Bowden Says JAR Needs Replaced

[lance99]

@lance99, I'm not trying to dump on you. I appreciate what you posted. I believe that Akron's current total debt load probably is much closer to $1 billion than $80 million. With a population of about 200k, $1 billion in debt works out to about $5k debt per citizen. There's obviously more to it than that. But $5k per citizen is not out of line as long as the local economy can support it. A lot of the debt is in infrastructure, such as water mains, etc., that comes back in property taxes.

Different politicians will tell you different things. Extreme liberals might say you can never borrow too much and extreme conservatives might say that not taking on debt of any kind is God's 11th commandment for which there wasn't room on the stone tablets that Moses brought down from Mount Sinai. All I'm saying is that the answer is somewhere in between. If a good financial case could be made for a new arena, the City of Akron could reasonably take on that debt. If the financial case is not there, the prudent thing is not to take the risk.

Dave,

I know that you are not, however, I agree that it is probably closer to 1 billion like Kilby said(I just want him on camera saying that). However the fact of the matter is that the City is in no position to build anything, unless there is voter approval. There are many people on this site that want Akron to step down. I say: Ok, do you want Basketball and Soccer to step down also? That is a honest question. I say that because to drop down in football, you will (per the NCAA) have to drop everything else in level. There is no way that Soccer and Basketball would go for that. It is like when Akron moved up many moons ago. Huggins bailed because they went independent.

This is an complex subject and like I said two years ago, you need someone(Like Goodyear, which is the only other option), to "stroke the check" to get it done.

[Spin]

There are many people on this site that want Akron to step down. I say: Ok, do you want Basketball and Soccer to step down also? That is a honest question. I say that because to drop down in football, you will (per the NCAA) have to drop everything else in level. There is no way that Soccer and Basketball would go for that.

If football dropped to Division I-AA, note the I, why would basketball and soccer have to drop from I to II?

Although if basketball did drop to Division II, the JAR would be appropriate.

[Dave in Green]

I think that any consideration of dropping to a lower division in soccer or basketball is a non-issue when your soccer team has won the D-I national championship and your basketball team has made it to the D-I NCAA tournament in 3 of the last 5 seasons. I'm just looking at the narrow issue of a modern arena, either for UA alone or shared with the City of Akron. I'm pretty neutral on how it happens as long as it's done intelligently and doesn't put an albatross around the neck of either party.

[GoZips]

If football dropped to Division I-AA, note the I, why would basketball and soccer have to drop from I to II?

Although if basketball did drop to Division II, the JAR would be appropriate.

I am soooo tired of this chestnut. The University of Akron is not going to even consider falling back to FBS football.

The entire athletic program would take such a hit that there would be not recovery in your grand children's lifetime.

It simply ain't happening.

Besides, dropping sports entirely would not make up for the short comings of the JAR. Replacement, in due course, is

the only viable answer. Be patient.

This is a great university. Treat it like one and you will be amazed at the results. All you negative nellies crawl back into

you comfy rag piles and go back to sleep for another generation.

[lance99]

I am soooo tired of this chestnut. The University of Akron is not going to even consider falling back to FBS football.

The entire athletic program would take such a hit that there would be not recovery in your grand children's lifetime.

It simply ain't happening.

Besides, dropping sports entirely would not make up for the short comings of the JAR. Replacement, in due course, is

the only viable answer. Be patient.

This is a great university. Treat it like one and you will be amazed at the results. All you negative nellies crawl back into

you comfy rag piles and go back to sleep for another generation.

"negative nellies." I have not seen anyone use that in a long time.

You are correct about the hit that all the programs would take. Typical "woe is us" fans who want to drop down.

[skip-zip]

With all due respect, consider the source on that one. Kilby is kind of a nut and an outsider to the Don and his boys. There are ways the city can help beyond direct compensation also, as I don't doubt finances are still in poor shape.

Why is anyone doubting that the talk of a joint venture from the city for a U of A Basketball arena was just that.........talk.

I told you guys a few years ago, a new Akron basketball arena was likely a decade away, sadly.

[ZachTheZip]

As I understand it, they're doing more than just the lobby.

This season, we should be able to turn the lights out for the player intros. We haven't been able to do that in the past because the lights would take about 30 minutes to cycle back on.

[Spin]

One program dropping to a lower sub of DI does not have ONE SINGLE THING to do with any of the other programs.

You geezers are so against anything different you can't even keep the topics straight. It's all just melding together into one big pile of crap.

I'm trying, I'm really trying to wrap my arms around the idea of the soccer and basketball programs playing for national championships, while the football team strives to build a program that can contend to play the 8th best B10 team in the Pizza Bowl. I'm just not there yet.

[ZachTheZip]

One program dropping to a lower sub of DI does not have ONE SINGLE THING to do with any of the other programs.

Except eliminating millions of dollars in funding for those other programs.

[Spin]

Soooooo football is the sacraficial lamb for these other programs that can't sustain themselves. I guess all those fee$ I was paying to cover those sports was wasted? Or was I paying off the softball stadium (while getting splinters at the baseball uhhhh swamp)?

Maybe with REAL facilities, the basketball program wouldn't have to rely on the football team getting destroyed by a B10 school every year. Maybe LeBron should help more.

Maybe we should have built a new arena for the basketball instead of the new football stadium, since the football team makes all of their money on the road.

Great system we got here, trying to compete with the big boys with a baby boy budget. I guess Huggins just didn't see the big picture.

[legendofzippy]

Soooooo football is the sacraficial lamb for these other programs that can't sustain themselves. I guess all those fee$ I was paying to cover those sports was wasted? Or was I paying off the softball stadium (while getting splinters at the baseball uhhhh swamp)?

Maybe with REAL facilities, the basketball program wouldn't have to rely on the football team getting destroyed by a B10 school every year. Maybe LeBron should help more.

Maybe we should have built a new arena for the basketball instead of the new football stadium, since the football team makes all of their money on the road.

Great system we got here, trying to compete with the big boys with a baby boy budget. I guess Huggins just didn't see the big picture.

Cutting to the chase... what is your point? Akron is never going to compete for a national championship, so just get over that part already.

Who cares? We're closing in on the 3 year anniversary of our last FBS win and you're worried about a national championship? Let's try winning the MAC a few more times.

[Spin]

So you think football will always suck? And you're calling me a pessimist?

My point is, since you haven't figured it out yet, is I want to see the football team be able to aspire to something greater than a third-rate bowl game against a .500 opponent.

Am I the only one who has football as my favorite sport? I guess I went to the wrong $%# &$#% school then, if all it's there for is to prop up the basketball team that can't sustain itself.

[LZIp]

So you think football will always suck? And you're calling me a pessimist?

My point is, since you haven't figured it out yet, is I want to see the football team be able to aspire to something greater than a third-rate bowl game against a .500 opponent.

Am I the only one who has football as my favorite sport? I guess I went to the wrong $%# &$#% school then, if all it's there for is to prop up the basketball team that can't sustain itself.

I believe the MAC champ went to a top-rate bowl game last season. Impossible for us? If Can't would have knocked off NIU, they would have been there in their place. The MAC is set up nicely to go to a BCS bowl in the future, better than the present set up, anyways.

[Spin]

I believe the MAC champ went to a top-rate bowl game last season. Impossible for us? If Can't would have knocked off NIU, they would have been there in their place. The MAC is set up nicely to go to a BCS bowl in the future, better than the present set up, anyways.

But I'm talking about playing for a national championship in football. Legend said it in his post " Akron is never going to compete for a national championship".

The same 10-12 "legacy" schools are all that are eligible for the BCS championship. And the playoffs aren't going to change that. They still have the same selection process to pick the four legacy schools as they did the two legacy schools. And even if there were a better system where conference champions would play off for a spot in the championship game, the MAC (and the MWC, and C-USA, and the SBC) are not going to be invited. Because the legacy schools still rule the NCAA, and are not about to let anyone else in.

I'd rather see those four conferences have a four team playoff than go to a bowl game. Or a playoff to decide which two GO TO a bowl game. That would be much more entertaining and more of an accomplishment.

To wrap it up, if you depend on a football away game against a team 50 points better than you (and bowl revenue) to sustain your athletics, you are in over your head. I don't know how else to explain that.

[GP1]

My point is, since you haven't figured it out yet, is I want to see the football team be able to aspire to something greater than a third-rate bowl game against a .500 opponent.

So do I. That's why I hope the BCS schools divorce themselves from the non-bcs schools and we can go on our merry way, in our own division, and play for a national championship.

[legendofzippy]

Am I the only one who has football as my favorite sport? I guess I went to the wrong $%# &$#% school then, if all it's there for is to prop up the basketball team that can't sustain itself.

If you picked your school based on the football team, you made two bad choices.

It's basically impossible for the MAC to play for a championship, and an Ohio school? No way. OSU will always dominate in-state recruiting, plus we have to split the next level guys with Can't, Toledo, BGSU, etc., so again, lets lower expectations a bit and try to win a few games first.

BTW, the basketball team has virtually no shot either. The possibility is there for that sport because of small rosters, but the blue-bloods have resources we could never dream of.

What's wrong with winning the conference championship anyway? It's the life of a small school. If you're not ok with it, you should have picked somewhere else.

[Spin]

It's basically impossible for the MAC to play for a championship, and an Ohio school? No way. OSU will always dominate in-state recruiting, plus we have to split the next level guys with Can't, Toledo, BGSU, etc., so again, lets lower expectations a bit and try to win a few games first.

BTW, the basketball team has virtually no shot either. The possibility is there for that sport because of small rosters, but the blue-bloods have resources we could never dream of.

What's wrong with winning the conference championship anyway? It's the life of a small school.

Sounds like several very good reasons to play FCS football and have a lot more fun...

My high school won their conference and went to the playoffs. In Division 4. It was a hell of a lot of fun. And if things had fallen into place, we could have had a chance to win the state championship. In Division 4. Nobody whined and moaned about not trying to be Whitmer and Moeller and St. Eds. Nobody would have traded that experience for a 42-0 ass kicking in Massillon.

Same with the Canton Invaders. While we were celebrating an indoor soccer championship, nobody complained that we weren't playing ManU and Barcelona.

It's about living within your means.

[g-mann17]

Sounds like several very good reasons to play FCS football and have a lot more fun...

My high school won their conference and went to the playoffs. In Division 4. It was a hell of a lot of fun. And if things had fallen into place, we could have had a chance to win the state championship. In Division 4. Nobody whined and moaned about not trying to be Whitmer and Moeller and St. Eds. Nobody would have traded that experience for a 42-0 ass kicking in Massillon.

Same with the Canton Invaders. While we were celebrating an indoor soccer championship, nobody complained that we weren't playing ManU and Barcelona.

It's about living within your means.

Your logic works both ways.

When we won the MAC nobody was complaining it wasn't the Big 10 or ACC, when we went bowling 20,000 fans had no problem going to Detroit even though it wasn't New Orleans or Pasadena, and nobody complained it was called the Motor City Bowl and not the BCS National Championship Game.

We all had fun, and it was extremely exciting.

[legendofzippy]

Sounds like several very good reasons to play FCS football and have a lot more fun...

My high school won their conference and went to the playoffs. In Division 4. It was a hell of a lot of fun. And if things had fallen into place, we could have had a chance to win the state championship. In Division 4. Nobody whined and moaned about not trying to be Whitmer and Moeller and St. Eds. Nobody would have traded that experience for a 42-0 ass kicking in Massillon.

Same with the Canton Invaders. While we were celebrating an indoor soccer championship, nobody complained that we weren't playing ManU and Barcelona.

It's about living within your means.

I'll agree with a slight twist. First, ditch FBS and FCS. Go with Div I, Div II, Div III, etc. Div I could be the big 5 conferences, II the mid-majors, III gets in to the FCS level, then on down into the Mount Union level and beyond.

You'd have some teams that would be borderline, but I think it would make more sense. You could still play another division in games - I believe that was North Dakota State's seventh FBS win in recent years - just not in playoffs. Then we'd have a realistic shot at a title.

People that run the bowls will prevent that as long as possible, but I wish someone could prove if it would be more lucrative. Maybe it wouldn't be, who knows.

Some teams wouldn't be happy with their division, but maybe the soccer model of moving up/down could come into play. Pitt was on last night and they're as good as an example as anyone. They can't compete with the big boys right now, but they'd probably not like competing in Div II either, as a matter of pride.

[skip-zip]

If you picked your school based on the football team, you made two bad choices.

It's basically impossible for the MAC to play for a championship, and an Ohio school? No way. OSU will always dominate in-state recruiting, plus we have to split the next level guys with Can't, Toledo, BGSU, etc., so again, lets lower expectations a bit and try to win a few games first.

BTW, the basketball team has virtually no shot either.

Try telling that to Butler, who just recently played in two title games.

[zestycoyote]

Try telling that to Butler, who just recently played in two title games.

I think virtually no shot is about right. How many Butlers or equivalent do you see in the championship game over the past 20 years?

2013 - Louisville def. Michigan

2012 - Kentucky def. Kansas

2011 - Connecticut def. Butler

2010 - Duke def. Butler

2009 - North Carolina def. Michigan State

2008 - Kansas def. Memphis

2007 - Florida def. Ohio State

2006 - Florida def. UCLA

2005 - North Carolina def. Illinois

2004 - Connecticut def. Georgia Tech

2003 - Syracuse def. Kansas

2002 - Maryland def. Indiana

2001 - Duke def. Arizona

2000 - Michigan State def. Florida

1999 - Connecticut def. Duke

1998 - Kentucky def. Utah

1997 - Arizona def. Kentucky

1996 - Kentucky def. Syracuse

1995 - UCLA def. Arkansas

1994 - Arkansas def. Duke

1993 - North Carolina def Michigan

1992 - Duke def. Michigan

[MaxZIP]

There are 351 Div 1 Basketball Programs. 68 make the "playoffs". Advancing to even the second round places teams in rarified air and is an accomplishment. Making the round of 16 or 4 is a success for all but the top 4-5 teams. College basketball is fun and the Zips are good at it. They have a great coach who is invested in the university and city. Enjoy it.

[RACER]

somebody can correct me if I am wrong. i thought the basketball team always made money .the football team loses money. that's why they have to go on the road.

all the mac fb teams go on the road for money games.i don't know where the term the fb team is propping up the basketball team comes from.if the b-ball team makes money

what does that have to do with football?

[MaxZIP]

The tide has been turning in college basketball. More mid majors are making the sweet 16 and final four than ever before. The Zips are poised to be the next team due to KD's commitment adding stability to the coaching and recruiting of top talent.

Final Four Appearances by Mids

2013 Wichita State from Missouri Valley

2011 Butler from Horizon

2011 VCU from Colonial

2010 Butler from Horizon

2006 George Mason

[MaxZIP]

somebody can correct me if I am wrong. i thought the basketball team always made money .the football team loses money. that's why they have to go on the road.

all the mac fb teams go on the road for money games.i don't know where the term the fb team is propping up the basketball team comes from.if the b-ball team makes money

what does that have to do with football?

This should answer your question

Over 75% of the athletic budget comes from student fees. The Basketball team "breaks even" and has more ticket revenue that the tyoical sport but they are by no means making a profit.