How high will Charlie go in the draft?

[JP Morgan]

Listening to my favorite morning show today (ESPN - Mike and Mike) and they had Mel Kiper Jr. again as a guest.

The topic of quarterbacks in the 2005 draft again came up. Kiper seems to think that following will be the first three QB's taken (in this order):

1. Matt Leinart (USC) top 10 pick

2. Aaron Rogers (Cal) top 10 pick

3. Charlie Frye (Akron) late first round pick

Kiper also said that Frye could increase his stock if he has a good senior bowl. He said that Phillip Rivers wasn't on the "draft map" last year until people saw him at the senior bowl practices and he shot right up into the top 10.

Also, thought you might find this interesting:

Top Five at the QB position

[GoZips]

JP, thanks for a nice "heads up"

While Charlie probably is the best QB in the up coming draft, if recent history is any indicator Charlie will be selected late in the first round. While some draft analysts are suggesting early second round they are overlooking the needs of one team in particular.

If the decision makers of various NFL teams truly did their homework, Charlie would be gone in the first five selections. Because he really is the best QB. However, ignorance and prejudice usually trump intelligence and need.

Several teams badly in need of his services will pass on selecting him in favor of lesser QBs or other position needs. But, one team that drafts late in the first round has their collective eye on Charlie. They know he will not be available late in the second round. Thus, the Green Bay Packers WILL select Charlie with their pick in the first round.

No other QB in the draft matches the skill set and athleticism of Brett Farve like Charlie Frye. Thus, look for Green Bay to do their homework and take Charlie in round one.

[Dr Z]

I think the team that gets Dan Orlovsky makes out too.

Only QB I have seen on a field with Charlie that looked better than him that particular day.

I'm looking forward to watching Charlie in the Senor Bowl.

[Kangaroo Craig]

Mel Kiper Jr. currently has Charlie Frye rated as the 17th best overall prospect. He is rated the top overall quarterback. I believe that this list includes only the players who are either seniors or are underclassmen who have declared themselves eligible for next years draft. The only underclassman currently listed is SC's Mike Williams, who as we all know, got screwed by following the lead of Maurice Clarrett. Here is the link to Mel's list:

http://espn.go.com/melkiper/

[Z-P]

Hey Guys..............

Let's not get too geeked up and noisy about this draft status thing. Are you wanting him to go first for you (selfishly so you can brag to buddies) or for him? I say let him get passed over for a while before being picked.

I think a player can be set up for disaster by thinking too highly of himself (courtesy of all the yes men surrounding him all the time) or expecting too much. I remember comments out of Big Ben's possee last year that he got "bummed out" and pissed when he was passed over for Phillip and Eli. Now look how stupid a thought that turned out to be.

Superman will be selected. I for one hope it's not to high or too early. High and early carries with it a load of expectations and demands upon a guy like Tim Couch experienced and may have led to his early crash.

Here's to a big payday, a nice team giving him the chance to further develope and a real shot in his second or third year.

And here's to him staying healthy for a change!

[GP1]

I hope all of you are correct. A lot still depends on who comes out early this year and how others and 5 do in their bowl games. Try outs will also be important.

I don't know how the coaching staffs work at the bowls he is playing in, but if JD could get on the staff of his team I think it would help his confidence in the game. I think JD was a strong pole for 5 to lean on last year when things weren't going well.

Right now, 5 is not the flushy pick and he could get over looked. A couple of things that may make scouts shy away is the significant decline in passing yards from 2003 (3,549) to 2004 (approximately 2,650). The decline happened in a pro style offense. I know there were changes in players, one less game and no I-AA teams on the schedule, but 1,000 yards is a bunch. In fact, it is about a 25% reduction.

Also, he was not able to show what he can really do because he was running for his life. Which leads me to another point. If he didn't get the chance to show what he can do, how can Kiper make the comments he does? And, how do any of us know how he will do? I certainly don't, but I have my suspicions. The bad news for 5 is that Kiper is the only guy who can be as frequently wrong as he is and still keep a job.

One thing Big Ben is proving right now is that more than anything, NFL teams need winners. For whatever reason, when Ben steps on the field, his teams win. They don't play for fun in the NFL, they play to win. Some teams may look at 5 and say, "Only 21 wins in four years and only 19 wins against D-I teams. Can this guy win? Will our fans have a fit if we draft a guy from Akron?" I don't know the answer to that either as I am just a guy with a computer and a key board, but I'm looking at the press guide now and I don't see any really big wins. In fact, there are some losses that really stick out more than wins. Losses that a great player can single handedly win did not happen. We all like to point to the two Marshall wins, but my guess is that Limpwich would have found a way to beat us on two good wheels in 2002, I'd like to kid myself into believing differently, but I can't. Limpy was too good of a player and won too many games to let that one get away. The win we had against Marshall this year was against a vastly inferior team to what Marshall has put onto the field in the past.

Finally, every Zip in recent memory who has made the NFL has been the best player on the team. For example, Dwight Smith (the greatest football player to put on a Zips uniform) and Jason Taylor were the two best players on the teams their final year. Was 5 the best player on the team this year? I personally think Biggs had a significantly greater impact on the team this year than 5. He carried the team to 5 of their 6 wins and they were a completely different team with him in the starting line up. I would like to know how many Division I-A QBs had at least 2,600 yards. My guess is that at least half did.

Anyhow, the bottom line is that 5 is going to make an NFL team and make a Hell of a lot of money whether he ever plays or not. I only have one thing to say about that.......GOOD FOR HIM AND SEND MONEY BACK TO U OF A.

[Zips Win!]

Spoken like a true Redhawk fan.

[GP1]

I'm a huge Zips fan just trying to inject a different spin other than the normal stuff we read on zipsnation.org/welovecharlie/heisthegreatest/footballplayer/ever/atanyschool/howwillweever/getanother/six/winqb

[Dave in Green]

The best pro prospects don't always have the best college statistics. The best pro scouts know how to compensate for the strengths and weaknesses of the supporting cast when evaluating the performance of a potential draft choice. The Roethlisberger factor could not be timed better for the benefit of Charlie Frye.

[Guest Knute]

In the years I have followed this board the post by GP1 from above proves that anyone with a working digit on one hand can type in outrageous and factless remarks. Glory be to the Consititution for giving him this freedom but good god almight please wake up from the drug fog you are mired in.

AKRON would have gone 0-11 this season without Frye. Biggs, while a nice back, had 4 good games and was a non-factor in 7 others. Why? A crap OL who could not block in 2004... 2003... 2002.... and so on.

NFL scouts watch film on Frye every day in JAR. They talk wth coaches from Akron U and from other teams who have played against him. If he can put up the "25% less" numbers with the Sanford & Son bunch he had around him this year in a new offense (upgraded from last years draw in the dirt CYO special) he should have been the damn Heisman winner.

[GP1]

Wow Knute, the holiday season must really be getting to you. Waiting till the last minute to do your Christmas shopping must be causing a nervous breakdown for you.

I also agree that it is great that the Constitution allows you to respond hysterically to my posts. Knute, it is truely an honor to have the greatest college football coach ever respond to my posts from the grave. I would like to take a minute to say sorry about that plane crash in Kansas in 1931. So much for the luck of the Irish.

If you read my post carefully, you will see that I admit that Charlie is an NFL player. I only question how high he will go in the draft and whether the lack of winning in college will impact his draft position. I also don't say that he can't win in the NFL. The truth of it is that we really don't know what he can do. He may be a flop or he may be a star but we really don't know as is the case with the vast majority of draft picks. Time will tell.

I also agree that the lack of OL significantly (read my original post) hurt his performance last year and in fact did not allow him to show his true abilities. CYO special is a compliment to what we saw in 2001-03. I would refer to it as a disaster myself. I don't think it is unreasonable to look at the third QB drafted in the draft going maybe in the second round depending on what teams need. The later he goes in the first round the less ability he has to start with a team in the near future as there may be no need for him on a good team. Look what happened to Jake S. at Tennessee. A good player wasted away on the bench of a good team. If he goes early second round, he will go to a team more likely in need of a QB and improvements in talent and get the chance to play earlier.

Michigan Zips Fan makes a good point that the past MAC QBs help 5. While I agree with that, there is still the issue of winning. Pennington, Limpwich and Roethlisberger all played on winning teams. Would Roethlisberger have been selected in the first round if the team went 8-4 and lost to Marshall? I don't know, but some may have looked at it as a potential negative. The three above all won championships.

Maybe a better example of a winner doing well is Krenzel from OSU. Did anyone out there think that scrap would be able to do anything in the NFL other than make a bunch of money to pay for medical school? I didn't. The one thing he was though was a winner. Charlie has ten times the talent of CK, but we didn't see the ability to win big games.

In the end, I think we all want the same thing. A MAC Championship. Times are changing for the better for the program, but we need to establish a winning traditioin with the team. To do that we need winners on the team which is something that I haven't seen in the 15+ years I have been following the program. We have seen a lot of really good players, but no winners.

I hope that we can call Getesy a winner in the near future. We should at least be able to get 2,600 yards out of him next year.

Merry Christmas everyone!