FBS/FCS Debate

[Spin]

There are probably some doctors in the area that might be able help you with your condition.

I must have missed the Beef O' Brady Bowl being on CBS primetime...

[Spin]

Interesting to see how the discussion pertaining to where the Zips fit into the world of college football has changed. So many threads in the past centered on Akron making the move to the Big East or C-USA.

As I see it, a lot of tags, divisions & affiliations muddy the waters. I view D1-A football like this:

Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Nebraska, Virginia Tech, Florida State, Clemson, Miami, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, LSU, Auburn, South Carolina, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, West Virginia, USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon and Notre Dame.

These 26 teams have a shot at EVER winning a National Championship and some of the teams on this list don't have a very good shot. Now, before you set to critiquing my list, I will grant you some teams could be switched out, say TCU for Michigan State or Boise for Oklahoma State or Kansas State for UCLA. However, my point is two fold: 1. The number of teams capable of being champions in the division is very small. 2. The list doesn't change much over time.

Everyone else who plays FBS football is in the same boat of comparative irrelevance as compared to the previous list. Levels of success, funding & popularity may vary, but Iowa, Cincinnati, Virginia, Mississippi, Baylor, Arizona and all of the other FBS participants not on the list have the same chance of winning the ultimate prize. Zero.

Nothing magical is ever going to happen for Zips football. There is no silver bullet. We are what we are. Personally, I like the conference we are in. It is the best conference for what we are, matched with schools that we have a whole lot in common with. If the MAC switches divisions, I am good with that. If the Zips leave the MAC to join a D1-AA conference alone, I am done.

So, you acknowledge Akron and the MAC does not belong where they are, and if they are forced to drop that's OK. But if they do it themselves, you're going to quit watching.

BS.

[K92]

I must have missed the Beef O' Brady Bowl being on CBS primetime...

Hey genius...your vaunted FCS Championship Game presented by Big Lots™ is being trumped as we speak by Mississippi vs. Pitt. Hardly a top tier bowl.

[Spin]

Hey genius...your vaunted FCS Championship Game presented by Big Lots™ is being trumped as we speak by Mississippi vs. Pitt. Hardly a top tier bowl.

I never claimed FCS was as popular as FBS.

Stop your personal attacks and we can discuss. I outgrew name calling 35 years ago.

[K92]

So, you acknowledge Akron and the MAC does not belong where they are, and if they are forced to drop that's OK. But if they do it themselves, you're going to quit watching.

BS.

Not what I said at all. Akron IS where they belong, the MAC. Whether or not the other 100 teams not on "the list" are where they belong is another question. And you can take this to the bank: A independent move down will make a lot of Zips fans stop watching.

[K92]

I never claimed FCS was as popular as FBS.

Stop your personal attacks and we can discuss. I outgrew name calling 35 years ago.

I guess it is ok for you to make your smart ass comments, but you don't extend the same courtesy to others with different viewpoints.

[Spin]

Not what I said at all. Akron IS where they belong, the MAC. Whether or not the other 100 teams not on "the list" are where they belong is another question. And you can take this to the bank: A independent move down will make a lot of Zips fans stop watching.

Maybe, but a winning team would multiply attendance without them. And most of those people would eventually come back, acting like nothing ever happened. If a few elitists stay away, are they really fans? Let them watch tOSU.

[Spin]

I guess it is ok for you to make your smart ass comments, but you don't extend the same courtesy to others with different viewpoints.

Claiming the FCS is on the same network as the MAC "bowls" is hardly an personal insult in my book. Bit it must have struck a nerve, you didn't go vigilante when I said the local D3 teams were on TV more than the Zips.

[K92]

Maybe, but a winning team would multiply attendance without them. And most of those people would eventually come back, acting like nothing ever happened. If a few elitists stay away, are they really fans? Let them watch tOSU.

Am I an elitist for being one of the minority who enjoys MAC games? I have never had delusions of grandeur about the Zips. I have always been against the delusional pipe dream of moving to another conference like BE or C-USA. The people who think Akron is somehow better than the MAC are the ones you should direct your venom toward, not me.

[ZachTheZip]

Only in your mind. FCS is on the four letter network. Just like the Mickey Mouse bowl games the MAC regularly plays in.

The FCS Championship game is on an ESPN station. One game. Singular. No other FCS game makes it, for the entirety of the season.

Discounting ESPN3, the MAC had 15 regular season games on ESPN/ESPN2/ESPNU.

The odds of making the FCS championship game are slim, even for the best teams. The MAC has every team guaranteed at least one game on the network.

Do you think that a single game shared between only two of the 127 FCS teams provides anywhere the same benefit as knowing in advance that you will be on national TV and being to tell your recruits that?

[ZachTheZip]

It would take far less $$$ to be competitive at the I-AA level.

The burden of proof is on you. Show me the evidence. Also factor in lost revenue from dropping the MAC TV contract and bowl money, a total and unrecoverable collapse of ticket sales no matter how many games we win against Southeastern State of Louisiana and Texas Agricultural and Mechanical College of Corpus Christi, losing our entire corperate sponsorship structure, and every big donor pulling their money.

[Dave in Green]

Just finished reading UA's Vision 2020 to see if sports are included in the future vision. Following is the only brief section that mentions the role of athletics (my boldface added):

Our shared and seamless physical space fosters greater interaction with the broader Akron community. The University will strengthen its magnetic draw as a cultural hub for the arts, thought leadership, exhibitions, and athletics. We welcome the community to the campus and enrich the intellectual, social and cultural experiences for students, faculty and staff. A stronger campus/community connection synergizes the development of all. Just as in our successful athletics program: We will not simply win championships; we will create champions. This philosophy is the basis for The Akron Experience that blends academic and experiential learning into each student’s capabilities, helping to make the transition from campus to community seamless, and creating a new generation of “civic champions.”

It sounds to me as if a key purpose of the athletic programs is to attract the broader Akron community to visit the campus to watch sporting events. As we've discussed over and over in many different threads over the years, the general public is attracted by local teams that perform well against name opponents. Football obviously has the potential to draw bigger crowds than any other sport, so a successful football program is an important component of this section of Vision 2020. I think it's imperative to have a Zips football team that performs well against name opponents. I don't think that either winning against lower level opponents or having name opponents but not winning is going to get the job done. Prior to this season, the Zips football program hit rock bottom, resulting in pathetic attendance. This season UA made a bold move by bringing in quality, recognizable coaches to turn the program around, and it produced a slight uptick in performance if not final record. Next season will give us all a better idea of what's possible.

Personally, I see nothing in Vision 2020 that suggests voluntarily moving down a level in any area, including football, would be helpful in implementing this plan.

[Spin]

The FCS Championship game is on an ESPN station. One game. Singular. No other FCS game makes it, for the entirety of the season.

Discounting ESPN3, the MAC had 15 regular season games on ESPN/ESPN2/ESPNU.

The odds of making the FCS championship game are slim, even for the best teams. The MAC has every team guaranteed at least one game on the network.

Do you think that a single game shared between only two of the 127 FCS teams provides anywhere the same benefit as knowing in advance that you will be on national TV and being to tell your recruits that?

You do realize I never pretended FCS got the same national exposure as even the MAC. Some of you take anything I say as an argument against you, and I am not interested in having that type of discussion, no matter how many times you try to this into a pissing match.

The game was on TV. I let everyone know. If you wanted to check it out, you could. If it was beneath you, you didn't have to. Whatever else you read into it, shove it. I'm not here to split hairs and bicker.

Heck one poster has the game logo as their Avatar, start shit with them...

[Spin]

Just finished reading UA's Vision 2020 to see if sports are included in the future vision. Following is the only brief section that mentions the role of athletics (my boldface added):

It sounds to me as if a key purpose of the athletic programs is to attract the broader Akron community to visit the campus to watch sporting events. As we've discussed over and over in many different threads over the years, the general public is attracted by local teams that perform well against name opponents. Football obviously has the potential to draw bigger crowds than any other sport, so a successful football program is an important component of this section of Vision 2020. I think it's imperative to have a Zips football team that performs well against name opponents. I don't think that either winning against lower level opponents or having name opponents but not winning is going to get the job done. Prior to this season, the Zips football program hit rock bottom, resulting in pathetic attendance. This season UA made a bold move by bringing in quality, recognizable coaches to turn the program around, and it produced a slight uptick in performance if not final record. Next season will give us all a better idea of what's possible.

Personally, I see nothing in Vision 2020 that suggests voluntarily moving down a level in any area, including football, would be helpful in implementing this plan.

I agree with everything here, except the bolded part. For one, looking at attendance records of the Akron Aeros and Cleveland Force in Summit County, they weren't playing the New York Yankees or Manchester United. Nobody cared, the teams were competitive, and the fans had a great time at the game.

#2 I doubt the common football fan knows the difference between Eastern Kentucky and Eastern Michigan. Or which one is at Ohio States level. IN fact, the Morgan State drew more fans than Miami, NIU, and UMess.

And #3, bringing in name opponents is pretty much impossible, beating them even more. I'd love to see home and home series against Cincinnati, Pitt, WV. Even Army. But how do we get there?

I'd love to win the Daytona 500, but my budget allows me to bracket race at Dragway 42 several times a year. I don't think I'm gonna make the Daytona starting grid anytime soon...

[Dave in Green]

Morgan State drew a lot of fans because it was the first game in the new stadium, before the Zips went into a deep funk and lost 41 of their next 46 games.

But Coach Dambrot appreciates that you disagree with all those who blame the poor turnouts at the JAR on the no-name teams the Zips are able to schedule, even though the Zips win the vast majority of those home games.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

I agree with everything here, except the bolded part. For one, looking at attendance records of the Akron Aeros and Cleveland Force in Summit County, they weren't playing the New York Yankees or Manchester United. Nobody cared, the teams were competitive, and the fans had a great time at the game.

#2 I doubt the common football fan knows the difference between Eastern Kentucky and Eastern Michigan. Or which one is at Ohio States level. IN fact, the Morgan State drew more fans than Miami, NIU, and UMess.

And #3, bringing in name opponents is pretty much impossible, beating them even more. I'd love to see home and home series against Cincinnati, Pitt, WV. Even Army. But how do we get there?

I'd love to win the Daytona 500, but my budget allows me to bracket race at Dragway 42 several times a year. I don't think I'm gonna make the Daytona starting grid anytime soon...

There are far too many Zips fans, who are well-meaning and good fans, but who are wedded to the fantasy that Akron will somehow, someway, become a MAC power at the least and the next Boise at best. It doesn't matter how many facts you present, the salaries of the staffs, the attendance, the win/loss record over 25 YEARS, etc etc etc, they see and "know" what they want. It's a fantasy that Akron can, or will, compete at the FBS level, but there are fewer rational fans here than I thought. So, let them wallow in continued failure. For DIG, Vision Statements are patently delusional fantasies. My organization is BIG into Vision Statements now, and the Visions Statements that leadership typically comes up with are pure fantasy. I respect you, but I care not what the UA Vision Statements are. This is the same group of leaders who have allowed the football program to become a national embarrassment. The football program is an albatross around the neck of UA. Locals, people I know, my friends, make fun of me for being an Akron fan. Why? Because of the ridiculous sad-sack program on the football field. Soccer does their part. BB does their part. Hell, track does their part, but the GD football team is a freaking joke. I just want them to compete at a level at which they have a realistic chance to win games. Is that REALLY so much to ask?

[Dave in Green]

..... Locals, people I know, my friends, make fun of me for being an Akron fan. Why? Because of the ridiculous sad-sack program on the football field. .....

And that's what this is really about, isn't it? I see this recurring theme over and over -- people tying their manhood to the results of their school's football team. They can't face up to the taunts of their friends questioning the ability of their college football team. So they want their football team to drop down and play against elementary school girls so they can run up a great winning record and restore your manhood. Grow your own pair.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

And that's what this is really about, isn't it? I see this recurring theme over and over -- people tying their manhood to the results of their school's football team. They can't face up to the taunts of their friends questioning the ability of their college football team. So they want their football team to drop down and play against elementary school girls so they can run up a great winning record and restore your manhood. Grow your own pair.

Dave In Green DRUNK ON A SATURDAY NIGHT. The well-reasoned, logical Mr. Spock of ZN would never make such a post. I love it. Raw emotion. However, please remember that the friends I speak of ARE Joe Akron. Ultimately, if UA can't find a way to make them reconsider their scorn for this program, UA will be a failure. It's not about the losers (all of us) who post here and actually care about the fate of UA, it's about attracting Joe Akron to pay to attend games on Saturdays. You know it. I know it. When will Luis realize that without Joe Akron there is no fandom at the Info?

By the way, I am drinking delicious Chimay Triple tonight, painting the interior of the house. That's a HOT Saturday night. BAM!

[Dave in Green]

Got your attention, didn't I? Just the usual nightly dose of red wine (old vine Zinfandel), which my doctor recommends for a healthy heart. And since Dr. Proenza signed off on Vision 2020, he understands that it's Joe Akron that he's trying to tempt to visit the campus to attend Zips games. He understands the monthly payments that are being made on the new football facilities, and the number of Joe Akrons who are paying to attend each game. If he could turn it all around with a snap of his fingers, he'd just snap his fingers. But then he might as well just be another disgruntled fan posting on an internet forum who imagines it's just as easy as snapping your fingers.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

Got your attention, didn't I? Just the usual nightly dose of red wine (old vine Zinfandel), which my doctor recommends for a healthy heart. And since Dr. Proenza signed off on Vision 2020, he understands that it's Joe Akron that he's trying to tempt to visit the campus to attend Zips games. He understands the monthly payments that are being made on the new football facilities, and the number of Joe Akrons who are paying to attend each game. If he could turn it all around with a snap of his fingers, he'd just snap his fingers. But then he might as well just be another disgruntled fan posting on an internet forum who imagines it's just as easy as snapping your fingers.

I'm in SoCal snapping, snapping, snapping away! Can you see the changes happening there?

[Spin]

Morgan State drew a lot of fans because it was the first game in the new stadium, before the Zips went into a deep funk and lost 41 of their next 46 games.

But Coach Dambrot appreciates that you disagree with all those who blame the poor turnouts at the JAR on the no-name teams the Zips are able to schedule, even though the Zips win the vast majority of those home games.

I was talking this year's Morgan State game, 9,933 peeps. The Miami game had 8,211, Northern Illinois 7,074, and UMess 7,716.

The opener against UCF drew 12,616 and the BGSU game 10,102.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

I was talking this year's Morgan State game, 9,933 peeps. The Miami game had 8,211, Northern Illinois 7,074, and UMess 7,716.

The opener against UCF drew 12,616 and the BGSU game 10,102.

We'll agree that those are SOLID FCS attendance numbers. Spin, why is it that apparently we're the only two who can actually read and digest numbers and facts as they apply to this program?

[Dr Z]

Do you think those numbers have a chance to go up if coach Bowden fields a winning progrum?

[Dave in Green]

I was talking this year's Morgan State game, 9,933 peeps. The Miami game had 8,211, Northern Illinois 7,074, and UMess 7,716.

The opener against UCF drew 12,616 and the BGSU game 10,102.

OK, I get it now. The general home attendance trend of this season was downward throughout the year as the losses mounted. Generally with a winning team, after accounting for variables like weather, special events, etc., more fans tend to show up for games against bigger name opponents in any sport at any school.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the Bowling Green game was a small upward blip in the otherwise downward attendance trend because it celebrated homecoming.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

Do you think those numbers have a chance to go up if coach Bowden fields a winning progrum?

Sure they'll go up, Dr. It's a big IF though, don't you think, all these years in? Are you aware of recruits coming in that are likely to change the bigger picture for us?