Warm Weather Programs

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

OK, we've all heard the inane arguments from some here about how warm weather programs are (generically) better, how the best athletes want to play in warm weather, that the cold weather programs are "second tier" or worse, and are generally doomed. This morning I took a few seconds to actually look at where programs ended up this season. I pulled the last AP poll and noted very few differences between it and the other major polls. Anyway, take a look and see more comments below.1 Alabama (58) 13-0 (SEC) 2 Texas (2) 13-0 (Big12)3 TCU 12-0 (MWC)4 Cincinnati 12-0 (BigEast)5 Florida 12-1 (SEC)6 Boise State 13-0 (WAC)7 Oregon 10-2 (Pac10)8 Ohio State 10-2 (Big10)9 Georgia Tech 11-2 (ACC)10 Iowa 10-2 (Big10)11 Penn State 10-2 (Big10)12 Virginia Tech 9-3 (ACC)13 LSU 9-3 (SEC)14 Miami (FL) 9-3 (ACC)15 Brigham Young 10-2 (MWC)16 Oregon State 8-4 (Pac10)17 Pittsburgh 9-3 (BigEast)18 West Virginia 9-3 (BigEast)19 Stanford 8-4 (Pac10)20 Nebraska 9-4 (Big12)21 Oklahoma State 9-3 (Big12)22 Arizona 8-4 (Pac10) 23 Utah 9-3 (MWC)24 Wisconsin 9-3 (Big10)25 Central Michigan 11-2 (MAC)Now, you'll note that 15 of these programs are in (relatively speaking) cold weather country. That hardly speaks to warm weather conference dominance. You will also note that in the Top 25 there are 3, count 'em, 3 SEC teams listed. The "old-fashioned", traditional power conferences, the Big10 and Pac10, hold 8 of the top 25 slots in the country. All 3 BigEast teams are cold weather teams. 2 of the 3 MWC teams are cold weather teams. Lastly, 2 of the 3 Big12 teams are also cold weather teams. Take a look at the teams and visualize where they are in the country. A large number of these programs are in NON garden spots, places in the meaty middle of the country where it's miserable during both the summer AND the winter. Now, let's focus on just the Top 10. 5 of those teams are cold weather teams. Fully 8 conferences are represented in the Top 10. There is no way that you can look at the polls and conclude that warm weather programs dominate, that any particular conference dominates, that there isn't high quality college football being played all over the country in most of the D-1 conferences. Of course, as an aside, you will also conclude that the MAC blows, with one team meekly making the Top 25. The arguments about southern demographics, about "quality" players in the south, about the fall of football in cold weather states, none of them are supported by the performance of the teams in question or the state of the major conferences around the country. There are 7 teams in the Top 25 that are located (generally) in the Southeastern US. Does 7 of 25 indicate dominance to you? I will conclude by asking how anyone in their right mind can say that in 2009/2010, the SEC is the "dominant" conference in the country?The "rise" of the southeastern football, compared to other parts of the country, is over.

[Ryno aka Menace]

Hmm...I find it interesting you chose this method to support your arguement. I think your comparing apples to oranges. I think a fair approach would be to compare top 40 schools in a geographic area collectively, now population gives the warm states some advantage but take a look for example....Warm States top 40 programsFlorida = Florida, Florida St, Miami, and South FloridaTexas = Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Texas A&M, Houston, and very soon SMUAlabama= Alabama, AuburnCalifornia = USC, Cal, UCLA, StanfordGeorgia = Georgia, Georgia TechSouth Carolina = South Carolina, ClemsonKentucky = Kentucky, LouisvilleLouiana = LSU, vs.Cold States top 40 programs:Ohio= OSU, Cinci (and a bunch of below 40 ranking schools)Michigan = Michigan, Michigan St, Central MichiganPenn = Penn State, PittWest Virginia = West Virginia, MarshallWisconsinVirginia = Virginia, Virginia TechKentucky = Kentucky, LouisvilleAnswer these questions and get back with me....How many "southern or warm weather" schools have players from Ohio, Michigan, Wisonsin, or New York, etc.?How many cold rust belt schools have players from warm weather states like Texas, Cali, and Florida? How many kids from Akron go to any middle to lower level D1 southern school like Old Miss, Vanderbuilt, FIU, or Alabama Birmingham?How many MAC schools have a kid on their roster from Florida?How many Sun Belt/Conference USA have kids from our "recuiting hotbeds of Ohio, and Penn? As a collective group the south has better teams and they recruit mostly in their own backyards. IMO this is where your arguement starts to falls apart. Also alot of the top Northern schools have no competition in their state for recruits or very little, ie Boise, Iowa, Mizzouri, Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, Penn. St, and Nebraska. An easy way to visualize would be to draw a line through the middle of the country and see which side as more good quality football teams.http://tjsportsource.tripod.com/fb_05_location_map.gif

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

Are you kidding me? You question my use of the actual most recent college football polls, while at the very same time torturing and teasing data the way you do? What simpler method of comparing teams can there be than looking at how they stack up in the most recent, real, football season? Here's where I'll answer your questions though:1) You note a very FEW cold weather states in your listing, but fail to mention Idaho, Iowa, Missouri, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Colorado, Utah, Oregon, Washington, etc, etc. Any of you who have traveled out west will remember that many of the schools out west, including in the mountainous desert areas, are true winter locations. Winters are no warmer or nicer (unless you want to talk about recreational activities) in places like Denver, Salt Lake or Boise than they are in the midwest of the US. Now, stack up the teams from those OTHER cold weather areas that you neglected and let's talk. 2) You mention kids from California, Texas, Florida and "cold weather" rosters. As I watched OSWho last night I was amazed at how many kids I saw on that roster from all over the country. And frankly, my argument really had nothing to do with the dispersal of kids to programs around the country. I'm not a college recruiter and so I really couldn't care less where exactly kids on rosters are from. My argument had to do with the one meaningful measurable, that being performance and rankings from the most recent REAL season. I don't care where the kids come from, it is a fact that 15 of the top 25 programs in the country to end the 2009 season were in cold weather cities. Beyond that, there were exactly 3 SEC teams in the top 25 to end the season. So, maybe those vaunted hot weather hillbilly programs should have recruited a little differently and they might have performed better on the field? Lastly, your "let's cut the country in the middle" argument is just silly. Have you been to some of the cities, in the winter, that are included on the couthern side of your "college football Mason Dixon line"? Wichita, Oklahoma City, KC, etc.? Many of those places have nasty winters, and/or are in the middle of nowhere. Just because programs in the southeast WERE dominant over the last ten years does not mean they are currently dominant nor that they will be going into the future.

Hmm...I find it interesting you chose this method to support your arguement. I think your comparing apples to oranges. I think a fair approach would be to compare top 40 schools in a geographic area collectively, now population gives the warm states some advantage but take a look for example....Warm States top 40 programsFlorida = Florida, Florida St, Miami, and South FloridaTexas = Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Texas A&M, Houston, and very soon SMUAlabama= Alabama, AuburnCalifornia = USC, Cal, UCLA, StanfordGeorgia = Georgia, Georgia TechSouth Carolina = South Carolina, ClemsonKentucky = Kentucky, LouisvilleLouiana = LSU, vs.Cold States top 40 programs:Ohio= OSU, Cinci (and a bunch of below 40 ranking schools)Michigan = Michigan, Michigan St, Central MichiganPenn = Penn State, PittWest Virginia = West Virginia, MarshallWisconsinVirginia = Virginia, Virginia TechKentucky = Kentucky, LouisvilleAnswer these questions and get back with me....How many "southern or warm weather" schools have players from Ohio, Michigan, Wisonsin, or New York, etc.?How many cold rust belt schools have players from warm weather states like Texas, Cali, and Florida? How many kids from Akron go to any middle to lower level D1 southern school like Old Miss, Vanderbuilt, FIU, or Alabama Birmingham?How many MAC schools have a kid on their roster from Florida?How many Sun Belt/Conference USA have kids from our "recuiting hotbeds of Ohio, and Penn? As a collective group the south has better teams and they recruit mostly in their own backyards. IMO this is where your arguement starts to falls apart. Also alot of the top Northern schools have no competition in their state for recruits or very little, ie Boise, Iowa, Mizzouri, Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, Penn. St, and Nebraska. An easy way to visualize would be to draw a line through the middle of the country and see which side as more good quality football teams.http://tjsportsource.tripod.com/fb_05_location_map.gif

[cornbread]

There has got to be something better to argue about. The weather, seriously? If you want to get into anthropological debates over this stuff, get a relevant base in the subject by reading Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond.Maybe you will find something the explanations over the rise of modern civilization to apply to high school football athletics in different climates. I don't think there is anything there but who am I to judge?

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

There has got to be something better to argue about. The weather, seriously? If you want to get into anthropological debates over this stuff, get a relevant base in the subject by reading Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond.Maybe you will find something the explanations over the rise of modern civilization to apply to high school football athletics in different climates. I don't think there is anything there but who am I to judge?

I read that book at least 5 years ago while commuting on the metro to and from work in DC every day. You? I find it very interesting to discuss the potential long term health of college football programs in different parts of the country, if for no other reason than to look for hope in this little cold weather city. I will say though that while trying to shut down the discussion you actually bring to mind some great info from the Diamond book having to do with technology, tool sets capitalized on by cultures and the fact that demographics almost never come down to "where is it warm and easy to live?" In the historical context, places being relatively warm and hospitable have almost nothing to do with cultural and technological advances made by human civilization. This discussion can be as complex or simple as we'd like to make it, but again I come back to the most recent polls, which are the most current and simple way to measure program performance I can think of.

[zippy5]

shouldn't we be comparing the warm weather kids vs. cold weather kids, and not the programs? after all, we are debating about fall/spring soccer, early track season and such. each college program has the same regulations..

[cornbread]

I read the book.I guess I did try to shut down the argument because I don't see the point in arguing inside the constraints they had setup already( warm vs cold). But here I am... posting again.If there is a potential difference that reflects on the football field, ala Diamond's book, it will point towards things economic, resource driven, or cultural. Something along the lines of a stable and prolonged booming regoinal economy that produces a bunch of athletic babies... or some region begins to tap into resources that were untouched by college football. For example, the hispanic community could start to produce major college athletes and benefit the first teams that have access to that pool or talent.But then I dont see a point in that, given the national prominence of college football, and our global society. Kids are constantly recruited from across the country.

There has got to be something better to argue about. The weather, seriously? If you want to get into anthropological debates over this stuff, get a relevant base in the subject by reading Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond.Maybe you will find something the explanations over the rise of modern civilization to apply to high school football athletics in different climates. I don't think there is anything there but who am I to judge?

I read that book at least 5 years ago while commuting on the metro to and from work in DC every day. You? I find it very interesting to discuss the potential long term health of college football programs in different parts of the country, if for no other reason than to look for hope in this little cold weather city. I will say though that while trying to shut down the discussion you actually bring to mind some great info from the Diamond book having to do with technology, tool sets capitalized on by cultures and the fact that demographics almost never come down to "where is it warm and easy to live?" In the historical context, places being relatively warm and hospitable have almost nothing to do with cultural and technological advances made by human civilization. This discussion can be as complex or simple as we'd like to make it, but again I come back to the most recent polls, which are the most current and simple way to measure program performance I can think of.

[you am i]

This topic got me to spend about 10 minutes on a totally unscientific project. I looked at the rosters for Alabama and Texas to see how many players were from cold weather states. I did the same for Penn State and Ohio State, except I was looking for players from warm weather states. Like I said, this was a 10 minute project so I may be off a bit on the numbers, but this is what I found. Alabama has only 2 players on their roster from cold weather states. Texas has 3 players from cold weather states. Amazingly, to me anyway, all but 5 players on the Texas roster are from Texas. They pretty much have the luxury of recruiting exclusively from Texas. High school football in Texas must be as good as they say.Penn State has 10 players from warm weather states. It looks like they go to Texas for their out-of-region recruting. Ohio State has 12 players from warm weather states. Ohio State goes to Florida for its out-of-region recruiting.Also, a quick check of the University of Florida roster shows 7 players from cold weather states, but mostly Florida and Georgia players.

[Ryno aka Menace]

This topic got me to spend about 10 minutes on a totally unscientific project. I looked at the rosters for Alabama and Texas to see how many players were from cold weather states. I did the same for Penn State and Ohio State, except I was looking for players from warm weather states. Like I said, this was a 10 minute project so I may be off a bit on the numbers, but this is what I found. Alabama has only 2 players on their roster from cold weather states. Texas has 3 players from cold weather states. Amazingly, to me anyway, all but 5 players on the Texas roster are from Texas. They pretty much have the luxury of recruiting exclusively from Texas. High school football in Texas must be as good as they say.Penn State has 10 players from warm weather states. It looks like they go to Texas for their out-of-region recruting. Ohio State has 12 players from warm weather states. Ohio State goes to Florida for its out-of-region recruiting.Also, a quick check of the University of Florida roster shows 7 players from cold weather states, but mostly Florida and Georgia players.

And Alabama, Florida, and Texas will all finish above Ohio State, and Penn State, and Cincinnati. in your most recent poll.

[Buckzip]

Southern speed is a myth and it is stupid. Look at the NFL and see where players are from.

[skip-zip]

Just a couple of comments...1) Texas has indeed become notorious for getting nearly all of their players from Texas. But, that doesn't seem to be the typical route when looking at the top programs. 2) Speed doesn't come from the South. Teams in the South recruit speed. And the most noticable difference to me might be on the defensive side of the ball. Even at the interior positions. Go look at the championship game 3 years ago between OSWho and Florida, and the way Florida's defensive linemen ran around OSWho's front line, for a good example of this. 3) I'm sure weather can be a factor to plenty of high school football players being recruited. But, that doesn't always mean that the South has a clear advantage. Remember, those guys have to go through August workouts in 100+ degree weather with high humidity. 4) I think style of play is a big issue right now as well. The teams from the South just appear to be staying ahead of the curve right now in terms putting things into action on the field that will win championships. For instance, this year the only two "cold weather" teams with a shot at playing in the national title game as the season drew to a close were Cincinnati and Boise State. Does anyone really believe that either of them could have legitimately competed against either Florida, Alabama, or Texas for a national championship?

[Ryno aka Menace]

Just a couple of comments...1) Texas has indeed become notorious for getting nearly all of their players from Texas. But, that doesn't seem to be the typical route when looking at the top programs. 2) Speed doesn't come from the South. Teams in the South recruit speed. And the most noticable difference to me might be on the defensive side of the ball. Even at the interior positions. Go look at the championship game 3 years ago between OSWho and Florida, and the way Florida's defensive linemen ran around OSWho's front line, for a good example of this. 3) I'm sure weather can be a factor to plenty of high school football players being recruited. But, that doesn't always mean that the South has a clear advantage. Remember, those guys have to go through August workouts in 100+ degree weather with high humidity. 4) I think style of play is a big issue right now as well. The teams from the South just appear to be staying ahead of the curve right now in terms putting things into action on the field that will win championships. For instance, this year the only two "cold weather" teams with a shot at playing in the national title game as the season drew to a close were Cincinnati and Boise State. Does anyone really believe that either of them could have legitimately competed against either Florida, Alabama, or Texas for a national championship?

Very Valid Points...i agree indeed.

[zippy5]

hey how bout this...who cares?

[you am i]

hey how bout this...who cares?

Then don't read the thread, dude. Prettty simple solution.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

hey how bout this...who cares?

There are few things as annoying as a poster who takes the time to post about not caring. Come on zippy5, bring something worth posting if you're going to add to the thread.

[zippy5]

hey how bout this...who cares?

Then don't read the thread, dude. Prettty simple solution.

Actually, I think the topic is so stupid, i came here just to tell you guys

[you am i]

hey how bout this...who cares?

Then don't read the thread, dude. Prettty simple solution.

Actually, I think the topic is so stupid, i came here just to tell you guys

Classy.

[dgull021878]

WHOA, WHOA, WHOA!Maybe I'm completely missing something here, but I don't recall ANYBODY making an argument that 'warm-weather ' football programs were better.What HAS been talked about is the conditioning of high school athletes in the south being more conducive to speed, which may, might, maybe give southern conferences an advantage in regards to 'team-speed' - NOT that they're better programs....clearly, if you're a college football fan you'd should know better than that...just look at this current bowl season.This thread is completely meritless IMO - this has never been the argument.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

WHOA, WHOA, WHOA!Maybe I'm completely missing something here, but I don't recall ANYBODY making an argument that 'warm-weather ' football programs were better.What HAS been talked about is the conditioning of high school athletes in the south being more conducive to speed, which may, might, maybe give southern conferences an advantage in regards to 'team-speed' - NOT that they're better programs....clearly, if you're a college football fan you'd should know better than that...just look at this current bowl season.This thread is completely meritless IMO - this has never been the argument.

Well then you haven't been reading many of the threads on here, and while we're in the process of calling board contributions worthless, your latest post is worthless. I've said it at least twice now that my post had NOTHING to do with the quality of kids in any particular part of the country, it was ALL about college football D-1 programs, specifically the Top 25, and their geographic distribution.Again, post if you have something to say about the thread, but please don't waste my (or anybody else's) time by posting that you're not interested in this thread. I wouldn't do that to you. You shouldn't do it to me.

[dgull021878]

WHOA, WHOA, WHOA!Maybe I'm completely missing something here, but I don't recall ANYBODY making an argument that 'warm-weather ' football programs were better.What HAS been talked about is the conditioning of high school athletes in the south being more conducive to speed, which may, might, maybe give southern conferences an advantage in regards to 'team-speed' - NOT that they're better programs....clearly, if you're a college football fan you'd should know better than that...just look at this current bowl season.This thread is completely meritless IMO - this has never been the argument.

Well then you haven't been reading many of the threads on here, and while we're in the process of calling board contributions worthless, your latest post is worthless. I've said it at least twice now that my post had NOTHING to do with the quality of kids in any particular part of the country, it was ALL about college football D-1 programs, specifically the Top 25, and their geographic distribution.Again, post if you have something to say about the thread, but please don't waste my (or anybody else's) time by posting that you're not interested in this thread. I wouldn't do that to you. You shouldn't do it to me.

Like I said, perhaps I've missed something - and you could've pointed out what I've missed, if that is the case. You could've referenced a debate to provide clarity for me....but since we're on it, take the time to COMPREHEND - READ. I don't call anyone or anyone's contribution "worthless".I said the premise of this thread is without merit due to the fact I have yet to see what you're arguing. Get your diction-game up before you choose to insult somebody.My point had everything to do with your argument. You reference warm weather programs. Those programs primarily recruit from southern states (southern athletes), so YES, this would relate to the 'quality' of the athletes.However, I won't WASTE your time any further pointing out what you apparently didn't comprehend.Carry-on....

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

WHOA, WHOA, WHOA!Maybe I'm completely missing something here, but I don't recall ANYBODY making an argument that 'warm-weather ' football programs were better.What HAS been talked about is the conditioning of high school athletes in the south being more conducive to speed, which may, might, maybe give southern conferences an advantage in regards to 'team-speed' - NOT that they're better programs....clearly, if you're a college football fan you'd should know better than that...just look at this current bowl season.This thread is completely meritless IMO - this has never been the argument.

Well then you haven't been reading many of the threads on here, and while we're in the process of calling board contributions worthless, your latest post is worthless. I've said it at least twice now that my post had NOTHING to do with the quality of kids in any particular part of the country, it was ALL about college football D-1 programs, specifically the Top 25, and their geographic distribution.Again, post if you have something to say about the thread, but please don't waste my (or anybody else's) time by posting that you're not interested in this thread. I wouldn't do that to you. You shouldn't do it to me.

Like I said, perhaps I've missed something - and you could've pointed out what I've missed, if that is the case. You could've referenced a debate to provide clarity for me....but since we're on it, take the time to COMPREHEND - READ. I don't call anyone or anyone's contribution "worthless".I said the premise of this thread is without merit due to the fact I have yet to see what you're arguing. Get your diction-game up before you choose to insult somebody.My point had everything to do with your argument. You reference warm weather programs. Those programs primarily recruit from southern states (southern athletes), so YES, this would relate to the 'quality' of the athletes.However, I won't WASTE your time any further pointing out what you apparently didn't comprehend.Carry-on....

...and like I said, your posts in this thread are worthless, or perhaps I should use the term "meritless" as you did. Perhaps in "football country" there is a meaningful difference between the two terms in the context of this discussion.Carry on....

[GP1]

4) I think style of play is a big issue right now as well.

Allow me to add some intelligence to this thread.Style of play is absolutely the key right now. If you can get your QB to make some plays with his feet and complete some passes down field, you can win. Like I have said before, football has become about QBs, WRs and coaches.Case in point. The Rose Bowl. I hate to use tOSU as the example because everyone here goes crazy, but it was the best example of bowl season. I'm not ready to say that Pryor is a great QB, but he did play extremely well for once. tOSU did not win because they lined up in the I-formation and ran the ball down the throat of a smaller Oregon defense. The opposite actually took place. When tOSU lined up in the I-formation, they were stuffed by a smaller defense. The I-formation for almost every team is a pending disaster. You need Alabama type talent to make it work and neither team in the Rose Bowl has Alabama type talent. We also can't say that the overrated tOSU defense outclassed a smaller Oregon defense. The opposite actually took place. Late in the third quarter, Oregon was running the ball down the throat of tOSU's defense. If the Oregon QB doesn't hand the ball off into the throat of Blount and Blount kicks the ball into the endzone in a freak accident, Oregon has the lead in the fourth quarter and I don't see Pryor bringing tOSU back. Oregon's starting running back got hurt and prior to that he was running circles around a slow tOSU defense by getting to the edge at will.tOSU won because Pryor had the ability to make plays out of the SPREAD FORMATION with his feet and the tOSU coaches also found some mismatches to exploit in the passing game. tOSU ran the ball well out of the spread and not the I-formation. Smashmouth football did not win the day for tOSU. Defense did not win the day either. A combination of good playcalling and an Oregon give-a-way won it for tOSU.Let's bring this around to the Zips since this is a Zips board. I think the Zips could have the best passing QB in Ohio college football next year. He has the arm, he just needs to improve accuracy. He has some mobility.....or at least enough mobility to be successful. Do we now have a coaching staff that can recognize and exploit mismatches? Do we have anyone to throw the ball downfield to? We'll find out those answers next year.

[GP1]

For instance, this year the only two "cold weather" teams with a shot at playing in the national title game as the season drew to a close were Cincinnati and Boise State. Does anyone really believe that either of them could have legitimately competed against either Florida, Alabama, or Texas for a national championship?

I would like to throw my name into the NO category. I told you guys before bowl season Cincy was in for a rude awakening and I was right again. Let's all be honest here....Cincy had no business being on the same field as Florida...they got blown out last year in the Orange Bowl by VA Tech and they thought they were going to beat UF? There is not one kid on Cincy's team who could beat out a starter at UF for their starting position. If Kelly brings the same type of athlete to ND as he did Cincy, ND will never get back to where they want to be. The end of a coaches greatness comes at some point. Kelly's will end with a $15 million buy out five years from now. Congratulations on winning the lottery Coach Kelly.Boise State would not finish in the top five of the SEC or Big 12.Just because all of those teams are in the D-I category does not mean they are all the same.

[dgull021878]

WHOA, WHOA, WHOA!Maybe I'm completely missing something here, but I don't recall ANYBODY making an argument that 'warm-weather ' football programs were better.What HAS been talked about is the conditioning of high school athletes in the south being more conducive to speed, which may, might, maybe give southern conferences an advantage in regards to 'team-speed' - NOT that they're better programs....clearly, if you're a college football fan you'd should know better than that...just look at this current bowl season.This thread is completely meritless IMO - this has never been the argument.

Well then you haven't been reading many of the threads on here, and while we're in the process of calling board contributions worthless, your latest post is worthless. I've said it at least twice now that my post had NOTHING to do with the quality of kids in any particular part of the country, it was ALL about college football D-1 programs, specifically the Top 25, and their geographic distribution.Again, post if you have something to say about the thread, but please don't waste my (or anybody else's) time by posting that you're not interested in this thread. I wouldn't do that to you. You shouldn't do it to me.

Like I said, perhaps I've missed something - and you could've pointed out what I've missed, if that is the case. You could've referenced a debate to provide clarity for me....but since we're on it, take the time to COMPREHEND - READ. I don't call anyone or anyone's contribution "worthless".I said the premise of this thread is without merit due to the fact I have yet to see what you're arguing. Get your diction-game up before you choose to insult somebody.My point had everything to do with your argument. You reference warm weather programs. Those programs primarily recruit from southern states (southern athletes), so YES, this would relate to the 'quality' of the athletes.However, I won't WASTE your time any further pointing out what you apparently didn't comprehend.Carry-on....

...and like I said, your posts in this thread are worthless, or perhaps I should use the term "meritless" as you did. Perhaps in "football country" there is a meaningful difference between the two terms in the context of this discussion.Carry on....

The value you place on my post is "worthless" and your apparent fragile nature is without "merit"....so yes, I shall,"carry-on". We have clarity in 'Football Country'.

[Buckzip]

4) I think style of play is a big issue right now as well.

Allow me to add some intelligence to this thread.Style of play is absolutely the key right now. If you can get your QB to make some plays with his feet and complete some passes down field, you can win. Like I have said before, football has become about QBs, WRs and coaches.Case in point. The Rose Bowl. I hate to use tOSU as the example because everyone here goes crazy, but it was the best example of bowl season. I'm not ready to say that Pryor is a great QB, but he did play extremely well for once. tOSU did not win because they lined up in the I-formation and ran the ball down the throat of a smaller Oregon defense. The opposite actually took place. When tOSU lined up in the I-formation, they were stuffed by a smaller defense. The I-formation for almost every team is a pending disaster. You need Alabama type talent to make it work and neither team in the Rose Bowl has Alabama type talent. We also can't say that the overrated tOSU defense outclassed a smaller Oregon defense. The opposite actually took place. Late in the third quarter, Oregon was running the ball down the throat of tOSU's defense. If the Oregon QB doesn't hand the ball off into the throat of Blount and Blount kicks the ball into the endzone in a freak accident, Oregon has the lead in the fourth quarter and I don't see Pryor bringing tOSU back. Oregon's starting running back got hurt and prior to that he was running circles around a slow tOSU defense by getting to the edge at will.tOSU won because Pryor had the ability to make plays out of the SPREAD FORMATION with his feet and the tOSU coaches also found some mismatches to exploit in the passing game. tOSU ran the ball well out of the spread and not the I-formation. Smashmouth football did not win the day for tOSU. Defense did not win the day either. A combination of good playcalling and an Oregon give-a-way won it for tOSU.Let's bring this around to the Zips since this is a Zips board. I think the Zips could have the best passing QB in Ohio college football next year. He has the arm, he just needs to improve accuracy. He has some mobility.....or at least enough mobility to be successful. Do we now have a coaching staff that can recognize and exploit mismatches? Do we have anyone to throw the ball downfield to? We'll find out those answers next year.