Remember the Titans

[Quickzips]

After the CSU loss, on Frenchy's post game show he made two comments that stuck in my memory --

"Well Zips Fans...you wanted to play a tougher schedule!"

and

"The Horizon League has clearly surpassed the MAC in basketball."

Quote #1 irked me when I first heard it. CSU isn't Duke. And it is a local upper-midmajor that we should be playing annually. But after thinking about it, if you take it in the context that a tougher schedule means we'll going to have to accept a few defeats as trade-offs for what were formerly 40-point blow outs the likes of South Carolina Upstate...I can accept it.

Regarding Quote #2 -- Since Butler made the NCAA Finals last season, I don't think there's any doubt the Horizon is a better hoops conference than the MAC. But overall, it isn't the MVC.

The MAC's dregs hold the conference back, but the top teams of the MAC can easily run with any Horizon team but Butler.

Three NCAA bids for the Horizon is laughable. Two is possible, if CSU upends Butler in the tourney. IMO - Butler and CSU would both represent the Horizon well against just about anyone...but after those two schools...puh-leeze.

Three Horizon CBI bids...that could happen.

I see this possibly happening too. Who would be the third team? Hopefully they don't think it's the team we played last night.

From everything you hear around the Horizon Detroit is supposed to be the third best team. If that is the case the only way the Horizon gets 3 bids is if CSU stays hot for most of the season but somehow lands Butler in the tournament semi-finals and loses. Then Butler goes on to lose in the finals to Detroit. In that case I could see Butler and MAYBE CSU getting at-large consideration. Otherwise, forget about it. Detroit is nowhere close to being an at-large team.

[Dave in Green]

As discussed on ZN.O last season, the Pomeroy ratings show the Horizon League as the 12th strongest out of 33 conferences (actually 32 conferences plus independents) and the MAC 16th. That's where they finished last season, and that's where they stand early in this season.

Two seasons ago, the HL was 11th and the MAC 18th, and three seasons ago the HL finished 11th and the MAC 12th. The last time the MAC was rated higher than the HL was six seasons ago, when the MAC finished 11th and the HL 16th.

[Quickzips]

As discussed on ZN.O last season, the Pomeroy ratings show the Horizon League as the 12th strongest out of 33 conferences (actually 32 conferences plus independents) and the MAC 16th. That's where they finished last season, and that's where they stand early in this season.

Two seasons ago, the HL was 11th and the MAC 18th, and three seasons ago the HL finished 11th and the MAC 12th. The last time the MAC was rated higher than the HL was six seasons ago, when the MAC finished 11th and the HL 16th.

The problem with the MAC is how abysml the West Division (and for this particular year apparently BGSU) is. Akron, Can't, Miami, Ohio, Buffalo have been pretty solid programs for most of the last 5+ years. But when you have teams like Toledo, NIU, Ball State and EMU who are consistently in the high 200's or worse in RPI it drags the rest of the conference down. I don't know what the problem is at some of these programs. The MAC doesn't necessarily need them to be top-100 level RPI teams in order to raise the conference profile, but it will never happen with 3, 4, 5 of our teams being rated in the bottom 50. NIU in particular is always puzzling to me. They are in the middle of such a hot bed of hoops talent you would think they could be at least competitive every year, but they aren't.

[ZachTheZip]

That win put our RPI back up to 23 and our SOS dropped from #2 to #5. Games against Temple and Minnesota coming up would likely put our SOS at the top. A win over one of them and also beating UIC could get us a top-5 RPI.

[RootforRoo44]

McNees was a little better last night as he took some big shots when we needed him, but I still watched him pass up at least 3 or 4 more shots that we've seen him take in the past. I don't think we need 10-12 shots per night out of him, but we can't have him passing up open looks like he continues to do.

Quickzips, how many shots do you expect from your shooting guard?

I think if McNees is efficient enough with the ball 8 or so per night would be about ideal. You have to remember where Steve's shots are coming from. He takes a higher percentage of his shots from 3 than pretty much any player in Zips history.

Not more than the Wizard of Wadsworth I bet Goddard scored 98% of his points from three point range.

[skip-zip]

After the CSU loss, on Frenchy's post game show he made two comments that stuck in my memory --

"Well Zips Fans...you wanted to play a tougher schedule!"

and

"The Horizon League has clearly surpassed the MAC in basketball."

Quote #1 irked me when I first heard it. CSU isn't Duke. And it is a local upper-midmajor that we should be playing annually. But after thinking about it, if you take it in the context that a tougher schedule means we'll going to have to accept a few defeats as trade-offs for what were formerly 40-point blow outs the likes of South Carolina Upstate...I can accept it.

Regarding Quote #2 -- Since Butler made the NCAA Finals last season, I don't think there's any doubt the Horizon is a better hoops conference than the MAC. But overall, it isn't the MVC.

The MAC's dregs hold the conference back, but the top teams of the MAC can easily run with any Horizon team but Butler.

Three NCAA bids for the Horizon is laughable. Two is possible, if CSU upends Butler in the tourney. IMO - Butler and CSU would both represent the Horizon well against just about anyone...but after those two schools...puh-leeze.

Three Horizon CBI bids...that could happen.

I see this possibly happening too. Who would be the third team? Hopefully they don't think it's the team we played last night.

From everything you hear around the Horizon Detroit is supposed to be the third best team. If that is the case the only way the Horizon gets 3 bids is if CSU stays hot for most of the season but somehow lands Butler in the tournament semi-finals and loses. Then Butler goes on to lose in the finals to Detroit. In that case I could see Butler and MAYBE CSU getting at-large consideration. Otherwise, forget about it. Detroit is nowhere close to being an at-large team.

I think it's still remote to think they'd take 3 teams from that league, even if Detroit wins the Horizon tournament. If that happened, I'm afraid CSU or Butler would have to get sent home.

As far as Detroit as an at-large, I looked at their schedule/results. They already have 4 losses, from what I can see. And I'd like to see them try to get the tournament committee to forget about a spanking at home to a MAC team who is not at-large material themselves right now.

[Zipmeister]

As discussed on ZN.O last season, the Pomeroy ratings show the Horizon League as the 12th strongest out of 33 conferences (actually 32 conferences plus independents) and the MAC 16th. That's where they finished last season, and that's where they stand early in this season.

Two seasons ago, the HL was 11th and the MAC 18th, and three seasons ago the HL finished 11th and the MAC 12th. The last time the MAC was rated higher than the HL was six seasons ago, when the MAC finished 11th and the HL 16th.

If we could move YSU from the Horizon to the MAC it would improve the rating of both conferences.

[BirdZip]

McNees was a little better last night as he took some big shots when we needed him, but I still watched him pass up at least 3 or 4 more shots that we've seen him take in the past. I don't think we need 10-12 shots per night out of him, but we can't have him passing up open looks like he continues to do.

Quickzips, how many shots do you expect from your shooting guard?

I think if McNees is efficient enough with the ball 8 or so per night would be about ideal. You have to remember where Steve's shots are coming from. He takes a higher percentage of his shots from 3 than pretty much any player in Zips history.

Not more than the Wizard of Wadsworth I bet Goddard scored 98% of his points from three point range.

For the record, according to the stats on espn.com, Goddard took 105 shots during his career, 93 of which were three pointers. He scored a total of 134 points (108 from 3-pointers, 12 from the line, and 14 as 2-pointers). For his career he shot 38.7% from 3-pt land.

I believe Steve's percentage is 451 of 602 being 3-pointers. McNees' 3-pt shooting percentage is at 35.9%.

[GoZips]

McNees was a little better last night as he took some big shots when we needed him, but I still watched him pass up at least 3 or 4 more shots that we've seen him take in the past. I don't think we need 10-12 shots per night out of him, but we can't have him passing up open looks like he continues to do.

Quickzips, how many shots do you expect from your shooting guard?

I think if McNees is efficient enough with the ball 8 or so per night would be about ideal. You have to remember where Steve's shots are coming from. He takes a higher percentage of his shots from 3 than pretty much any player in Zips history.

Not more than the Wizard of Wadsworth I bet Goddard scored 98% of his points from three point range.

For the record, according to the stats on espn.com, Goddard took 105 shots during his career, 93 of which were three pointers. He scored a total of 134 points (108 from 3-pointers, 12 from the line, and 14 as 2-pointers). For his career he shot 38.7% from 3-pt land.

I believe Steve's percentage is 451 of 602 being 3-pointers. McNees' 3-pt shooting percentage is at 35.9%.

At 35.9% this means that Steve is scoring over fifty percent based on two point play. Thus, why

would any coach, player of fan want to limit Steve's scoring to eight shots per game? R U serious?

[Quickzips]

35% from 3 point range really isn't all that good of a percentage. Your elite 3 point shooters are going to be shooting 40% or better from out there. 35% is actually rather average. That said it really doesn't tell the whole story with Steve. He's much more of a streak shooter. We've all seen games from him where he gets hot and is pretty much unconscious from behind the 3 point line and we've seen just as many games where he can't buy a bucket. On the former nights I've got no problem with him putting up as many 3's as he wants. On the later, I don't even want him taking those 8 shots. Thats where things need to average out. With such a large percentage of Steve's shots coming from behind the arch, and with 4-5 other capable 3 point shooters on the squad, if Steve is taking 12 shots per night the team as a whole is probably taking close to 30 3's a night. That is not a recipe for the Zips winning ballgames, especially when you consider that on average we are going to get around 70 shot attempts per night (and that may even be a bit of a high estimate).

[Dave in Green]

Yikes, East Tennessee State just beat Dayton at Dayton. I thought the Zips playing Dayton close at Dayton was a pretty decent achievement. Maybe the Flyers aren't flying so high this season.

ETSU has gone to the NCAA in each of the last two years. They played almost exclusively a zone defense and the Flyers hoisted up an amazing 38 three point attempts making a whooping 13.

So how good is Central Connecticut State (not to be confused with the UConn Huskies)? Because tonight they took Dayton to the wire, missing a last second 3-pointer to win and 2-pointer to tie before losing 63-61. The game was in Dayton, where the Flyers used to be nearly invincible, but this year look very mortal.

And, since beating Dayton at Dayton, East Tennessee State has lost their last two games to South Carolina Upstate and College of Charleston.