Is Akron a soccer city?

[zen]

janitor of kolbe hall has been thrown down in this thread. now it's on

[skip-zip]

Soccer is very VERY polarizing, as we have seen here. A big precentage of sports fans are NOT going to go watch soccer even if it's a national contender. As many have said, they would rather watch paint dry.

The bandwagon jumpers may go to see the MAC Tourney, and the NCAA tourney. They may go to see us play Ohio State. But they're not going to be buying season tickets to sit and watch soccer for hours and hours in all kinds of weather. You have to like or love soccer to do that.

The jump in season ticket sales, as much as anything else, answers this whole thread.

As I've said before, I admire your passion for your sport. And regardless of my opinions about the number of soccer fans in NE Ohio, the number of soccer fans at our games, and the popularity of the sport in general......I am a Zips soccer "fan" myself, and I enjoyed watching the World Cup..when the USA was playing. I'd love to see more scoring, but that's the nature of the game.

But.....please....I hope you are not trying to make some kind of point here by pointing out that 400 tickets have sold. And yes, I know it's an increase. But, how could such a number answer any questions?

[Spin]

So if you're acknowledging there are a lot more soccer fans like us, then what's to debate?

The thread is "Is Akron a soccer city". I say it is. You say it is. But you want to beat up the fact that the season tickets are selling better and faster than ever before. That a college soccer program sells 400 season tickets is not proof.

Don't get caught up in comparing a college soccer program with a major league team with a major league marketing budget and major league merchandising. If you want to compare them to the City Stars, or the Caps, that still might be a reach, but at least then you're comparing it to franchises whose marketing budget basically consisted of hoping to get press releases used in newspapers, and a few stories on TV. A team with a more comparable perception to college.

Ohio State was 5th in the country last year in attendance, and drew 1500. And that's a hot spot city where the Crew draws 13,000. So it's all relative. Keep that perception in perspective when we talk about a college team or a minor league team.

400 season tickets, for a college soccer program, in July? To me, it's one of several things to point to that says this area has a lot of soccer fans.

[skip-zip]

So if you're acknowledging there are a lot more soccer fans like us, then what's to debate?

The thread is "Is Akron a soccer city". I say it is. You say it is. But you want to beat up the fact that the season tickets are selling better and faster than ever before. That a college soccer program sells 400 season tickets is not proof.

Don't get caught up in comparing a college soccer program with a major league team with a major league marketing budget and major league merchandising. If you want to compare them to the City Stars, or the Caps, that still might be a reach, but at least then you're comparing it to franchises whose marketing budget basically consisted of hoping to get press releases used in newspapers, and a few stories on TV. A team with a more comparable perception to college.

Ohio State was 5th in the country last year in attendance, and drew 1500. And that's a hot spot city where the Crew draws 13,000. So it's all relative. Keep that perception in perspective when we talk about a college team or a minor league team.

400 season tickets, for a college soccer program, in July? To me, it's one of several things to point to that says this area has a lot of soccer fans.

You're confusing me a bit here. But, I just wanted to point out that my opinions about fan interest were coming from a pretty objective source, and not someone who's on either side of the spectrum. I'm probably neither a soccer fan or a soccer hater. I'm a sports fan, I have an understanding of the game, and I have watched it occassionally. And as my post pointed out, I like watching the Zips play soccer, and enjoyed watching games in which the USA was playing in the World Cup.

I'm just telling it like I see it. My negative opinions about fan interest in the sport are not due to me being one of those people who hates the sport and enjoys bashing it. And as I've pointed out before, I admire people who have a passion for their sports. And you, any many other soccer fans seem to have that trait.

As far as my point about the 400 number is concerned, a little history of sales might be in order here. First, let me say that I hope every seat in that stadium sells out. But fans with a high level of interest tend to buy their season tickets immediately. So, in terms of you somehow equating this to local fan interest in soccer in your post, I'm really questioning why someone might be touting a number like 400 as some type of proof that there is "a lot" of soccer fans in the area.

[Spin]

How can I explain?

I look at that number, with a realistic expectation of college soccer, at a not-so-famous school, and think that's great. There are people on here predicting we hit the top ten in the country in attendance this year. And looking at the demand for tickets last year, and all the expansion, it wouldn't surprise me that much. Looking at the top programs in attendance, no surprise you see a lot of the soccer "hot beds". California, Connecticut, Maryland/Virginia, St Louis, Raleigh/Durham.

That number, 400, doesn't include students. They don't need to buy tickets. And if you don't think there are soccer fans among the students, you need to be around the Student Union during the World Cup. We disrupted an engineering convention when Donovan did his thing.

Fact is, this has always been a strong soccer market. It shows in demographic studies, in the success of pro teams, in the fact a developer wanted to build a stadium and a team by himself because he believed in the fan base, by every indication. You agree, but you want to pick apart one small part of my argument. In my eyes, you have unreasonable expectations for a program playing at a level considered below minor league, in a school with a "minor league" stigma compared to other DI schools. That's like saying Cleveland isn't a baseball town because the Lake Erie Crushers don't draw as many fans as the Yankees. You have to compare apples to apples. 1,800 fans puts you in the top ten in NCAA attendance. The PDSL, playing at the same relative level on the soccer food chain, averages just over 500. Like Einstein said, it's all relative...

[skip-zip]

How can I explain?

I look at that number, with a realistic expectation of college soccer, at a not-so-famous school, and think that's great. There are people on here predicting we hit the top ten in the country in attendance this year. And looking at the demand for tickets last year, and all the expansion, it wouldn't surprise me that much. Looking at the top programs in attendance, no surprise you see a lot of the soccer "hot beds". California, Connecticut, Maryland/Virginia, St Louis, Raleigh/Durham.

That number, 400, doesn't include students. They don't need to buy tickets. And if you don't think there are soccer fans among the students, you need to be around the Student Union during the World Cup. We disrupted an engineering convention when Donovan did his thing.

Fact is, this has always been a strong soccer market. It shows in demographic studies, in the success of pro teams, in the fact a developer wanted to build a stadium and a team by himself because he believed in the fan base, by every indication. You agree, but you want to pick apart one small part of my argument. In my eyes, you have unreasonable expectations for a program playing at a level considered below minor league, in a school with a "minor league" stigma compared to other DI schools. That's like saying Cleveland isn't a baseball town because the Lake Erie Crushers don't draw as many fans as the Yankees. You have to compare apples to apples. 1,800 fans puts you in the top ten in NCAA attendance. The PDSL, playing at the same relative level on the soccer food chain, averages just over 500. Like Einstein said, it's all relative...

I'm not sure what you might be thinking I agreed with here. I know I stated earlier that, if fan support was going to be significant, it would seem like a no-brainer that a pro soccer franchise would have emerged again here. All I've ever heard is that one person was considering doing such a thing. And I remember this happening, but why was he trying to do it on his own? Maybe the fact that it was getting no public backing was an indication of the risk? You'd probably know more of the facts of that situation than me, but with a presumed large contingency of fan interest, municipalities and investers would likely be fighting over a chance to be a part of such a project, I would guess.

As far as the Zips are concerned, I guess it all goes back to what I thought originally. If, as you said, there are a lot of soccer fans in this area "just waiting for a team to get behind", I would think that the Zips soccer squad would be the ideal fit at the moment....one of the top teams in the nation, with the closest pro soccer franchise of any note being 150 miles away. Yet, I see that the fans who have a high level of interest, and are the most likely to run out and buy a season ticket immediately, numbered only 400 people. It's just hard for me to buy into the thought that this area is full of "soccer fans just waiting for a team to get behind" when I see these types of things.

[Spin]

Well if you don't understand the perception of the level of college soccer by now, if you can't grasp the numbers other college programs in soccer hot beds are drawing, then I can't help you.

And if you don't know why Bert Wolstein didn't bring the MLS to NE Ohio, I'm not sure anyone can.

I'm glad the Aeros management didn't factor in the Zips baseball attendance when deciding whether or not there were baseball fans here...

[Wally B]

You know i've been reading this thread with great interest and ultimately dissapointment as it spiraled down into the traditional "are there any fans, or why don't we have an MLS team" all of which are strikingly familiar to we can't compete with OSU or Pro teams draw away fan interest in football and basketball... blah blah blah.................

THe point i started to make in the parallel thread about a PDL team is that soccer is a different beast. You don'y have to start at the top. NEOhio doesn't have to build a huge stadium in hopes of attracting (and filling for) an MLS team. Teams reglarly switch leagues. Start with a PDL team that only needs a hundred or so fans and let the organization develop. Then petition to move up when the team/organization/fan base/facilities are ready. Can't hack it move back down for a bit and re-group. If you do it right you become engrained in the community at large. Seattle, Portland and Vancouver are perfect examples. They rode the wave of the original NASL up, then down to regional leagues then up to USL and now they are moving up to MLS with a dedicated fan base that has been around for decades!!! The Force represents that history. I read somewhere they played a few outdoor games including at the R.Bowl. More than any other moniker they represent soccer in NEOhio and fans would build off that energy. It would start slowly, but develop passionately like the core fans of the CityStars. That said, i will repeat myself... Why not Akron? Why not a PDL team of our own? It wouldn't take or require much. Those in doubt have never seen a PDL stadium before!

check this Wikipedia link for the Carolina Dynamo (Greensboro/High Point) and check out their less than straight line development including a stint on the indoor circut!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolina_Dynamo

and for pictures of their current stadium which you'll find no bigger than L.Jackson

http://www.carolinadynamo.com/stadium.php

[scottditzen]

My apologies if you already know this....a big reason Bert Wolstein's soccer bid unraveled was because the stadium location desired in Twinsburg area had a very large retail component attached. I believe his siting intention was to draw both Akron and Cleveland fans, just as with the Cavs in neutral Richfield.

While I preferred a Cleveland location, the attached retail idea made great sense to me regarding generating revenues. If you've seen how deserted the area around Crew Stadum in Columbus, (or Browns Stadium for that matter) you know they really dropped the ball by incorporating zero spinoff development.

Concerns over traffic, falling economy and the overall large size of the project were factors in the delay and subsequent shelving. If Bert were still alive I have a good feeling we would soon have an MLS team here in Northeast Ohio.

Here are 11 pages detailing the history of the project:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,7469.0.html

Well if you don't understand the perception of the level of college soccer by now, if you can't grasp the numbers other college programs in soccer hot beds are drawing, then I can't help you.

And if you don't know why Bert Wolstein didn't bring the MLS to NE Ohio, I'm not sure anyone can.

I'm glad the Aeros management didn't factor in the Zips baseball attendance when deciding whether or not there were baseball fans here...

[Dr Z]

Bert Wolstein's soccer bid unraveled was because the stadium location desired in Twinsburg area had a very large retail component attached. I believe his siting intention was to draw both Akron and Cleveland fans, just as with the Cavs in neutral Richfield.

I wonder if he would have that problem now if he used this location.

[Spin]

We had a franchise in Cleveland that was very successful and could have moved up that ladder. But the USL moved them up too quick, they lost key players, and went down the tubes. There are people interested in obtaining a USL Second Division (the old D3) franchise.

But that set us behind several years.

[scottditzen]

Whoa, good point.

Bert Wolstein's soccer bid unraveled was because the stadium location desired in Twinsburg area had a very large retail component attached. I believe his siting intention was to draw both Akron and Cleveland fans, just as with the Cavs in neutral Richfield.

I wonder if he would have that problem now if he used this location.

[scottditzen]

I miss seeing the Cleveland City Stars on tv.

Krenzler Field at Cleveland State, their old home turf, has to be one of the most photogenic backdrops.

http://www.netitor.com/photos/schools/clst...nal/280688.jpeg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Krenzler_Field.jpg

http://www.pro-gk.com/news/images/Cleveland_City_Stars.jpg

We had a franchise in Cleveland that was very successful and could have moved up that ladder. But the USL moved them up too quick, they lost key players, and went down the tubes. There are people interested in obtaining a USL Second Division (the old D3) franchise.

But that set us behind several years.