Time to shut down Football -- experiment over?

[skip-zip]

I don't buy into the idea that there are too many big schools in the area for us to find a niche. I look at the fact that NE Ohio is DYING for a winner and that that population is roughly 3 million people. I think we are in a great spot. Now, our problem is that the area is so starved for a winner that the will latch onto any team that is winning (Steelers, OSU). Now I'm not saying it will be easy to do, but if we don't try, we'll never get there.

Let's talk about the Steelers for a bit here, because to me they serve as something of an example.You talk of NE Ohio dying for a winner, and that is why you are starting to (sadly IMO) grasp on to Pittsburgh. Now I am still a relative youngin, but I don't ever remember hearing about a time when there were as many Pittsburgh fans in NEO as there are right now. Why? Because the Browns we're out of football for a number of years, and have been pretty terrible in the 12 seasons since they returned. Meanwhile, Pittsburgh has won Superbowls and been a staple in the playoffs. People get tired of rooting for the team that consistently looses, so they decide to adopt the team that consistently wins. Classic bandwagon.Now lets revert back to OSU. The Buckeyes have consistently been a top-25 program for a number of years (if I read correctly this week is the first time in like 7 years that they aren't in the top-25). They have been regular national title contenders, and they regularly win big games. People in NE Ohio have already bandwagoned on to them as winners. It doesn't take a genius to see that. To the general population in NE Ohio college football begins and ends with the Buckeyes. Sad, but true. Now the only way that is going to change, and in turn the only way that the Zips are going to make in roads with those bandwagoner fans who are "dying for a winner" is if OSU goes through a sustained dry spell, while the Zips get hot. Let's just say, I'm not holding my breath on either of those things happening any time soon.I guess the point I am trying to make here is that while NE Ohioans are desperate for a winner, they have already found their winner when it comes to college football, and I just don't see a set of circumstances under which they are going to let go of that and meander over to the Zips. That being said, I do agree that the Zips can find their niche. I just feel that said niche is most likely as an FCS team where we can theoretically be more competitive.

Your point is proven with the soccer team. Our soccer team fills the stadium and soccer isn't even close to the popularity as football. If UA ever started to consistently win the fans would flock to see this team. If we could start winning the MAC and being competitive with top 20 teams, we would start hearing the Info needs expanded. The OSU excuse is old. Many other states have multiple schools that are supported. Ohio could certainly support another winner. Especially NE Ohio. This is a hotbed for talent and for football in general. People in NE Ohio are starving for a winner.If this school ever gets it's proverbial head out of it's butt, we could be a real player in getting people to fill the Info. WE have invested in facilities, stadium and the campus. It's time to invest in the right coach and staff.Enough of these position coaches of other schools. We either need a consistent, proven winner from a smaller division or a good coordinator from a winning major program. Not a position coach. Come on Dr P get us the right coach and let's start winning.

You already know my response, Buckzip.Akron Soccer competes for National Championships. Akron Football competes for a chance to win a title in a bottom level conference.OSWho Football competes for National Championships. Akron Football competes for a chance to win a title in a bottom level conference.Big differences. You want proof? Check out Akron Soccer's attendance before National Titles became a real possibility.

[GP1]

First off, how can it get worse than being down 49-0 at halftime? To point 3., I have no hard evidence on this, but I suspect that the amount of money that it would cost to convert the Info into an indoor basketball arena would be comparable to what it would cost to just go ahead and build a brand new arena and be done with it. I agree, stupid idea.

50-0I work in the construction industry. It would cost more than it took to build the Big Dialer to covert it into an indoor arena.

[Zipsrifle]

I don't buy into the idea that there are too many big schools in the area for us to find a niche. I look at the fact that NE Ohio is DYING for a winner and that that population is roughly 3 million people. I think we are in a great spot. Now, our problem is that the area is so starved for a winner that the will latch onto any team that is winning (Steelers, OSU). Now I'm not saying it will be easy to do, but if we don't try, we'll never get there.

Let's talk about the Steelers for a bit here, because to me they serve as something of an example.You talk of NE Ohio dying for a winner, and that is why you are starting to (sadly IMO) grasp on to Pittsburgh. Now I am still a relative youngin, but I don't ever remember hearing about a time when there were as many Pittsburgh fans in NEO as there are right now. Why? Because the Browns we're out of football for a number of years, and have been pretty terrible in the 12 seasons since they returned. Meanwhile, Pittsburgh has won Superbowls and been a staple in the playoffs. People get tired of rooting for the team that consistently looses, so they decide to adopt the team that consistently wins. Classic bandwagon.Now lets revert back to OSU. The Buckeyes have consistently been a top-25 program for a number of years (if I read correctly this week is the first time in like 7 years that they aren't in the top-25). They have been regular national title contenders, and they regularly win big games. People in NE Ohio have already bandwagoned on to them as winners. It doesn't take a genius to see that. To the general population in NE Ohio college football begins and ends with the Buckeyes. Sad, but true. Now the only way that is going to change, and in turn the only way that the Zips are going to make in roads with those bandwagoner fans who are "dying for a winner" is if OSU goes through a sustained dry spell, while the Zips get hot. Let's just say, I'm not holding my breath on either of those things happening any time soon.I guess the point I am trying to make here is that while NE Ohioans are desperate for a winner, they have already found their winner when it comes to college football, and I just don't see a set of circumstances under which they are going to let go of that and meander over to the Zips. That being said, I do agree that the Zips can find their niche. I just feel that said niche is most likely as an FCS team where we can theoretically be more competitive.

Excellent points. Yes, OSU would need to be down for a number of years OR we would have be be winning for a LONG TIME and make a serious run. Not easy, but not impossible. Of course, there are a certain number of people who, on a subject, will pipe up and say "So and so happened right near where I live", or "Such and such happened right where I grew up". These people gravitate towards things that are geographically near to them and I would guess if we were successful we could get some of these people to become Zips fans. I don't expect to get everyone and we would quickly bump up against the other programs, but I believe that if we were to consistently contend for the MAC and consistently make bowl games, the Info would be near capacity every week. Now, as for the Steelers thing, we'll see people start swinging the other way now that the Browns are on their way up and the Steelers are on their way down

[Spin]

I've said this before, but it's been awhile.I'd much rather be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond. The Zips in the FCS would be exciting, competitive. But would they draw in fans? Would the big beautiful stadium go to waste? Let's go a couple blocks west to the Akron Aeros. Let's go up north a few miles to Richfield and look at the Cleveland Force. And further north to Cleveland and take a peak at the original Cleveland Gladiators. None were ever considered the top level of their sport. All set attendance records. Have you ever been to a wrestling match at Heidelberg? Does the whole community get behind Mt. Union football? That's Division 3, we're talking Division One in a much more densely populated area."If you win it, they will come".After taking a good look at the sport, if Akron or anyone else wanted to be a part of the conference realignment and get into a BCS eligible conference, it's about 10 years too late. None of the MAC schools are being recruited by the Big Ten. That horse left the barn long ago, and now those conferences with their cable networks have an even bigger leg up on recruiting. TCU and BS being pushed aside by the BCS and given their own bowl game against each other was the writing on the wall. "You are not us".I'd rather be contending in the FCS than waddling around with the rest of the taints.

[Dr Z]

I'd rather be contending in the FCS than waddling around with the rest of the taints.

This is a tough argument right now, because of the product that is being presented on the field. But, I always like to see the highest level of competition. We have the potential to achieve a high level of recruit here, examples are scattered through the NFL. If we dropped down, we would significantly reduce that. I'm sorry to say, I would stop going to games if we dropped down. Maybe I would attend games like I do the Aeros & Monsters games, one game every other year for something to do, but not really follow the team.

[GP1]

But, I always like to see the highest level of competition. We have the potential to achieve a high level of recruit here, examples are scattered through the NFL. If we dropped down, we would significantly reduce that. I'm sorry to say, I would stop going to games if we dropped down. Maybe I would attend games like I do the Aeros & Monsters games, one game every other year for something to do, but not really follow the team.

You may not be going to games after the next five years and it won't be anything the University has done right or wrong. In fact, when you go to MAC games, you aren't seeing the highest level of competition as that level is reserved for BCS teams. Nobody likes to hear it, but that is the truth.It is hard to project the past on the future as the future is quickly becoming much different than the past. I don't even see it as the University or MAC dropping down...I see it as more of them being left behind with the changes. We'll still get mostly MAC level players, but the general landscape of college football will be different. Other than a couple "rent-a-win" games we play in early against BCS teams (those may go away), the competition will be the same as well. We may just be in our own level of football that includes a national championship playoff in addition to our league championship game. The big changes going on right now are at the BCS level and don't include conferences like the MAC.If everyone would open their mind to it, these changes happening in college football could really make things more exciting for Zips fans down the road.

[Blue & Gold]

But, I always like to see the highest level of competition. We have the potential to achieve a high level of recruit here, examples are scattered through the NFL. If we dropped down, we would significantly reduce that. I'm sorry to say, I would stop going to games if we dropped down. Maybe I would attend games like I do the Aeros & Monsters games, one game every other year for something to do, but not really follow the team.

You may not be going to games after the next five years and it won't be anything the University has done right or wrong. In fact, when you go to MAC games, you aren't seeing the highest level of competition as that level is reserved for BCS teams. Nobody likes to hear it, but that is the truth.It is hard to project the past on the future as the future is quickly becoming much different than the past. I don't even see it as the University or MAC dropping down...I see it as more of them being left behind with the changes. We'll still get mostly MAC level players, but the general landscape of college football will be different. Other than a couple "rent-a-win" games we play in early against BCS teams (those may go away), the competition will be the same as well. We may just be in our own level of football that includes a national championship playoff in addition to our league championship game. The big changes going on right now are at the BCS level and don't include conferences like the MAC.If everyone would open their mind to it, these changes happening in college football could really make things more exciting for Zips fans down the road.

Should this scenario play out, I sincerely hope you're right GP1. But right now I'm still w/ Dr.Z - I'd rather be ranked #25 in the country & win a mid-level bowl @ the D-1 level than be national champs in D-2 (or whatever they'd end up calling it).

[Dave in Green]

I agree with GP1 that we need to try to suppress our preconceptions and keep an open mind. No one really knows how the college football landscape will change with these superconferences. For one thing, with 16-team conferences, there may be fewer OOC games for the annoited teams and fewer opportunities for the lesser teams to have the opportunity to prove that they can compete with these higher level teams.Voters may be reluctant to vote a lesser team into the Top 25 if the lesser teams don't have opportunities to demonstrate that they belong there. Merely beating up on other lesser teams may not be enough. The bowls that will be left for the lesser teams may be scraps.Let's face it, when the big guys circle the wagons of their elite little fraternity, the little guys can easily get shut out.Looking at it from the optimistic point of view, the little guys have a chance to get together and create something better. Maybe they start playing with the rules and create a more entertaining football game than the big guys are playing. In basketball, the ABA used the 3-point shot to differentiate itself from the NBA, and fans loved it. Instead of trying to copy the big guys in hopes of being admitted into their little fraternity, why not think in terms of producing a better show than the big guys put on?For example, why not consider rules that open up the offenses to the point that teams are routinely scoring 100 points per game? That can easily be accomplished with a few rule changes, and high-scoring offenses tend to attract more casual fans than defensive slogging.Let's think in terms of David and Goliath, and let's go looking for a good slingshot.

[Spin]

But, I always like to see the highest level of competition. We have the potential to achieve a high level of recruit here, examples are scattered through the NFL. If we dropped down, we would significantly reduce that. I'm sorry to say, I would stop going to games if we dropped down. Maybe I would attend games like I do the Aeros & Monsters games, one game every other year for something to do, but not really follow the team.

You may not be going to games after the next five years and it won't be anything the University has done right or wrong. In fact, when you go to MAC games, you aren't seeing the highest level of competition as that level is reserved for BCS teams. Nobody likes to hear it, but that is the truth.

That's how I feel. What were our biggest wins? Syracuse? NC State? Are those the top tier teams you want to see? What leads you to think Akron will move beyond that (or even get back to that) in the next 10-15 years?I like watching the best ball players in the world, and they're right there on my TV every night. But I have a lot more fun, spend a lot less money, and eat a lot better food at Canal Park than I do at Progressive Park. The first couple months of this season is an exception.