VCU gone from NIT

[Zip Watcher]

After all that yapping about how beneath them we were for the BB game .. VCU makes a quick exit from the NIT at home.

[Zip Watcher]

Tulsa also does in Miami sans-Bramos. Gotta believe he would have made a difference in that game. Miami had been playing really well of late.

[ZachTheZip]

A shame Miami lost. I was hoping for a OU-Miami matchup for the 4th time this season. It hurts the MAC, and now we'll have to listen to WMU whine even more about how they "should have gotten in" over other MAC teams.

[Captain Kangaroo]

and now we'll have to listen to WMU whine even more about how they "should have gotten in" over other MAC teams.

2006-7 Zips fan calling the 2007-8 WMU "kettle" black?

[jeaglet1]

I dont think so Captain. Last year, the Zips had the resume for inclusion in a Tournament. For Western's coach to complain about two teams (OU and Miami) who were ranked 40 and 50 spots ahead of him in the RPI, with much tougher SOS, and very similar records is comical to me. It's people complaining in this type situation that makes legitimate complaints sound like "whining". Just my two cents...

[zen]

complaining ALWAYS sounds like whining if you don't agree with the complaint

[GoZips88]

WMU coach Steve Hawkins does seem to work the officials a fair amount during a game. I doubt he's pointing out how Reitz lowers his shoulder to clear space and rarely gets called for it. I know Hawkins burned a lot of time during timeouts against Akron in the MAC tourney pleading his case to the officials. Haven't followed WMU's post-season hissy fit but it sounds like just more of the same from Hawkins.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I dont think so Captain. Last year, the Zips had the resume for inclusion in a Tournament. For Western's coach to complain about two teams (OU and Miami) who were ranked 40 and 50 spots ahead of him in the RPI, with much tougher SOS, and very similar records is comical to me. It's people complaining in this type situation that makes legitimate complaints sound like "whining". Just my two cents...

Our low 2006-7 RPI and SOS were a key factors in us not getting into the NIT.WMU beat Pepperdine, beat Davidson (Top 25), beat Southern Illinois, beat AKRON...for them to claim they're equal, or more deserving than OU or Miami (neither of whom beat the Zips in 2007-8) is hardly "whining." They were a very good ball club in 2007-8.I don't think the MAC will ever get respect nationally...it seems even the people most-familiar with the conference don't give it's better teams any respect. How can we expect someone in Des Moines or Birmingham to do so?

[skip-zip]

This is another part of the argument that we will see go on for years. Whenever a team does not have a strong RPI or SOS, they point towards their key wins. And WMU does have some really good wins on their resume. Unfortunately for them, they play in the MAC West, which kills their overall SOS. If any of you watched the interview with the NCAA Selection committee chair last Sunday, you hopefully noticed how much he mentioned OOC SOS. We need to listen to those kinds of things.

[HOLLYWOODZIPPY]

I don't think the MAC will ever get respect nationally...it seems even the people most-familiar with the conference don't give it's better teams any respect. How can we expect someone in Des Moines or Birmingham to do so?

I have to disagree to some extent with this. Growing up in the south in the heart of SEC country, the MAC was always the proverbial "Mid-Major" I was always most concerned about. That goes for basketball and football. I think compared to other conferences the MAC is in that gray area between suck and good. Here's an exampleOVC, Ivy League-suckMAC, A10, Missouri Valley-ehACC, SEC, Big East-good Cool thing about the "eh" teams is they can step up and beat the good teams on any given night. Bad thing is the suck teams can beat the "eh" teams too. I like where we are, it kind of allows us to fly under the radar a little. (i.e. Tuesday night)

[Valpo Zip]

WMU not being invited to a postseason tournament is not even comparable to our snub last year.We were 26-7, they are 20-12. We play in the Mac East, they play in the west.We lost our tournament final on a prayer shot, they didn't even make it to the final.As far as their schedule, they were so inconsistent they did beat a couple of half decent teams but they got killed by some of the absolutely worst teams:1- Lost to RPI 223 northwestern at home2- Lost to RPI 224 Iona3- Lost to RPI 237 EMUI don't remember us losing to any team with RPI 200+ last year. And also their RPI is a freaking 119 while ours (last year) was 67.This comparison is not even valid.

[Captain Kangaroo]

WMU not being invited to a postseason tournament is not even comparable to our snub last year.We were 26-7, they are 20-12. We play in the Mac East, they play in the west.We lost our tournament final on a prayer shot, they didn't even make it to the final.As far as their schedule, they were so inconsistent they did beat a couple of half decent teams but they got killed by some of the absolutely worst teams:1- Lost to RPI 223 northwestern at home2- Lost to RPI 224 Iona3- Lost to RPI 237 EMUI don't remember us losing to any team with RPI 200+ last year. And also their RPI is a freaking 119 while ours (last year) was 67.This comparison is not even valid.

If you can't see that WMU would have a legit gripe being left out of this year's post season, after their 20-win season where they beat a top-25 team, beat Akron (NIT) by 20 and beat Miami (CBI)...you'll never "get it."

[Valpo Zip]

WMU not being invited to a postseason tournament is not even comparable to our snub last year.We were 26-7, they are 20-12. We play in the Mac East, they play in the west.We lost our tournament final on a prayer shot, they didn't even make it to the final.As far as their schedule, they were so inconsistent they did beat a couple of half decent teams but they got killed by some of the absolutely worst teams:1- Lost to RPI 223 northwestern at home2- Lost to RPI 224 Iona3- Lost to RPI 237 EMUI don't remember us losing to any team with RPI 200+ last year. And also their RPI is a freaking 119 while ours (last year) was 67.This comparison is not even valid.

If you can't see that WMU would have a legit gripe being left out of this year's post season, after their 20-win season where they beat a top-25 team, beat Akron (NIT) by 20 and beat Miami (CBI)...you'll never "get it."

I guess i "won't."They did beat 3 good teams and they also lost to 3 horrible teams. Their RPI is terrible. Is there any team with a lower RPI than them who got an at-large?

[skip-zip]

This is always the time of the year where these debates come to the forefront. Personally, although the 07 Zips and the 08 WMU team both had weak SOSs, the difference between having 12 losses and 7 losses is a pretty significant difference that can't be overlooked. If WMU has any leg to stand on, it's that they had a couple of good wins. But, that's not going to overcome having 12 losses with their SOS. I'm with skhorbotly on this one.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Personally, although the 07 Zips and the 08 WMU team both had weak SOSs, the difference between having 12 losses and 7 losses is a pretty significant difference that can't be overlooked.

If that were any part of the debate, you might have a point. But it isn't.The debate is: "Does WMU have a legit gripe regarding no being in the post season?"To state that a 20-win MAC team, with a top 25 win, who has several wins over tourney teams, is "whining" is ludicrous. Especially coming from a Zips/MAC fan only one year removed from a snub. And only a month-or-so away from losing to them by 20.

[jeaglet1]

I guess the thing that rubs me the wrong way about the way Hawkins went about it, was he was ripping on teams within his own conference who (arguably) had better resumes. I wouldnt mind so much if he were complaining about WMU being left out in favor of Cincinnatti (13-18 / RPI 117), Virginia (15-15 / RPI 127), Old Dominion (17-15, RPI 128) or Washington (16-16 / RPI 121).As for 08 WMU / 07 UA, its tough to argue the level of snub between two tourny's. I just dont consider them a snub when comparing them to the teams he was complaining about.2007-08 Western Michigan (20-12, 13-5)RPI: 118SOS: 217Best Wins: Southern Ill. (62) & Davidson (34)Worst Losses: Northwestern (223) & @ Eastern (237)2006-07 Akron Zips (25-7, 15-4)RPI: 66SOS: 177Best Wins: @ Can't (87) & @Oral Roberts (89)Worst Losses: @ Arkansas LR (227) & @ Illinois-Chicago (162)