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Big Zip...I am almost 100% certain that he was NOT talking about the Winking Lizard. I've watched many Zips game there, and that has never been the case.Are you possibly recalling my experience that I talked about at BW3?I do remember someone saying something about a bar where the staff was all dressed in OSU gear during the Akron/OSU game, but I'm quite certain that was not the Fairlawn Winking Lizard.

This has been a really strange week.Zippy started out on Monday and Tuesday as the top overall vote getter. Then suddenly, by about Wednesday, Zippy had fallen to about 8th or 9th place, and was even trailing by quite a few votes in this week's matchup against CavMan.Now, suddenly, Zippy appears to have a commanding lead of over 2,000 votes in the matchup against CavMan, and is back to 3rd place in overall votes.I'm not sure how to explain these peaks and valleys, but I just want to remind everyone to give Zippy one final push this weekend so that we can start out 1-0 for the competition.And just in case anyone is curious, I am NOT the person who wears the Zippy uniform. I'm just a longtime fan who keeps giving these updates because I think it could be a TREMENDOUS publicity boost to the U of A if we can challenge for this title. Go Zips !!

This smells like some kind of hoax.

I vote for the Lizard. They are very Zips friendly, and they are a supporter. We need to "thank" the people who truly support the Zips by being there.

I know I am using the perfect example by using Favre as an example of a guy who went from playing poorly early, to being a star in the league. It's just the example that comes to the top of my mind when thinking of QB development.And before any of the detractors decide to respond by saying "so you think Frye will be as good as Favre???" Just drop it. I'm not saying that at all. I'm just using him as one of many, many examples of QBs that developed quite well after a bad start in their career. Want another illustration of how difficult it is to forecast QB development? How about the fact that more than HALF of QBs drafted in the first round have short careers in the NFL.Once again, it's just way too difficult to project the future success of NFL quarterbacks. But Charlie's rating shows he's on track with, and ahead of, where many current starters were at this point in their career. Honestly, after a few days to think about it, I'm happy for Charlie that he is in a much better situation, but sad that if he develops well, he'll be playing somewhere else besides for my Cleveland Browns. I also like zen's point that you can actually think of Cleveland ALONE and come up with QBs that did well after they left here.

GP1...change Seattle's comments to read however you want them to read. That's your choice. We can't stop you.Truth is, if any of us had the time, we could provide quite a long list of great NFL quarterbacks who looked awful when they were first in the league. For one, does the name Brett Favre ring a bell? Cut by the Atlanta Falcons after only a couple of years? We simply don't know. But since you do, I'm sure we'll find you in a very prominent position in an NFL front office someday.Good luck to you

Yep, that's pretty much the story. How is going to become a floor general, and who is capable of giving us some scoring/rebounding up front alongside Jeremiah.

This will be one heck of a season, and the Akron/Can't rivalry will heat up even more this year.I would figure that Can't will look better than us on paper to start the season since they had a very young nucleus of starters last year that will be returning. Which leaves only one question mark for us...How quickly will we be able to fill the shoes of Dru and Romeo?

GP1...your comments couldn't be further from the truth.History clearly shows that a QBs performance in their first 1-2 years in the league is NO INDICATION of how they will perform during the remainder of their career.But, since you and sgm are ready to can quarterbacks during their first couple of years in the league, we all would have missed seeing many, many great quarterbacks perform in this league over the years.Both of you continue to miss the argument that most of us are making, and that is that there is no way for us to tell how a guy like Charlie, or any other young QB, will develop during the course of their career. All we know is that Charlie's QB Rating gives an indication that he is on-track, or ahead of, where most future starters were at this point in their career. What hapens from here on out is yet to be seen.Like I've said before, maybe both of you should pursue some high-paying front office jobs in the NFL instead of post your analysis here. Because, every team in the NFL could use someone who can foresee future success or failure.

sgm...it's just the same repetitive and tiring argument, over and over again.Yes, we all know Charlies stats: One of the best QB ratings among current NFL starters in their first 16 games as an NFL starter. But, you've chosen to argue that for months now.But what you say in your most current post really takes the cake.Charlie has been Cleveland's starter by default??? Because we had nobody else that was better???Hmmm...can't we make that argument about every starting quarterback in the NFL?You're really reaching for anything you can at this point, aren't you? I just don't understand your obsession with finding anything you can think of to discredit this guy.

sgm...first of all, he DID claim the job. He's been the starter since the middle of the 2005 season. Where have you been?You'll start to see the light when you realize that Charlie Frye is not the reason why the Browns are a horrible football team. What's with this "if Romeo and Savage thought Charlie could take them to the playoffs, he'd still be here"?? This is not a good enough TEAM to go to the playoffs, and when a coaching staff and GM are in DESPERATION MODE to try to keep their jobs, they need someone else to blame.And I'm sure I don't need to ask if you are getting this yet, because I'm sure you'll surface again with yet another "Frye stinks" argument.I think you keep forgetting that many of us are lifetime Browns fans. So, to accuse us of this undying support of Charlie Frye at the expense of the Cleveland Browns is ridiculous. We want the Browns to win. The only thing we know for sure is that this team is not very good. Will it get better? We don't know, but they need a serious overhaul. Will Charlie ever be a star in the NFL? We don't know that either. Will Brady Quinn be a star? Again, we don't know. But I do know one thing that will be comforting to me now that Charlie is in Seattle...As the Browns continue through this season as one of the NFL's worst teams, I won't have to come on this board and see anyone blaming it on Charlie Frye.

Is it available yet? I've always liked those colors. And that jersey will forever signify Charlie Frye being given the greatest gift of his life, whether he realizes it now or not.

I guess my real question at this point is.....Do we really want to spend this kind of time talking about Youngstown?

Dr. Z.....I think it was right after that 3rd sack that the fans started yelling "Brady...Brady...Brady".Please tell me not all Browns fans are that ignorant.

Dr. Z...if we are thinking of the same play, Shaffer got pushed to his back with such ease that it looked like he was standing on a street, and a truck ran him over.

I sure hope nobody is believing what you are hearing right now from a desperate NFL administration that is scrambling to save their own jobs. If you watched the game, the offensive line got battered in the 1st quarter, as Pittsburgh was coming at us hard, and spending every down in our backfield. I saw countless Browns' OLs on their back. Once Pittsburgh got a decent lead, they called off the dogs. However, I certainly didn't think Charlie played well at all, even if it was only for a quarter. I credit that to the Browns' coaching staff not adequately preparing ANY of their QBs to start the season , let alone a Steelers game, the way they ran their camp, and the dividing of playing time during the exhibition games. Although DA got more gametime play than Charlie in the exhibition season, he isn't prepared to be a starter right now either. And it's certainly not Quinn. So, it's going to be a long year. I am glad to see that the Browns have acknowledged what insiders were telling us all along. That teams were wanting Charlie when they drafted Quinn, but they couldn't afford to let Charlie go at that point. Although, it's not as if they are any better off now. According to the paper this morning, Holmgren intends to work Charlie in slowly. WOW..what a concept !!

More good points. I still believe that we need to think about our program long-term, and not schedule the Penguins.

Speaking of that....Did anyone hear about the kid at Mentor High School (same school that produced Igor Iveljic) kicking the 58-yard field goal last weekend?

Buckzip...actually, others have speculated similar scenarios, so it's not that far fetched at all.I will say this for sure, getting Charlie out of the picture early in the season definitely gives them a clearer path for "Their Plan", as Savage calls it.If what I heard yesterday is correct, a service that has been keeping stats on the NFL for 30some years says that this is the first time that a QB was declared the starter in Week 1, and was gone before week 2.Leave it to the Cleveland Browns. Which means that, we'll probably hear very soon that the current leadership has been declared the most inept NFL organization of all time as well. And just think, a few short years ago we wanted to run Chris Palmer out of town. Boy, we've made significant progress since those days, haven't we?

I guess you guys have a valid point. I just would rather us be looking more long-term.

Frye now has a situation favorable to him, like every young QB should have.Not only did he never have a veteran mentor in Cleveland, but he actually was playing the role of mentor himself to younger QBs. It was a situation built for failure, and many experts have already indicated just that.So, the Browns solve that problem by bringing in Ken Dorsey as a "veteran mentor"? It's really laughable. In analyzing our new starter by default, D. Anderson, the ABJ clearly indicated on Monday (something anyone watching the game saw) that he had about 5 more throws that were in the hands of Steelers defenders that should have been intercepted. And he already had a fumble and intercetion to begin with. And he really has no excuse. I believe Anderson ended up with more throws than any of the Browns' QBs during the exhibition game. Plus, if you recall, Anderson threw almost as many interceptions as completions in the last game he played in, the shutout loss to Tampa Bay. I don't care how much faster he's getting rid of the ball, he's proven time and time again that he's not a good decision maker, or an accurate passer. And his lack of mobility complicates the situation even further. Anyone remember the ONLY time we beat a NFC North opponent in the last few seasons? It was a game agaisnt the Baltimore Ravens, with Charlie Frye at the helm. Charlie was ahead of DA for 2 years on the depth chart for a reason. DA is simply the QB by default at this point, as a result of the Frye trade.

I look at it this way...Ohio State can afford to play Y-town because they have so many other quality games on their schedule. It's been 20 years now since we played 1-AA. It's not going to do us any good to play these teams.Plus, as someone just mentioned, if our common opponent this year, Ohio State, is any comparison, it would be a real snoozer. Ohio State played against Y-town as if it was a practice game, and the game was vitually over before it began. Yet, Ohio State comes after us and struggles to even get a lead for 3 quarters.I hate to use common opponents as a measuring stick, but we even had to play Ohio State with one week of tune-up under their belt, and they had our Army game film to look at as yet another advantage, the results were still dramatically different. I just don't see this game helping us at all.

Zippy is now within 600 votes of passing Virginia's CavMan, our first round matchup.It looks like Virginia's mid-week surge is starting to lose steam. We need a hard push over the next few days to put Zippy over the top, and start out 1-0 in the standings.

Actually, Seattle's colors are really cool. I think I might get me a Frye Seahawks jersey, especially considering how disgusted I am with the entire Browns organization.

I think JD should get a screen name and give us daily strategy updates.Then I want the players to come on here and debate JD's plans.That would be awesome