RoyalBlu

They effectively had NIL even before NIL. A local sugar daddy endowed their basketball program for big bucks.

They don't have Groce ... or even Senderoff, which is not to say I think TK is a top 3 coach in the MAC.

I agree!!! But while there is no way of knowing, I would say, if Toledo matched Akron's success, with their infrastructure - arena, recruiting ability, location - they would be in another conference by now. Missouri Valley at the least. Perhaps even the American. Akron is still in the MAC.

As an urban university Toledo is not in really great shape. But it is still waaaaay better than Akron. I agree it is the best job in the league considering infrastructure, location, recruiting and at least a solid foundation for winning. What can't be overstated is the fact Toledo's prime recruiting areas - Columbus, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, Indianapolis - are all prime prep hoops hubs and all 3-hour drives or less. Akron stands tall with arguably the best coach in the league who has carried the league during a relative down stretch. Credit to him for taking advantage of the situation. But without his one strong financial donor, in the current portal landscape, it's tough seeing Akron even close to Toledo - all things considered. And that goes without mentioning Akron's financial woes and the enrollment issues all universities face these days. i'll take Groce over Kowalczk any day of the week .... but I'll take Toledo over Akron any day of the week as well. Tough to say that living in Northeast Ohio, but in terms of college basketball, I stand by it.

Frankly, I don't believe ANY team in the MAC is playing the type of quality defense that consistetly holds teams below their scoring averages or shooting percentages. More and more it's the NBA style of getting up as many shots as possible as quick as possible. I haven't looked, but I would suspect there have been 3 or 4 Akron games already this season where BOTH teams have shot 48-percent or better FG in a game and many game where both have shot 38-percent or better on 3-pointers. Lockdown Defense is just not the priority it was for success like in the recent past. You're lucky if teams can man-up the last four minutes to get a victory.

Agree it's a rough start for UMass, but I wouldn't completely write them off just yet, although an 0-3 start to the MAC season (BG next) is very possible. Problem with UMass -- like any team switching leagues (remember Akron from the Mid-Con to the MAC???) -- is adapting to the style of play, particularly against the elite teams. Simply put, like most MAC teams not named Akron, Miami, or Toledo, UMass does not have enough shooters on their roster. They will either have to lock teams up defensively, or mug teams inside to have a chance most nights. It will take them awhile to adapt. This year? Next year? Who knows. Martin is definitely old school. But I don't think he's completely over the hill. Let's see what this team looks like come February. Note: Buffalo and Kent are teams that seem to be transitioning towards Akron's style of play with more shooters on the floor. Like UMass, we'll see what those teams look like in February.

While it is true the Zips have been 'clean' many years now. Let's be careful throwing stones. Even Groce - at Ohio, Illinois and early here - has his skeletons. I believe this rivalry can stand pretty tall, especially on the basketball side, without a running morality play. Let the past stay in the past. And let's enjoy what looks at this point like two (maybe 3) monster rivalry games that highlight the season. Just my opinion.

Always open for good scuttlebutt: ... Went searching on the internet and chat-rooms and couldn't find anything - even a hint - about this or something like it. I checked KSU roster from last season and they did lose two guys, including the freshman kid from Akron. The other loss was a portal kid who started early, but was deep on the bench when he 'got hurt' during MAC play, then signed with a pro team in Brazil. He was injury prone before getting to Kent (never played a full season) so don't know how to read that one. Like above, willing to give the kid benefit of the doubt at this point.

Just curious ... wasn't up to date on Gillespie allegations. What have I missed? (Always want to be informed).

It looks like there are several teams in the MAC with decent post players: Akron, Buffalo, EMU, Kent, Toledo, Miami and maybe one more I'm missing. At some point all of them will have a game where the whistle finds them early and they are sent to the bench. It will be interesting to see how the whistle blows against all these guys as the season wears on. Lyles-Gillespie should be a classic. Frankly, I hope the officials let those two guys officiate themselves. It should be a classic.

Still a lot of MAC games to go. Based on MAC history, if UMass is indeed a top tier MAC team, a road win there will carry some weight in the standings down the stretch. Don't think Zips have to worry about that, and Kent already has come out of Amherst standing, but until the likes of Miami, Toledo, Buffalo or any other MAC contender walks out of there standing I'll take UMass at home most nights. As for Boals and TK ... still too early to write either of them off. Expect both to be above .500 on the season, albeit barely. The hot seat turns up next season, when their roster management/adjustment will be exposed as they try to improve. Also. If BG builds up a head of steam, they could be a darkhorse in this race by the end of January. Just my opinion.

I know/understand coaching goes through cycles, but it is a puzzle to me why two of the better most consistent and successful MAC programs the last decade or so -- built on a foundation of strong/solid defense (Akron and Kent) -- suddenly seem to turn into almost exclusively offensive programs with defense becoming clearly secondary. I don't get it. One look at Toledo, or Miami, should prove that is not the way to true success. Defense travels. Offense comes and goes.

That Kent State MAC home opener should be electric at UMass, Dec. 20th. Frank Martin will likely look to curb stomp the Golden Flashes to send a loud and clear message to the rest of the league!!!

Shooting 50-percent from the field, 40-percent behind the arc ... and losing by 15 to fellow mid-major is a head-scratcher. Would love to run this one back tomorrow if we could just to see if this sticks. Problem is, in two quality mid-major losses Zips have let Yale and Murray State shoot 60-percet and win. The positive is ... that's what it's going to take to get the job done against the Zips! The negative is ... it's already happened twice with 2/3rd of the season still to play.

Perhaps a bad matchup ... but a good test!!!