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And you forgot something.....very undersized. I always like to think that he is turning the corner, but at the same time I also continue to be frustrated by his inability to finish. I sure hope that this year, some of these early season glimpses of improvement carry over to the conference slate.

I'm mindboggled by some of the comparisons. Wayne State was an unranked D-II team this year who made a cinderella-like playoff run. I wouldn't emphasize the "unranked D-II" so much, except that we now have people who seem to be taking this stretch of games, and allowing themselves to believe that this somehow now suddenly elevates them to the caliber of the lower tier of D-1A.

I don't think my cardiovascular system can hold out that long.

We don't even know what happened before the Winters offer. How many other candidates have even been involved over the last few weeks, and how close did any of them get to getting the job before eliminating themselves or not getting an offer? It's killing me, because we probably will never know. If somehow we weren't doing much more than waiting for Winters, we could have made a huge and costly miscalculation.

Well, neither is the fact that the offenses coordinated by Winters were the most consistently good that Akron's ever had, hands down, since they went Div-I. And neither is the fact that Winters did not coach defense for teams that were consistently bad on defense. Winters was the offensive coordinator, not the associate head coach, or anything of the sort. With all due respect, to imply that he was is just inaccurate. Sorry for the double. Computer locked. I know I have to keep asking this, but if this guy was so great in his tenure here, then why did he end up in a D-II job in crappy Detroit?

It could have just been a courtesy offer. We'll probably never know. I think that theory has at least some credibility, since we've waited until his team was done playing. But, if this theory is true, would it really make the Winters supporters any happier?

Stats are nice for making points. But you have to have some understanding of how those stats are relevant to the point you're trying to make. Akron lost under Lee Owens (with Paul as OC) because the Zips could not defend, period. Akron was a blast to watch (and often frustrating to watch) under Lee Owens (with Paul as OC) because they could put up points against virtually anybody. Paul Winters held up his end when he was here. Try again. So, when a business fails, it is automatically 100% the fault of the President, no matter what role the VP or anyone else in the organization played in contributing to the failure? Owens and Winters were the top guys in the leadership of that team. They failed. It's not a fact that can easily just be discarded.

I completely agree with you. If a D-II coach turned us down, it's a sad commentary on the state of our football program. I know we don't know anything, but didn't the Detroit article seem to indicate that they hadn't even talked to each other? Although I did not want Winters, for a number of reasons, I still would be surprised if we didn't at least interview him again, like we did two years ago.

Thank God.

I have concerns about all the options because they are a unknown. If there was a way to predict success then all 120 schools would constantly have winners. I like how you spin things to make one look better than the other. Michael Johnson's whole career is based on the fact that he got to work with Vick for a short period of time. You say "he's been hired for many, many coaching positions" I say he can't hold a job (6 different teams in 12 years). You say "stuck in D-II for a number of years" I say being a head coach doing exactly what we want a coach to do. Every one of these guys has pros and cons. I have yet to see a detailed list of that for the known possibilities. Personally I like that Johnson has a lot of NFL and college experience, but show me how his accomplishments stack up to Winters or Loeffler. I haven't thrown my hat in completely for Winters, at the time the options were extremely limited and he was the best possible hire. I don't know who I like, but I will question people on why they like certain things and dismiss others. I'm not spinning anything in Johnson's favor. I am not a big supporter of his for this coaching position.

I'm fine with the idea of not acknowledging their official name. Include me with those who have a juvenile sense of humor

Yeah? You feel Johnson is the best, a guy that couldn't get it done in LA with all those resources? That Jim Mora Jr. doesn't want and didn't want, that bounced around the NFL for a long time, that hasn't been on this side of the country for a long time. Just curious how a coordinator from a bad program is tops on your list. Nothing against him, I think he may be someone worth looking at, he wouldn't be tops on my list, and the way at which you disqualify other guys not sure why he would be tops on yours. So, let me see if I understand this correctly. You wholeheartedly seem to support a guy who has been stuck in D-II for a number of years and was a big part of a staff who failed here once before, but you have questions about a guy who has earned enough respect from his peers at the upper echelon of both college and pro football that he's been hired for many, many coaching positions in both D-1A and the NFL over the years?

Sure, It doesn't matter what level. That's what Notre Dame thought when they hired Gerry in 1979. And Gerry's teams at Moeller could have destroyed most D-II teams. There's a reason why we designate different levels of college football.

I think a lot of people noticed him which is why he won awards. There is a bid difference between getting noticed and hired. Not too many black coaches were getting hired when Winters was on the job market after the Owens era. The color of a coaches skin matters because it matter to older donors who grew up in a different time. Things are different now, but nine years ago they weren't like they are now. I figured we'd see a response like this. Yep, the views in this country have changed incredibly since 2004

No. Why would we? See if someone at the I-AA level will give you a try with that record first, and we'll take a look at you again next time we need a coach. That's what I think.

Once again...he was the offensive coordinator, not the head coach. O-coordinators don't build a tradition. Besides, nobody can answer your question. I mean, unless you know for sure who can do this. Who is he? To be fair, even though he was Owens right hand man, maybe he shouldn't take a lot of blame for that unimpressive era of Akron football. But, if you've gotten noticed by your colleagues at the D-1A level, coordinators usually get other similar opportunities, maybe even at bigger schools, or even opportunities to move up to a HC position. But in this case, even after a lengthy OC tenure at the D1-A level, this "great" coach that some people describe fell dramatically to a D-II school in crappy Detroit, and has been there for quite a few years now. That's something anyone has to wonder about, at the very least. Some people have asked why Bowden hasn't returned to I-A. And whether the people who do the hiring at our level know something that we don't. It's a legitimate concern in this case as well.

Pot meet kettle.

I can live with Glen being a former Flash. It was a long time ago. I just want the best coach we can get, and as I've said all along, a former D-1A head coach would be my first choice. And he would be the type of hire that would get a lot of people's attention, and generate excitement. But at 60 years old, his age is a little bit of a concern to me. I don't think OSWho fans cared that Urban was from the OSWho-hated SEC, or that he spanked the crap out of them in January a few years ago. I'm sure they just wanted the best coach they could get. We should feel the same way, and not care that he once was employed by a rival.

Wow. Since most of what we see on this site is just speculation, if this is a fact, it may indicate that we simply might not be able to get some of the guys that we are targeting right now. That's sad to me, but I guess it's also a reality when you are a poor football team.

]It never ceases to amaze me how some people conveniently use facts. "iCoach set the program back 5 years". Now?? They should be able to win within a few years (or sooner!!). LOL Simply amazing. First, I don't recall ever making that prediction. Either of them. Secondly, what does that even have to do with my thoughts on the gap between the good and bad teams in the MAC? You often appear to be very quick to jump on people around here without checking what you are talking about. What is your objective?

I've mentioned this previously, but I won't be the one judging Winters, or any candidate, on a few plays, one game, or one playoff run. I think any of that would be unfair and inaccurate.

Let me see if I got this right. You claim to know who the finalist are, but you are asking US to give you information about the announcement. It sounds like you know a lot more than we do, so maybe you should be telling us more about what's going on.

I think some people like to put a big distance between the bottom of the MAC and the top of the MAC. It's not as great as some people like to think. JD immediately had us in MAC contention his first year, and won it the 2nd year. He did this basically by adding two good impact players, a QB and RB. And I'm sure he was a better coach, although Owens certainly didn't create much of a standard to surpass, to say the least. So, I would caution people who seem compelled to describe rising to a competitive status in the MAC as some kind of long monumental process. Becoming the next Boise State or TCU is a huge undertaking. Becoming an OU or NIU is not.

What if JT didn't get that gift pass interference call in the championship game? Think his legacy would be different? It is always nice to see people call that play the way it was. Among OSWho fans, maybe his legacy would have been different. They love to remind you that they won something a decade ago to cover for their more recent failures. But, to most fans outside their brainwashed umbrella, they forgot about OSWho winning a title a long, lone time ago. That answers the legacy question. My point was in reference to whether any single game should make someone change their mind about a coach's ability.

How did he look lost? The suspensions didn't hurt Luke, Pryor going to the NFL did. Pryor makes OSU three games better last year. This is a good chance to move the conversation to the Zips. If the next coach does not get a QB who can be successful in his offense, we will see more of the same from the Zips. Pryor was already long gone when they got ranked #17, and faded into obscurity as the season progressed, and finished it off for good with a 3 game losing streak to close. Because his tenure was so short, I have to look at how the team progressed under his leadership during the course of the season. And the way that they fell from Top-20 to getting no respect at all from any coaches or writers is impossible to overlook.