More Football Stadium Info

[K-Roo]

Budget: $54,625,000 UA is looking to hire a "Football Stadium Construction Manager" http://www3.uakron.edu/bids/conbidresults.htmLast column at the bottom....

[zen]

Thing is gonna get rolling, hopefully soon, but I haven't heard about anything out for bid in terms of the various construciton contract/subcontract stuff yet. I guess you need a project manager first.

[zip81]

Construction to begin March '08.Completed in time for '09 season.I like that.Please, Please make the stadium a complete bowl!!!Please, Please. We don't want it to look like that high school stadium in Youngstown.

[GP1]

UA is looking to hire a "Football Stadium Construction Manager"

Yikes! Construction managers are the worst thing to happen to the building industry. Most get paid cash bonuses for "value engineering" projects. Value engineering is the process of destroying a well designed project in the name of saving money. In the United States, we have a unique way of improving a product until it no longer works.....that's "value engineering". The University has taken the first step in destroying the new stadium and the ground isn't even broken yet on the site.

[zen]

GP1, it depends on the industry and the project.If your specificiations are ..... well....... specific, and well written, the construction manager and subcontractors can't skirt them.Also, the construction manger has to answer to the owner and/or architect, so it's really up to them how much "value engineering" occurs.

[GoZips88]

If the future football schedule holds true, Kentucky will help open the new stadium on September 12, 2009. Nice to see the baby steps happening!

[ziptrumpet87]

future football schedule

don't you just love how they use the black text on black background for the years?

[Kangaroo Craig]

The critical path estimates predict that the design should be completed by June 15th of this year. That means in just a little over five months we should know what this thing looks like. To reiterate what Zip81 said: Please do not make it look like a glorified high school stadium! The Zips are a major D1 school. Our facilities need to reflect that! What scares me is that $54M is not a very much of a budget for this sort of a project. They got it right with the field house. That at least gives us some hope on this one.

[zen]

I too fear that the 50 odd million sounds too cheap for a nice stadium, but consider the following:1) N.E.Ohio economy has been in recession relative to the rest of the country for years (if not decades) and thus, even with the presence of unions, a project of this nature could come in considerable cheaper than in many other places. Basically, there are a lot of construction companies and related industry that NEED to win contracts just to work. Bidding should be low. Maybe the estimates are hoping for this....?2) When do projects EVER come in below budget? It wouldn't suprise me if this one ends up having a final pricetag over 70M when it's done. This seems contradictory to point#1, but all I am saying is, you're comparing this estimate to the final cost of other projects. 3) Remember, just having newer facilities will be nice, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, having them right on campus will be a dream! I'm not saying that we should "settle". I just think, keep it in perspective. As long as they have pre-designed expandability, that is good enough for me.

[TXZipFan]

What scares me is that $54M is not a very much of a budget for this sort of a project. They got it right with the field house. That at least gives us some hope on this one.

UCF's Bright House Networks Stadium, which seats 45,000 is being built for 65 million and looks amazing... so if our budget is 54 million I think well be sitting pretty. GO ZIPS!!!

[seatea]

In case you have not received the call, HNTB has hired a Marketing firm to solicit feedback for the design of the stadium. I received that call a couple of days ago. They went through price-points for every facet of the stadium. Here was the breakdown. They gave me price points on every level except the regular seats, which seem to be firm.Reserved between the 40's - $500 donation plus ticket priceReserved between 20-40 - $300 donation plus ticket priceReserved between goal and 20 - $100 donation plus ticket priceNext was a club section, commitment of 3-5-10 years. Access to Club level restaurant/drink services. This would be on the sideline, top of lower seating bowl.Three price points, which they asked which I would be interested in.$1000/seat$750/seat$500/seat(This includes parking and ticket)Next was indoor club seating, commitment of 3-5-10 years. Access to Club level restaurant/drink services.$2500/seat$2000/seat$1500/seat(This includes parking and ticket)Next was outdoor Loge seats (described as opera box seating). Seats 4-8 people. 3-5-10 year commitment with outdoor TV access and drink rail. They asked me if I wanted to share the loge.$7500 for the Loge$5000 for the Loge$2500 for the Loge(Includes tickets and parking)Next was a private suite. This has a private entrance, restroom access for this level only, access to the private club, suite food and drink service, TV access. 3-5-10 commitment.Seats 12, 16 or 24.$25,000$20,000$15,000(Tickets and parking)They asked if I wanted an indoor or outdoor Suite. I had to wait until the end of the survey to tell them that I preferred an indoor/outdoor suite.At the lower of every price point I told them I was interested. The fallacy of the entire survey was that they never asked if I was willing to commit today. Of course I was interested in every level, as you math majors do the number crunching, you will find better deals in the outdoor loge with a group going in than in the regular seats between the forties.If they asked if I would commit today, it would be a different story. If everyone answers like I did, we may have a stadium full of suites, loges and only 1,000 seats for eveyone else!OH, general admission tickets were never discussed. I cannot determine if it would be a bowl or not.I hope you get the call!

[GP1]

GP1, it depends on the industry and the project.If your specificiations are ..... well....... specific, and well written, the construction manager and subcontractors can't skirt them.Also, the construction manger has to answer to the owner and/or architect, so it's really up to them how much "value engineering" occurs.

I can tell you that from years of working in the construction industry, well written specificaitons are skirted every day in the name of saving a few bucks and quality is destroyed every day because of it. "Quality is remembered long after price is forgotten." "The bitter taste of a poorly completed project lasts much longer than the temporary sweet taste of saving money."Construction managers work directly for the owner and are paid by the owner. Almost every large public project uses them now. UofA will be paying the company awarded this bid. I've always heard that the going rate for a CM saving money for a customer is about 10% of the savings so they have a huge interest in value engineering. Ten percent of $50 million is $5 million (much of which will have to go into paying for change orders). Ten percent of that is $500,000 and that's a huge incentive for the CM to value engineer. Being a public project, the successful bidder will probably bid at or below their costs and then make up the remainder in value engineering bonuses. The CM business is an absolute racket and if it wasn't for an even larger racket, lawyers, there would be no need for CMs.There are three ways to get a project.1. Good2. Fast 3. CheapThe trick is that only two can be achieved. Akron wants to build this stadium on the cheap, so getting it good and fast are the only two remaining options. If you want it cheap and fast, it probably isn't going to be good. If you want it cheap and good, it probably is going to take some time to police all of the illegal immigrants building the stadium so the work will be very slow. These are the realities of construction.When the plans and specifications for this project are released, those of us in the construction business should post regularly about what is being used to build our new stadium. I'd be interested to see what others in different fields think about the design and documents. Those of you not in construction can view them at the purchasing department or architects office at UofA. They are public documents and you have a right to see them. I'll even try to download them off of Dodge and get them to the moderators and maybe they can post them.

[zen]

If you have worked years in the construction industry, then you know that subcontractors can be held, legally, to uphold the aspects of the job specifications that they agreed to when they won the bid and accepted the job. Sure, there are some things, such as using cheap concrete, that may not be found right away, but for the most part, it is up to the owner and construction manager to make sure the job is beind done according to design. That is all I was getting at.If the owner takes takes on a the management philosophy that cutting corners is more important than getting a quality product, then you will get the results you fear. This, however, is not always how it works. I have seen plenty of jobs where contractors were required to complete re-do their work, at their own expense, because it did not meet specifications. This is why I say that well written specs are the key.

[eguins]

We don't want it to look like that high school stadium in Youngstown.

Watch it now, I can't help it we put more people in our "HS Stadium" every week then the Zips.Also can't help it that 21,000 seats and a 35+ loges aren't good enough for you guys.When you have a nicer stadium than us, then you can talk about this stadium stuff and YSU, but right now, YSU>AKRON>Can't State.

[Hilltopper]

We don't want it to look like that high school stadium in Youngstown.

Watch it now, I can't help it we put more people in our "HS Stadium" every week then the Zips.Also can't help it that 21,000 seats and a 35+ loges aren't good enough for you guys.When you have a nicer stadium than us, then you can talk about this stadium stuff and YSU, but right now, YSU>AKRON>Can't State.

Eguins, Isn't it time for you to go home? The street lights are on and I hear your mom calling.

[mcperp]

Has anyone heard anything about the source and status of funding? It would be hard to believe that the state will provide any capital outlay for a football stadium. This likely leaves bonds and/or private donations to pay for this project.

[Buckzip]

GPI is correct. I have been in both the new home, remodeling and commercial product supply business for 17 years.The plans and spec are drawn up. They will usually state certain brands or certain specs of product. However, after every line, there is an "or equivelant"What this means is that the construction managers will choose the lowest price every time. They are paid a price ot build the project. If they can build it for less than their original quote, they make more profit.As far as liability, "most" don't use garbage materials, they may use a decent product. but it isn't as attractive. Therefor everything looks cheaper.

[SouthernZip]

You guys are bummin' me out! Did we use a construction manager on either the field house or student center projects? If we did, then we should be okay because those facilities are top notch. If not, then I suppose our concerns are valid. Did the city of Akron use a contruction manager on the Canal Park project? Again, if so, then we shouldn't be too worried, because Canal Park is the most beautiful stadium in minor league baseball.But the U better NOT screw this up!!! This is far too important a project to be done half-@$$ed. In the current american culture, a U's football stadium is a (THE?) hallmark structure on campus. Thousands of non-student fans do not visit campus each week to sit in a science or arts building. But this simple and obvious fact encourages me. The U absolutely must realize this. Thus, they absolutely HAVE TO make this football stadium a gem of a facility. And if the U constructs to the same standards as other recent projects - the student center, field house, rec center, the new liberal arts facility, the new honors dorms - then I don't thind we have anything to be worried about.

[zip81]

You guys are bummin' me out! Did we use a construction manager on either the field house or student center projects? If we did, then we should be okay because those facilities are top notch. If not, then I suppose our concerns are valid. Did the city of Akron use a contruction manager on the Canal Park project? Again, if so, then we shouldn't be too worried, because Canal Park is the most beautiful stadium in minor league baseball.But the U better NOT screw this up!!! This is far too important a project to be done half-@$$ed. In the current american culture, a U's football stadium is a (THE?) hallmark structure on campus. Thousands of non-student fans do not visit campus each week to sit in a science or arts building. But this simple and obvious fact encourages me. The U absolutely must realize this. Thus, they absolutely HAVE TO make this football stadium a gem of a facility. And if the U constructs to the same standards as other recent projects - the student center, field house, rec center, the new liberal arts facility, the new honors dorms - then I don't thind we have anything to be worried about.

Good points and I hope you are right.

[zip81]

We don't want it to look like that high school stadium in Youngstown.

Watch it now, I can't help it we put more people in our "HS Stadium" every week then the Zips.Also can't help it that 21,000 seats and a 35+ loges aren't good enough for you guys.When you have a nicer stadium than us, then you can talk about this stadium stuff and YSU, but right now, YSU>AKRON>Can't State.

You always exaggerate your attendence and everything else about Yunztown State.You may think your stadium is the best. In reality, it is just OK. And for many years when you only had stands on one side of the field, it looked like a freaken joke.When I was going to Akron you guys played in a freaken high school stadium...what was it, Austintown Fitch? Yeah, real big time.If you think it is anything that another university should emulate for their new stadium, you are sorely mistaken.Yunztown's stadium is the last thing I want for our new stadium.

[zip81]

We don't want it to look like that high school stadium in Youngstown.

Watch it now, I can't help it we put more people in our "HS Stadium" every week then the Zips.Also can't help it that 21,000 seats and a 35+ loges aren't good enough for you guys.When you have a nicer stadium than us, then you can talk about this stadium stuff and YSU, but right now, YSU>AKRON>Can't State.

Eguins, Isn't it time for you to go home? The street lights are on and I hear your mom calling.

Truth is Hilltopper, he has no place to go.Have you been to his sorry site?There hasn't been a post on there since we kicked their arse on the court.And when they do post, it's the same 3 or 4 sorry people wallowing in their own misery.So, he comes over here to spew his bull.

[akronad]

Anything as big as this project calls for a constuction mgr.With Dr. Proenza at the helm, this campus has taken temendous strides and I don't think he would let anything like a new stadium be done 1/2 A**.Let's just the project going.As a Zip for many years, this is way overdue and the sooner the better.

[eguins]

Ya Zip 81....Because this is so bad. See those things at the top of the stadium. They are called LOGES. Every single one has a company inside of it. The row above that is called the Press Box. See how big that is. Also note how big that is.You guys have a nice looking stadium in the works, but it hasn't been built. If anything, your new one will look like a HS Stadium, because it will have 2 sides, like YSU. You won't have a bowl anymore, but that is no big deal.I still think a stadium like I-AA Montana's Washington-Grizzly Stadium would be perfect for you. 24,000 seats with loges.

[zip81]

As I said, just OK, but nothing I would want for us.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Will someone tell these Idiot YSU fans that we don't give a shit what they have to say. I don't care if by some freaking miracle they move to a BCS conference, go undefeated and win a National Championship. YSU will always suck. ALWAYS.Now go rob a liquor store or something. By the way, your football stadium looks like a glorified HS stadium. YSU High will always be a second rate program.