Balsy

If Kato is the best we've got then...the future doesn't look very bright.

PJ Fleck =/= Tom Arth. You can go ahead and drop that comparison. PJ Fleck is the exception to the rule, not the rule. PJ Fleck was an unknown Quantity when he became a head coach, he was a WR coach from Tampa Bay. Tom Arth is not. Tom Arth is a 9-13 head coach at FCS Chattanooga. If we were looking for "innovative" and "new" he was not it. If he had just come from John Carroll than maybe I'd be on board for the comparison, but he didn't. He already made the jump to a higher devision and really didn't have much success to speak of. Bowden (and I really want to stop making the comparisons, but need to because everyone immediately throws him under the bus on this forum) had success EVERYWHERE he coached. Salem, Samford, Auburn, North Alabama. Akron is really the only place he seemed to struggle to get regular success as a head coach. To me this underscores the problem that everyone always ignores: Akron seems to have a unique problem other schools don't seem to have, and we all want to ignore that for some reason. It also manifests itself in attendance, and with diehards like us. Fun Sidenote: Tom Arth played QB in 2004 for the Scottish Claymores in Scotland. Who woulda known?

Yup. I'm right there with ya. Right!? Let's see Ramart...is he really that bad? We're already 0-3... Culture is improving? I see the same losing Zips. 2-3 more years of this and Arth will be gone. You HAVE to see SOME sort of improvement from Coach X to Coach Y or you're going to be gone. Brookheart mired in awful...and Ianello was worse. Bowden had the same record as Ianello in his first year, but there was an obvious and detectable difference. There has been ZERO change from the End of the Bowden era to Arth, I'd argue it's worse. Right? Bowden we needed to get rid of immediately...but Arth he needs 2-3 years. lolz

This speaks for itself: Remember when the last time we hired a new coach, and it was still the players recruited from the last guy, we saw overall improvement with the team in competitiveness and stats. I ask you...are we seeing that now?

No. Any and all comments made about Bowden and Arth in this thread were a logical progression of a conversation of feelings/observations/thoughts directly derived from the UAB game. I guess all the comments about recruiting and 247 need to move to the recruiting thread right? There's like 4 pages of 8 on this thread that have Bowden's name in it. To say this now is being preposterously pedantic.

Nope. I'm as diehard a Zip Alumni as any of you. I will not apologize for it. And I will not apologize for being realistic. The Irony is this whole forum was miserable last year...where was your advocacy for people to "take their misery elsewhere" last year when this forum melted down on just about every one of the last 6-games of the season?

But saying "Terry Bowden" does matter. Because that's a known quantity. That's not arbitrary, that's not me speaking off my ass. You know it, and I know it. Now which recruit am I excited for so far in the 2020 class? None of them. I have zero excitement in Akron Zips Football. My excitement has been completely drained, and it started with the decline of the Bowden years. I've been burnt too many times by getting excited for whatever recruits to care before they actually show something.

Are we seriously comparing 247 recruiting rankings, including FCS teams, as valid objective arguments? Wake me up in 2-3 years.

Yes, I suppose we will won't we.

I'm sorry you think that. Believe it or not...apples and oranges are quite similar. (I know it's a cliche, but I felt like being an overly pedantic asshole).

Are we seriously talking about the #1 and #2 recruiting classes at an FCS school right now? Please...stop.

I mean, just go look at the reasons you don't like Bowden, and then understand it's the same reason people started not liking Dambrot. If it's a perceived hypocrisy or logical inconsistency on our part...than it's a perceived hypocrisy and logical inconsistency on your part. Dambrot was here for 13 years, and was 5 seasons removed from the last time it had any real success. Bowden was here for 7 years, and was removed 1 season removed from any real success (a MAC Championship appearance). It's really not hard to see how something can fester over 5-years as opposed to 1.

And Here's the question that matters: do you think that Tom Arth, with his illustrious career of coaching D-III John Carrol for a handful of years and two years of coaching at FCS Chattanooga to a 9-13 record; can out recruit Terry Bowden (who has a 25-year coaching history with connections to Florida...whom's father is a legendary College Football coach). And that's not even mentioning transfers... I'd like to smoke WHATEVER it is everyone else is smoking who believes that Tom Arth will be able to put together a BETTER team talent wise than Terry Bowden. It doesn't make any, remote, logical sense. This isn't to say the Bowden teams were packed with talent...I just find it extremely hard to believe that a coach from John Carroll will be able to out recruit a Bowden.

And you're acting as if Akron Football was some sort of powerhouse that has winning seasons on the regular, and the Bowden years were a tick in the wrong direction. Oh wait...

Losing in the way we lost will do that to you.

Amen. Our financially strapped university is eating the contract of the most successful D-1 coach in school's history. Two bowl games. First Bowl game win. First MACC appearance in a decade. First Big-10 win (too bad it was in during a bad season). I said it before, I'll say it again...I hope I'm wrong on Tom Arth. I really, really, really don't want to say I told you so. But we got rid of the best D-1 coach in school history for a guy who coached at FCS Chattanooga to a spectacular 9-13 record. The Dark Times, I fear, are indeed back.

I think I saw a Rob Ianello on the sidelines today.

Right. But then there is the $4-million cost for the Stadium. And I get that we cannot go back in time and not build the damn thing, but yes all athletics costs X, and the vast majority of the money coming in comes from Football. But it's still a loss. Combining the two programs (probably using Infocision because it's newer) would get closer to being solvent. IDK, this is one thing I've struggled with for years now. I don't want to see the Zips not be the Zips vs. Kent. But how in the hell is any of this sustainable anymore? It's time to stop kicking the can down the road and operating like it's 1960s. Decades of mismanagement by entire generation of leaders putting things on the creditcard has led to this.

I'm not trying to argue with you I do appreciate that you take the time to write out a thoughtful response, I think we're both talking about the same thing. I'm just frustrated that UA is in this position, and I'd really like to see more discussion at large of how to rectify it. I do appreciate your outspoken-ness, and we need more of it from the UA community.

You got FFS because you straw manned my entire argument. You got asshole because you called my post "one of the dumbest you've seen" before you straw manned my position. You got delusional because your counter to an additional pay-day game was ticket-sales which I broke down...cluelessness wasn't you directly, it was directed at the leadership that UA has had for the last two-decades that acted as if "build it and they will come" by using the creditcard instead of realistically planning a successful future for the UA and athletics. I wanted a good back and forth conversation, but you decided to be a jerk first, and I defended my position. Don't write a check your ass can't cash (a Dr. Phil reference because I apparently have to explain things).

I'm sorry I was quickly writing that. I mistook the $33million total as football only and not the entire sports department. I'll correct that. I changed it to "Sports costs" and not just football. The $24-million is still the subsidized cost of the entire sports programs. I still don't see even with a ~$10 million/year budget how football is anywhere close to solvent. Infocision is a cost being shouldered, and it doesn't even make enough at full capacity to cover it's own cost. Hence the need for money/pay-day games. The same article that lists the ~$33 million overall cost, put the total "revenues" at ~$35 million which would make it look like the sports department made money. But it's really not a "gain" of two-million...it's a net loss of $22-million as a result of the subsidy. It seems that the entire Sports department is able to gross ~$11-million, which isn't even 1/3 of the operating cost. Which is why I brought this up. There has to be a way to be more solvent. I agree with adding the teams makes absolutely no sense.

You're more delusional than I am if you think this is a better viable solution. Whom and from whom? The Akron community already has shown it doesn't care (butts in seats), the Alumni already for the most part show that they don't care (butts in seats and donations). This is a pipe dream. Sports costs the University some 24,000,000 it could use elsewhere (that come from student fees/tuition). 30,000 total fans can attend the game...minus 5000 for the various student sections... Even if you were SELL OUT on season tickets (and I'm just spitballing here): 16 Suites ($20,000 ea = $320,000) Some 600 Club Level seats (200 at $1000 = $200,000) (400 at $500 = $200,000) Some 400 Priority Reserve ($250 = $100,000 Some 600 Priority Upper Reserve ($200 = $120,000) Some 1200 Reserved ($150 = $180,000) Some 1200 other reserved ($120 = $144,000) Some 1200 Other Reserved ($90 = $108,000) And the rest of the stadium, some 19,000 at the GA Season Ticket (price of $60 = $1,140,000) You get a grand total of $2,312,000. For the whole season, not even the value of two pay-day games. With a program that has an annual budget around $33,000,000 with the Student Body subsidizing that by about 70%;. And the numbers I present here are "best case scenario". And we all know well that we will never fill that stadium 100%. We won't even scratch 60% if they're doing well ($1,387,200) which doesn't amount to a pay-day game. Donations I won't even attempt to quantify; because it's just not realistic. Who in the hell is going to give money to a glorified Community College that continuously cuts full-time staff and programs with no sense of vision or direction, to flush $24,000,000 down the toilet on football, under rudderless leadership? I sure as hell am unwilling to give more of my money to the University of Akron; and I'm a freaking Akron diehard. Your "plan" just seems like the same cluelessness Akron leadership has had for the last two-decades. See what you did...you brought out the bitter 20-something again.

For the record: still waiting on your suggestions for how to deal with the financial disaster and waterfall of a leak that is Akron Zips football... considering this is the "What's going to Happen Now" thread.

For fucks sake no it isn't! It's called reading comprehension dude. I'm merely trying to suggest an avenue to become more solvent. and then you go off and strawman at every opportunity you get. I regret coming back to this crap show.

I personally wouldn't mind that.