Akron September opponent's coach in hot water?

[Dave in Green]

..... Who is harmed by Pryor breaking ncaa rules? I would say that almost nobody is harmed by him breaking ncaa rules. Why?....Well, when everyone is already breaking the most moronic rules in the world, nobody can be harmed by the actions. .....

Everyone? Everyone is breaking the rules to the same extent as Terrelle Pryor?

Reality is that college football players are not that much different from the general population when it comes to following rules and regulations. Individuals have different standards of ethical conduct. No one is perfect. But that doesn't mean everyone is flawed to the same degree.

Some individuals place a higher value than others on following rules and regulations that they are obligated to follow by virtue of giving their word to do so or by signing legally binding contracts. Others have lower standards and try to get away with as much cheating as they think they can without getting caught and punished.

It's an insult to the many college football players with higher integrity to suggest that they're all cheaters at the level of Terrelle Pryor.

[GP1]

It's an insult to the many college football players with higher integrity to suggest that they're all cheaters at the level of Terrelle Pryor.

Maybe they would if they could, but they can't get anyone to give them a nickle.

[GP1]

It hurts the integrity of the game. Once Pryor is taking gifts and money, he owes someone. If you are a college QB and you owe someone, point shaving becomes a real threat.

Want to preserve the integrity of the game? Let them make money so it can all be out in the sunlight as we know who is making the money and where it is coming from. Preserve the integrity of the game by making it so they don't owe anyone anything and you put them in a position where the players don't have to expose themselves to the jocksniffers and low lives.

Is the integrity of the game damaged in professional athletics because the players take money? Of course not.

Want to preserve the integrity of the game? Stop allowing tosu to play the likes of ysu. Those games are frauds.

Want to preserve the integrity of the game? Make it so guys like Tressel can never coach again in college. He'll be the next Rick Pitino.

I could go on all night. The point is, it is laughable to look at what goes on in college athletics/ncaa and apply the word integrity to much of it.

[g-mann17]

It hurts the integrity of the game. Once Pryor is taking gifts and money, he owes someone. If you are a college QB and you owe someone, point shaving becomes a real threat.

Want to preserve the integrity of the game? Let them make money so it can all be out in the sunlight as we know who is making the money and where it is coming from. Preserve the integrity of the game by making it so they don't owe anyone anything and you put them in a position where the players don't have to expose themselves to the jocksniffers and low lives.

Is the integrity of the game damaged in professional athletics because the players take money? Of course not.

Want to preserve the integrity of the game? Stop allowing tosu to play the likes of ysu. Those games are frauds.

Want to preserve the integrity of the game? Make it so guys like Tressel can never coach again in college. He'll be the next Rick Pitino.

I could go on all night. The point is, it is laughable to look at what goes on in college athletics/ncaa and apply the word integrity to much of it.

And how much money do they have to make to stop a Pryor incident from happening? The problem with money is that it is never enough. You know it to be true, that is why there are plenty of corruptable professionals and they make millions. The most you could even offer these kids (and you would have to offer to every college athlete the same amount of money) is $20,000 a year and that is $1 Billion or more a year to pay just D-1 athletes. Does that money exist, yes. Will it stop any of this nonsense? Emphatically no.

You are a free market guy, do you really think a Cam Newton is going to be happy making the same money that some 6th string receiver gets? The majority of athletes are plenty happy with what they get, and they can make it work just fine.

[Dr Z]

I bet if Pryor was able to get a job, he would have been satisfied with that money, and not did anything illegal.

[GP1]

The problem with money is that it is never enough.

You are a free market guy, do you really think a Cam Newton is going to be happy making the same money that some 6th string receiver gets?

Of course it is never enough (it is never enough) and the schools shouldn't have to pay it. The players should be allowed to go out and earn money on their own. Which scenario preserves the integrity of the game better:

1. Player selling memorabilia under the table to a tat shop owner who is under investigation by the Feds for drug dealing.

2. Player getting paid by local car dealership in a signed legal contract at the end of which, player receives a 1099 for services, for signing autographs for four hours in September before school starts.

The problem with the way things are right now, of these two options, option 1 is the only one that can exist. How is that good for college athletics? How does that contribute to the integrity of the game?

Of course Newton woudl and should get more money. Would you rather have a guy who looks like him signing autographs at your car dealership, or would you rather bring in a blubbery offensive lineman stinking of french fries to sign autographs all day?

[g-mann17]

The problem with money is that it is never enough.

You are a free market guy, do you really think a Cam Newton is going to be happy making the same money that some 6th string receiver gets?

Of course it is never enough (it is never enough) and the schools shouldn't have to pay it. The players should be allowed to go out and earn money on their own. Which scenario preserves the integrity of the game better:

1. Player selling memorabilia under the table to a tat shop owner who is under investigation by the Feds for drug dealing.

2. Player getting paid by local car dealership in a signed legal contract at the end of which, player receives a 1099 for services, for signing autographs for four hours in September before school starts.

The problem with the way things are right now, of these two options, option 1 is the only one that can exist. How is that good for college athletics? How does that contribute to the integrity of the game?

Of course Newton woudl and should get more money. Would you rather have a guy who looks like him signing autographs at your car dealership, or would you rather bring in a blubbery offensive lineman stinking of french fries to sign autographs all day?

Your point two is interesting. But is that player making money off himself, or because of the school he plays for? Chances are it is because of the school he plays for. And even with that, how do you control it. Certain workers, that say they are working to pay for college but we all know they haven't been in a college classroom in their life, get a 1099 or W-2 that says one thing, and the truth of what they make is something totally different.

When we talk about integrity, we mean the allowable level of corruption and manipulation. The bottom line is, as soon as you let a player make money off "himself" you open it up to even more corruption and player manipulation than what already exists. Why would a player choose Alabama over say a Rutgers where they would get more exposure and could make more money because they are near NYC? Wouldn't that become a recruiting tool? And the ability to work already exists for athletes. If anything they should open up what the players can earn while working. Also nobody in college makes money of what they accomplish for the University. You think the grad assistant that actually discovered the vaccine for polio got any credit? You know it wasn't Salk doing every hour of that research.

[zen]

The libertarian in me is all for busting up the NCAA's draconian control over adult (yes, students, but legal adults) american citizen's lives and potential livelihoods. Also, I tend to favor GP1's slant that the NCAA doesn't have to be forced to dole out some sort of compensation to participating athletes, just free them from the hypocritical control to earn personal money (hypocritical because the NCAA is raking in mad loot due to the performance of these people).

However, I can tell you that if things changed this way, the inevitable eventuality is that the bigger players at the bigger schools will become millionaire students, paid to be present in promotional ways, and (if permitted) make loads in endorsement deals. "Hi, I am Tyrell Prior, and I got my Hummer at Cow-town Hummers. You should too!", and the middle sized schools and their students will feel obligated to compete by setting up systems to encourage local business in these college towns to pay students for their time, their image, and their endorsements. "Come to Slippery Rock to play basketball. Our starting basketball players each netted over $25,000 just last year in promotional activities!", and athletic departments will dedicate personnel to just these ends... finding money for players through programs, and attracting players because of it.

What a crazy circus it would become

[GP1]

But is that player making money off himself, or because of the school he plays for? Chances are it is because of the school he plays for. And even with that, how do you control it.

The bottom line is, as soon as you let a player make money off "himself" you open it up to even more corruption and player manipulation than what already exists. Why would a player choose Alabama over say a Rutgers where they would get more exposure and could make more money because they are near NYC? Wouldn't that become a recruiting tool?

The player makes money because of himself and for the school he plays for. He could make money for himself and the school. As it stands right now, the players make money for the schools and aren't allowed to benefit directly from the money they make for the schools. Allowing the kid to have a job allows the school to benefit from having the player and it allows the player to benefit from having he school.

At the end of the day, this isn't really about money. The lack of integrity doesn't come from the money. The lack of integrity comes from the SECRETS that have to be kept in order for the players to make money.

CK is worried about integrity because a player might fix a game. The money itself does not cause the problem. It is the secret the player and the guy giving the money share that causes the potential lack of integrity. That guy can hold that secret over the players head for a long time, or at least in the tosu case, the guy with the secret gets busted by the Feds.

Bring the money making into the light and integrity will be restored. As it stands now, the secret ghosts in closets will be haunting college football for decades unless they bring the money into the open.

I remember growing up, the Olympics were for amateurs. Anyone with half a brain knew the Communist countries were using professional athletes. There were a ton of people who wouldn't give up on the idea of the Olympics being for amateurs....very similar to those who don't believe college athletes should be allowed to benefit from their ability. One of the big stories of every Olympics was about the "professional" Soviets vs. the amateur "insert country name here". It was horrible for the Olympics because that was the story, not the athletes (similar to college football stories are now about players taking money, not the sport itself). Finally, sanity took hold and now professionals compete in the Olympics. Unless someone is blindly holding onto the past, it would be hard to argue the Olympics are worse off today because professionals are playing than when they were "amateurs". Anyone watch the US vs. Canada gold game last Olympics? If you know anything about hockey, you would have to agree it was one of the greatest hockey games ever. Basketball is awesome because there are so many good players playing professionally in the NBA and for other countries...the games are very entertaining once the rum-dums are out of the tournament.

Bringing money into the light was good for the Olympics. It will be good for college football as well. The secrets with the scumbags around these players need to go away.

[GP1]

What a crazy circus it would become

And it isn't now? So far, what has been the story for the NCAA 2011 football season? It is a complete circus and it is bad for college football.

[GP1]

A different perspective.

[BirdZip]

I think high schools should be allowed to pay high school athletes to play for them. After all, high schools charge admission to those games, and the bigger and high profile schools have games on TV on occasion. What harm could there possibly be to paying high school students. And that wouldn't give the private schools an advantage over the publics because, hey, the publics would be allowed to do the same thing.

And my son plays travel baseball. Certainly there's no harm in paying 10-year old kids (or their parents) to try to get them to come over to our team, right? That would help ensure that parents didn't get benefits without people knowing about it. What could be the harm?

There are several people at my company that have earned patents for the company. The company literally makes hundreds of millions off of those patents. The individuals came up with them. It is obviously unfair that the company should benefit so much. Those patents' benefits should go to the individual(s) who invented them. Nevermind that they did it using the company's resources--that can't be relevant, can it? Nevermind that they signed an agreement when they agreed to work for my company. Why should that agreement mean anything?

And hey, those free-ride scholarships aren't worth anything, so don't go telling me they already get paid in that way. Tuition/Room/Board at OSU is a mere $34K a year, so a full ride with a redshirt year is only worth $170,000. That's chicken feed.

[K92]

^

[g-mann17]

^^^

[RACER]

pryer can make at least 40k by signing stuff plus money in the nfl.why stay in school? not one person on this board would not take 40k if somebody gave it to them at 20 yrs old.they are not breaking any laws.nobody is saying pay the players.they should have the right to sell or autograph things for cash.

the ncaa makes 10.8 billion on the ncaa tourney.not 10.8 million.10.8 billion.don't tell me the kids are getting a could deal if they get a piece of paper.

[GP1]

Certainly there's no harm in paying 10-year old kids

High school kids shouldn't get paid by their schools to play football. College kids shouldn't be paid by their schools.

If a high school kid can play football, keep up his grades and have a part time job while playing football, why can't a college kid do the same thing? I know a guy who played high school football, graduated first in his high school class and worked at nights to earn money because his parents were broke. What did he do after high school? He want to the Naval Academy, graduated fourth in his class while playing basketball, served on a nuclear submarine and now is a Vice President for a company that designs nuclear power plants. He is in charge of 50 designers.

Why is having a job OK for a high school player and not a college player? It would seem to me that an adult would do a better job of managing his time than a child in high school, but the ADULT isn't allowed to behave like an ADULT.

[g-mann17]

pryer can make at least 40k by signing stuff plus money in the nfl.why stay in school? not one person on this board would not take 40k if somebody gave it to them at 20 yrs old.they are not breaking any laws.nobody is saying pay the players.they should have the right to sell or autograph things for cash.

the ncaa makes 10.8 billion on the ncaa tourney.not 10.8 million.10.8 billion.don't tell me the kids are getting a could deal if they get a piece of paper.

Look at the swag these guys get from getting to tournaments from the NCAA, look at all the stuff the NCAA actually does to help athletes. I don't mean glance, I mean actually look. 10.8 Billion goes really fast when you have the number of championships and tournaments that you do across all divisions. They know what makes money and they use it to make the most they can get and then spread it across all sports.

NCAA is bigger than football and basketball and if it wasn't for all the other sports opportunities, this stuff would not exist.

[GP1]

Look at the swag these guys get from getting to tournaments from the NCAA,

Seems to me the NCAA hypocrisy extends to this issue as well. What about the teams that suck? They don't get as much or anything. Good guys/teams make more than the bad guys/teams. The teams that suck should get the swag too.

[K92]

The reason for NCAA restrictions is to try to curtail abuse. The NCAA does not have a large enough staff to monitor the legitimacy of the transactions that have been discussed. The line has to be drawn somewhere and the NCAA drew it where they thought they could manage the situation. Changing regulations would create more problems than they could handle.

For example, players can now sell their property. Done. Rule changed.

Recruiter from Podunk U. comes to town talks with prospect, notices bic ball point pen on the coffee table.

"Awful nice pen ya got there son"

"Thank ya, Sir"

"Ya lookin ta sell it?"

"Oh I don't know. Why?"

"Know a guy back home lookin for one"

"Spose I could let it go for the right price"

"Lemme give him a call...Hey Billy Bob, found one a them bics you been looking fer. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I see. OK."

CLICK

"Says he's still lookin for one. He'll pay a pretty penny for one too. Fifty grand to be exact"

"Done! Sell it!"

"Oh, he only buys bics that been used to sign letters of intent with Podunk U. Can we do some business?"

Is this situation ok? If this is acceptable to everybody, go ahead and change the rule. If not, don't. Because 15 minutes after the rule is changed, these types of conversations are going to be going on all over the country and also, some so bizarre and sleazy we couldn't even imagine.

That's why you have to have these restrictive rules, IMO.

[GP1]

Is this situation ok?

This situation wouldn't take place if it was OK for a kid to have a job whenever he wanted to while in college. The current rules create the situation you just described.

The ncaa has become like the IRS. The irs now has so many rules, we have all become criminals even though we may not realize it. The ncaa now has so many rules, a 19 year old can't follow them all. I heard the ncaa manual was something like 400 pages long. That's as crazy as tax code.

[K92]

For example, players can now have jobs. Done. Rule changed.

Podunk U. booster Billy Bob Whitman can now give top recruits jobs at his place of business. Offensive linemen can make $20,000 a year. Hell some a them quarterbacks, they can make six figures. What kinda work is it? They ain't no work involved son. Come on down and fill out yer W-2 and collect yer paycheck.

Same question. Is this ok? Fluff jobs come along in the real world. There are many folks collecting money for nothing, why not college athletes?

Anywhere a opportunity for a sleaze exists, it will be exploited.

[RACER]

no one is asking for kids to have jobs.all they want is to be able to sell autograph things,and sign

endorsment deals by themselves.it's ok for a coach to do this ,or the school to sell themselves to the highest bidder.when a kid does like pryer how is this wrong.i say good for him,and get as much$ as you can.he is not doing anything coaches,ncaa presidents,a.d.'s or former players are not doing.

the fact is he made some cash which any person on this board would have done the same thing.

the ncaa wants every dime for themselves.. the ncaa president is making 1 million,and signed a deal for 10.8 billion for b-ball.he said there is no $ for tickets for a parent to see thier kid play one ncaa tourney game is a joke.

[you am i]

no one is asking for kids to have jobs.all they want is to be able to sell autograph things,and sign

endorsment deals by themselves.it's ok for a coach to do this ,or the school to sell themselves to the highest bidder.when a kid does like pryer how is this wrong.i say good for him,and get as much$ as you can.he is not doing anything coaches,ncaa presidents,a.d.'s or former players are not doing.

the fact is he made some cash which any person on this board would have done the same thing.

the ncaa wants every dime for themselves.. the ncaa president is making 1 million,and signed a deal for 10.8 billion for b-ball.he said there is no $ for tickets for a parent to see thier kid play one ncaa tourney game is a joke.

[/quot

In a perfect world, your idea would work fine. In the real world, if they ever let college athletes sell autographs and sign endorsement deals, it would become so out of control so fast your head would spin.

The amount of money that be flying around would be ridiculous. I guess they could try to cap the amount a kid could earn, but that would still heavily favor the schools where rich alums and fans would be willing to pass on whatever money they could to players for "an autograph."

[K92]

Racer, your wish is my command. Selling autographs is now 100 percent legit in the eyes of NCAA. Now all those "autographs" on national letters of intent are officially for sale to the highest bidder. I'm sure it will be great for intercollegiate athletics.

[GP1]

Same question. Is this ok? Fluff jobs come along in the real world. There are many folks collecting money for nothing, why not college athletes?

Anywhere a opportunity for a sleaze exists, it will be exploited.

This could take place but it I doubt it would be too widespread. I don't think there are that many people out there who would be able to give away that type of money. Would this scenario be any different than the kid taking the money under the table? Money under the table is worse because it becomes criminal activity.

The guy with $20,000 to give away would probably be a smart businessman. My guess is he would want something for his 20K. Right now all he gets is a chance to sniff jock. Let's say he was a car dealer. The conversation might be, "I'll pay you 20K, but you are going to be at my dealership for three Saturdays in June, July and August signing autographs for four hours." Professional athletes can do this, actors can do this, any of us could do this if we could get the dealer to pay us. Why not the player? If you treat them like adults, they might just act like adults. Right now, they get treated like children and they act out like children.