2012-2013 Bracketology

[taxpayer]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball...ogy/_/year/2013

For what it's worth....Zips omitted - MAC is once again seen as 1 bid conference.

Check out OU's projected seed.

Can't wait for the Zips to serve some Crow to Joe

[Dr Z]

Check out OU's projected seed.

They deserve it, they have won in the tourney...unlike us. 2012/2013: Time to "put up!"

[Dave in Green]

A good case could be made that a Sweet 16 team returning all of its players deserves an even higher seeding, considering that #11 seeds are generally expected to lose in the first round to the #6 seeds they're matched up against.

[Captain Kangaroo]

When we travel to Athens, can we keep The Diff closer than -25?

OU deserves to be the favorite. They've accomplished things multiple times over the past three seasons that I've only dreamed about for 28 seasons...and counting.

[taxpayer]

I'd say yes to leaving Athens with a win; most of the players will be ready for the circus atmosphere this year. I just wish we had their facility, as old as it is it is still light years better than the JAR. As is their home court advantage....big, loud band and an excellent, coordinated and crazy student section. I thought it was the toughest place for the Zips to play in last year. Got to give OU credit, they went way out of their way to make the Convo an intimidating enviroment for the Zips. We desperately need to learn that lesson.....our gameday enviroment, other than for Cant, is as mellow and quiet as any college arena i've been to.

[wadszip]

I'd say yes to leaving Athens with a win; most of the players will be ready for the circus atmosphere this year. I just wish we had their facility, as old as it is it is still light years better than the JAR. As is their home court advantage....big, loud band and an excellent, coordinated and crazy student section. I thought it was the toughest place for the Zips to play in last year. Got to give OU credit, they went way out of their way to make the Convo an intimidating enviroment for the Zips. We desperately need to learn that lesson.....our gameday enviroment, other than for Cant, is as mellow and quiet as any college arena i've been to.

I agree with what you said about Ohio. But if we can get a new arena, it will be better (even if it's not bigger) than the Convo. Matching the atmosphere may not come as quickly, though.

However, while I hate the JAR as much as anybody, lets not get too carried away. Are the home crowds great? No. Are they worst? No. Just in Northeast Ohio, Can't, YSU and Cleveland State (unless they host Butler, which won't be happening anymore) are worse than Akron. Lets not forget 4,400 showed up last year to watch the Zips play a god-awful Northern Illinois team, and it was a pretty loud crowd despite the game being a laugher. At the same time, that NIU game was somewhat of an abberation considering it was one of the highest attended games of the year, something I still don't get (maybe there was some sort of promotion, can't remember). Anyhow, with the buzz the team will be getting as the season comes closer, I think crowds like that NIU game could be the norm this year. If so, while it won't be confused with Rupp Arena, would easily be No. 2 in the MAC (and I believe Akron was still No. 2 in MAC home attendance last year).

If you want to imagine "mellow" and "quiet" just look at some of the box scores from other MAC schools. ... For example, 644 crazy fans packed EMU's 9,000 seat Convocation Center when Can't visited Ypsilanti last year (at the time was a pretty big game for EMU, considering they were in the MAC West race and hosting a school many outsiders still believe is the flagship school for MAC basketball). I don't want to waste my time looking it up, but I remember seeing a Northern Illinois home MAC game from last year that drew something like 278 people. Granted, those are examples on the other extreme, but they still are "college arenas".

[taxpayer]

If you want to imagine "mellow" and "quiet" just look at some of the box scores from other MAC schools. ... For example, 644 crazy fans packed EMU's 9,000 seat Convocation Center when Can't visited Ypsilanti last year (at the time was a pretty big game for EMU, considering they were in the MAC West race and hosting a school many outsiders still believe is the flagship school for MAC basketball). I don't want to waste my time looking it up, but I remember seeing a Northern Illinois home MAC game from last year that drew something like 278 people. Granted, those are examples on the other extreme, but they still are "college arenas".

Wadszip - you are right. I should have been more specific in my comments; let me try again. The JAR is the most mellow and quiet college arena I've ever been in where a program that has won 20 games per season for the last 6/7 years and is always 1st or 2nd in the conference and qualifies for post season tournaments. To have a problem filling/selling out 5,500 seats and the general lack of "atmosphere" is surprising and disappointing. I can't blame it all of the track/lousy seating.

[wadszip]

If you want to imagine "mellow" and "quiet" just look at some of the box scores from other MAC schools. ... For example, 644 crazy fans packed EMU's 9,000 seat Convocation Center when Can't visited Ypsilanti last year (at the time was a pretty big game for EMU, considering they were in the MAC West race and hosting a school many outsiders still believe is the flagship school for MAC basketball). I don't want to waste my time looking it up, but I remember seeing a Northern Illinois home MAC game from last year that drew something like 278 people. Granted, those are examples on the other extreme, but they still are "college arenas".

Wadszip - you are right. I should have been more specific in my comments; let me try again. The JAR is the most mellow and quiet college arena I've ever been in where a program that has won 20 games per season for the last 6/7 years and is always 1st or 2nd in the conference and qualifies for post season tournaments. To have a problem filling/selling out 5,500 seats and the general lack of "atmosphere" is surprising and disappointing. I can't blame it all of the track/lousy seating.

Fair enough, and I tend to agree, though the number of schools that fit your description is tiny, and most are your traditional basketball blue-bloods so that skews that. It narrows the schools down to Duke, Gonzaga, Kansas, Ohio State, Pittsburgh and Utah State. Obviously, Duke, Kansas, Ohio State and Pittsburgh are major conference teams with huge arenas (outside of Duke, but that is a very unique situation) ... And at least in Ohio State's case, you can argue that their 15,000 crowds are pretty mellow. Gonzaga is a basketball-only school that is located in a fairly large city Spokane (roughly the size of Akron) and it doesn't have any other nearby sporting competition ... the Zips have Cleveland State, Can't State and most notably the Cavs (especially when LBJ was there, and now things are looking up for them with Kyrie Irving) all drawing basketball fans in the region. So, comparing Akron to Gonzaga is also apples to oranges, IMO. ... And that doesn't even take into account that Gonzaga has achieved 10 times more success than the Zips.

That leaves Utah State and Akron as the two who are comparable. ... Both are large public universities (almost identical in size ... though USU is much less a commuter school than Akron) who both play outside major conferences and also have FBS football programs.

Here is what Utah State drew last year at home:

Utah State (10,270 capacity)

vs. BYU - 10,270

vs. Southern Utah - 10,068

vs. Denver - 10,056

vs. Utah Valley - 10,141

vs. Seattle - 9,337

vs. UT-Arlington - 9,666

vs. St. Peter's - 9,959

vs. Can't State - 10,059

vs. Fresno State - 9,010

vs. Nevada - 10,270

vs. Hawaii - 9,870

vs. San Jose State - 10,270

vs. Louisiana Tech - 9,643

vs. New Mexico State - 10,067

vs. Montana Tech - 9,657

vs. UC-Santa Barbara - 10,048

vs. Idaho - 10,178

vs. Cal-Bakersfield (CIT) - 2,141

vs. Idaho (CIT) - 2,460

vs. Loyola Marymount (CIT) - 3,546

vs. Oakland (CIT) - 2,092

vs. Mercer (CIT) - 6,154

I didn't know what to expect when I started looking it up. Though, I was a little surprised at how well attended their games were. Definitely, way more support than Akron, as none of their regular season games drew less than 9,000. Very impressive. Just from looking at the fall-off from regular season games to the CIT (which Utah State hosted), it shows that: 1. USU has a ton of student ticket holders. 2. Expectations are very high (as the CIT is a who cares event.). 3. Also, like Gonzaga, there isn't much outside competition for sporting events in Logan, Utah (which is in the northern part of the state, 80 miles from Salt Lake City), which makes drawing fans easier.

Overall, Akron definitely should inspire to be more like Utah State, which is attainable. The bottom line for Akron, though, is winning ... and winning big (IE, multiple MAC regular season and tourney titles, winning NCAA tourney games). There is just too much competition in this region, for what is still a commuter school, to draw a Utah State-type following without winning big.

This year could be a step in that direction. This is a put up or shut up year in many ways. Zeke's senior season, tons of national pub, coming off the first MAC regular season title and nearly another NCAA tourney appearance (and Ohio's run in the tourney, I believe, legitimizes how close Akron was last year to putting a run together). I think a reasonable goal is to sell out the Ohio and Can't games and then draw about 4,000 for the other home games. Doing that could be a major step in getting a new arena. And while the JAR can't be the blame for all the attendance woes, going back to what you said to begin with, of the schools that have strung 20-win seasons together for the past seven years, all have arenas that are light-years ahead of the JAR ... there has is some correlation.

Even with that, if this team can't draw an average of 4,000 per home game this year, maybe a new arena isn't the answer, or most the economical way for the school to use its resources. It really can't be understated how important this season is for Zips basketball. If the team performs to what it is capable of, and if the fans buy into it and show up, it could be the springboard to a new arena.

[Dave in Green]

Don't forget the Pat Forsythe factor. It would be a travesty if Forsythe doesn't get his NCAA hardship exemption, based on his well-documented and entirely worthy family situation. If the NCAA denies this request, I will join GP1 in declaring that the NCAA doesn't have a clue and needs to be replaced by something with a pulse.

Without Forsythe, this season's edition of the Zips still has the potential to be the best-ever UA men's basketball team. With Forsythe, they become something special. How many college teams in the country have two 7-footers with this much talent?

The potential is there for greatness. The problem is that every season a fair number of teams assemble potentially great lineups, and only a small percentage live up to their full potential. If this season's Zips team doesn't get distracted, and if they deliver on their potential, they will capture the imagination and support of Akron and NEO. People in this area are not just looking for a winner, they're looking for a big winner on the national stage.

[akronzips71]

Back in the 1960's when we were a Div II school and had less resident dorm students, we filled Memorial Hall much of the time. I can recall standing for a few games.

Akron student apathy is well known and I guess it has never changed. Just too many people who go to class get in the car and go home. That is the way it always was. No campus life.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Back in the 1960's when we were a Div II school and had less resident dorm students, we filled Memorial Hall much of the time. I can recall standing for a few games.

You can do anything from your dorm room in 2012. Take classes, pick up girls, talk to your friends, watch 200+ TV channels, play HD video games with your friends, watch Zips game on the computer, Ohio State on TV (every game is televised), ...it is an indoor society kids live in now-a-days.

It is beyond apathy. It's just tough to pry them out of their room and into the real world for anything.

[Class of 82]

I didn't know what to expect when I started looking it up. Though, I was a little surprised at how well attended their games were. Definitely, way more support than Akron, as none of their regular season games drew less than 9,000. Very impressive. Just from looking at the fall-off from regular season games to the CIT (which Utah State hosted), it shows that: 1. USU has a ton of student ticket holders. 2. Expectations are very high (as the CIT is a who cares event.). 3. Also, like Gonzaga, there isn't much outside competition for sporting events in Logan, Utah (which is in the northern part of the state, 80 miles from Salt Lake City), which makes drawing fans easier.

Overall, Akron definitely should inspire to be more like Utah State, which is attainable. The bottom line for Akron, though, is winning ... and winning big (IE, multiple MAC regular season and tourney titles, winning NCAA tourney games). There is just too much competition in this region, for what is still a commuter school, to draw a Utah State-type following without winning big.

This year could be a step in that direction. This is a put up or shut up year in many ways. Zeke's senior season, tons of national pub, coming off the first MAC regular season title and nearly another NCAA tourney appearance (and Ohio's run in the tourney, I believe, legitimizes how close Akron was last year to putting a run together). I think a reasonable goal is to sell out the Ohio and Can't games and then draw about 4,000 for the other home games. Doing that could be a major step in getting a new arena. And while the JAR can't be the blame for all the attendance woes, going back to what you said to begin with, of the schools that have strung 20-win seasons together for the past seven years, all have arenas that are light-years ahead of the JAR ... there has is some correlation.

Even with that, if this team can't draw an average of 4,000 per home game this year, maybe a new arena isn't the answer, or most the economical way for the school to use its resources. It really can't be understated how important this season is for Zips basketball. If the team performs to what it is capable of, and if the fans buy into it and show up, it could be the springboard to a new arena.

Hi wadszip,

One thing you need to know about the entire state of Utah... it's a very "rah-rah" population. They are very insular, and they are proud, almost to a fault, of where they come from and where they went to school. Doesn't matter if it's BYU, UU or USU or wherever.

Sadly, very few Akronites (present company definitely excluded!) take much pride in either their community or their university with anything approaching the same sort of enthusiasm. In fact, far too many are pretty much ashamed of where they live, and the Zips get lumped in right along with that more general lack of community self-confidence and pride. I wish it were otherwise, but that is the harsh reality. The majority of area sports fans follow tOSU almost exclusively and are just your run-of-the-mill, half-interested band-wagoners when it comes to Akron or K.e.n.t.

The JAR being what it is doesn't help, but I don't think a new arena fixes the fundamental issue... which is a beaten-down community loathe to invest its emotions in anything they feel is bound to disappoint them at the end of the day. It's like Captain Kangaroo once said about his little boy's first experience with a bitter Akron loss. It ain't easy being a Zips fan. In fact, as all of us here know all too well, it's usually pretty darned hard. Consequently, a lot of Akronites and even alumni just say no thanks.

GO ZIPS!!!!!!

[BirdZip]

You can do anything from your dorm room in 2012. Take classes, pick up girls, talk to your friends, watch 200+ TV channels, play HD video games with your friends, watch Zips game on the computer, Ohio State on TV (every game is televised), ...it is an indoor society kids live in now-a-days.

It is beyond apathy. It's just tough to pry them out of their room and into the real world for anything.

Perhaps the solution is free Wi-Fi in the JAR (or maybe that already exists) and advertise it as a group chat instead of a game.

[ziptrumpet87]

Perhaps the solution is free Wi-Fi in the JAR (or maybe that already exists) and advertise it as a group chat instead of a game.

Used it last year during games; it's already there.

[taxpayer]

Sadly, very few Akronites (present company definitely excluded!) take much pride in either their community or their university with anything approaching the same sort of enthusiasm. In fact, far too many are pretty much ashamed of where they live, and the Zips get lumped in right along with that more general lack of community self-confidence and pride. I wish it were otherwise, but that is the harsh reality. The majority of area sports fans follow tOSU almost exclusively and are just your run-of-the-mill, half-interested band-wagoners when it comes to Akron or K.e.n.t.

The JAR being what it is doesn't help, but I don't think a new arena fixes the fundamental issue... which is a beaten-down community loathe to invest its emotions in anything they feel is bound to disappoint them at the end of the day. It's like Captain Kangaroo once said about his little boy's first experience with a bitter Akron loss. It ain't easy being a Zips fan. In fact, as all of us here know all too well, it's usually pretty darned hard. Consequently, a lot of Akronites and even alumni just say no thanks.

GO ZIPS!!!!!!

Don't know if I've read two more pathetic and disappointing paragraphs about a community in my life, Wow.

[Class of 82]

Don't know if I've read two more pathetic and disappointing paragraphs about a community in my life, Wow.

Sorry to bum you out. But that's just reality as I see it.

I keep hoping one day that people here will wake up and realize what a wonderful place this is. The negativity is palpable, but I don't think anything could be more misplaced or unwarranted. We've lived for several long periods in other places around the country, and I would stack the overall quality of life in NE Ohio against pretty much anywhere. (About the only thing we don't care for is the winter, but that's not a deal-breaker for us.)

One of the things that keeps me from getting too down is the genuine spirit of optimism and pride exhibited by the vast majority of participants here. If Akron is ever going to turn itself around, it's going to be because of people like you meet here. I'm proud to be associated with Zips Nation because of them. I'm proud to be from Akron, Ohio, and I'm even more proud to be a Zip.

'82

[Dave in Green]

Well said, '82. Over my life I've lived in many different states and a few different countries. I've found things to like and dislike about every area. Even after having lived for seven years in beautiful and trendy California, I still like the Akron area and NEO a lot. I've spread the word among my friends around the country, and the ones who've visited me here agree that there's a lot to like. It would be great if everyone in this area could lose the inferiority complex about where they live and realize what a nice place this is.

[Class of 82]

Well said, '82. Over my life I've lived in many different states and a few different countries. I've found things to like and dislike about every area. Even after having lived for seven years in beautiful and trendy California, I still like the Akron area and NEO a lot. I've spread the word among my friends around the country, and the ones who've visited me here agree that there's a lot to like. It would be great if everyone in this area could lose the inferiority complex about where they live and realize what a nice place this is.

Well, I guess the good news is that UA and the Zips can play a key role in rekindling a spirit of Akron pride and a tighter sense of community that we've kind of lost over the years. The coming year's Zips making the kind of NCAA run they're more than capable of would be a real shot in the arm.

And man... it would be such a blast.

GO ZIPS!!!!!

[Bubba4three]

I expect both Akron and OHIO to not choke during the regular season setting up the Zips for the at-large when they lose in the MACC again. Congrats, I will be cheering for you against Kansas State.