2012-2013

[Blue & Gold]

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The best thing right now is to root for Ohio to make a long run. As much as I hate to say it, the Bobcats are representing the MAC. The better they do, the better the league (especially the East) looks. The good thing is, at least the Zips have a chance to prove they are the better program on the court, at least two times. ... Can't say the same thing if it was say Detroit (or pick your Horizon or any other mid-major team making a run).

Absolutely. I'm glad that Ohio has everyone coming back next year. I don't want them to have any excuses when we beat them.

[UAZip0510]

Amen. Our lack of a big to replace Nic this year, and Zeke next year, has me worried about our near future. I'm thrilled with this year's class. We've got two Big East caliber players coming in with McAdams and Mello, and Kretzer is also one of the best Ohio has to offer. But we're gonna need some additional beef down low next year, let alone after Big Zeke graduates.

I was really hoping to have a big man in this year's class to give him a redahirt year before trying to fill Zeke's giant shoes.

I agree, this is my biggest concern moving forward. We don't even necessarily need a star big man, just someone with some extra size down low.

[Quickzips]

The number one thing the Zips need to do for next year is finally develop a true go to scorer. Watching Lehigh take down Duke last night I was salivating about how good this team could be if we just had that one guy like CJ McCallum who we can count on for 15-20 per night, night in and night out. It would be particularly nice to find a guy like that who can close games out.

I don't think Abreu is that kind of guy. Although he can score the ball, the Zips are much better off with him in the role of distributor.

Walsh is a nice complimentary scorer who could peak out around 12 per night for you in the right situation, but he isn't a guy that you can pencil in as your go to scorer.

Diggs could be that guy, but he needs to start and trust his jumper more if he is going to take on that role. Too many times he will pass up an open jumper to try to take the ball to the hoop against double and triple teams.

Based on his history at UMBC, you would think Gilliam could take on that role, but I don't know as he has the confidence in himself to let it fly the way you need him too.

Harney and Treadwell might be those kinds of guys at some point in the future, but they are still too young, too raw and (particularly with Harney) too inconsistent.

Zeke, well, I won't flog that equine any more than it already has been.

I'm actually very curious about guys like Justice, McAdams and Kretzer. All of them come into the program with reputations as great scorers. Probably too young to rely on them as a go to guy, but I will be more than a little disappointed if we can't develop at least one of these guys into a 15 point per night kind of guy.

All I know is that at the end of the championship game, you knew darn well who OU was giving the ball too. They were going to win or lose that game as Cooper went. I had no clue who I wanted to see the Zips run the offense through, and it didn't seem as if anyone was fully ready to step up to the plate and take responsibility for the outcome of the game. I would have much preferred to have been in OU's position, despite my utter disdain for everything D.J. Cooper related.

[ZachTheZip]

The closest player we have to a "go to scorer" is Blake Justice.

[UAZip0510]

I think Abreu could be that guy. I posted this in another thread, but will re-post here:

Abreu's 2011-2012 Averages (Rounded): 30 Minutes, 6 FG Attempts, 10 points, 5 assists, 3 rebounds, 3 turnovers, 2 steals; .457 FG%, .430 3PT%, 82 FT%

Cooper's 2011-2012 Averages (Rounded): 32 minutes, 12 FG attempts, 15 points, 6 assists, 4 rebounds, 3 turnovers, 2 steals; .356 FG%, .316 3PT%, 74 FT%

I'd like to see Abreu become more assertive as our team leader and "go to" guy next season.

[UAZip0510]

I'm going to bump this because I think Ohio's run brings forth many thoughts:

1) Maybe instead of thinking the Zips underperformed, what they accomplished this year was actually underrated. The Bobcats are a Sweet Sixteen team, and we split the regular season with them and lost by one point in a game that could have gone either way. We're clearly pretty even with them, and they are going to the Sweet Sixteen.

2) Reaching the Sweet Sixteen almost assures that John Groce is gone. While the Bobcats will bring everyone back, they will have to adjust to a new head coach. It may also impact Kadeem Green transferring, as well as verbally committed recruits.

3) This puts the target squarely on Ohio's back next year in the MAC. Personally, I feel like the Zips perform better in the "underdog" role.

4) "If Walsh's jumper went in, could this have been us?" Hopefully that thought makes Dambrot, his players, and his coaching staff hungrier than they've ever been before to get a 2nd chance and finish the job this time. This team has just as much, if not more talent than OU. The 2012-2013 NCAA Tournament representative might be decided by who works the hardest this offseason.

[Valpo Zip]

4) "If Walsh's jumper went in, could this have been us?" Hopefully that thought makes Dambrot, his players, and his coaching staff hungrier than they've ever been before to get a 2nd chance and finish the job this time. This team has just as much, if not more talent than OU. The 2012-2013 NCAA Tournament representative might be decided by who works the hardest this offseason.

Could have been us? you're waaaay off my friend. Remember that we couldn't beat a 4 seed in the NIT? you expect us to beat a 4 seed in the NCAA?

I agree with your argument. We do have, not as much, but more talent than OU but we poop in our pants in big games. We just play scared in the big stage.

What's even more troubling is that we seem to be satisfied and happy where we are. Coach, players, administration, and even fans. Instead of pointing at the issue and fixing it, we are busy finding excuses:

"We are great, but...

1 - Waaaa our fans don't fill up the JAR

2 - Waaaa no major team will come play us at the JAR

3 - Waaaa why are we not considered in at large conversations

4 - Waaaa we are the 16th youngest team in the nation

OU did the job without any seniors on their team. Some people get the job done, some others enjoy coming up with excuses.

[Dave in Green]

As GoZips told us before the season began, the Zips had a goal of getting to the sweet 16. The 1-point loss to OU at the Q killed that. Having OU make it to the sweet 16 is verification of how close the Zips came to their goal.

The Zips need to develop the attitude that today's New York Times article described D.J. Cooper developed in high school. They need to get a chip on their shoulder.

I'll copy a part of the NYT article to make a point about the kind of attitude the Zips need to develop to take the next step:

One of Cooper's high school rivals in Chicago, James Pointer of Leo High School, made a comment in the local paper about "checking him off my list" after beating Cooper's team. The comment so irked Cooper that he kept the article in his sock when he played Leo again.

"We beat them pretty good the next two times that we played them," Cooper said with a smile, knowing that the final victory ruined Pointer's senior night.

So, yeah, basketball is just a game, and you shouldn't take it too seriously, and blah, blah, blah. But if you want to beat players like Cooper and coaches like Groce and teams like OU and get to the sweet 16, you'd better take it at least as seriously as Cooper does and be a little chippy and a little nuts.

[skip-zip]

Could have been us? you're waaaay off my friend. Remember that we couldn't beat a 4 seed in the NIT? you expect us to beat a 4 seed in the NCAA?

Thanks. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Some of what I am reading reminds me of the old matrix whereby every team in the country can make a claim that they won the national championship because they beat a team who beat a team who beat a team that won it all.

We lost the MAC title game, and then exited the NIT without winning a game. That was how we finished our year, and that's how we will be judged. On to next year.

[UAZip0510]

Could have been us? you're waaaay off my friend. Remember that we couldn't beat a 4 seed in the NIT? you expect us to beat a 4 seed in the NCAA?

I agree with your argument. We do have, not as much, but more talent than OU but we poop in our pants in big games. We just play scared in the big stage.

What's even more troubling is that we seem to be satisfied and happy where we are. Coach, players, administration, and even fans. Instead of pointing at the issue and fixing it, we are busy finding excuses:

"We are great, but...

1 - Waaaa our fans don't fill up the JAR

2 - Waaaa no major team will come play us at the JAR

3 - Waaaa why are we not considered in at large conversations

4 - Waaaa we are the 16th youngest team in the nation

OU did the job without any seniors on their team. Some people get the job done, some others enjoy coming up with excuses.

Considering we lost a one point game and Walsh had a great look that would have given us the lead with little time left on the clock, yes, it could have been us.

You simply can't compare a team one week removed from a gigantic letdown playing in a meaningless tournament to the emotional high that comes with playing in an NCAA Tournament game. There's no guarantees on anything, but I feel like we could have beat both Michigan and USF. Unfortunately, we'll never know.

Scrolling through this board, I don't think anyone is satisfied - players, coaches, or fans. There's a big difference between being optimistic for next season and being satisfied. To me, this season was a failure. Many will argue that, but anything less than the NCAA Tournament is failure to me. There were some great accomplishments, but they didn't reach their end goal. With that being said, I'm not going to sit here and say our team sucks, our program sucks, our coaches suck, OU is unbeatable, etc etc etc.

I am not satisfied until we do what OU has done. I am optimistic that we will do what OU has done next year.

[skip-zip]

Unfortunately, we'll never know.

That's right. Now you're making sense. That's because we join about 200 other D-1 programs who woke up this morning saying that they could have beaten Michigan and USF too, if only the ball had bounced their way in their conference tournament, and they could have taken OUs spot.

Wait a couple more weeks. When the national champion is decided, there will also be plenty of fans of teams who will claim that they could have been national champs, using the same logic.

I know it hurts today. I'm feeling it too. But, unfortunately we have to live with the reality that we did not make the tournament field, and were ousted in the first round of the NIT.

[Valpo Zip]

You simply can't compare a team one week removed from a gigantic letdown playing in a meaningless tournament to the emotional high that comes with playing in an NCAA Tournament game.

Gigantic letdown!

And who's fault is that?

Instead of saying that missing the NCAA tournament should be an additional incentive to motivate this team to win the NIT to prove that they belong in the tournament, we're coming up with additional excuses?

[UAZip0510]

That's right. Now you're making sense. That's because we join about 200 other D-1 programs who woke up this morning saying that they could have beaten Michigan and USF too, if only the ball had bounced their way in their conference tournament, and they could have taken OUs spot.

Wait a couple more weeks. When the national champion is decided, there will also be plenty of fans of teams who will claim that they could have been national champs, using the same logic.

I know it hurts today. I'm feeling it too. But, unfortunately we have to live with the reality that we did not make the tournament field, and were ousted in the first round of the NIT.

Except the other 200 teams didn't earn their way to playing Ohio U in the MAC championship game.

[UAZip0510]

Gigantic letdown!

And who's fault is that?

Instead of saying that missing the NCAA tournament should be an additional incentive to motivate this team to win the NIT to prove that they belong in the tournament, we're coming up with additional excuses?

You may say I'm making excuses, and that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion, and I respect that.

I think I'm just being realistic. If you watched the television broadcast, this was a topic thoroughly discussed in the pregame - teams having difficulty "getting up" for an NIT game after missing out on a NCAA Tournament berth. It's something all teams that come up just short go through. It's legitimate.

Every game I go to, I am extremely into the game. When the Zips are on TV, my wife often teases me about getting to into it and talking to the players like they can hear me. The Northwestern game? Aside from the last few minutes, I barely said a word. It was tough for me, a die-hard Zips fan of 12 years now, to care much about the game. I wanted them to win, like I want them to win every game...but it just wasn't the same.

Now put yourself in the shoes of the players and coaches. Their offseason started on March 19, 2011. The coaches almost immediately hit the recruiting trail, looking for players that would get us to the next level. The players took a few days off and then began offseason conditioning programs. They attended open gyms, made the trip to Canada, and spent hours upon hours practicing and studying film. Over the course of the season, they were forced to overcome great adversity - injuries, suspensions, internal disputes, youth, and inexperience - to become MAC regular season champions. They started the MAC Tournament with an emotional win over Can't State. With revenge on their minds, they then played OU in a back-and-forth matchup. They didn't play their best, but did play good enough to win - the shot was there, and it just didn't go down.

Understand that the Zips didn't just want to win. They expected to win. Everything they did from March 19, 2011 to March 10th, 2012 - the countless hours, the time away from their families, the sacrifices they made - was to prepare them for this moment. And they fell short.

Do I wish they would have pushed forward and made an NIT run? Absolutely. Am I disappointed in the end result of this season? It's still bothering me. In a perfect world the players would, 72 hours after the championship loss, be able to get over it. They'd come out and play the game like it was the NCAA Tournament.

But these players are human beings, just like you and me. And most of them are teenagers to boot.

Unfortunately, w here at Zipsnation - myself included - lose sight of that at times.

[skip-zip]

Except the other 200 teams didn't earn their way to playing Ohio U in the MAC championship game.

Are you serious? Please, make a case to anyone who's not a Zips fan that Akron was close to being a Sweet 16 team this year, and see what kind of response you get.

Sooooo many basketball games come down to a couple of plays that bounce either way, which surely included many of the games among the other 200 teams who were playing in their own conference tournaments, and who could have ended up in OUs spot too. And they all could have potentially gotten thier butts kicked by Michigan.

This connection between Akron and the Sweet 16 is just ridiculous.

We're not OU right now.

They've beaten us 5 of the last 6 times they've played us, including some major blowouts.

We weren't even in the tournament.

And we couldn't even win a game in the tournament between the teams that didn't qualify.

I wish that wasn't the case, but that's our reality right now.

[UAZip0510]

Are you serious? Please, make a case to anyone who's not a Zips fan that Akron was close to being a Sweet 16 team this year, and see what kind of response you get.

Sooooo many basketball games come down to a couple of plays that bounce either way, which surely included many of the games among the other 200 teams who were playing in their own conference tournaments, and who could have ended up in OUs spot too. And they all could have potentially gotten thier butts kicked by Michigan.

This connection between Akron and the Sweet 16 is just ridiculous.

We're not OU right now.

They've beaten us 5 of the last 6 times they've played us, including some major blowouts.

We weren't even in the tournament.

And we couldn't even win a game in the tournament between the teams that didn't qualify.

I wish that wasn't the case, but that's our reality right now.

Why are we talking about 200 other teams?

Those 200 other schools didn't play Ohio U in the MAC Championship, we did. Those 200 other schools didn't lose by one point in that game to OU, with a great shot to win in the end.

Joe Lunardi had us projected to take on Michigan on the morning of 3/10, so we would have likely had the same road that OU has had. I'm not sure why it's so difficult to see why it is painful to think about what might have been.

You are right that reality bites right now, and that we're not in OU's spot. You are wrong in saying that Akron didn't have the ability to do the same thing OU has done had they won the MAC Championship. I'm not saying they definitely would have, but it's not a "ridiculous" thought that they could have in any way, shape, or form.

[skip-zip]

I'm not sure why it's so difficult to see why it is painful to think about what might have been.

Because "what might have been" was a galaxy away from where we actually ended up.

[UAZip0510]

Because "what might have been" was a galaxy away from where we actually ended up.

That's your opinion, and I respect that. I think - and I'm sure the players believe - it was one Walsh jumper away.

[Valpo Zip]

You may say I'm making excuses, and that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion, and I respect that.

[\quote]

I am not accusing you personally of making excuses, we all do that, and I am suggesting we (as fans) should stop. I hope you didn't take that personal. Thank you for respecting my opinion and I similarly respect your opinion(s) and also your passion for Zips basketball.

Now put yourself in the shoes of the players and coaches. Their offseason started on March 19, 2011. The coaches almost immediately hit the recruiting trail, looking for players that would get us to the next level. The players took a few days off and then began offseason conditioning programs. They attended open gyms, made the trip to Canada, and spent hours upon hours practicing and studying film. Over the course of the season, they were forced to overcome great adversity - injuries, suspensions, internal disputes, youth, and inexperience - to become MAC regular season champions. They started the MAC Tournament with an emotional win over Can't State. With revenge on their minds, they then played OU in a back-and-forth matchup. They didn't play their best, but did play good enough to win - the shot was there, and it just didn't go down.

[\quote]

They put themselves in that position. They lost to Valpo, Duquesne, MTSU, CSU, Buffalo (x2), none of which is a tournament team by the way. They put all their eggs (and our eggs as well) in the basket of 2 games at the Q. When you do that, your error margin becomes really narrow. You can't play the whole season saying that the only games that matter are the ones at the Q and then lose at the Q and still say: well, we only lost by one shot.

In a perfect world the players would, 72 hours after the championship loss, be able to get over it. They'd come out and play the game like it was the NCAA Tournament. But these players are human beings, just like you and me. And most of them are teenagers to boot.

Unfortunately, w here at Zipsnation - myself included - lose sight of that at times.

[\quote]

Aren't the Nortwestern players humans as well? were they not disappointed as well? some of them are teenagers as well? why did they finish the night as winners?

[UAZip0510]

Aren't the Nortwestern players humans as well? were they not disappointed as well? some of them are teenagers as well? why did they finish the night as winners?

They are, and they handled it better. I absolutely agree with that. I will point out that seven of their players were seniors or juniors and they lost in the 1st round of their conference tournament six days before the NIT game, so I'd expect that they would.

[UAZip0510]

[\quote]

They put themselves in that position. They lost to Valpo, Duquesne, MTSU, CSU, Buffalo (x2), none of which is a tournament team by the way. They put all their eggs (and our eggs as well) in the basket of 2 games at the Q. When you do that, your error margin becomes really narrow. You can't play the whole season saying that the only games that matter are the ones at the Q and then lose at the Q and still say: well, we only lost by one shot.

Can't argue with that at all...but I'm not sure those losses would have changed their ultimate goal, their expectation to beat Ohio and reach the NCAA Tournament, or the huge disappointment of failing to reach that goal.

[Dave in Green]

On the issue of the UA-Northwestern game, the teams were matched closely enough that venue likely made the difference. NU won by 2 points on their home court. On a neutral court, NU loses at least 2 points of their home court advantage. In the JAR, the Zips would likely have had the edge. But it's all speculation. Nobody's right and nobody's wrong.

As for the connection between UA and the sweet 16 being ridiculous, only if you believe that the Zips should not set high goals for themselves. Are there any Zips fans here who believe the team should not have set such a high goal at the beginning of the season? If not, why is it inappropriate to talk about that goal now, even though they missed it? Do we not want the Zips to set a similar high goal of going to the sweet 16 next season?

[Dr Z]

The excuses for losing this season outnumber our actual loses.

[skip-zip]

On the issue of the UA-Northwestern game, the teams were matched closely enough that venue likely made the difference. NU won by 2 points on their home court. On a neutral court, NU loses at least 2 points of their home court advantage. In the JAR, the Zips would likely have had the edge. But it's all speculation. Nobody's right and nobody's wrong.

As for the connection between UA and the sweet 16 being ridiculous, only if you believe that the Zips should not set high goals for themselves. Are there any Zips fans here who believe the team should not have set such a high goal at the beginning of the season? If not, why is it inappropriate to talk about that goal now, even though they missed it? Do we not want the Zips to set a similar high goal of going to the sweet 16 next season?

No Dave, I never said it was ridiculous to have a goal to make the Sweet 16. I said it was ridiculous for someone to somehow claim that the 2012 Zips almost reached that goal.

[Dave in Green]

@skip-zip, thanks for the clarification. I understand your point now.

I think we can all agree that the Zips fell exactly 3 wins short of their goal. They needed to beat OU at the Q, and they fell 2 points short of earning the opportunity to play the 2 NCAA tournament games they needed to win in order to achieve their goal.

I think it's fair to say that the Zips almost beat OU at the Q as long as we agree that a 1-point loss is as close as you can get to winning without winning. Whether or not they could have won 2 NCAA tournament games is speculative.

I guess I would have said that they almost reached their goal if they had beaten OU and had won their first NCAA tournament game but lost in the second round. Based on what actually happened, I would say that over the course of the season the Zips almost became a good enough team to achieve their goal, but ultimately fell short of their full potential.