MAC Attendance

[GP1]

We talk a lot on this board about why people don't go to Akron, or even MAC games (with the exception of Temple who just broke the MAC single season attendance record). A lot of blame gets pointed at the Marketing Department or the commissioner of the MAC. Here is another way of looking at it....Last night my wife, who is infinitely smarter than I am, which makes her even that much smarter than everyone else on this board, made a really good point to me about why people don't go to MAC games. She doesn't put much blame on marketing departments or the MAC. She said, "Marketing the MAC is like being the Director of Marketing at Dollar General. You can get people to shop once, but once they see the crap you are selling, they don't want to come back." After that game Wednesday night, I don't see much fault in her logic.Unfortunately, Akron, and most MAC schools, can get people to fill a stadium when they give out free tickets. We've seen that for years at UofA. Even when they have been good, people still do not see the value in spending a lot of money to go see the product. Since people don't want to spend the money, we get a Dollar General type product thrown at us. Miami needed a win against UofA to help forward their chances to make the MACC and nobody went to the game. Why would anyone go to a game where the potential winner of a conference could potentially win the league with 5-6 loses?Now that the MAC is back to what it was during the pre-Marshall days, it is only going to get worse. It is just a bad league.I love the MAC and want it to get better. Now that I'm away from it and can look at it more objectively, I'm not certain it can be any more than what it is right now. That's too bad.Have a good weekend everyone.

[ZippyRulz]

A new era is dawning for The University of Akron and its football program. At its regular meeting today, the University's Board of Trustees approved the financing and construction plans for a $55 million, on-campus football stadium as part of the second phase of the New Landscape for Learning campus enhancement initiative. Construction of the stadium and field — named InfoCision Stadium and Summa Field, respectively — is scheduled to be complete for the Zips' 2009 home opener against the University of Kentucky Wildcats on Sept. 12. As in other buildings constructed in UA's ongoing campus enhancement, the stadium features a bold design of brick and glass. The stadium will be financed by a $30 million fund-raising campaign (of which $21 million already has been pledged) and bonds financed via stadium revenues. "This is an exciting time for The University of Akron, and fans of Zips football," says UA President Luis M. Proenza. "An on-campus football stadium is one of the cornerstone facilities that will enhance the collegiate experience. This new facility will create a game-day atmosphere that will generate a new level of excitement, spirit and pride for the University and Zips athletics." UA Board Chair Dr. William F. Demas says, "We are extending our New Landscape for Learning initiative into its second phase by moving forward with the campus stadium project. Our fans and community members have been asking for this for a long time, and we have found a way to make the dream come true. "Not only will the stadium provide a proud home to the Akron Zips football team," he adds, "it will provide countless opportunities to our students and to the community by hosting special events, intramural and high school sports, and various recreational activities."

Details about the stadium released today include:

• Capacity of 30,000, with the possibility of end-zone seats added in the future;
• End-zone grass berm seating;
• A club level with seating for 486;
• 172 open-air loge seats;
• 15 private suites with seating for 16 each, and a President's Suite with seating for 75;
• 300 ADA seat locations;
• 21 heated restrooms with ADA access and baby-changing stations;
• A state-of-the-art scoreboard with video screen, and a sound system with speakers throughout the stadium, concourse and restrooms;
• 10 concession locations, a full team shop, a second merchandise location, a ticket office and two auxiliary ticket booths;
• Academic classrooms and labs that will be in use six days per week; and
• Rooms for academic advising and tutoring for student-athletes.

The condition of the aging Rubber Bowl and the rising costs of maintenance or refurbishing of the facility to modern-day standards made the decision to build a new stadium a necessity, according to Mack Rhoades, UA director of athletics."This elite facility will be a wonderful destination for Zips fans of all ages, and I expect it will gain attention and admiration not just throughout the Mid-American Conference, but nationwide as well," Rhoades says. "More importantly, it will provide a great benefit to the University, the athletics department and the football program."The Rubber Bowl has been a landmark in our community," he adds. "But a recent poll of our season ticket holders showed that the location, condition and amenities of this facility are discouraging fans from attending games and enjoying what should be a great family experience. "I believe this on-campus facility will be a great change in our campus culture. There are few things as exciting than the atmosphere surrounding a college football game day," Rhoades says. "To have 30,000 people walking around our campus, seeing kids throwing a football in parking lots and grass areas, and the smell of food from tailgating is one of those quintessential collegiate experiences."

[RACER]

wake up!!unfortunatley losing is also part of our culture.if you think the new stadium is going to solve the attendance probelms good luc casue it's not.nobody is going to go out in thirty degree weather to see a lsoing team no matter if it's the ruber bowl,or new stadium.

[bUAkronG]

I agree. I wish we got more attendance. It's unfortunate because what people don't realize is that MAC play is some of the most competitive in all of the d-1 conferences(who called last night's win by Eastern over Central Michigan???). Sure, we can't compete with schools in the SEC but they've already built their tradition. That being said, I am happy to say that I went to every home game this year. I love that it is free to students, and Akron is helping out by giving discounted tickets to those who are accompanied by one of us! But I kind of disagree. Free tickets will help attendance a little but no one wants to support a team that isn't that great!Look at our basketball team. Last year we were great, and the JAR was packed every game towards the end of the season. Free tickets or not.

[uafan]

She said, "Marketing the MAC is like being the Director of Marketing at Dollar General. You can get people to shop once, but once they see the crap you are selling, they don't want to come back." I first thought, "OMG, I'm going to agree with GP1!" But then I realized that I am actually agreeing with his wife! I will agree with him that his wife is smarter than he is.The new stadium will help for one seaqson, but untill we get a consistent winner, they will not come back.

[Valpo Zip]

The problem here is two fold, #1 bad product & #2 lack of loyalty. Comparing the MAC to Dollar general is not very accurate IMHO. When it comes to shopping, people choose the best place with the best product with the cheaper prices. If i shop at Giant eagle for 10 years and than find a better place, i will start shopping at that other place (no shame). On the other side, when you're a fan of a team, you don't switch loyalty the day you find a better team. If that was the case, all the NBA fans would be cheering for the spurs and the MLB fans for the red sox and so on.A more accurate analogy would be: say your son or brother or best friend etc... owns a dollar general. And you know that you can get better stuff at Walmart, would you still shop at your son's DG or not?While we all know about the problem #1, bad product, MAC is horrible etc...we seem to underestimate the second problem. I will give you my personnal experience as an example. My brother in law, born and raised in akron, is a zip 2002 alumni. He is a huge football and basketball fan. He is willing to travel to Columbus, illinois, wisconsin, or minnisoeta every time he can get a buckeye ticket, but not the zips playing across the street.Me, on the other side, i am a foreigner (born and raised over seas, and came to akron as an international student). If anything, this should make my brother-in-law 10 times more loyal to Akron than i am. Why do i bleed blue and gold and he can care less about them? Here is why...When he went to school, he was working full-time in canton, the campus was a very boring place. he used to go to school only for classes and leave immediately. He doesn't remember seeing a buzz around campus when the zips were playing anything. He was never involved in any zips student organizations. The only thing he can remember about Akron is the classroom. And before you say anything, he is not a nerd or anything like that. He is a very bright and extremely nice guy but this was the case with 95% of the older zips alum. When i went to school, after he graduated, i lived near campus. I worked on campus. We had an extremely nice brand new student union were i was hanging out with my ZIPS friends. I was a member of the ak-rowdies. I have invaluable memories about trips and pep rallies and great relationships with people who work for the athletic deparment. I was a regular reader of rasor's edge in the Buchtelite. The trips to the Q (3 Mac tournaments) and the MCB are my best school memories (not class rooms).Can you see the difference? the zips are now like my son who owns the DG store. I am not looking for the best product out there. I want to help my son.Now akron graduates around 5000 students/year. If 20% of those people are loyal to their Alma mater, we have 20000 people from the last 20 years classes. We don't need the casual fan who is looking for the best football game (product).My advice, if we cannot fix problem #1, we can definitely fix #2. It starts with students. They have to feel that this is their school, their son. The great new campus helps a lot, the buchtelite should be always loaded with zips stories, and the Ak-rowdies organization... this is IMHO the best thing to happen for Akron athletics ever. The AD should keep pumping the money, a lot of bus trips to away games, a lot of pep rallies hoping for loyal alum classes in the near future.

[Lee Adams]

We talk a lot on this board about why people don't go to Akron, or even MAC games (with the exception of Temple who just broke the MAC single season attendance record). A lot of blame gets pointed at the Marketing Department or the commissioner of the MAC. Here is another way of looking at it....Last night my wife, who is infinitely smarter than I am, which makes her even that much smarter than everyone else on this board, made a really good point to me about why people don't go to MAC games. She doesn't put much blame on marketing departments or the MAC. She said, "Marketing the MAC is like being the Director of Marketing at Dollar General. You can get people to shop once, but once they see the crap you are selling, they don't want to come back." After that game Wednesday night, I don't see much fault in her logic.Unfortunately, Akron, and most MAC schools, can get people to fill a stadium when they give out free tickets. We've seen that for years at UofA. Even when they have been good, people still do not see the value in spending a lot of money to go see the product. Since people don't want to spend the money, we get a Dollar General type product thrown at us. Miami needed a win against UofA to help forward their chances to make the MACC and nobody went to the game. Why would anyone go to a game where the potential winner of a conference could potentially win the league with 5-6 loses?Now that the MAC is back to what it was during the pre-Marshall days, it is only going to get worse. It is just a bad league.I love the MAC and want it to get better. Now that I'm away from it and can look at it more objectively, I'm not certain it can be any more than what it is right now. That's too bad.Have a good weekend everyone.

to paraphrase an old TV show...your wife is wise beyond her height...IF the ZIPS were 8-3 consistently and beating the best teams in the MAC you could play on the runway at Fulton AP and draw at least 20K...when you can't beat Temple and are only .500 or worse in your conference you are INSIGNIFICANT...

[Lee Adams]

The problem here is two fold, #1 bad product & #2 lack of loyalty. Comparing the MAC to Dollar general is not very accurate IMHO. When it comes to shopping, people choose the best place with the best product with the cheaper prices. If i shop at Giant eagle for 10 years and than find a better place, i will start shopping at that other place (no shame). On the other side, when you're a fan of a team, you don't switch loyalty the day you find a better team. If that was the case, all the NBA fans would be cheering for the spurs and the MLB fans for the red sox and so on.A more accurate analogy would be: say your son or brother or best friend etc... owns a dollar general. And you know that you can get better stuff at Walmart, would you still shop at your son's DG or not?While we all know about the problem #1, bad product, MAC is horrible etc...we seem to underestimate the second problem. I will give you my personnal experience as an example. My brother in law, born and raised in akron, is a zip 2002 alumni. He is a huge football and basketball fan. He is willing to travel to Columbus, illinois, wisconsin, or minnisoeta every time he can get a buckeye ticket, but not the zips playing across the street.Me, on the other side, i am a foreigner (born and raised over seas, and came to akron as an international student). If anything, this should make my brother-in-law 10 times more loyal to Akron than i am. Why do i bleed blue and gold and he can care less about them? Here is why...When he went to school, he was working full-time in canton, the campus was a very boring place. he used to go to school only for classes and leave immediately. He doesn't remember seeing a buzz around campus when the zips were playing anything. He was never involved in any zips student organizations. The only thing he can remember about Akron is the classroom. And before you say anything, he is not a nerd or anything like that. He is a very bright and extremely nice guy but this was the case with 95% of the older zips alum. When i went to school, after he graduated, i lived near campus. I worked on campus. We had an extremely nice brand new student union were i was hanging out with my ZIPS friends. I was a member of the ak-rowdies. I have invaluable memories about trips and pep rallies and great relationships with people who work for the athletic deparment. I was a regular reader of rasor's edge in the Buchtelite. The trips to the Q (3 Mac tournaments) and the MCB are my best school memories (not class rooms).Can you see the difference? the zips are now like my son who owns the DG store. I am not looking for the best product out there. I want to help my son.Now akron graduates around 5000 students/year. If 20% of those people are loyal to their Alma mater, we have 20000 people from the last 20 years classes. We don't need the casual fan who is looking for the best football game (product).My advice, if we cannot fix problem #1, we can definitely fix #2. It starts with students. They have to feel that this is their school, their son. The great new campus helps a lot, the buchtelite should be always loaded with zips stories, and the Ak-rowdies organization... this is IMHO the best thing to happen for Akron athletics ever. The AD should keep pumping the money, a lot of bus trips to away games, a lot of pep rallies hoping for loyal alum classes in the near future.

and 2-3 years after the new stadium opens the Zips will be drawing squat if they keep putting a bad team on the field!

[Lee Adams]

wake up!!unfortunatley losing is also part of our culture.if you think the new stadium is going to solve the attendance probelms good luc casue it's not.nobody is going to go out in thirty degree weather to see a lsoing team no matter if it's the ruber bowl,or new stadium.

Thank you RACER...RIGHT ON!

[ZachTheZip]

2005 raised expectations. That MAC championship was possibly the best thing to ever happen to the program, because we will no longer accept mediocrity. It gave us a glimpse of what could be. Now that we've seen it, there's no going back. The fans NEED to let UA know what we think. We need to make them hear us, and tell them that we want a winning team NOW, not in some far off future year that will never arrive after we go through an endless building process. Temple and Buffalo are improving at a dramatic rate, why aren't we? The more we watch this team without saying what we really think to the people who don't want to hear it, the more te administration is fooled into thinking that we are content with what we have, and they don't have to actually expend any effort. Go to the games, but be vocal. If you don't show up, they can't hear you. Let them know when we don't like what we're seeing. UA has too many people show up and then just sit on their ass the whole game, not making one peep, and only clapping a few times when everyone else is doing it (this part goes for basketball, too). Now I'm glad they are there, but they are not passionate. The student section has impressed me a few times this year, but they still don't have the numbers to take a stand and let everyone in the stadium know when they don't like what they see on the field. Personally, I scream and yell, and boo whenever we do that stupid sideways offense. Many others do too, but it's not enough. We can all see the inherent failure that exists within those plays, but as many have said, coaches would rather be right than win. It would take a shock to their system to get them to change, no matter how horrible the playcalling is.Attendance will suffer next year with another horrible schedule an the AD pushes home games away until the new stadium is built, but the resulting bad records will keep away recruits that would provide the foundation to make the team as good as the stadium they will play in.I'm going to be there, and be vocal. They'll know when I don't like what I see. I only hope the rest of the fanbase has the stones to be vocal with me.

[skip-zip]

Let me try to simplify this a bit, from someone who has seen everything that has happened to this football program for nearly 3 decades.I have often pondered the reason or poor attendance.At one time, I thought it was due to lack of high-level competition, until I saw only 12,000 people show up for a game against Virginia Tech at the Rubber Bowl.Is it that we aren't winning? Well, 3 years ago we were playing Miami in the season finale for the right to go to the MAC title game. And once again, the crowd was dissappointing. I even left an Ohio State / Michigan party to go to that game, and most of the people at the party looked at me like I was crazy.Which leads me to my final analysis.....There's only going to be so many people that are interested in a football program that does not compete on a NATIONAL level. So, unfortunately for us, most people in this area have much more interest in sitting in front of the TV watching #6 play #9 on a Saturday night.Until we someday reach that level, the challenge of getting more people interested in Akron football will be limited. So, please stop with the "facilities" argument. If we were a nationally-ranked football program, the Rubber Bowl would be packed.

[eguins]

Listen, I know you guys get sick of me posting about YSU on here, but you ever stop to think why we average 16,500-17,000 per year every year? It's because we win. Other FCS teams like Appy State, Montana, and Delaware all sell out their 21,000+ seat stadiums because they win. And if we were in the MAC, believe it or not, we'd probably sell out every game. You think we like seeing Lock Haven or S. Utah play here? HELL NO. We want to see Can't or Akron or Ohio come here. But we know it won't happen, but since we win, our fans come out and still support our team.If you guys can get a winner in Akron, there is no doubt in my mind you will see 30,000 people at your guys, you certainly have the population to get that! But one thing I think a lot of you Zip fans are doing in thinking a little to optimistically. Yes I think your attendance will go up with Infocision Stadium, but you will not magically get 30,000 at every game all of a sudden. You need to win to make that happen.This is not me being a bitch about UA sports at all, it's me giving you a realistic perspective of what you will see. I'd LOVE to see Akron become a winner and pack your new stadium, but you guys need to win first. Do you really think had that game 2 weeks ago on ESPN2 been in Infocision Stadium there would've been 30,000 people there???? NO. There is a reason there was less than 5,000 there, because you are lacking a winner and because it was freezing cold!Anyways good luck this year in your basketball season, YSU has you the 21st of December. I will be there! www.guinzone.com

[zipboy]

Let me try to simplify this a bit, from someone who has seen everything that has happened to this football program for nearly 3 decades.I have often pondered the reason or poor attendance.At one time, I thought it was due to lack of high-level competition, until I saw only 12,000 people show up for a game against Virginia Tech at the Rubber Bowl.Is it that we aren't winning? Well, 3 years ago we were playing Miami in the season finale for the right to go to the MAC title game. And once again, the crowd was dissappointing. I even left an Ohio State / Michigan party to go to that game, and most of the people at the party looked at me like I was crazy.Which leads me to my final analysis.....There's only going to be so many people that are interested in a football program that does not compete on a NATIONAL level. So, unfortunately for us, most people in this area have much more interest in sitting in front of the TV watching #6 play #9 on a Saturday night.Until we someday reach that level, the challenge of getting more people interested in Akron football will be limited. So, please stop with the "facilities" argument. If we were a nationally-ranked football program, the Rubber Bowl would be packed.

Cincinnati is a great example of that. 35K last night on ESPN. Before this year, they never drew that much in football.

[GP1]

All good points.A lot of the solutions come down to winning. I'm not certain that is the problem. Miami is on the brink of going to the MACC (actually, I think they got in yesterday) and there was not anyone at the game Wednesday.When I go to MAC games, I see a lot of very average talent o the field compared to what I could see at a Big East or even ACC game. I think when the average person looks at the MAC, the talent (product) just falls inches short of what they would expect for them to spend a day of their life and money to go see. They certainly wouldn't spend a lot of money to go see it. MAC players are much more likely to drop a pass or slip and fall or just really do something stupid. That really isn't good entertainment.The reason the MAC needs to play on Wednesday and Tuesday nights is nobody wants to watch it. ESPN needs to fill air space and promote it's Saturday ESPN/ABC line-up. The MAC makes good filler. If it was a better product, ESPN would show it on Saturdays.

[skip-zip]

zipboy....Cincinnati is a GREAT example. A few years ago, nobody went to a Cincinnati football game. And they were in a similar situation to us (in Ohio State's backyard, and in a large city). It's amazing what happens once people start to recognize you as someone who can compete on a national level. That changed everything for them.

[jcv1]

zipboy....Cincinnati is a GREAT example. A few years ago, nobody went to a Cincinnati football game. And they were in a similar situation to us (in Ohio State's backyard, and in a large city). It's amazing what happens once people start to recognize you as someone who can compete on a national level. That changed everything for them.

And a large part of the turnaround for Cincinnati was getting into the Big East, a BCS conference which the MAC never will be. If AKron wants to compete with the big boys, they have to play the big boys and get in a conference (easier said than done) that allows more exposure. After that, we have to get better quality kids to come here, both in talent and in citizenship. With the discipline problems this year and the defections of recruits, the program looks to be in deep sh__ for the next couple years. I don't think getting creamed by Kentucky in the opening game of the new stadium will help things, either. We can't be satisfied with playing a big time programs once in a while, we have to win those games for people to even start paying attention to the scores and then they'll want to come out and see the product.

[RACER]

akron does not have the $$$ to compete nationally year in year out.no mac teams do.the bcs teams have huge tv deals.still there is no reason we cannot get 25k in the stands everygame.the key is to start winning.the year we won the mac we had 15 k go to detroit;so that proves people will show up.you cannot go 7-5 then have two losing seasons in a row losing to temple/ buffalo ect.no one is going to sit in cold weather to see a team lose to buffalo.the marketing has a bad product but they do themselves no favors with some of the things they have done to the season ticket holders.

[ZippyRulz]

12. How will a new stadium benefit the University and its students?

An on-campus football stadium can dramatically enhance the collegiate experience. By making it easier for students to attend games, concerts and events, an on-campus stadium raises the level of excitement, spirit and pride for the University and the community. That, in turn, encourages alumni involvement.Among the benefits UA anticipates from the stadium are:

• Enhanced recruitment and retention of students. A new on-campus stadium and related facilities will be a focal point for visitors and potential students and their families. Prospective students who are attracted by UA's excellent academic programs will see in this stadium, as well as in our other campus enhancements, the opportunity for an outstanding campus life experience. It also will further engage current students, giving them more opportunities to spend time on campus.
• Success in recruiting talented student-athletes. Student-athletes have a vested interest in the quality of the home venues where they will compete. A modern, state-of-the-art football stadium, in conjunction with outstanding facilities like the Student Recreation and Wellness Center and the Stile Athletics Field House, clearly will have an immediate and lasting impact on recruits for all sports, especially football.
• Improved success in attracting big-name, non-conference football opponents. The new stadium will be an enticing factor for non-conference football programs to make the trip to Akron to be a part of the excitement surrounding Zips football. This in turn will positively affect recruitment, boost fan support and increase revenues related to the facility.
• Creation of a game-day tradition. Game-day traditions add to campus life in a way few other events can match. Zips football games will become "must-see" events, bringing students, their families, visitors, alumni and the entire Akron community together throughout the fall season.
• A proud image of Zips athletics and the entire campus. A new stadium will provide an engaging "front door" to our campus, instilling a new wave of student, faculty, staff, alumni and community pride.

[Lone Zip in Col]

12. How will a new stadium benefit the University and its students?

Success in recruiting talented student-athletes. Student-athletes have a vested interest in the quality of the home venues where they will compete. A modern, state-of-the-art football stadium, in conjunction with outstanding facilities like the Student Recreation and Wellness Center and the Stile Athletics Field House, clearly will have an immediate and lasting impact on recruits for all sports, especially football.

No doubt we need to put a winning team on the field in order to help attendance and the new stadium will certainly help. Obviously the current home for Zips football kills our recruiting. Seriously, why would a high school recruit up until this year pick Akron over any school, let alone another MAC program? The RB is outdated, broken down, and located serveral miles off campus. I remember high school players complaining about playing playoff games in the RB in the 80s. There have been posts on this board in the past discussing that high school coaches in the area been advising their current players to look elsewhere because Akron did not take its program seriously.With the only new stadium in the MAC scheduled for construction (that I'm aware of), I don't see the same hurdles. JD's strengths are in sales so he now has a lot more ammunition when going on the recruiting hunt. The MAC is pretty bad and not much separates us from the top. The future looks good.

[zipsbandman]

The zips football program looks like total crap right now in every category, on the field and in the stands. I do not see the problem continuing long term. There is a lot of Akron alumni who can care less about the zips because when they went to school Akron was a glorified community college, but that is not the case any more. We are building an alumni base that will be the foundation of future support. There are people taking pride in the school. The new stadium is another piece of the puzzle. Not to mention that Akron will in a few years have 5000 students living on campus with thousands more living in apartments next to campus right by the new stadium which is right next to the best practice facility in the MAC. If I'm an aspiring coach or recruit, I seriously need to give Akron a look. On paper, I just cannot see how we do not become a perennial MAC power. Who can really compete with all that LP is doing for us? Right now, it all comes down to finding the right guy to lead this team and take advantage of what is there. Maybe JD is that guy or maybe not.

[Z.I.P.]

A new era is dawning for The University of Akron and its football program. At its regular meeting today, the University's Board of Trustees approved the financing and construction plans for a $55 million, on-campus football stadium as part of the second phase of the New Landscape for Learning campus enhancement initiative.

If they would take just one of those 55 millions, and put it into coaching salaries, they would get as much, if not more bang. As it is, they are depending on selling out the new FB stadium to keep the old jalopy from breaking down permanently. Yeah, it might look bright and shiny to you, but it's a jalopy nonetheless.