Akron vs. Penn State in 2009

[ZachTheZip]

This has always been my understanding of the cost of the football program. It is 25% of the Athletic Department costs. I understand it takes around $13 million to run the A. Dept., so 25% of that is $3.25 million. A 25,000 seat stadium x 6 home games x $20 ASP for a ticket = $3 million. With parking, food/drinks/merchandise and suite fees, they should be able to cover the $3.25 million if they can sell out all of their games. That's best case. Whatever the case is, they will be better off than the Rubber Bowl.

You're forgetting the real money-maker that was designed into the stadium plans: luxury suites. There of 15 of them, all sold out for at least the next three years, at $20,000 a piece. That's $300,000 a year, plus the hundreds of open-air loges that are available for inflated prices.I was surprised to see that people payed what they did for those seats, but if people are willing to pay then why not take advantage of that?

[Captain Kangaroo]

All of your examples are losses. Thank-you for helping me prove my point.

How does one loss cripple a football program? It doesn't. If any MAC program is worthy of a bowl game, it wins 6 or 7 of it's remaining 11 games. If you can't win 6 with a MAC East + average OOC schedule, you should be visiting family on Christmas, not preparing for a bowl.What value is placed on media exposure. How much national air-time did OU get as they crept closer and closer to an upset at Ohio State a few weeks ago? A TON. After our two competitive visits to Wisconsin, quite a few people gained respect and recognition for Akron Football who otherwise would be oblivious.If OU doesn't make a bowl game this year, it won't be because they lost to Ohio State, it will be because they lost to K.e.n.t. State. Or Akron. Or Buffalo. And when an OU grad interviews for a job in Pennsylvania this winter, and the interviewer sees "Ohio University" on his re'sume', he stands a good chance of a conversation-starter like "Hey, you guys gave Ohio State a good run this fall, didn't you?" arising.Play one game a year against an upper-tier BCS school. It's a no-brainer.

[Captain Kangaroo]

This has always been my understanding of the cost of the football program. It is 25% of the Athletic Department costs. I understand it takes around $13 million to run the A. Dept., so 25% of that is $3.25 million. A 25,000 seat stadium x 6 home games x $20 ASP for a ticket = $3 million. With parking, food/drinks/merchandise and suite fees, they should be able to cover the $3.25 million if they can sell out all of their games. That's best case. Whatever the case is, they will be better off than the Rubber Bowl.

You're forgetting the real money-maker that was designed into the stadium plans: luxury suites. There of 15 of them, all sold out for at least the next three years, at $20,000 a piece. That's $300,000 a year, plus the hundreds of open-air loges that are available for inflated prices.I was surprised to see that people payed what they did for those seats, but if people are willing to pay then why not take advantage of that?

They sold really quick. Hence I think they were sold too cheaply.

[UA1987]

All of your examples are losses. Thank-you for helping me prove my point.

How does one loss cripple a football program? It doesn't. If any MAC program is worthy of a bowl game, it wins 6 or 7 of it's remaining 11 games. If you can't win 6 with a MAC East + average OOC schedule, you should be visiting family on Christmas, not preparing for a bowl.What value is placed on media exposure. How much national air-time did OU get as they crept closer and closer to an upset at Ohio State a few weeks ago? A TON. After our two competitive visits to Wisconsin, quite a few people gained respect and recognition for Akron Football who otherwise would be oblivious.If OU doesn't make a bowl game this year, it won't be because they lost to Ohio State, it will be because they lost to K.e.n.t. State. Or Akron. Or Buffalo. And when an OU grad interviews for a job in Pennsylvania this winter, and the interviewer sees "Ohio University" on his re'sume', he stands a good chance of a conversation-starter like "Hey, you guys gave Ohio State a good run this fall, didn't you?" arising.Play one game a year against an upper-tier BCS school. It's a no-brainer.

I've got to tell you I'm amused when you keep saying you don't need to use your brain. That's OK at the beer pub, but not with the forward scheduling strategy of Akron Football. These bad contracts perpetuate a 'cupcake' reputation and make up a substantial percent of our schedule as we only play 12 games. We could actually miss bowl eligibilty by not obtaining 6 wins. Try thinking about this... we go 11-1, in the future, and then we play Penn State (they might be 7-5) in a nice bowl game (sounds a bit like what Boise State did with Oklahoma... hey Mo did you hear that, wise guys). You could then go to Florida and drink your good ale in the warm sunshine and not be missing out a bit on game travel with the Super Bigs and Akron Football gets to develop and maintain a winning tradition.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Tip of the Day -- Read posts prior to responding. It will save you valuable typing time.

We could actually miss bowl eligibilty by not obtaining 6 wins.

Previously explained --

How does one loss cripple a football program? It doesn't. If any MAC program is worthy of a bowl game, it wins 6 or 7 of it's remaining 11 games. If you can't win 6 with a MAC East + average OOC schedule, you should be visiting family on Christmas, not preparing for a bowl.

Next --

These bad contracts...make up a substantial percent of our schedule as we only play 12 games.

Previously explained --

Do we play more than one? No. But that's a moot point since Mack is already on record saying or future scheduling model will only consist of one upper-tier, BCS "money game."

Saving you the math: 1/12 = 8.3%. You gotta explain to me how 8.3% is substantial. If it is indeed substantial, what is, oh say...50%? SUPER DUPER BIGGIE substantial? And also explain what percentage is considered not substantial (please remember you cannot play a fractional game...whole numbers only).BTW - If you want to give the Athletics Department the $500,000+ net it would lose by playing a CUSA team in lieu of a Penn State...I GUARANTEE you they'll take your money and schedule Middle Tennessee.

[GP1]

This has always been my understanding of the cost of the football program. It is 25% of the Athletic Department costs. I understand it takes around $13 million to run the A. Dept., so 25% of that is $3.25 million. A 25,000 seat stadium x 6 home games x $20 ASP for a ticket = $3 million. With parking, food/drinks/merchandise and suite fees, they should be able to cover the $3.25 million if they can sell out all of their games. That's best case. Whatever the case is, they will be better off than the Rubber Bowl.

You're forgetting the real money-maker that was designed into the stadium plans: luxury suites.

Are you sure?

[GP1]

This has always been my understanding of the cost of the football program. It is 25% of the Athletic Department costs. I understand it takes around $13 million to run the A. Dept., so 25% of that is $3.25 million. A 25,000 seat stadium x 6 home games x $20 ASP for a ticket = $3 million. With parking, food/drinks/merchandise and suite fees, they should be able to cover the $3.25 million if they can sell out all of their games. That's best case. Whatever the case is, they will be better off than the Rubber Bowl.

You're forgetting the real money-maker that was designed into the stadium plans: luxury suites. There of 15 of them, all sold out for at least the next three years, at $20,000 a piece. That's $300,000 a year, plus the hundreds of open-air loges that are available for inflated prices.I was surprised to see that people payed what they did for those seats, but if people are willing to pay then why not take advantage of that?

They sold really quick. Hence I think they were sold too cheaply.

You shouldn't "think" they were sold too cheaply, you should "know" they were sold too cheaply. Unless, "Sold 100% of all luxury suites in (fill in the blank) months" is a new line on a resume for a young and ambitious AD with his eye on the next rung. Starting the construction of a new sports facility is a good way to pad your resume. I look for Mack to move on after this football season or next. Moving on after this season would make sense.

[GoZips]

You shouldn't "think" they were sold too cheaply, you should "know" they were sold too cheaply. Unless, "Sold 100% of all luxury suites in (fill in the blank) months" is a new line on a resume for a young and ambitious AD with his eye on the next rung. Starting the construction of a new sports facility is a good way to pad your resume. I look for Mack to move on after this football season or next. Moving on after this season would make sense.

GP1, Mack is not likely to hike out of Zippyland until he pulls off the really big deal.With the Big East due to realign after the 2010 football season and Akron and a few other schoolsworking to position themselves to gain one of the new conference memberships about to be offered,do not look for Mack Rhoades to skedaddle until he gets the Zips into the Big East or C-USA.C-USA will have at least one open membership when Memphis jumps to the Big East. C-USA is aback up for Akron if they do not get admitted to the Big East.At any rate, a jump up in conference affiliation along with building a stadium looks really good on one's resume.

[UA1987]

Tip of the Day -- Read posts prior to responding. It will save you valuable typing time.

We could actually miss bowl eligibilty by not obtaining 6 wins.

Previously explained --

How does one loss cripple a football program? It doesn't. If any MAC program is worthy of a bowl game, it wins 6 or 7 of it's remaining 11 games. If you can't win 6 with a MAC East + average OOC schedule, you should be visiting family on Christmas, not preparing for a bowl.

Next --

These bad contracts...make up a substantial percent of our schedule as we only play 12 games.

Previously explained --

Do we play more than one? No. But that's a moot point since Mack is already on record saying or future scheduling model will only consist of one upper-tier, BCS "money game."

Saving you the math: 1/12 = 8.3%. You gotta explain to me how 8.3% is substantial. If it is indeed substantial, what is, oh say...50%? SUPER DUPER BIGGIE substantial? And also explain what percentage is considered not substantial (please remember you cannot play a fractional game...whole numbers only).BTW - If you want to give the Athletics Department the $500,000+ net it would lose by playing a CUSA team in lieu of a Penn State...I GUARANTEE you they'll take your money and schedule Middle Tennessee.

Homer, I mean Captain Kangaroo, I just can't make you drink (maybe if I tell you what I'm talking about somehow involves free beer you would listen). Over the long term we would be millions ahead. How about scheduling Louisville, Pittsburg, UTEP, Memphis, Marshall, Houston, ect... and keep Cinci, Syracuse, Indiana on the forward schedule along with playing the Minnesota's, and Kentucky's (oh, we pissed them off) of the world. Nah, that might lead to a new conference affilation and more revenue for the University. Drink (B-E-E-R) in the strategy... a light bulb may just go on.

[flipthezip]

You shouldn't "think" they were sold too cheaply, you should "know" they were sold too cheaply. Unless, "Sold 100% of all luxury suites in (fill in the blank) months" is a new line on a resume for a young and ambitious AD with his eye on the next rung. Starting the construction of a new sports facility is a good way to pad your resume. I look for Mack to move on after this football season or next. Moving on after this season would make sense.

GP1, Mack is not likely to hike out of Zippyland until he pulls off the really big deal.With the Big East due to realign after the 2010 football season and Akron and a few other schoolsworking to position themselves to gain one of the new conference memberships about to be offered,do not look for Mack Rhoades to skedaddle until he gets the Zips into the Big East or C-USA.C-USA will have at least one open membership when Memphis jumps to the Big East. C-USA is aback up for Akron if they do not get admitted to the Big East.At any rate, a jump up in conference affiliation along with building a stadium looks really good on one's resume.

If he pulled this off, why would he leave? His next step from Akron would be to a Big East or C-USA school. If we become one, why wouldn't he stay and prove himself for several years developing Akron into a force in the new conference and then take off for a "power" conference school.

[g-mann17]

If he pulled this off, why would he leave? His next step from Akron would be to a Big East or C-USA school. If we become one, why wouldn't he stay and prove himself for several years developing Akron into a force in the new conference and then take off for a "power" conference school.

And you just answered the question of "Is Mack leaving anytime soon?"If in 2010 a conference announcement is not made, then "Buh-Bye" Rhoades. But please don't think he is jumping ship before then because he was the AD when the Stadium that was planned 2 AD's ago is finally getting completed.He signed with with 3 major goals1. Improve the University athletic program's academic standing. (not completely accomplished; football graduation rate resulting in NCAA sanctions, other sports represented well in Academic All American fashion with acceptable graduation rates)2. Improve the University's overall athletic facilities. (football stadium, softball, still need improvements to soccer stadium, baseball facilities: not accomplished)3. Position the University for advancement to a more prestigious conference. (association with Big East in several sports, track, golf, football, soccer, rifle, diving: not accomplished) This is not the resume of a person who is leaving at the end of the year.

[zen]

I don't feel like C-USA is much of an upward move based on the fact that having most of those teams on your regular schedule doesn't do much more for your program in the eyes of the fans and media in our area.... and then you have the expenses of more distant away games. The Big East would make a difference in the perception of the status and quality of opponents, IMHO

[GP1]

You shouldn't "think" they were sold too cheaply, you should "know" they were sold too cheaply. Unless, "Sold 100% of all luxury suites in (fill in the blank) months" is a new line on a resume for a young and ambitious AD with his eye on the next rung. Starting the construction of a new sports facility is a good way to pad your resume. I look for Mack to move on after this football season or next. Moving on after this season would make sense.

GP1, Mack is not likely to hike out of Zippyland until he pulls off the really big deal.With the Big East due to realign after the 2010 football season and Akron and a few other schoolsworking to position themselves to gain one of the new conference memberships about to be offered,do not look for Mack Rhoades to skedaddle until he gets the Zips into the Big East or C-USA.C-USA will have at least one open membership when Memphis jumps to the Big East. C-USA is aback up for Akron if they do not get admitted to the Big East.At any rate, a jump up in conference affiliation along with building a stadium looks really good on one's resume.

All good points. In the end, jumping a conference is not a relevant job skill for the next job Mack will be looking for unless he wants to limit his job search to only a handful of schools looking to jump conference or another MAC type school. He will not want to limit his possibilities.Mack came to Akron with a reputation for generating revenue. Schools want money more than anything. The kind of school Mack will be looking at next have almost all the facilities they need and will want a guy who can bring in cash.....and lots of it. He can manipulate the conditions at Akron to show a jump in revenue. Building a stadium takes a lot more than just one person and it is hard to dupe even the people who sit in university hiring boards into believing he did it all by himself.

[ZachTheZip]

I don't feel like C-USA is much of an upward move based on the fact that having most of those teams on your regular schedule doesn't do much more for your program in the eyes of the fans and media in our area.... and then you have the expenses of more distant away games. The Big East would make a difference in the perception of the status and quality of opponents, IMHO

If Memphis moves to the Big East, then we would have no incentive to move to C-USA. They lose the only thing that puts them ahead of the MAC in any sport.

[Zips Win!]

(OSU would be an exception)

What am I missing? You rip the AD for scheduling Penn State, yet tosu is an exception? Huh?Over the last decade PSU has been pretty good a few years and really average the others. Take the chance we catch them on a down year and take the cash as well. I am banking on Mack getting FMV for the game, unlike what tosu paid us last year- yet you want to schedule them?

[UA1987]

(OSU would be an exception)

What am I missing? You rip the AD for scheduling Penn State, yet tosu is an exception? Huh?Over the last decade PSU has been pretty good a few years and really average the others. Take the chance we catch them on a down year and take the cash as well. I am banking on Mack getting FMV for the game, unlike what tosu paid us last year- yet you want to schedule them?

Over half of our team hails from Ohio. It is the dream of almost every young football player from Ohio to play for OSU. Where have you been? Ohio State has developed a history and a winning tradition. A game in Ohio Stadium is truely a recruiting tool for those athletes that get snubbed by that program. So there's your exception. Duh.

[zippyrifle32]

a few points:* with all this money quoting I suggest people take a look at this to see the importance/unimportance of having a big money game.* along with a new stadium, it will cost to keep the building in operation. it will be used a lot more than just game day seeing as there are going to be locker rooms and classrooms in there as well. This should be kept in consideration when spouting off the "profit" we should expect to make.* Mack has said he isn't going anywhere for a while. Granted, it is an assumption that he would be an honest guy, but he had given no reason to make me believe other wise. Anyone saying the opposite is a Can't troll. * C-USA would still be an improvement over the MAC because they get more money through contracts. There is more to conference affiliation than just the competitiveness of the member institutions I expect to see the MAC with a better ESPN contract soon. Don't know how good it will be, but should be an improvement. * as far as "manipulating conditions" to show an increase in revenue, why is it so hard to believe that we might actually have made more money than before?* finally, UA1987, while you have made it clear that you disagree with the strategy that is being used, I have a feeling that you are missing quite a bit of information that goes into the scheduling decisions. Now I am not claiming to be an expert on the workings of the athletic department, rather I find your "solution" to be rather simplistic and only take into account a couple of issues. Again, I would suggest going to the source of the decisions for an explanation of the reasoning behind the strategy before you get yourself too worked up.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Homer, I mean Captain Kangaroo, I just can't make you drink (maybe if I tell you what I'm talking about somehow involves free beer you would listen). Over the long term we would be millions ahead. How about scheduling Louisville, Pittsburg, UTEP, Memphis, Marshall, Houston, ect... and keep Cinci, Syracuse, Indiana on the forward schedule along with playing the Minnesota's, and Kentucky's (oh, we pissed them off) of the world. Nah, that might lead to a new conference affilation and more revenue for the University. Drink (B-E-E-R) in the strategy... a light bulb may just go on.

Your "beer" quips are really cute. And, they are a great way to avoid substance. Stating it is OK to play OSU, but Penn State is TOTALLY different? That's great too. Especially if you qualify it with a "Duh."There's a reason GP1 has the tag line:"...you want it to be one way. But it's the other way." It's for you.

[UA1987]

Homer, I mean Captain Kangaroo, I just can't make you drink (maybe if I tell you what I'm talking about somehow involves free beer you would listen). Over the long term we would be millions ahead. How about scheduling Louisville, Pittsburg, UTEP, Memphis, Marshall, Houston, ect... and keep Cinci, Syracuse, Indiana on the forward schedule along with playing the Minnesota's, and Kentucky's (oh, we pissed them off) of the world. Nah, that might lead to a new conference affilation and more revenue for the University. Drink (B-E-E-R) in the strategy... a light bulb may just go on.

Your "beer" quips are really cute. And, they are a great way to avoid substance. Stating it is OK to play OSU, but Penn State is TOTALLY different? That's great too. Especially if you qualify it with a "Duh."There's a reason GP1 has the tag line:"...you want it to be one way. But it's the other way." It's for you.

This beer's for you Homer.

[g-mann17]

Over half of our team hails from Ohio. It is the dream of almost every young football player from Ohio to play for OSU. Where have you been? Ohio State has developed a history and a winning tradition. A game in Ohio Stadium is truely a recruiting tool for those athletes that get snubbed by that program. So there's your exception. Duh.

Your logic fails to recognize people that hate OSU (and no I don't mean us Zips fan boys) but there are plenty of people in Ohio that grow up dreaming of playing at Michigan, Penn State, or Michigan State to play where their childhood heroes played.You have a very Ohio-centric view point. And considering that only about 40% of our roster hails from Ohio completely negates your "OSU is a different story" argument. Fact is playing big time programs are a viable recruiting tool for non-BCS schools. No matter who the big time program is. It's the good ole "prove you're better" type deal. Bottom line, if you are going to argue against the money game, you argue against all money games. You don't get to pick and choose.

[UA1987]

Over half of our team hails from Ohio. It is the dream of almost every young football player from Ohio to play for OSU. Where have you been? Ohio State has developed a history and a winning tradition. A game in Ohio Stadium is truely a recruiting tool for those athletes that get snubbed by that program. So there's your exception. Duh.

Your logic fails to recognize people that hate OSU (and no I don't mean us Zips fan boys) but there are plenty of people in Ohio that grow up dreaming of playing at Michigan, Penn State, or Michigan State to play where their childhood heroes played.You have a very Ohio-centric view point. And considering that only about 40% of our roster hails from Ohio completely negates your "OSU is a different story" argument. Fact is playing big time programs are a viable recruiting tool for non-BCS schools. No matter who the big time program is. It's the good ole "prove you're better" type deal. Bottom line, if you are going to argue against the money game, you argue against all money games. You don't get to pick and choose.

You and the many other posters on this board hate OSU because of jerk fair weather OSU fans rubbing your nose where you don't want it rubbed. I knew my post would provoke a post like yours. How can you argue against the observation that most young kids in Ohio love OSU (except during Cooper's tenure when Michigan beat them often)... as long as they are winning and win they do. Recruits that get snubbed by Ohio State would love to get a chance to prove them wrong. It's only human nature and a good recruiting strategy would take advantage of that. Ohio-Centric - we are in Akron, Ohio, and Ohio is where we recruit most heavily (40% or 50% - only nerds would bring this difference up; 50% is a fair estimate of team numbers on average and more that representaitve of Akron's recruiting effort). If we could just develop that winning tradition that I'd like to see we would have even more recruits from Ohio and might even steal some from that school in Columbus that you hate.

[Zips Win!]

(OSU would be an exception)

What am I missing? You rip the AD for scheduling Penn State, yet tosu is an exception? Huh?Over the last decade PSU has been pretty good a few years and really average the others. Take the chance we catch them on a down year and take the cash as well. I am banking on Mack getting FMV for the game, unlike what tosu paid us last year- yet you want to schedule them?

Over half of our team hails from Ohio. It is the dream of almost every young football player from Ohio to play for OSU. Where have you been? Ohio State has developed a history and a winning tradition. A game in Ohio Stadium is truely a recruiting tool for those athletes that get snubbed by that program. So there's your exception. Duh.

What a stupid exception! Is sounds like you just want to watch OSU. Now playing tosu is a recruiting tool, yet a very large number of current players on the roster hail from Pennsylvania and playing PSU isn't a recruiting tool? Ridiculous.I thought you wanted wins...not recruiting tools...

[UA1987]

(OSU would be an exception)

What am I missing? You rip the AD for scheduling Penn State, yet tosu is an exception? Huh?Over the last decade PSU has been pretty good a few years and really average the others. Take the chance we catch them on a down year and take the cash as well. I am banking on Mack getting FMV for the game, unlike what tosu paid us last year- yet you want to schedule them?

Over half of our team hails from Ohio. It is the dream of almost every young football player from Ohio to play for OSU. Where have you been? Ohio State has developed a history and a winning tradition. A game in Ohio Stadium is truely a recruiting tool for those athletes that get snubbed by that program. So there's your exception. Duh.

What a stupid exception! Is sounds like you just want to watch OSU. Now playing tosu is a recruiting tool, yet a very large number of current players on the roster hail from Pennsylvania and playing PSU isn't a recruiting tool? Ridiculous.I thought you wanted wins...not recruiting tools...

What are you 12 years old. I don't talk to little kiddies if I can help it. Welcome to my ignore list.

[GP1]

* as far as "manipulating conditions" to show an increase in revenue, why is it so hard to believe that we might actually have made more money than before?

I meant this in a positive way. It's not hard to believe they make more money than before. The presentation of the increase in how much money is made could be one form of manipulation. For example, increasing revenue sounds really good if it is presented as, "increased revenue 150%". That would impress a lot of people.

[GP1]

You and the many other posters on this board hate OSU because of jerk fair weather OSU fans

You could have just ended the sentence there......I'd like to end this discussion of OSU football with the following quote from Kirk Herbstreit after the OSU beat down by USC, "The Big Ten is the joke of college football and Ohio State is the punch line".