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Zipster Jr

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  1. Didn't get off to the usual fast start. Mainly because the Golden Flushes came out pressure man-to-man from the start and then backed off as the game wore on... we couldn't build any momentum. 24 -- Brought his game tonite. Most of the others looked nervous and tentative until it was too late. We lost -- but man, talk about bad refs. No calls were awful -- both ways... Can't fans have to be wondering too... Looked like freakin' rugby out there.. are we allowed to check players in basketball ... cause it looked a lot like hockey tonite... So we lost to the most successful program in the MAC in the last 6 years. They didn't run away and hide from us... we battled them to the end... gotta love this team... And... lest we forget.. this is only Coach Dambrot's first year A.H. (After Hipsher). It's only going to get better from here on.. Go Zips! Keep the Faith. Keep fighting.
  2. Ever just surf looking for ZIPS on the Web?? Please tell me these guys are not the new Cheerleaders for 2005!! It's the Freakin Village People!!! Cool Candy!! Cool Drive thru and Great VW Bug!!! Cool Zips Logo Another Great Diner
  3. Here's a lovely article from David Lee this morning: Several coaches upset with Akron, Can't State Neither Zips nor flushes had many local players in their recruiting classes By David Lee Morgan Jr. Some high school recruiting services gave University of Akron coach J.D. Brookhart a ``thumbs-up'' for his 2005 recruiting class. Dwayne Long, recruiting editor of Ohio High Magazine, said the Zips have one of the best recruiting classes in the Mid-American Conference. A few area high school coaches aren't as enthusiastic as Long. The Zips did not have a Summit County player among the 24 student-athletes who signed letters of intent during national signing day Wednesday. Antwon Hight, a 6-foot-3, 285-pound defensive lineman from Canton McKinley in Stark County, is the only signee in the five-county area of Summit, Stark, Portage, Medina and Wayne counties. Can't State's 2005 class of 23 was similar with just one local player, also from Stark County -- safety Jameson Konz from Lake. That's why some City Series coaches are upset. ``I think it's a travesty that the city of Akron doesn't have one player going to either Akron or Can't State,'' Buchtel coach Claude Brown said. He has six players who signed to play in college next year, going to places such as the University of Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Ohio Dominican (Columbus) College and Edinboro (Pa.) University . ``You can't tell me that Buchtel or Garfield didn't have any players who can play at Akron or Can't State,'' Brown said. Garfield coach Bob Sax thought the same as Brown. Sax said he believes that one of his players, four-year starter and first team Division II All-Ohio selection Marcus Council (5-foot-11, 190-pound cornerback), is definitely a Division I player. Council was the City Series Defensive Player of the Year and was named to the All-Beacon Journal five-county team. He is expected to play for former Zips head coach Lee Owens at Division II Ashland University. ``It's a shame that Akron or Can't State didn't offer Marcus anything,'' Sax said. ``Here is a guy who is an outstanding player and student, a four-year starter and the defensive player of the year in the league and because he runs maybe a 4.6 or 4.7 (40-yard dash) he can't play Division I? I don't agree. I can tell you this, Coach Owens said he can't believe he got Marcus.'' Akron's 2004 roster did have several area players including quarterback Brian Flaherty (Stow), linebacker/defensive back John Mackey (Walsh Jesuit), defensive back Reggie Corner (Canton McKinley), fullback Dan Basch (Walsh Jesuit), tight end Dennis Basch (Walsh Jesuit), linebacker Brandon Butler (CVCA) and defensive lineman Mark Groza (Manchester). The Zips had three players who played at Akron schools -- Bryan Howe (Ellet), Josh Smith (North) and Tim Wilkes (St. Vincent-St. Mary). Brookhart said he is definitely not overlooking the local talent pool. In fact, he said being new to Akron was not a factor because he covered Northeast Ohio in recruiting while he was previously an assistant coach at Pitt. ``We made some real efforts in the area to go after the high-caliber recruits,'' he said. ``We want to fight the recruiting battles with Pitt and West Virginia and the rest of the MAC schools. We're recruiting players who we think can help us win a MAC championship. People can say what they want, but we're sitting here with the No. 1-ranked recruiting class in the MAC.'' Said Akron athletic director Mike Thomas: ``Nothing would make us happier than to have Division I players stay at home and play for the Zips. That's our objective.'' Some of the area Division I prospects in the 2005 class who are playing elsewhere include Hoban's Tyrell Sutton (Northwestern) and Shawn Glaser (Toledo), North's Lyndon Gayle (Toledo) and St. Vincent-St. Mary's Lawrence Wilson (Ohio State). ``Lots of times the local kids want to leave home and go somewhere else to play and that's understandable,'' Thomas said. Can't State had six area players on its 2004 roster, and coach Doug Martin said he's happy with his recruiting class this year. ``We signed the third-most Ohio kids (nine) of any school in Ohio, behind Bowling Green and Ohio University,'' he said. ``When you look at it, we have no reason at all not to take a local player but at the same time, we are trying to get the best available player.'' As for addressing the issue of Akron and Can't State not signing any City Series players, Martin replied, ``That's unfair criticism. Why criticize Akron and Can't when 117 (Division I) schools passed on some of those kids?''
  4. If your looking for Tailgating poles try here... Also, Check out the door mat.. although, I don't think they're appropriate anymore!!! Zips Gear
  5. MAC Football Helmet History Lids -- We have arrived!!
  6. Most voters didn't watch the game... they're just voting for the names/schools... Pro Scouts know what they saw... If the fans answered the actual question, Charlie would run away with it... Charlie outclassed them all...
  7. Watched the entire game,... Charlie was by far the best QB on the field today... Did himself, the University and the conference proud... Way to go Charlie...
  8. Mail must have been slow .. or fax was down .. or e-mail was fried ....found tonite on MAC Web Site: Frye in Spotlight on MAC Page
  9. Was perusing the MAC web site and read all sorts of articles about Frank Solich and the Hula Bowl and the other nine MAC players in the East-West Shrine and Villages Gridiron Classic... not a single mention of Charlie in the Senior Bowl... not anywhere.. Probably be the highest drafted MAC player this season and not even a mention... Hey UAM.. did you send MAC office releases??? MAC Football Page Senior Bowl Web Page
  10. I was reading this story in Beacon and I realized, what a difference from recent history.. Both Basketball and Football now have coaches who inspire their players to greatness... Sure is a lot better than the usual "We were one or two plays away from pulling it off" --Unnamed former football coach Or "The kids have to learn how to fit into the motion offense. Then we will see the results." -- Unnamed former basketball coach Despite streak of victories, Zips still looking for more Travis scores 22 points, a career high, as Akron completes a challenge from Dambrot with win By Darnell Mayberry Beacon Journal staff writer Nothing about the University of Akron's 79-64 win over Ball State was special to forward Romeo Travis. Not his career-high 22 points. Not the fact that the Zips had just easily ran through coach Keith Dambrot's five-game gantlet. Not even the presence of former St. Vincent-St. Mary teammate LeBron James. Travis didn't crack as much as a smile after the game. It was just another win. He doesn't know if all his teammates are on the same page, but he's hoping that they all feel just like him. ``Unsatisfied,'' Travis said with a blank face. Two weeks ago, Dambrot threw out the notion of taking one game at a time. The Zips were beginning a stretch of five games, four of them at home, that could catapult them into contention for the East Division race in the Mid-American Conference. Dambrot reminded his team of the goal throughout every practice. Every meeting. Every film session. They responded by walking over Ball State (9-6, 4-3) on Tuesday night to finish the stretch a perfect 5-for-5. The Zips won the five by an average margin of 22 points. ``Five games in a row, that's great, but it's nothing if you lose three in a row,'' Travis said. ``If we go down to Miami and Bowling Green and don't get a win, I'm more upset than if we lost one of these games. That's like taking one step forward and three steps back.'' Akron, which moved to 12-5, 6-3 in the MAC, is in a first-place tie with Miami. Miami plays host to Western Michigan tonight before being host to Akron on Sunday afternoon. The Zips then play at Bowling Green. ``We need one of those two,'' Travis said. ``It'd be great if we won both, but we need one of those two.'' Akron's manhandling of a Ball State team that entered as the winner of four of its past five further solidified the Zips as a contender. More impressive is that the Zips have gone 5-2 since losing leading post player Jeremiah Wood for the rest of the season to a knee injury. ``I think we're a good team,'' Dambrot said. ``You can't win five games in a row in this league and be a below-average team. I don't know sometimes how we're a good team except for we've got some guys that are better than what people think.'' The Zips have won seven of their past nine by being diverse with defensive looks and using a team effort on offense. The next four games will determine just how real Akron is. After road games at Miami and Bowling Green, the Zips return to Rhodes Arena (where they are 9-0) to play Can't State and Toledo. ``Can it continue?'' Dambrot said. ``I know we're going to try hard every night, I can guarantee you that. And we're going to play well together every night. If we do those two things, I'm happy.'' Still, Travis wants more from the Zips. When will he be satisfied? ``When we're in the NCAA Tournament,'' he said with the most serious look of all. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  11. Gleaned from ESPN.com -- Andy Katz.. quoted on MACbbs Projected ESPN Bracket Buster Matchups... http://www.ncaabbs.com/forums/mac/invision...=ST&f=1&t=18611 Illinois State (14-5, 6-3 MVC) at Akron (12-5, 6-3 MAC) This is a case of who has earned a TV game. Akron is in the thick of the MAC East race. Illinois State is still hanging around in the MVC. And remember the committee is somewhat stuck with which teams are home and road.
  12. Posted on Fri, Jan. 28, 2005 Zips fans have an eye on Frye From first look, Akron quarterback on track to NFL By Marla Ridenour Beacon Journal staff writer MOBILE, ALA. - Clark and Nancy Grafton watched practice attentively along the hedgerow as Akron quarterback Charlie Frye drilled passes to receivers Thursday at sunny Ladd-Peebles Stadium. This isn't the first trip to Mobile for the retired Akron policeman and his wife. They came four years ago to see Zips defensive back Dwight Smith compete in the Senior Bowl. ``He couldn't believe we were here,'' Nancy Grafton said of Smith, now a strong safety for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. ``I'd saved all his (press) clippings. We told him, `We came to watch you play football.' '' Their journey was a little shorter this time. The Graftons lived in Cuyahoga Falls until July, when they moved to Austin, Texas. Clark, who officiated high school football for 20 years, and Nancy are die-hard fans of the college game. They've even attended some at Wooster and Hiram, where ``you have to find somebody to pay to get in,'' Clark said. Clark Grafton remembers Frye's first Akron game at the Rubber Bowl against Ohio University. Frye was the backup and got in when the starter was injured and the Zips rallied to win in the final seconds. ``That day Nancy was like, `He's going to play pro football,' '' Clark said. ``I said, `He just needs to beef up a little,' '' Nancy recalled. Nancy Grafton, who teaches classes for insurance agents, might have missed her calling as an NFL scout. Frye did just that, bulking up from 175 pounds to 227 for Saturday's Senior Bowl, where he has drawn good reviews during this week's workouts. The Graftons continued to follow Frye, estimating they saw him play 25 times, including perhaps five away games, before they left the Buckeye State. ``We did get to see his game this year on ESPN,'' Clark said of the dramatic victory over Marshall. They'll be in the stands Saturday, Clark likely wearing the white Akron U. cap he sported Thursday. The Graftons won't be alone. There will be a Frye contingent of 24 led by his parents Sally and Dave, all decked out in Akron jerseys. ``You won't have any trouble finding us. We'll be promoting the university,'' Dave Frye said. Charlie Frye has done plenty of that on his own. He was the subject of a USA Today story on Wednesday. He's had a camera crew and reporter Lisa Salters from ESPN's Outside the Lines following him for more than a week for a 30-minute show that airs Sunday morning. ``It's very exciting to open up the newspaper and see your son's picture,'' Sally Frye said. ``We're thankful. After this weekend everybody is going to know Charlie Frye.'' Dave Frye said, ``Being at Akron you don't get quite the visibility that you get at USC and LSU and Ohio State. Timing-wise everything that's happening is perfect.'' The ultimate goal is for Frye to enhance his status for the April 23-24 NFL Draft. ESPN analyst Mel Kiper Jr. thinks Frye could go as high as the second round and a good performance Saturday for the North team wouldn't hurt. ``This was the bowl game he wanted to go to. It was very important,'' Sally Frye said. ``He knows where he wants to be and where he's headed. He's been preparing for this all of his life,'' Dave Frye said. ``He's very eager to learn, but yet be himself. ``That's what we're most proud of, he's still just Charlie Frye from Willard, Ohio. A humble kid.'' Posted on Fri, Jan. 28, 2005 What the scouts see in Scouting Charlie Frye ``He improved every day. I thought his deep balls were the strength of his game. It was encouraging to me. He threw some nice deep balls every day. Mechanically he gets in trouble; if he doesn't have his legs and feet in order, then it hinders his arm strength. When he's doing his mechanics properly, he's got plenty of arm strength.'' Steve Sarkisian, Oakland Raiders quarterbacks coach (North team) ``Above averge size (6-4, 227). Adequate arm strength. Decent mobility. Not a scrambler but he can elude a rush. Basically adequate physical tools. Very smart, intelligent guy. He's going to be able to pick up an NFL offense. He'll have better receivers to work with at the NFL level, which is going to help him quite a bit.'' Brian DeLucia, Ourlads' Scouting Service ``His feet are good. He had good touch, but there were times when he didn't. He threw a wide route to a running back, but threw it too hard and too far out front. His arm strength needs to improve. That's where maybe he needs to make the biggest strides. When that gets better, I think the accuracy will come with it. In the NFL, seams close quicker and man coverage is tighter; it's a game of speed. The ability to anticipate and get the ball there on time is real important. The better your arm the less anticipation you need. He's got a little bit of a long release, but not a ton. It isn't like watching (Auburn's Jason) Campbell.'' One NFC quarterbacks coach Posted on Thu, Jan. 27, 2005 Frye earns praise before Senior Bowl Zips quarterback impresses receivers, coach By Marla Ridenour Beacon Journal staff writer MOBILE, ALA. - Most of the receivers on Charlie Frye's North team at the Senior Bowl said they weren't skeptical about a quarterback from Akron. But UCLA's Craig Bragg fessed up on one count. ``Yeah, I was looking in the training room the other day and they had his helmet,'' Bragg said. ``I'm like, what is that on his helmet, is it a rabbit-dog-ram thing? What is a Zip? I was meaning to ask him at practice, but I haven't gotten a chance.'' Frye's headgear might look strange, but his passes are perfection. At least that's what the players pulling them in have concluded after three days of practice. ``It's probably the most catchable ball I've ever been thrown,'' Bragg said. ``He's very accurate; he puts it to you,'' Northern Colorado's Vincent Jackson said. ``He'll lead you. He usually doesn't underthrow you. He throws a ball that's easy to catch.'' ``I like catching from him,'' Oklahoma's Mark Clayton said. ``He has a lot of zip. When you come out of your break, you can look for the ball, and it will be in the air. That's one thing coach (Norv) Turner preaches, to get the ball out of your hands. The receivers should never see the ball leave your hands.'' Oklahoma's Brandon Jones likes Frye's arm, and then some. ``He's one of the best I've played with,'' Jones said. ``He has a real strong arm, and I like his attitude. He has a lot of fight in him. He's real competitive, you can tell by talking to him. And he loves the game. One time he told me, `I don't care how much they pay me, I just want to play.' ``You can tell he wants it bad. I enjoy him because I can tell he's going to be a good player down the road. He's starting out early.'' Oakland Raiders coach Norv Turner, heading the North team, called Frye's performance in practice Wednesday ``outstanding.'' ``I liked the way he picked up what we're doing,'' Turner said. ``He was the most relaxed he's been. He was kind of letting it flow instead of trying to be perfect. When we got in team situation, he slid the pocket, he improvised a little bit and made some good throws.'' Frye was pumped afterward, and it wasn't just because he was the subject of a story in Wednesday's USA Today. ``My confidence is up a lot,'' Frye said. ``I can see it. Now I can go out there and have fun. The first two days I was trying to think too much.'' Turner will ease up on practice today, the final big workout of the week, with his players wearing jerseys and shorts and taking no contact. So it was extremely important that Frye learned from an unimpressive day by his fellow quarterbacks. Connecticut's Dan Orlovsky fumbled on back-to-back snaps and Oklahoma State defensive back Darrent Williams picked off two passes against Orlovsky and Purdue's Kyle Orton. ``I was 100 percent in team (drills),'' Frye said. ``They were trying to force the ball downfield with everybody dropping. I was watching that. Coach flipped the rotation today and went in reverse so I got a chance to watch before I got in. You've got to learn from other people's mistakes and check it down to the backs. That's what I went in there and did.'' Before the April 23-24 draft, Jones and Clayton are working out in Arizona not far from Frye, so they get together occasionally. ``He throws to BJ, and I'll go catch up with them,'' Clayton said. It might have helped Frye that Clayton and Jones have different styles. Clayton is 5-foot-10, 185 pounds; Jones is 6-2 and 215. ``I like throwing to those Oklahoma boys,'' Frye said. ``They're different, though. Mark is more of a shifty, quick guy and Brandon has those long strides. When a DB is sitting at 12 yards, he's going to be on them like that.'' Their time together before arriving in Mobile explains why Jones has shown good chemistry with Frye. Jones pulled in a bomb Wednesday in the end zone after a play-action fake and a pump fake from Frye. ``I like Charlie,'' Jones said. ``He reminds me of more of an NFL quarterback. He throws so well and so hard. He works so hard.'' When they met, Jones said he didn't underestimate Frye's ability, even if he wasn't surrounded by the talent in college that Jones enjoyed at Oklahoma. ``I heard a lot about him,'' Jones said. ``I know down there they don't get a big group of recruits. He's pretty good to do what he did with what he had.''
  13. Here you go Captain... Posted on Wed, Jan. 26, 2005 Terry Pluto: Brookhart has special feeling after first year By Terry Pluto They won six of their last eight games and went into the final week of the football season with a chance to win a Mid-American Conference championship. They drew 29,261 fans and 17,410 fans to their final two home games at the Rubber Bowl. They had a quarterback who could be picked in the first round of the NFL Draft in April, and their coach was voted best in the MAC. Not a bad debut for the University of Akron's J.D. Brookhart, who now sheds the label as a rookie head coach. His team finished 6-5 (6-2 in the MAC) after losing its first three games and being outscored 130-34. He also had a monster find in recruiting when he signed a little running back named Brett Biggs, who rushed for 10 touchdowns and 906 yards while seldom fumbling. Biggs was a neglected junior-college player who had one Division I offer. He really didn't know where Akron was, nor did he care. All that mattered to this 5-foot-8, 180-pounder from Fort Scott Community College in Kansas was that someone wanted him. Brookhart and his staff will have to uncover more recruiting gems such as Biggs, especially with MAC Player of the Year Charlie Frye headed to the pros. So who will be the quarterback next season? Brookhart offers two quick answers: Jabari Arthur or Luke Getsy. Arthur is such a gifted athlete that he played receiver and caught 23 passes from Frye last year. He is out of the Ohio State quarterback Troy Smith mold, a swift sprinter with a strong arm. Getsy is a pocket quarterback, a 3.9 GPA student, and good enough to be listed as the No. 2 quarterback at the University of Pittsburgh when the 2004 season began. He transferred to Akron to be with Brookhart, the former Pitt offensive coordinator. Brookhart is excited about some other transfers. Andy Alleman of Massillon began his career as a defensive lineman at Pitt, where he was a backup defensive end for two years. He is joining Getsy in coming to Akron and is penciled in to start on the offensive line. There also is DaVanzo Tate, who was a backup defensive back at West Virginia as a freshman before transferring last fall. In high school, he was an honor student at Austintown Fitch. And there's former Ohio State recruit Dennis Kennedy, who has a chance to play some at running back if he overcomes a knee injury. The intriguing part of the four transfers is they were talented enough to be recruited by major schools, and they all were able to work out with the Zips this past season as redshirts. So they bring experience, which the Zips desperately will need. Loss of leadership Veteran leadership is what Brookhart insists Akron will miss the most. The coach still marvels at how seniors such as Chase Blackburn, John Fuller, Dan Basch, DeWayne LeFall, Aaron Conley and Frye stuck by him after the disastrous 0-3 start. ``It would have been easy for them to say the new coach doesn't know what he's doing,'' Brookhart said. ``In terms of discipline, we put a lot of demands on them. The team could have gone in a different direction, but the seniors held them together.'' Part of this is a tribute to former coach Lee Owens, who recruited all those players. And the seniors, who decided to buy into the new coach's way and bring the rest of the team along, also deserve credit. ``Now, I ask the guys -- who will be our leaders?'' Brookhart said. ``I like what (juniors) Kiki Gonzalez, (Jay) Rohr, (Domenik) Hixson and Biggs did. But these kids have to step it up and set the tone; the coaches can't do it alone.'' Brookhart is pleased with the academic progress. Twenty players had less than a 2.0 grade-point average in the spring of 2004. Now, it's only seven. His freshman recruiting class has a 3.0 GPA. The seniors also led in this area, as Frye (3.8), Fuller (3.0), Basch (3.8) and Blackburn (3.4) excelled. Overall atmosphere Brookhart is convinced it can get even better. ``Just walk around our campus,'' he said. ``It's a true university setting. What has happened here with all the new buildings, the trees and everything else is amazing. We bring in kids from out of the area and they are blown away by the facilities.'' That also goes for the new practice field and the impressive field house. The recognition that Frye has brought to the school has been an asset, too. ``Know what our biggest problem has been?'' Brookhart said. ``Keeping the area kids home. We can get kids from Cleveland, kids from Columbus and around the state. But right now, we've had a hard time with the kids right here.'' Brookhart returns his top two runners (Jerell Ringer and Biggs) as well as his two most productive receivers (Jason Montgomery and Hixson). He worries about his offensive line where the only starter back is Tim Crouch. He is very confident about tight ends Kris Kasparek and Dennis Basch. The defense will have six starters back, and he believes that it will be in good shape. He also has a more favorable nonconference schedule than the Zips usually face with road games at Purdue and Middle Tennessee, and Army comes to the Rubber Bowl. ``It's up to us to take what we've done and build on it,'' he said. ``We have to keep getting good players who are also good kids, and keep doing things to get the community involved. I really believe we're getting close to having something special here.'' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Messages for Terry Pluto can be left at 330-996-3816 or terrypluto2003@yahoo.com. Sign up for Terry's free, weekly e-mail newsletter ``Direct from Pluto'' at www.ohio.com.
  14. Saw the ad this morning... bush league.. UAM should get the ad for free.... Or maybe get a positive front page story as a make good.... Forgive the pun here but the BJ Blew it.... I have a better idea. Becon should promote a game for free. Buy tickets and give them away etc. or a Beacon Journal Family Nite with discount tickets.. BJ throws ads in for free... Pick a game Toledo, Miami or Marshall. The BJ also screwed up a football ad this past season too... UAM, you out there??? Do I remember correctly??
  15. Note the comment about attending junior college or not going to summer school... Antwon Hight
  16. Lost Kangaroo May Have Found a Home MADISON, Wis. (AP) — A kangaroo that went on a walkabout of frigid Wisconsin just might settle down in the Midwest after all. As reported in Out There, the red-haired marsupial, now known as "Roo," was captured in a snowstorm outside of Dodgeville last week. Sheriff's deputies cornered the 150-pound critter in a barn after receiving calls for days from shocked residents who had seen it. Kangaroos can be purchased for about $1,000 or more in the United States, but no one has reported him missing. Roo remains under quarantine at the Henry Vilas Zoo (search), and if no one claims it, zoo officials plan to introduce it to their other kangaroos to see if they get along. But if things don't work out, Margaret Suter said she has room at her home near Madison, where she already keeps six kangaroos and a wallaby. "I worried for that kangaroo. It lost its caregiver," Suter said. "And if you own one of these animals, you shouldn't turn your back on it." Suter's kangaroos have a variety of stories — she took in one that was wounded and had one of his arms amputated. Another, named Skippy, is a blind 1-year-old female with her very own special quarters. She got Captain, her first, about eight years ago and learned the animal's habits and requirements as she went along. Her kangaroos eat oats and special pellets, as well as snacks of fresh fruit. "They can seem just like big teddy bears," she said. "They're beautiful animals and I just love them."
  17. Two words... Wow and Wow... Really looked good tonite..... hope we can repeat that kind of effort.... Way to go Zips!
  18. CFN Ranks 1st Year Head Coaches I know it's CFN and they're not the most respected source around here but JD is listed #3 behind UTEP's Mike Price and Cincinnati's Mark D'Antnio. Can't argue Price. Like JD, he started out with little or nothing and took the same players and won... so did JD. But D'Antonio?? Really? Was Cincinnati that bad??? Thoughts???
  19. Zipbandsman... you beat me to it .... added the flag too....
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