I'm sorry I made the drive to Akron tonight....

[Dave in Green]

Overall conference SOS:.507 Horizon.502 MACOverall conference RPI:.507 Horizon.500 MAC

[InTheZone]

To me, you judge the strength of a conference by it's top 4, the best it has to offer the College Basketball world....Top 4 Teams in MVC:Northern Iowa RPI: 21 Witchita St. RPI: 51Illinois St. RPI: 75Creighton: RPI: 101RPI Average: 62Top 4 Teams in Horizon:#11 Butler RPI: 17Wright State RPI: 91Green Bay RPI: 100UW Milwaukee RPI: 143RPI Average: 87.75Top 4 Teams in MAC:Can't State RPI: 47Akron RPI: 87Central Michigan RPI: 191Buffalo RPI: 92RPI Average: 104.25The MAC Sucks. If we went to top 6 teams, the disparity would be even greater. MAC teams need to improve their arenas, improve their fan support, and improve their TV coverage in some way, and attract better players. This conference is a joke right now.

[Dave in Green]

Yep, you can chop up conferences and get all different kinds of numbers. I did that in another thread by dividing the overall MAC RPI into separate East and West just to show the relative strengths of the 2 MAC divisions. But I didn't leave any teams out.By the way, Central Michigan does not have the 4th highest RPI in the MAC. Here's the way the two conferences stack up by today's most recent RPI:43 Can't State93 Buffalo95 Akron131 Ohio139 Miami161 Western Michigan181 Bowling Green 190 Central Michigan209 Eastern Michigan210 Ball State263 Northern Illinois324 Toledo17 Butler94 Wright State 102 Green Bay 125 Milwaukee 154 Cleveland State 166 Detroit 178 Valparaiso 220 Loyola (Chicago) 269 Youngstown State 291 UIC As you can see, going to 6 teams does not make the disparity greater between the MAC and the Horizon. The 5th and 6th highest RPI teams in the MAC are ranked better than the 5th and 6th teams in the Horizon. After the top 4, the gap is reduced. So keeping it to the top 4 is the best case scenario if the goal is to prove that the Horizon is a lot stronger than the MAC. But you'd have to get everyone to agree that the standard for comparing conference strength is to ignore all but the top 4 teams, which I don't think will get many takers.However, I don't think anyone will disagree with your statement that MAC teams need to improve their arenas, improve their fan support, and improve their TV coverage in some way, and attract better players.

[BirdZip]

Crawled out of bed around two today. Luckily the wifey made me drink a couple gatorades before I passed out last night, so the hangover wasn't too bad.To whatever slap**** called me a moron in this thread for saying the Flushes aren't even a good team, maybe you should look outside our little MAC box. Did you watch the first half last night?? Unfortunately I was still sober enough at that point to remember all of it. Honestly, go to the high school state championships this year. You'll see a higher quality of basketball played. If Can't State is the best the MAC has to offer and we're second to them, we're an even sorrier excuse for a conference than I thought we were. You put us or Can't in the MVC or Horizon and we don't bust a grape. The fact that we did not win this sorry conference this year is pathetic. For all the praise lavished on KD since he's been here, what has he really done outside of a few 20 win seasons in a row playing the sisters of the blind outside of conference and some of he crappiest teams in the nation inside of it? Yeah we're in the upper echelon of the MAC. At this point in MAC history, that doesn't mean we don't suck, and that definitely doesn't mean we're relevant in College Basketball. I'm glad at least GP1 can see that. Not bad for a Faust guy, he must've been in the 17 percent

Horrible game last night--no doubt about it. Horrible opinions today--no doubt about it. I'll see your moron and raise you an idiot. Can't has a good team--it's OK to admit it. And KD has done a lot if you look at where the team was when he came and where it is now. You can debate where they're headed but the debate will go nowhere because we don't know now--gotta wait and see.By the way, nobody threw confetti last night so the conference championship is yet to come. The real deal ends Saturday. Pull yourself off the train tracks and get ready for Thursday.

[Zip Watcher]

Crawled out of bed around two today. Luckily the wifey made me drink a couple gatorades before I passed out last night, so the hangover wasn't too bad.To whatever slap**** called me a moron in this thread for saying the Flushes aren't even a good team, maybe you should look outside our little MAC box. Did you watch the first half last night?? Unfortunately I was still sober enough at that point to remember all of it. Honestly, go to the high school state championships this year. You'll see a higher quality of basketball played. If Can't State is the best the MAC has to offer and we're second to them, we're an even sorrier excuse for a conference than I thought we were. You put us or Can't in the MVC or Horizon and we don't bust a grape. The fact that we did not win this sorry conference this year is pathetic. For all the praise lavished on KD since he's been here, what has he really done outside of a few 20 win seasons in a row playing the sisters of the blind outside of conference and some of he crappiest teams in the nation inside of it? Yeah we're in the upper echelon of the MAC. At this point in MAC history, that doesn't mean we don't suck, and that definitely doesn't mean we're relevant in College Basketball. I'm glad at least GP1 can see that. Not bad for a Faust guy, he must've been in the 17 percent

Horrible game last night--no doubt about it. Horrible opinions today--no doubt about it. I'll see your moron and raise you an idiot. Can't has a good team--it's OK to admit it. And KD has done a lot if you look at where the team was when he came and where it is now. You can debate where they're headed but the debate will go nowhere because we don't know now--gotta wait and see.By the way, nobody threw confetti last night so the conference championship is yet to come. The real deal ends Saturday. Pull yourself off the train tracks and get ready for Thursday.

+1Great post.

[InTheZone]

Yep, you can chop up conferences and get all different kinds of numbers. I did that in another thread by dividing the overall MAC RPI into separate East and West just to show the relative strengths of the 2 MAC divisions. But I didn't leave any teams out.By the way, Central Michigan does not have the 4th highest RPI in the MAC. Here's the way the two conferences stack up by today's most recent RPI:43 Can't State93 Buffalo95 Akron131 Ohio139 Miami161 Western Michigan181 Bowling Green 190 Central Michigan209 Eastern Michigan210 Ball State263 Northern Illinois324 Toledo17 Butler94 Wright State 102 Green Bay 125 Milwaukee 154 Cleveland State 166 Detroit 178 Valparaiso 220 Loyola (Chicago) 269 Youngstown State 291 UIC As you can see, going to 6 teams does not make the disparity greater between the MAC and the Horizon. The 5th and 6th highest RPI teams in the MAC are ranked better than the 5th and 6th teams in the Horizon. After the top 4, the gap is reduced. So keeping it to the top 4 is the best case scenario if the goal is to prove that the Horizon is a lot stronger than the MAC. But you'd have to get everyone to agree that the standard for comparing conference strength is to ignore all but the top 4 teams, which I don't think will get many takers.However, I don't think anyone will disagree with your statement that MAC teams need to improve their arenas, improve their fan support, and improve their TV coverage in some way, and attract better players.

I didn't take the 4 highest RPI's, I went with the teams with the 4 best conference records, showing who the leaders are in conference play and how they did in comparison to the rest of the country. Say what you will about the teams top to bottom, but the prestige of a conference is the strength of it's elite teams, and I would take the top 4 in the Horizon this year against our top 4 any day of the week. It's ok to admit that the MAC has become one of the worst basketball conferences in the country, and a conference we can't win at that. We just need to figure out how to fix that.It starts with improving the playing venues all over the conference. We have arenas that are on par with big high schools. It then goes to getting a man of business in our commissioner's chair that knows how to get this conference on television (having arenas that don't look like Jones Junior High will go a long way in helping to get networks to show us). We have to start getting a higher quality of player in this conference. The elite teams of the MAC should be signing at least 1 Zeke every year.

[The Hip Zip]

I'm the slap dick, thanks for the new moniker. I think that I'll use it myself.I never said that you are moron by the way, just said that saying Can't is not a good team is a moronic statement. I am sure that you fine guy. Yes, I do watch every game from the third row so I get a pretty good view.Can't State is a good team and was a very good team last night. I do agree with you on one thing. The basketball in the MAC is really, really bad right now. I am retired so I do get to see a ton of ton of hoops from all the conferences and I recall not too long ago when the Horizon and the MVC looked up to us, not any more.Have a wonderful weekend !

[InTheZone]

I'm the slap dick, thanks for the new moniker. I think that I'll use it myself.I never said that you are moron by the way, just said that saying Can't is not a good team is a moronic statement. I am sure that you fine guy. Yes,I do watch every game from the third row so I get a pretty good view.Can't State is a good team and was a very good team last night.Have a wonderful weekend !

It was nothing personal. Where I'm from you disagree with a guy you call him and his mama every name in the book, and an hour later your best friends again. I'm sure you're a fine fellow yourself when you aren't blinding yourself to the reality of what a good college basketball team means outside of our pathetic conference this year.Do not be surprised to see Can't bounced by 20+ in th first round of the NCAA's. You heard it here first.

[The Hip Zip]

I'm the slap dick, thanks for the new moniker. I think that I'll use it myself.I never said that you are moron by the way, just said that saying Can't is not a good team is a moronic statement. I am sure that you fine guy. Yes,I do watch every game from the third row so I get a pretty good view.Can't State is a good team and was a very good team last night.Have a wonderful weekend !

It was nothing personal. Where I'm from you disagree with a guy you call him and his mama every name in the book, and an hour later your best friends again. I'm sure you're a fine fellow yourself when you aren't blinding yourself to the reality of what a good college basketball team means outside of our pathetic conference this year.Do not be surprised to see Can't bounced by 20+ in th first round of the NCAA's. You heard it here first.

I will buy you a cold one if Can't State gets bounced in the first round by 20 provided that they don't play a top ten team. If that so happens to play out just PM me and I'll meet you at the pub of your choice. You have nothing to lose.

[Dave in Green]

..... It's ok to admit that the MAC has become one of the worst basketball conferences in the country, and a conference we can't win at that. .....

Sure, it's OK to admit anything you believe in. By RPI averages, the MAC is right square in the middle -- 16th out of 33 D1 conferences. But numbers can be created to show that it's one of the worst or one of the best.Where is reality?

[InTheZone]

..... It's ok to admit that the MAC has become one of the worst basketball conferences in the country, and a conference we can't win at that. .....

Sure, it's OK to admit anything you believe in. By RPI averages, the MAC is right square in the middle -- 16th out of 33 D1 conferences. But numbers can be created to show that it's one of the worst or one of the best.Where is reality?

The reality was in that game Friday night. 2 best teams in the conference. Both looked AWFUL. We just happened to the be the more awful.

[Dr Z]

..... Someone needs to explain to me why we get kids who are great scorers in high school and can't throw the ball into the ocean after a couple of years at UofA. I don't know why any kid with any offensive ability would want to come and play at UofA. .....

I think that may be one of the hazards of having a coach who is so focused on defense. I personally have no problem with stressing D if it results in winning more games. But obsessing over D to the point that it becomes a detriment to offense is not so good.I don't know if this is what's happening with KD and the Zips, but it's probably worth considering along with all the other possibilities.

I recently had a ZN member tell me he attended a practice and all they did was focus on defense. Now granted this was just one practice, but I wonder about our emphasis on defense also. But to defend the staff...there is this. I can only go by what I see on the floor at games (where it counts), and it looks to me that we need to focus some more on offense.

[RowdyZip]

I'm the slap dick, thanks for the new moniker. I think that I'll use it myself.I never said that you are moron by the way, just said that saying Can't is not a good team is a moronic statement. I am sure that you fine guy. Yes,I do watch every game from the third row so I get a pretty good view.Can't State is a good team and was a very good team last night.Have a wonderful weekend !

It was nothing personal. Where I'm from you disagree with a guy you call him and his mama every name in the book, and an hour later your best friends again. I'm sure you're a fine fellow yourself when you aren't blinding yourself to the reality of what a good college basketball team means outside of our pathetic conference this year.Do not be surprised to see Can't bounced by 20+ in th first round of the NCAA's. You heard it here first.

I will buy you a cold one if Can't State gets bounced in the first round by 20 provided that they don't play a top ten team. If that so happens to play out just PM me and I'll meet you at the pub of your choice. You have nothing to lose.

When did K-ent get awarded the MAC Tournament Championship?

[bigzipguy]

I agree with Dr Z point on emphasizing defense. Yes Defense is important. But there are games where one or several players on the opposing team are having a great night shooting. Then you must respond with some players on your side stepping it up.