Frye To Start Sunday

[skip-zip]

Sorry, should have clarified.....FIRST 16 GAMES AS A STARTER.Charlie only started a handful of games his first season. And please don't tell you want to debate over Manning's rating possibly being 1 point higher than Charlie's. Dude, I'm not trying to argue with you. We're here to support, and share information about the Zips. I'm only explaining to you that NOBODY in the NFL will tell you that they can predict the future of an NFL QB by how they perform early in their career. QBs usually perform very poorly in their first 16 starts, however, Charlie has performed better than, or equal to most of them.Does this mean he will be a great QB? Again, we don't know. But it's surely a good sign. Charlie won the starting job. Anderson was nothing more than a charade to push Charlie to get better. For God's sake, he narrowly escaped the waiver wire. Now, if you don't mind, lets get back to supporting the current Zips.

[sgm405]

Sorry, should have clarified.....FIRST 16 GAMES AS A STARTER.Charlie only started a handful of games his first season. And please don't tell you want to debate over Manning's rating possibly being 1 point higher than Charlie's. Dude, I'm not trying to argue with you. We're here to support, and share information about the Zips. I'm only explaining to you that NOBODY in the NFL will tell you that they can predict the future of an NFL QB by how they perform early in their career. QBs usually perform very poorly in their first 16 starts, however, Charlie has performed better than, or equal to most of them.Does this mean he will be a great QB? Again, we don't know. But it's surely a good sign. Charlie won the starting job. Anderson was nothing more than a charade to push Charlie to get better. For God's sake, he narrowly escaped the waiver wire. Now, if you don't mind, lets get back to supporting the current Zips.

The big difference between Manning and Frye is that Manning had the tools/raw skills to be a big time QB coming out of college...he just needed game experience. Frye doesn't have the tools...he simply doesn't. And I've still received no response to my 2nd question...

[UADavid]

Frye doesn't have the tools...he simply doesn't

"Im not gonna debate ya Jerry" Once again your pinion is stated as fact. We all understand you think Charlie stinks. The horse is dead, you can stop beating it now. It is my opinion that you are wrong. Time will show who is right. Ok? We disagree with you. Your red cape in front of the bull rants every time someone mentions Charlie are amusing. You don't disappoint in needing to state your "facts" at every turn. It simply is unnecessary for you to respond to every positive response as to CF's abilities. If the moderators could perform a search of your posts, I would expect a large percentage are about him. And they come in waves of 5 or 6 posts as to how bad he is. You have an unhealthy fascination with Mr. Frye.

[sgm405]

Frye doesn't have the tools...he simply doesn't

"Im not gonna debate ya Jerry" Once again your pinion is stated as fact. We all understand you think Charlie stinks. The horse is dead, you can stop beating it now. It is my opinion that you are wrong. Time will show who is right. Ok? We disagree with you. Your red cape in front of the bull rants every time someone mentions Charlie are amusing. You don't disappoint in needing to state your "facts" at every turn. It simply is unnecessary for you to respond to every positive response as to CF's abilities. If the moderators could perform a search of your posts, I would expect a large percentage are about him. And they come in waves of 5 or 6 posts as to how bad he is. You have an unhealthy fascination with Mr. Frye.

So, UADavid, answer my question and present an argument. I've presented statistics to back my claim - you simply say I'm wrong. So tell me...1) What makes you think Frye is a good NFL QB?2) What does Frye do especially well?

[UADavid]

It's way too early in a career to claim he's a bust. He may not succeed in Cleveland but IT IS MY OPINION he will succeed somewhere else. They threw the kitchen sink at Quinn and will need to justify the choice so he will be the QB. I understand that. Charlie is a young qb who has stats that are on par with most other qb's to start their careers. Your pompous indignant arrogant arguments are juvenile, as though you are the all knowing and seeing OZ who has the QB knowledge to impart at everyone. If you weren't so full of yourself, you could see the light. WE disagree! Can we at least agree to that?

[sgm405]

It's way to early in a career to claim he's a bust. He may not succeed in Cleveland but IT IS MY OPINION he will succeed somewhere else. They threw the kitchen sink at Quinn and will need to justify the choice so he will be the QB. I understand that. Charlie is a young qb who has stats that are on par with most other qb's to start their careers. Your pompous indignant arrogant arguments are juvenile, as though you are the all knowing and seeing OZ who has the QB knowledge to impart at everyone. If you weren't so full of yourself, you could see the light. WE disagree! Can we at least agree to that?

And again, you avoid my questions. You still haven't told me why you believe he's a good NFL QB, and still haven't said what he does especially well. Instead you deflect those questions and attack me. I do respect your opinion, and don't think I'm always right at all. I was genuinely interested to see the other side of the story. But you having no responses to my questions and no support to your opinions doesn't add much credibility to your side...that's all I'm saying.

[zen]

1) What makes you think Frye is a good NFL QB?2) What does Frye do especially well?

1) He makes things happen2) He throws well on the move*that was just two direct responses. He also has a lot of other qualities, some of them considered 'intageables', like "heart", is a very good study [game preparation] and strong understanding of his offenses and defense. That's not just me. I am paraphrasing things I've heard Bernie Kosar say about him

[sgm405]

1) What makes you think Frye is a good NFL QB?2) What does Frye do especially well?

1) He makes things happen2) He throws well on the move*that was just two direct responses. He also has a lot of other qualities, some of them considered 'intageables', like "heart", is a very good study [game preparation] and strong understanding of his offenses and defense. That's not just me. I am paraphrasing things I've heard Bernie Kosar say about him

1) He "makes things happen"? What exactly? The statistics show that he doesn't make much happen at all...2) So his main strength is throwing on the move (which I don't even think he does overly well)...doesn't that tell us something about him?I'm not trying to be a jerk...I'm just saying...

[g-mann17]

I'm not trying to be a jerk...I'm just saying...

Nah, you apparently don't have to try at all. Zen is making great points, but you (just as you accused him) deflect the point and use your own opinion as fact.Compare Frye's first 16 games to Manning's first 16 games (I've posted it before) Nearly identical stats. What's the difference? Manning's front office went out and got him a line for his second season (that didn't get injured in training camp by the way) then went and got him a top running back and receiver. So if you think that after 2 seaons you can determine how good a QB is going to be, you are sorely mistaken. Anyone who actually knows football knows that a QB alone does not win games. Big Ben was successful because he had a great line and one hell of a running game. Look what happened after the team lost some of it's pieces.So how about everyone get off Quinn's JV superstar jock, and give Frye a fair shake (meaning more then 2 series in a row and all of the first team reps in practice) then let his play with a 100% team be the determining factor.

[skip-zip]

g-mann 17....THANK YOU !!!This guy keeps ignoring facts, and frankly there's nothing more we can do. Charlie's QB rating, as all of us have stated, is right on par or ahead of where most QBs are at this point in their career.And considering the situation Cleveland is in right now...that REALLY says a lot.

[sgm405]

g-mann -What great points has he made? This is the defense presented concerning Frye:1. "He makes things happen" (???)2. He throws well on the move (Not even sure I'd agree...better, but not well)3. He doesn't have anything around him (Apparently he isn't held accountable for his play)4. He and Manning had the same QB rating in their first 16 startsSure, we can compare the first years of Manning and Roethlisberger and every other QB with Frye's. And sure, they might be close. But think about Peyton Manning coming out of college...he had unbelievable skills and talent - he just needed experience. Does Frye have unbelievable skills and talent? No...and that's a HUGE difference between the two. It's silly to even compare them at any point. I swear, I've seen some of the silliest arguments made regarding Frye on this board. I understand - he was a Zip. But that doesn't mean you need to make excuse after excuse for him for why he has put up nothing but poor statistics, has failed to lead the team to victory, and has not made great strides from the time he started to the present. Enjoy it while it lasts...it's Brady Quinn time in 6-8 weeks...and for good.

[g-mann17]

But think about Peyton Manning coming out of college...he had unbelievable skills and talent - he just needed experience. Does Frye have unbelievable skills and talent? No...and that's a HUGE difference between the two. It's silly to even compare them at any point. Enjoy it while it lasts...it's Brady Quinn time in 6-8 weeks...and for good.

And why do you consider Manning as having great skills? Because he played for Tennessee? If Charlie Frye had went to Tennessee and broken 54 school records while playing there would you still say he didn't have talent? If Manning had played for Alcorn State would you still consider him having great skill?The fact is the Frye haters are mostly mid major haters. They think if they didn't play for the Big 10, SEC, ACC or PAC 10 then they are worthless. "They must not have any talent or else Michigan would have recruited them."The fact is, Frye has the ability, he was on every (and yes i do mean every) teams list as a 1st day selection. If you think Quinn will in after 6-8 weeks that's your issue. There are too many "have to have it now" fans in Cleveland that don't understand that every team that has ever won a superbowl didn't do it over night. I stick by my prediction that Frye will have a Superbowl ring before Quinn ever does (and i don't think Quinn will ever have one because he can't win big games and he can't come from behind)

[zen]

I stick by my prediction that Frye will have a Superbowl ring before Quinn ever does (and i don't think Quinn will ever have one because he can't win big games and he can't come from behind)

That's a rough one. If (more appropriately, when) Quinn starts over Frye, unless he flops or suffers a major injury, Charlie will be relegated to backup until his time is through with Cleveland. You just don't draft a QB in the first round and never give him a shot.The catch is, when (more appropriately, if) it appears Frye will only be a backup because Quinn pertinently assumes the role as starter, will Charlie's experience and resume be more lucrative to Cleveland as trade bait than as a backup. That's the question.

[sgm405]

But think about Peyton Manning coming out of college...he had unbelievable skills and talent - he just needed experience.  Does Frye have unbelievable skills and talent?  No...and that's a HUGE difference between the two.  It's silly to even compare them at any point.  Enjoy it while it lasts...it's Brady Quinn time in 6-8 weeks...and for good.

And why do you consider Manning as having great skills? Because he played for Tennessee? If Charlie Frye had went to Tennessee and broken 54 school records while playing there would you still say he didn't have talent? If Manning had played for Alcorn State would you still consider him having great skill?The fact is the Frye haters are mostly mid major haters. They think if they didn't play for the Big 10, SEC, ACC or PAC 10 then they are worthless. "They must not have any talent or else Michigan would have recruited them."The fact is, Frye has the ability, he was on every (and yes i do mean every) teams list as a 1st day selection. If you think Quinn will in after 6-8 weeks that's your issue. There are too many "have to have it now" fans in Cleveland that don't understand that every team that has ever won a superbowl didn't do it over night. I stick by my prediction that Frye will have a Superbowl ring before Quinn ever does (and i don't think Quinn will ever have one because he can't win big games and he can't come from behind)

Are you seriously questioning whether or not Peyton Manning had/has great skills/ability? Seriously? His arm strength, passing accuracy, field awareness, ability to read defenses, etc etc etc etc etc....you are questioning that? It has nothing to do with what college he went to, and everything to do with his ability to play QB in the NFL. I think Ben Roethlisberger is and Byron Leftwich was a very good NFL QB, and they both went to MAC schools. McNair had a superb NFL career, and he came from Alcorn. Never did I say I didn't think Frye had the skills because he came from Akron...you're just trying to put words into my mouth. He simply doesn't have the skills to be a starter - just my opinion. By the way, your knock on Quinn is that he can't win a big game? Tell me - what big game did Frye ever win?

[g-mann17]

Are you seriously questioning whether or not Peyton Manning had/has great skills/ability? Seriously? His arm strength, passing accuracy, field awareness, ability to read defenses, etc etc etc etc etc....you are questioning that?

No I am questioning how you determine talent. If Manning had come from Alcorn St, he would not have been as highly touted as he was coming from Tennessee. (despite having the same ability)If Frye had come from a big school with the same stats as he had at Akron, people would not be so hard on him. The fact is he is a MAC athlete and MAC athletes have to succeed immediately or they are considered a bust.

[bobbyake]

somebody needs to donate a Dale Carnegie book to sgm. He is one of the worst I've ever seen at trying to convince someone to think his way. Even George Bush does a better job than this kid. At least he's not writing his 10 page responses anymore.

[sgm405]

somebody needs to donate a Dale Carnegie book to sgm. He is one of the worst I've ever seen at trying to convince someone to think his way. Even George Bush does a better job than this kid. At least he's not writing his 10 page responses anymore.

1) I'm not a kid2) Shouldn't you be sketching your plans for your skyscrapers?

[GP1]

GP, you're an ahole, but you made me laugh, so you get a pass this time.Have a good day.Your buddy, ZP

You made me laugh too......Best wishes.

[GP1]

Where are the apologists? You know who you are.......

[GP1]

With all that you "know" why don't you pick the winning lotto numbers, buy an island, and live happily ever after with gp1.

UC David gives his point. I'll move in with sgm405 if you admit you slept with Mike Waddell.Frye was absolutely horrible today and was the cause of the Browns loss. You guys can make excuses from now till the cows come home, but the guy is just stupid and doesn't belong in the NFL. I love the NFL and every day he is in it, it is another day that destroys it. He is the same stupid guy who played at Akron and only won 19 D-1A games in four years. Completing a pass to a guy five yards out of bounds....anyone see that at Akron?..... Every game....evey day that goes by, I become more and more right about this guy. "Stupid is as stupid does." Forrest Gump.God bless the Pittsburgh Steelers!

[GP1]

Tell me - what big game did Frye ever win?

I can help here.......NONE!

[GP1]

You don't know "s%#t" about either player.

Why don't you tell us what you think big mouth. You come on here and tell everyone how little they know. Tell us how Charlie was actually good against the Steelers. We'll wait for you to get your thoughts from Cincinnati. I'd love to hear you string of stupidity.

[GP1]

DA played just as well as Frye did in the preseason -

In all fairness, he really didn't. Anderson stunk in preseason.

[Agent Zero]

DA played just as well as Frye did in the preseason -

In all fairness, he really didn't. Anderson stunk in preseason.

Yeah, he may have stunk, but at least he was able to move the ball a little bit against the Steeler defense. The announcers said something very intresting though; since Frye got 90% of the snaps in practice, how would Anderson look if he had the majority of snaps like Frye had this past week? Better? Worse? About the same? Something to ponder..

[eguins]

Frye and the Browns are Pathetic. Bottom Line. No if's, and's, or but's about it. Frye was trash and Anderson was trash. Romeo Crennel sucks. Just throw out the best QB of the 3, Brady Quinn.Damn I hate the Browns but I still would never want to see them lose because of dumb ass decisions by their coach.Quinn for week 2.