Good News on Stadium

[K-Roo]

Soccer stadium financing on life support....Link

[Ryno aka Menace]

And this is good news how? Just curious do alot of people agree that a new soccer stadium will effect the universities plans to build an oncampus stadium. I honestly think that even if we have unsuccessful seasons the university will build a stadium. I think success will only dictate stadium capacity. If we have another mediocre to poor season - a 25K stadium sounds just right. If we have the kind of season that we should 9 and 3 or better then the stadium should be around 35 - 42K. and of course all able to expand to more.

[johnnyzip84]

I suspect that this is more like "neutral" news. Maybe it's a slight plus in that the whole notrthern Summit County soccer stadium/business development plan could be thought of as potential competition to UA's and other's plans for a stadium/shopping/residential development in areas like Spicer town.On another note, I am as big of a Zip fan (anatic) as any, but I have to say that if any of you actually think that a FB stadium with a seating capacity larger than 30K is in the works, I think you are dreaming. Yes, I do think it will be built and it will be successful in bringing more fans, students in particular, to games. But an INITIAL capacity of 35-42K just isn't realistic in any way, shape, or form. That's just my opinion. What would be wrong with something like the Glass Bowl, only an updated version?

[skip-zip]

I've commented enough on this subject already, so I will spare everyone.But, now that I have seen this new article, I have one question....Does anyone think that any smoker in Summit County is willing to pay 30 cents more per pack to fund an indoor SOCCER stadium????????

[bobbyake]

smokers wont have a choice if it's voted for by the people. You can buy them in another county and save .30 or you can cut back on how much you smoke if it's a problem. If neither of those satisfy you, you can always dip.

[K-Roo]

Just saying there's probably only so much money out there for stadiums... If the soccer stadium is a "GO", then maybe some of the corporate sponsorship money dries up... or maybe soccer isn't a threat... I'd just rather have less competition for the $$$.

[zip81]

I suspect that this is more like "neutral" news. Maybe it's a slight plus in that the whole notrthern Summit County soccer stadium/business development plan could be thought of as potential competition to UA's and other's plans for a stadium/shopping/residential development in areas like Spicer town.On another note, I am as big of a Zip fan (anatic) as any, but I have to say that if any of you actually think that a FB stadium with a seating capacity larger than 30K is in the works, I think you are dreaming. Yes, I do think it will be built and it will be successful in bringing more fans, students in particular, to games. But an INITIAL capacity of 35-42K just isn't realistic in any way, shape, or form. That's just my opinion. What would be wrong with something like the Glass Bowl, only an updated version?

I agree. 30K seems about right.However, should the earth quake and he!! freezes over, and Akron wins 5 straight MAC championships and we need a bigger stadium...I would do what they did to Canal Park...build it with the potential to make it bigger.But for now...30k is about right.

[skip-zip]

Bobbyake. I know. The people (smokers and non-smokers) will still need to vote on it. But let me correct you on one item. When Cuyahoga County initiated a cigarette tax, I believe that applied to ANY tobacco product. K-Roo. I agree with you. I don't care that the people at Akron are claiming that the Soccer stadium has no impact on our stadium. If both projects need any kind of private support, and the soccer stadium is built first, it would HAVE to impact our ability to get private support.

[Ryno aka Menace]

Bobbyake. I know. The people (smokers and non-smokers) will still need to vote on it. But let me correct you on one item. When Cuyahoga County initiated a cigarette tax, I believe that applied to ANY tobacco product. K-Roo. I agree with you. I don't care that the people at Akron are claiming that the Soccer stadium has no impact on our stadium. If both projects need any kind of private support, and the soccer stadium is built first, it would HAVE to impact our ability to get private support.

I agree....a little. I understand where you are coming from, and you may know more about this than me but. I think this is only an issue if it is built within the same fiscal year. Most companies have funds set aside for donations etc, it's a tax write off. People nowadays donate if they feel the need is just. Tell me if I am wrong but I don't see a company that has a chance to advertise their product or logo on a newly built on campus stadium. Not because I already gave to the soccer stadium so I am not going to donate to the university

[johnnyzip84]

However, should the earth quake and he!! freezes over, and Akron wins 5 straight MAC championships and we need a bigger stadium...I would do what they did to Canal Park...build it with the potential to make it bigger.

I agree wholeheartedly, Zip81, in thinking ahead and having a continency for a relatively easy (and inexpensive) expansion. I just don't think anything over 30K can fly up front. I have to tell you, I absolutely CAN'T WAIT until we all get to actually sit down and watch a game in the facility when it's finally here! GO ZIPS!!!!

[RowdyZip]

Heard on WKDD news on the way to work this morning that Wolstein was attempting to push funding legislation through the Ohio senate before they break for holiday next week. Is it possible that this could be pushed through without a vote?

[skip-zip]

RowdyZip...I think the Ohio legislature would just be approving of the proposal being placed on the ballot sometime next year.Ryno... That is true that if we ask for private funds in a different year than the soccer stadium, then companies could have a new budget to work with that year. But I would still be skeptical about whether they would allocate funds twice, to two different sports facilities, in the same county.I REALLY HOPE that I am wrong. We need a stadium badly. I just wonder how private companies will react to being asked for money for two large sports facilities in Summit County. Again, as I've said before, I really hope that everyone eventually sees that the logical answer is to build a new Akron football stadium, and allow a soccer team to use it. I just don't see a 25,000 seat indoor soccer stadium being a very good idea.

[74ZIP]

the ciggy tax CAN go through WITHOUT going to the ballot...why do think that wolstein et al want to go that direction?...cuz they are worried about people like us who WILL NOT vote for it...cuz a soccer stadium/team is stupid..but they are waving the promise of shopping centers etc under the noses of the local yokels to get them to buy it...but w/o the sucker stadium ALL else is off...my suggestion...contact the area state reps and senators....Kevin Coughlin...John Widdowfield...Kim Zurz...they are getting sucked in on this....tell them Uof A has contributed a hell of a lot more to this community since 1870 than the wolsteins or any politician...do it!!!

[Captain Kangaroo]

What's going into this shopping plaza...a Kohls...Walmart...Target...Lowes...Applebee's...? That would be great for the Macedonia area. There's nothing like it for miles...well maybe feet.

[RowdyZip]

What's going into this shopping plaza...a Kohls...Walmart...Target...Lowes...Applebee's...? That would be great for the Macedonia area. There's nothing like it for miles...well maybe feet.

Yeah, as someone who commutes to said plaza feet away (target), I am doubly against this abomination. The last thing I want it to have to drive through that mess with the possibility of having to deal with a stadium crowd of over 1,500 people (we all know that's about all they'd draw). Hopefully our state legislature is intelligent enough to realize the value in an urban center to one of the state's largest universities. Oh wait, this is the same state legislature that has deprived funding of higher education so badly over the last 8 years that tuition has risen about 60%. Hmmmm...well I guess we can all just hope...

[mcperp]

Private donations have little to no correlation between the two projects. The retail/commercial portion of the soccer stadium will be funded by business capital where a return on investment is expected. There's no philanthropic intent at all, whereas the Zips new stadium (which hopefully will be about 30k in capacity) would be getting its funding from entirely different pools of money.The cigarette tax is totally derivative and is a complete dinosaur. I don't know if I were a bond lender that I would stake 30 years of payback on a habit that gets squeezed more and more each year (passage of non-smoking law this November). It's a sucker bet. If the Wolstein group wants us to believe that the presence of a soccer stadium will make families more likely to head to Chili's for babyback ribs, then it's a completely disingenuous argument. If he's so confident about the project then build the stadium with your own funds, at your own risk, not the sad sack smokers. Will the presence of a soccer team in Ohio draw even more than cursory interest? Very unlikely, designer sports such as indoor soccer, world team tennis, women's pro hoops and even NHL hockey have folded more times than my brother in law at our weekly poker games.The Zips new stadium by contrast will draw donations from corporations and individuals with the reward being a mixture of personal investment and perhaps some corporate benefits (naming rights, preferred vendor, etc.). The other bulk of the Zips stadium will require a great deal of political acumen in getting legislators to open up the state capital project fund account. The JAR, though short-sighted in design is an example of the state picking up the vast majority of the cost.If the soccer stadium goes through you're talking about 16 home dates vs. 5-6 for a new football field each year. Anecdotally, there likely won't be too many fans agonizing over whether to go see the Cleveland Ciggy's soccer team or attend a Zips game, they'll do one or the other if the games are concurrent and the resultant "lost crowd" will probably be a wash anyways.

[skip-zip]

74Zip...Thanks for the info. WOW...that's scary that they can get something pushed through the state that fast.Anyone who thinks this soccer facility will ever be more than 10% full is crazy. Wohlstein is certainly selling the "benefits of the entire project" as a way to get this ego-gratifying stadium built.Rowdy. I think your prediction of attendance might be on the HIGH side. Once everyone visits the stadium one time (for the novelty of it) I predict that the Zips Women's Soccer Team will be drawing better than Wohlstein's pro team.This is just such an awful idea. And a really poor use of public funds. This reminds me of an idea that a buddy of mine had several years ago. Put a dome on the Rubber Bowl.....and we can call it the Con-Dome.

[zip81]

the ciggy tax CAN go through WITHOUT going to the ballot...why do think that wolstein et al want to go that direction?...cuz they are worried about people like us who WILL NOT vote for it...cuz a soccer stadium/team is stupid..but they are waving the promise of shopping centers etc under the noses of the local yokels to get them to buy it...but w/o the sucker stadium ALL else is off...my suggestion...contact the area state reps and senators....Kevin Coughlin...John Widdowfield...Kim Zurz...they are getting sucked in on this....tell them Uof A has contributed a hell of a lot more to this community since 1870 than the wolsteins or any politician...do it!!!

Yes, it is possible for the cig tax to be passed without putting it on the ballot.But there is no way in H E double hockey sticks that any politician would do that.It would be political suicide.

[Ryno aka Menace]

F.Y.I. I live in Columbus and not to long ago Columbus Crew members were going door to door trying to sell discounted ticket packages in an effort to get more fans to come to the games.During the 2005 season the Crew experienced their second worst average attendance since 1996 due to a poor season record.The team has three major supporters' groups: Legion 04, the V-Army, and Fort Knox.Their average attendance * 1996: 18,950 * 1997: 15,043 * 1998: 12,275 * 1999: 17,696 * 2000: 15,451 * 2001: 17,551 * 2002: 17,429 * 2003: 16,250/Missed Playoffs * 2004: 16,872/15,224 * 2005: 12,916/Missed Playoffs * 2006: 13,294/Missed Playoffs * All-Time: 16,344And the Macedonia soccer team wants a stadium how big?Columbus has a population much larger than Macedonia, what the hell do ya think is going to be the attending amount of people there?!

[zen]

Columbus has a population much larger than Macedonia,

hahahaha! The logic people use amazes me sometimes.AsIf Macedonia was an island isolated in Lake Erie or something!Okay, Macedonia is between two cities. But, perhaps unlike Columbus, those cities themselves (while the densest population) are rarely the prime ticket buyers for pro sporting events. Go to any Cavs, Indians, or Browns game, and you will find suburbanites in the seats. This phenomenon might be even more exxagerated for soccer. So, if you move out into suburbia, you actually get closer to your market. Macedonia is between TWO cities, but in the prime market for both.

[Ryno aka Menace]

Columbus has a population much larger than Macedonia,

hahahaha! The logic people use amazes me sometimes.AsIf Macedonia was an island isolated in Lake Erie or something!Okay, Macedonia is between two cities. But, perhaps unlike Columbus, those cities themselves (while the densest population) are rarely the prime ticket buyers for pro sporting events. Go to any Cavs, Indians, or Browns game, and you will find suburbanites in the seats. This phenomenon might be even more exxagerated for soccer. So, if you move out into suburbia, you actually get closer to your market. Macedonia is between TWO cities, but in the prime market for both.

Ahhhh! Now I see said the blindman with the deaf dog!! Boy now i feel stoopid!!

[FearTheRoo]

Zen, I agree. the shopping promises to be more like the outdoor specialty and higher end shops and restaurants like up in Beachwood. They don't make mention of large department stores as anchors.Also, I really don't see the funding drasrtically crossing paths. The University is assumed to be going the route of private donations and corporate financing. I am sure they are also looking at the sale of muni bonds....all of which don't necessary financially burden the public. Plus, they can't realiztically expect to tax a public and get support from a public who doesn't even come the games!

[zip81]

F.Y.I. I live in Columbus and not to long ago Columbus Crew members were going door to door  trying to sell discounted ticket packages in an effort to get more fans to come to the games.During the 2005 season the Crew experienced their second worst average attendance since 1996 due to a poor season record.The team has three major supporters' groups: Legion 04, the V-Army, and Fort Knox.Their average attendance    * 1996: 18,950    * 1997: 15,043    * 1998: 12,275    * 1999: 17,696    * 2000: 15,451    * 2001: 17,551    * 2002: 17,429    * 2003: 16,250/Missed Playoffs    * 2004: 16,872/15,224    * 2005: 12,916/Missed Playoffs    * 2006: 13,294/Missed Playoffs    * All-Time: 16,344And the Macedonia soccer team wants a stadium how big?Columbus has a population much larger than Macedonia, what the hell do ya think is going to be the attending amount of people there?!

There is no comparing Columbus with this situation. It is just too different.The precident has already been set.Soccer will not draw in NE Ohio.We have the defunct teams to prove it..teams that were located in the city and the suburbs.This stadium is a waste of money.I hope it dies a quick one.

[Z.I.P.]

[The precident has already been set.Soccer will not draw in NE Ohio.We have the defunct teams to prove it..teams that were located in the city and the suburbs.This stadium is a waste of money.I hope it dies a quick one.

I would really love for you to explain what on Earth you are talking about that would show you have a clue what you are talking about.NE Ohio has not HAD a professional outdoor soccer team since the Cleveland Cobras in the 1970s, and has NEVER had a world class club (i.e. MLS).Good luck if you accept your mission.

[zip81]

[The precident has already been set.Soccer will not draw in NE Ohio.We have the defunct teams to prove it..teams that were located in the city and the suburbs.This stadium is a waste of money.I hope it dies a quick one.

I would really love for you to explain what on Earth you are talking about that would show you have a clue what you are talking about.NE Ohio has not HAD a professional outdoor soccer team since the Cleveland Cobras in the 1970s, and has NEVER had a world class club (i.e. MLS).Good luck if you accept your mission.

Oh, excuse me. You are right. If we have an outdoor team, that will certainly draw thousands and thousands of fans each home game.... It doesn't matter..indoor or outdoor...professional soccer will not draw here.Too bad I had to explain that...you are nitpicking.Do you really think it makes a difference if the soccer is played indoor or outdoor as to whether it will draw fans?If you believe there is a difference then YOU are the clueless one and really reached to insult someone.