Will a win against Can't State carry ANY meaning

ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net · October 31, 2009

On Rasor's blog he ends with:'Akron will next embark on "Mission: Salvage the Season." Can't State visits InfoCision Stadium on Saturday for a 3:30 kickoff. If the Zips lose this rivalry game, 2009 will be a failure of Biblical proportions.'/Vent Mode On/Sorry, but this season has been so completely disappointing and un-entertaining, a win against the Portage County heroes will mean less than nothing. The whole contrived rivalry thing with Can't State is stupid to begin with, when it comes to football. Real rivalries are for good programs, where the rivalry counts for something. It only means something when both teams are good, or have a tradition of being so. The rivalry between the Browns and Steelers has meant little for many years now because the Browns aren't worthy of claiming such a rivalry anymore. UA and Can't State are both bad football schools and have been so for many years. Neither of these sad-sack programs should ever boast a rivalry with anybody until they start to win consistently. I was hoping that UA, with the new stadium and investments related to it, would finally start to become a football program worthy of our positive attention. They aren't. This game with Can't State means absolutely nothing and if UA wins I won't cheer as if the win somehow magically makes this year any less terrible and disappointing than it's been./Vent Mode Off/STZ

johnnyzip84 · October 31, 2009

You have no clue what a "rivalry game" is.

ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net · October 31, 2009

Really? Should the rivalry have meant something, some time, ever? Will you feel better about this season if the Zips somehow beat their cousins from Portage County?

akronad · October 31, 2009

When you figure out what rivalries really mean let me know. Regardless of both teams records, anything could or should happen. BTW, Don't look now, but Can't is a in a very good position and has competed well in this league this year. It wouldplease me to no end to be able to be a spoiler and put a damper on teir seas.And for those that really care, and I still hope there are a few of us out there, it is Saturday at 7:55 PM and Can't State STILL SUCKS.

ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net · November 1, 2009

Shouldn't a rivalry exist for some actual reason? Can't State and UA are near each other, but both of these programs have been so sad sack for so long that thinking about this game as any sort of real rivalry means nothing. I mean sure, I go along and throw in an occasional "Can't Sucks" on the boards for the fun of it, but can any of you actually say that you either hold genuine enmity for Can't State, or that you care more about this game than any other game, especially in a season like this? Think about it. Real sports rivalries exist for some cultural reason, or they exist because both teams were powers at some point and both teams knew that they would perennially have to beat the other to make it some next level. No non-contrived reasons exist to hate the Can't State football program. In fact the opposite is true. They've been so bad for so long that it's more logical to simply pity them. Same goes for UA, especially this year. How about we actually win something, you know, like a few games one of these years, before worrying about what's happening with Can't State?STZ

you am i · November 1, 2009

Sorry, but I can't really believe this subject is up for discussion.

tbozeglav · November 1, 2009

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon_Wheel_%28trophy%29Just posting this for informational purposes...

ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net · November 1, 2009

Yepper, I'm quite familiar with the wagon wheel. You'll notice that the wiki page on it is about three small paragraphs long. That's passion baby!Seriously, I understand that it's part of ZN orthodoxy to appear to hate the Can't State football program. I ask, why? The Hatfields and McCoys hated each other for reasons. OSU and Michigan hate each other because each had to get through the other to get to the Rose Bowl for decades. Browns and Stillers is a cultural thing at its core, Appalachia versus the old Western Reserve. Without simply sneering at me, how about explaining what exactly it is about Can't State that I'm supposed to hate. Their powerful football program? Their history of winning? Them getting in the way of our powerhouse program?STZ

johnnyzip84 · November 1, 2009

I think it's your definition that is in error. The following is a short list of classic "college rivalries". On MANY occasions, these games do not have a significant impact on the national or conference races.Purdue-IndianaWashington St-WashingtonCalifornia-StanfordKansas-MissouriBowling Green-ToledoOhio-MiamiPitt-West VirginiaIllinois-NorthwesternCincinnati-LouisvilleWhile it's cousin, the pro "rivalry", may live off the need for "meaningful" games, the college rivalry is far more rooted in history and tradition. When a (for instance) one-win Washington State Cougar team can defeat the winless Washington Huskies in the Apple Cup (happened last year) and players on both sides are physically and emotionally spent afterwards because this is the game that ALWAYS matters, that is the ESSENCE of a college rivalry. Would a Zip win over the flushes in any way make up for the "suckiness" we've already seen so far this year? Of course not. Would it be anywhere near enough to save JD's job? Highly unlikely. But the assertion that the battle for the Wagon Wheel is somehow a "trumped up" or bogus "rivalry" is just plain wrong. How about asking ANYONE who has participated in any of these clashes (players, coaches, administrators) over the years and see what they have to say about it.Would I feel better about the season as a whole if the Zips win? Of course, if only because I KNOW I will feel a whole lot worse if they lose. But also because I want the ship to be at least turned in the right direction. I don't care that JD will likely not be there next year. I want some positives for these kids to take into the off-season. Finally, this recruiting season could become very difficult, in spite of the Info factor, if we lose this game.Having said all of that, I think Can't will be a deserved 7 point (or more) favorite. And it's going to take better effort and execution than we've come to expect to beat them. But that's not going to stop me from rooting for the Zips with as much zeal as I can muster come Saturday.

ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net · November 1, 2009

I suppose that I would scoff at most of those rivalries and would heap them into a giant bin of Who Cares. I'll take a shot at each:1) Indiana-Purdue. Yawn. Who could possibly care who wins this one, unless one is spoiling that rare 5-win season for the other?2) Washington-Washington State. What makes this a rivalry game? I don't know and I don't care.3) Cal-Stanford. There is a natural cultural reason for this rivalry. To parrot the typical NorCal fan, Cal is a state university, being part of the excellent UC system, where students envision themselves as winners in a meritocracy, while Stanford is the snooty snobby rich-kid school where daddy warbucks can buy your way in. 4) Kansas-Missouri. This one is likely cultural as well, and I would guess that there are political explanations dating to the civil war underpinning this rivalry.5) BGSU-Toledo. What has this game ever meant? Nothing, actually.6) Ohio-Miami. Something to do with Miami being the self-perceived best school ever, whilst Ohio seems to think that it matters that theirs was the first university in the state, or some such. Again, who cares?7) Pitt-WVU. This is pure McCoy and Hatfield, Appalachian rivalry. It probably also includes urban versus rural elements. I'd love to know more about this one and bet there is some old, bad blood between these two teams. 8) Illini-Northwestern. More of the state-versus-private snobbishness here. Once you get past that this game is another that means absolutely nothing, year in and year out.9) Cinci-Louisville. Probably some sort of quasi-North-versus-South thing going on here. I suppose there are those who work hard to generate some level of animosity for some of these games each year, but again, someone explain to me what it is about Can't State, other than their proximity, that serves as a legitimate reason for this rivalry. We all know many very similar types of people who went to both schools. I can't say I know even one Can't State family, or a UA family. I can see caring more about the "rivalry" on the basketball court, but in football? I will cheer with zeal for the Zips, but it won't be because I care more about Can't State as an opponent than any of the other MAC schools that trot in here.STZ

akronad · November 1, 2009

So, STZ you are telling us that you are only a PT Zips fan. Win and I am in your corner, lose and I scoff at you. While the the rivalry game between the Zips and Flushes might seem meaningless to you, it will mean plenty to both teams and will be bragging rights for NE Ohio football. also, does this mean that for basketball that even both teams have had winng records that it is a rivalry, but if both teams are doomed in the MAC and have no chance of winning the MAC title and going on that the rivalry means less. I think not. I think that you need to rethink you stratedgy.

w00t · November 1, 2009

Thread should have ended right here.

you am i · November 1, 2009

I can name few other rivalry games: Army-Navy; Harvard-Yale. Most years, I don't really care who wins those games, but I do recognize them as fierce rivalries for their fans. If you look at that list, its obvious that proximity breeds a natural rivalry, and not many schools are closer than Akron and Can't. I'm suprised the Akron-Can't game doesn't mean anything special to you. Its the game I look forward to all year.

Zip Watcher · November 1, 2009

I'm blown away by the unveiling of STZ as a casual or new Zips fan. Staggered .. blown away. There are few words.This is a topic that can't be explained .. one of those thing that is inherent .. not necessarily in-borne .. but not necessarily learned. For a Zips fan to ask this question is amazing to me.And on one of those other posts, you question many of the long standing traditional rivalries. I was born into and joined by education the Old Oaken Bucket Game. I can tell you without hesitation that the ONLY truly BAD season for a Boilers fan is the rare one which includes a loss to IU. Heck,before Tiller, a coach at Purdue that could go 2-10 with wins vs. ND & IU would likely get raises and extensions each December. Those games matter .. big time. As the Can't State game does.That's all I have to say about that.Go Zips!!!

flipthezip · November 1, 2009

I was looking at next weeks game as a chance to beat Can't which is always nice and as a way to take some positives from this year.THAT HAS ALL CHANGED!!!!!Listening to some of the wrap up today from the Can't game and there was discussion about next weeks game. It was being stated how ready for the game Can't is due to the payback they wish to deliver for the stadium vandalism. Also for the pictures of the Zips with the wagon wheel that were apparently sent to them. They are ready to come into Infocision and take it back as well as to have bragging rights of winning in their first trip to our new stadium.Screw them!!!! Take it to them boys and remind them despite our problems this season that at the end of the day :screwks:

ZachTheZip · November 1, 2009

They're still mad that their own fans vandalized their stadium? I guess I would be mad too.

GJGood · November 1, 2009

Two words...LOCAL RECRUITS

tbozeglav · November 1, 2009

Not to mention people who have had sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles, cousins, friends, coworkers who went to the two schools

zip37 · November 1, 2009

My daddy graduated from WVU, and taught me to HATE PITT, and I do, for no other reason thanthat. I attended lots of WVU-PITT games in Morgantown, and believe me the 2 schools hate one another. Don't know the reason other than proximity.As for UA-Can't State, I attended both schools and I hated Can't State when I was there as student that comes from moving to the area in late 50s and followed the Zipssince then, at that time Can't State did not play us in FB but the basketball rivalry was intense!Having gone to both schools I can say :screwks:

skip-zip · November 1, 2009

I don't know why this topic ever started either, but I will chime in.I'm glad some people brought up the recruiting aspect. When we lost at Can't a few years ago, I knew that if that trend continued, we'd have some disadvantages that didn't exist previously. So, when we beat them at the Rubber Bowl the following year, I thought it was a vitally important win for the future of our program. I have no doubt that a recruit who is considering either Can't or Akron pays attention to how the programs have fared against each other in recent years. And if that loss started any kind of trend of Can't superiority over us, it would have hurt our recruiting efforts for many years. I don't think rivalries are something that are designated by somebody. They form themselves through the history, the matchups, and the attitudes of the players and fans. And the close proximity of the schools, and some of the animosities that have taken place over the years fuels the fire even more, and is proof that this game means a lot to players and fans, no matter what their records are. I have a sick feeling in my stomach for days on the rare occassions that we have lost this game over the past few decades. And I know other Akronites that feel the same. If that's not a rivalry, I don't know what is.

Let'sGoZips94 · November 1, 2009

People don't let friends or family go to Can't State. That's what I was taught. It's my GOLDEN RULE. About the rivalry, growing up, my dad pretty much brainwashed me to hate Can't and LOVE the Zips. My mom always tells me the story of how when I was 2, we were driving home from a Zips game and my dad was whistling the Zips fight song. At the end, apparently I woke up and said "GO ZIPS!" then fell back asleep. Back then (in the mid to late 90s), I don't remember too much football, but I do remember a lot of basketball. I remember going to Can't with my parents when I was like 3 to watch the Zips play them in basketball. Each game was a brutal battle until the end. I remember a game at Akron. It was a pretty meaningful game in like '97 or '98. The winner I think was MAC East Champions. Well, Akron lost a close one, but it was one of the most exciting games ever. Every person in the stands was standing and making tons of noise. The rivalry is in my blood. I absolutely loathe Can't State. Throughout middle school, my 5th grade science teacher (who was a Can't fan) would decorate the school in Can't stuff and my Dad and I would go around and cover it all up with Akron stuff. The rivalry is just something you have to believe in to fully understand (I might get ripped for that, but I couldn't think of any better to say it). The more you believe in it, the more it's intensified and the more exciting it is. By the way, is Can't still colorblind? Do they still think their colors are Blue and Gold? :puke:

Oh well, I think the Zips are gonna take care of business. I've been pretty hard on them, but if JD is good at one thing, it's beating Can't. :screwks:

ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net · November 1, 2009

Several posters have expressed alarm that another poster would dare question ZN orthodoxy. Others have accused me of being barely a fan. Only a couple posters have actually bothered to talk about other rivalry games, or to provide logical explanations regarding the extremely tepid UA/Can't State rivalry in football. For Zip37, I'd love to hear more about Pitt/WVU. Was there a cultural aspect to the game? Coal versus steel? Urban versus rural? For Zip Watcher, what underpins the rivalry between Purdue and Indiana? There has to be some underlying animosity there. Proximity isn't enough, and I certainly hope that you are more intellectually curious than to accept your daddy's fan biases and never ask the question "why" about those biases.When it comes to recruiting, I can see that since the schools sometimes compete for recruits and play in the same conference, it could matter. Are any of you actually aware of any recruit having chosen one over the other because of the wagon wheel game? Lastly, I'm annoyed that the Can't State game seems so important to some Zips fans, because most years it's an utterly meaningless game between two terrible football programs. Is that what you want? Is that where you'd like to continue to pour your energy as fans? Beating Can't State should be like breathing. It should be a complete given every year. To me the Can't State "rivalry" is an indication of how low-brow this program has been since I was a kid. If you say to an adult in your extended family, who attended Can't State, that you were excited because UA beat Can't State for the wagon wheel, they would likely laugh at you and walk away. Is that a meaningful rivalry game? "Yahoo, our number 117-ranked team just beat the number 112-ranked team in the country!!"How about we aim higher. How about we expect that Can't State be a charity gimme game every year as this program ascends. How about we not cover for this failure of a season by wishing for a very unlikely victory over Can't State. And yes, my interest as a UA fan has been re-kindled by UA's previously apparent effort to drive this program into greener pastures. I was excited by Infocision, by the positioning of it as a cornerstone of the university footprint. I was convinced that these efforts would lead UA to something better than being a crappy MAC doormat. So far this year, there are no signs yet that this program is building toward bigger and better, but I want to see recruiting this off season, I want to see what Proenza does to open up the checkbook and bring in a credible college coaching staff, I want to see what Wistrcill does with scheduling. If the commitment to building something good does not continue many fans, including me, will likely slide into ambivalence regarding UA football. Fanhood unrequited is not worth giving over the long term. STZ

zip37 · November 1, 2009

STZ-- Don't know the reason for the lothing of both schools for one another. Pitt is a private, urban school & WVU is [or was] a state small town Univthat may have something to do with it. Maybe Pitt didn't like the fact that the WVU area made some pretty fine moonshine. My dad died in 1977 and Pitt's winning the national championship in FB may have had something to do with that [ ].

Zipgrad1990 · November 1, 2009

I was annoyed by all the Can't State basketball success over the last 10+ years and their 10 years in a row of 20 wins or more. The reason I was annoyed was I always thought Akron Basketball should have been the successful one as 20 years ago we had Coach Huggins and a program on the rise.Now I see a Can't State football team which has had more success this year then UA and I am slightly concerned that history will repeat itself (doubtful, we don't have a good football coach on the rise this time), so yes I want UA to beat Can't State! Will it make for a successful season? Of course not, but it will take some of the sting out of this horrible season. Akron-Can't is a bigger basketball rivary but even in football it is fun to beat Can't State! :screwks:

Zipmeister · November 1, 2009

Bad news and good news for stz: you're only young once, but you can be stupid forever. :thumb:

Will a win against Can't State carry ANY meaning

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