NEO University?

[ZachTheZip]

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/11/05/Colleges-consider-consolidating-services.html

Akron, Can't, and YSU looking at a merger. Wouldn't be surprised if they try to bring in CSU as well. I don't see something like this working out very well.

[K92]

I think I have a solution!

OSU-Akron

OSU-Can't

OSU-Youngstown

OSU-Cleveland

Done!

[ZippyRulz]

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/11/05/Colleges-consider-consolidating-services.html

Akron, Can't, and YSU looking at a merger. Wouldn't be surprised if they try to bring in CSU as well. I don't see something like this working out very well.

"...an outright merger of Youngstown State, the University of Akron and Can't State University has not been discussed..."

[ZippyRulz]

I think I have a solution!

OSU-Akron

OSU-Can't

OSU-Youngstown

OSU-Cleveland

Done!

That would dissolve 3 football programs right quick..

[Dave in Green]

The key term in that story is "consolidate some services." This is something that's been successfully used in the corporate world with competing companies consolidating some services in non-competitive areas to save money for all parties. It can be effective if done right and is a pretty smart thing to consider. It's no surprise that the schools are "being pushed and encouraged by everyone in Columbus" as state money for higher education has been a favorite area for cutbacks.

[GP1]

Combining Treasury/Accounting services, IT and those types of services makes sense to me. Those are functions that with the technology available today should make it easy to combine.

I don't like combining research because it is limiting to the thought process that universities are supposed to foster.

Combining purchasing is OK if it is for things like buying paper, copier services, cafeteria food, lawn mowers, general facilities maintenance items, etc.

Combining purchasing is not OK if it is for buying things central to research because research can be so different from school to school that it would make it difficult for the researchers to complete their projects effectively.

Money needs to be cut....and lots of it. People are a huge expense and it makes sense that if they can eliminate redundant positions it could help to clean up the books.

[skip-zip]

The key term in that story is "consolidate some services." This is something that's been successfully used in the corporate world with competing companies consolidating some services in non-competitive areas to save money for all parties. It can be effective if done right and is a pretty smart thing to consider. It's no surprise that the schools are "being pushed and encouraged by everyone in Columbus" as state money for higher education has been a favorite area for cutbacks.

Dave, I've seen some of this in non-profit areas, but not otherwise. Tell me where you've seen this in the private sector, especially among competitors.

[GP1]

Dave, I've seen some of this in non-profit areas, but not otherwise. Tell me where you've seen this in the private sector, especially among competitors.

Do you work for the government?

[Dave in Green]

Dave, I've seen some of this in non-profit areas, but not otherwise. Tell me where you've seen this in the private sector, especially among competitors.

Skip, the regular media doesn't cover stories like this so most aren't familiar with how common it is. You really have to read trade publications for different industries to understand what goes on behind the scenes. For example, I used to follow the auto industry pretty closely and remember reading in trade publications about many examples over the years. For example, General Motors and Ford agreed a decade ago to co-develop a common 6-speed automatic transmission design that both companies are still using. Most people who drive Ford and GM vehicles have no idea that their automatic transmissions were developed by a team of Ford and GM engineers. It saved both companies hundreds of millions of dollars. Ford and GM are currently collaborating on development of 9- and 10-speed automatic transmissions. GM also leveraged purchasing with Fiat and Peugeot for awhile, saving hundreds of millions of dollars through larger combined orders for raw materials and common minor components. GP1 could probably give you some examples from the construction industry.

[GP1]

I cannot think of a case of that level of product development. I can think of many cases where like product manufacturers will use their trade association to influence International Building Code in favor of their existing manufacturing processes.

[LosAngelesZipFan]

Combining UA and Can't State is a fantastic and long overdue concept. There is very little upside for these 2 similar schools to compete for a shrinking base of support and students. By combining, they would create a world-class institution in scope and scale (and hopefully eventually in quality). 60K students on 11 campuses; 350K in alumni; significant endowment; scale in research with several well-established, world-class, complimentary areas (polymers and liquid crystals). Combine Akron, Can't, and NEOUCOM first- start with the strongest, closest, most competitive institutions to show it can work and to create instant momentum/news. Let that start working and gain momentum, and then add in YSU and CSU.

If you were designing the Ohio system from scratch, this is what you would do-- tier 1 schools in south, central and ne ohio. Only thing that makes sense.

Imagine if they had done this 20 years ago-- think of what an institution of that size and scale could do.

Look to Arizona State for a great model. Open to all but very high quality outcomes and globally important research. A combined UA and Can't would be in this:

http://www.theuia.org/ . But on their own, they don't merit inclusion so instead they went to OSU.

Akron would be the graduate, science, engineering, and business campus. Can't the undergraduate and liberal arts campus. There is already a train connecting them-- upgrade that and run it every 30 minutes.

Totally doable. Only thing lacking has been will.

[ZachTheZip]

The train tracks that run from UA to Can't State are gone. The rail bed is being converted into a bike path. I'm looking forward to its completion.

[GP1]

Totally doable. Only thing lacking has been will.

Thank God!

[LosAngelesZipFan]

I'm kind of surprised this doesn't appeal to you GP1 given your oft-expressed views on the futility of MAC football. I think that struggle is analogous to struggles of mid-tier universities as a whole. Our whole cohort of schools are struggling to keep above water while the bigger schools sprint away.

From a business perspective, this is a classic case where a merger is obvious and critical. There are too many brands serving a non-growth market. Neither Can't nor UA (let alone C- or Y-SU) will ever get into a truly dominant position vs the others-- unless the state forces it at some point. That's what almost happened a couple years ago with Fingerhut. It is really impossible to justify the redundancies of UA and Can't in terms of the areas they serve, administrative costs, athletic subsidies, etc. Given that, I think it would be better for UA to drive this, rather than wait for it to happen to it.

As much a Zips fan as I am, I would much rather root for a combined U playing at the same level of Cincy.

[GP1]

I'm kind of surprised this doesn't appeal to you GP1 given your oft-expressed views on the futility of MAC football. I think that struggle is analogous to struggles of mid-tier universities as a whole. Our whole cohort of schools are struggling to keep above water while the bigger schools sprint away.

I think MAC football and universities struggle for different reasons. Both involve resume building programs by university administrators, but that's about where it ends. MAC football "struggles" (not sure I would say it is struggling right now, but we can save that discussion for the football forum) because they want to be something other than what they are in a structure that is set up for them to always be behind bigger schools.

Universities are struggling because leaders at those universities believed throwing up a bunch of play grounds for students, building stadiums, adding employees and generally making their system too big while disregarding basic statistics showing their efforts were pipe dreams. Additionally, they financed the building process through student fees that were being paid out of student loans that will be crippling a generation for decades to come. It was the key to their resume building, but not the key to success. Universities should have been downsizing crap degrees years ago in lieu of allowing things like Womens Studies programs to exist (those programs belong in Sociology Departments, not their own department). Akron can get its books in order, it will just take a lot of cutting of crap programs to do that. There are similarities between what has gone on at universities and the housing bubble. In the end, the taxpayers are going to have to bail out universities and students with crippling debt just like they did the banks.

Akron is a better school than Can't, YSU and CSU. Combining those schools with Akron devalues my degree and I'm not interested. If you want a football analogy, it's like the Big Ten saying the league is better with the addition of Rutgers and Maryland. All the addition of those schools did was devalue an already declining conference.

[LosAngelesZipFan]

Totally agree on the "edifice complex" that has jacked up college costs beyond all reason. My company was part of releasing a film about this-- Ivory Tower. Definitely worth watching.

I'm not sure why you think there is a significant qualitative difference between Akron and Can't-- I'd like to think so, but in any way that someone not from our area would evaluate the schools, I don't think that can be substantiated. And further to the point, it is the external perception that matters in this instance. My degree would be worth more if people knew of my school and had a positive impression of it-- I don't think either Akron or Can't rank high in either aspect.

More to the point, consolidating would provide a platform to cut costs dramatically. One athletic department-- one football team, one basketbal team etc. Savings from that alone would be like $15 million. Probably easy to save $30 million in consolidating administration and academic programs. You don't need 2 College of Nursing buildings, etc., so you save on the capital expenditure as well. This is probably the only way to significantly cut these budgets.

Can't's budget is $638 million for FY 2014 and UA's is around $450 million. (For comparison, UC's is about $1.1 billion, about equal to a combined UA/Can't.) Let's make a conservative assumption that you could find $30 million of costs savings by eliminating redundancies. That is 10x what UA is getting from its endowment. $30 million would almost double what UA gives in scholarships. $30 million is also more that UA generates in student fees. $30 million is 5x what UA pays in debt service that was incurred to pay for the Landscape for Learning and Infocision Stadium. And my gut says that you find significantly more than 3% savings out of a combined $1.1 billion budget when you started consolidating all the operations, administration, etc.

Akron was once Buchtel College, then it was a municipal college, then a state university. These 2 universities share/compete for a common geography, talent pool, and resources. That pool is static or shrinking. It is more a historical anomaly that these 2 state schools happened to come into existence this way, than a logical way to serve the best interests of the community.

It's a gamechanger, the only one realistically available that would dramatically alter either school's trajectory.

[Dave in Green]

LosAngelesZipFan, you seem to have a pretty good handle on university economics. The $30 million savings estimate sounds reasonable, and you make good points about the value to UA relative to various costs and income sources. The smart thing to do would be to enter into a longterm agreement to study all aspects of the schools and start with simple consolidations of services in non-competitive areas where there are clear mutual savings. Then measure how those changes work while studying other possible areas of cooperation.

[GP1]

I'm not sure why you think there is a significant qualitative difference between Akron and Can't-- I'd like to think so, but in any way that someone not from our area would evaluate the schools, I don't think that can be substantiated.

Name a college they have better than what we have in the following areas. I'm not talking about outside perception. I'm talking actual faculty, research and quality of graduates.

Engineering (I've actually never met anyone with an engineering degree from Can't. Do they even have an engineering school? We have an entire glass tower for one type of engineering.)

Education

Nursing (ask any doctor around NE Ohio and they will tell you how good the nursing program at Akron is)

Business (Can someone point out all of the great business leaders around NE Ohio that went to Can't or got an MBA from Can't. NE Ohio is full of business leaders from UofA.)

Arts and Sciences (They don't have anything resembling the Bliss Institute)

How is their law school doing?

The day we combine athletic programs with Can't will be the day I completely tune out.

If they want to combine non research, education, admissions and athletics, then fine. Lots of states have co-op buying programs...Texas and Michigan have them and they work pretty good.

[zippy5]

Well Can't has a fashion school that's tops from what I hear

[tboned]

I am all for operational efficiency and organizational stream lining I am not prepared to lose our identity. I am not willing to have my soul stripped away. My personal support and affinity for my school would disappear.

The Country is experiencing difficult economic times. It’s has been almost six years since the great recession began. And we still have not recovered. A thriving economy would do much to alleviate the financial burdens on all of these schools.

I hate to get political, but the truth is, with the exception of Don Plusquellic, the political class that runs Cuyahoga, Mahoning, Lorain, Trumbull and to a lesser extent Summit counties provides virtually zero economic optimism.

Cuyahoga County specifically has been destroyed by corrupt, inept and criminal politicians.

I believe this lack of local political leadership directly affects all three of these schools. This is where we draw students from!!

People go to or stay where there are jobs and opportunities.

Businesses provide jobs, but a dynamic, engaged, intelligent political system has to provide direction and vision.

We don’t have that folks!!

[K92]

Well Can't has a fashion school that's tops from what I hear

Absolutely. Complete with a purse museum.

[LosAngelesZipFan]

Good point on the political dimension that underscores the potential impact of a consolidation. Imagine if essentially all of NEO's state legislators were aligned behind the interests of a UA/Can't State-- call it the NEO University System (or whatever). That would be a potent political block that would be able to secure significantly more funding instead of it being all about Ohio State. Right now, that political support is totally fragmented.

In terms of programs, it is more of reason to combine I think. We have engineering and law and organization psych; Can't as architecture. We have world class polymer; they have world class liquid crystals. We could more readily suck in NEOCOM, so then we have a med school. Together, it is truly comprehensive tier 1 school. Apart, we aren't much different than Ball State.

And as I said, I really value UA in every way and appreciate my time and accounting degree from there. But I would choose something new, innovative, scaled, and world-class over more of the same. Last night's game only reinforced that to me....*sigh*

I loved Dr P's line of "Dream, Dare, Do" a few years back. I think we need to embrace, and demand, something new or nothing will ever change.

[zen]

In the vane of the regional politics, after an administrative consolidation occurs with local univerisites, what is to stop politicians in Cleveland (for example) from saying "hay, this isn't an Akron instutition, and it doesn't belong to Can't, or Youngstown, or Cleveland, but let's move the offices and the decision making to Cleveland because.... blah blah blah we're great because we think we are great and we have national sports teams and TV studios blah blah blah. OR, as a coup d'etat for Columbus politicians to eliminate regional leadership and put it under the OSU umbrella. In fact, how do we know that this isn't a part of a greater long term plan to do just that? Who was that congressman from a few years ago who wanted to strip all the local universities of their Identity because they were harming Ohio State's dominance in the state? Did these guys just go clandestine and create a secret 5 phase plan to neuter Akron and Can't. We thumped the idea when it was a huge shit sandwich, so they decided to regroup and to break it off into bite sized chunks and not inform anyone of the bites to come.

If there is one football team, where do they play? Infocision one week, and Dix stadium the next? How does that cut down on operational expenses. I submit that it makes things worse. One team, multiple locations? How is that good. The obvious answer is that you play in one place. Someone loses their venue.

This smells

[LosAngelesZipFan]

Avoiding that Cleveland trap is why it should start with UA-Can't State. Start there, create a center of gravity, and then it will be much more difficult to uproot and relocate to Cleveland if/when CSU get folded in.

I do think there is an inevitability element here-- the current model isn't really sustainable and definitely isn't ideal in terms of serving the area. And clearly it is very difficult for schools with this level of support and scale to really compete at the next level up. Because of the proximity of these two schools, I don't think either will ever be able to really ascend. It would be hard if all of NEO was united behind 1 school. Currently there 4 schools competing for this base, all with OSU hanging over their heads. Impossible.

In terms of where they play, I think eventually most of that happens in Akron because that is where the most economic impact can happen but perhaps for a time it goes back and forth between campuses.

What is going to really suck is when, in the absence of this consolidation happening proactively with our interests in mind, this happens by legislative fiat. That came close to happening a few years back--UA was about to be folded into, and under, CSU for gods sake. Past is prologue. It was a warning. The next economic downturn will force this consolidation, and that will not be good for Akron, I predict. We should act boldly now, create a "big shoulder" university that can really compete at the next level, and that UA and Can't State alums can proudly feel a part of.

[Balsy]

Name a college they have better than what we have in the following areas. I'm not talking about outside perception. I'm talking actual faculty, research and quality of graduates.

Education

Can't's Education College is better than Akron's (I'm saying that as a graduate of the College of Education)...It's more organized, has better faculty, actually has a dean in charge, UA still has an interim dean in charge of the department. Can't's Geology Department I'd rank higher than ours on research opportunities (I say that as a secondary graduate of the College of Arts and Sciences, with a geology degree). Though everything else I agree with you 100%.

Bliss Institute is PHENOMENAL.