at the JAR with 4,179 (still the record annual attendance)85-86 3,47386-87 3,58987-88 3,60488-89 3,780Dambrodt era:04-05 3,36905-06 3,47006-07 3,593Remarkably close attendance records. The third year of the Hipsher era by comparison averaged 3,620 fans -- the year they were MAC East Champs. The 3,780 was the high water mark for Akron Basketball attendance after that initial year. I would love to see an attendance record next year, but its probably going to take scheduling someone other than Tiffin, Winston Salem State, St. Francis and Loyola Marymount. If we get Youngstown at home next year I would say that is a good start as is Duquesne -- CSU needs to be on the schedule too. Local rivalries and better selling of the games is the key. I would say a good goal for next year would be take surpas the 3,780 annual attendance from the final year of the Huggins era with sites set on the attendance record. All in all attendance has never been spectacular (factually speaking) at Akron either, but we haven't had the success Can't has -- yet!

[skip-zip]

Captain. Thanks for your thoughts as well. This is some really good banter going on between some of us older folks.It's good to compare the eras. I certainly hope that you and Zip81 are right, and that we'll eventually be on to something more special this time around as well.

[Captain Kangaroo]

To me this is a really odd string of notes....I thought it might provide us with some perspective if we checked the real numbers.Huggins era:84-85 2,605 after a the inaugural season at the JAR with 4,179 (still the record annual attendance)85-86 3,47386-87 3,58987-88 3,60488-89 3,780Dambrodt era:04-05 3,36905-06 3,47006-07 3,593

Stop posting facts. That's cheating!

[skip-zip]

No. The numbers are good to see. Thanks Big Zip.If we can find a way to match the 80's excitement (as Zip81 states), I hope that we can indeed still grow the attendance to surpass what it was back then. I'm just still quite frustrated after what I thought would to be a very very special year for us, attendance wise. I sure hope that the only difference is that we are still a year or two away. And I still believe that we need to start filling some of the lower reserved seats, with students or whoever, to eliminate the embarrassment of the all the no-shows (which by the way, are included in our attendance numbers). If those seats had people in them that were into the game like the people on the ends (or anything close to that), the game experience would be more electric for everyone, and it would make people more excited about coming back.On several occassions this year, I took clients that were not Zips fans (and hoped to convert them), and they seemed bored. They expected more noise, and people on their feet more often. Although, I am sure I am preaching to the choir on this point.

[ZachTheZip]

Maybe the AK-Rowdies should get the one reserved section behind the opposing bench, instead of being split in two behind the baskets. I would love to have a unified student section. Sell the seats behind the basket and move the students somewhere else down low. That would be great. It's too bad the administration is working so hard to minimalize fan support. I'd email somebody about the idea, but I am sure that it would be ignored and I would never get a response.

[skip-zip]

Behind the opposing bench would be the best place for you guys.