On Second Thought

[GoZips]

CANT ... 69 AKRON ... 67 clock: 00:08Think about that. Do not dwell on the scuffle, the childish behavior, the fans or anything else. Dwell on the fact that the supposedly superior, much higher RPI'dCant State was leading a home basketball game at home by TWO POINTS with eight seconds remaining in the game.Cant nearly lost a home game against an opponent that on paper was clearly inferior to their vaunted mega power house.What did the Zips do right? A freshman point guard still learning how to play at the college level commits turnover after turnover. His coach sticks with him. Not becausethere were no alternatives, but because this was the time under fire to grow the player. That growth can not occur in a forty point blow out. It can only occur inwithering fire. A glaring weakness the Zips have uncovered is the inability to defend the paint against teams running a double post (Cant, Ohio). This needs fixing now.The players played through a nasty mugging without the help of officials. In fact, the officials precipitated the mugging. Still the entire team took the pounding withoutlosing their "cool". It was a Cant player, Hambone I think, that lost his cool and started an altercation by forcibly shoving a Zip player who had hard fouled him.Now why did the Zip player hard foul? Consider that with 5.9 seconds remaining a hard foul was the only sure way to get the clock stopped immediately. A soft foulcould easily been ignored by the official in the interest of getting the clock to run out. The hard foul was the proper play. Hambone then started the altercationwith his push back. The official was responsible to end it right there. He failed to do so. The Akron coaching staff is just now starting to trust its own bench players. Jim Christian takes a much more trusting approach with his bench. Sadly, the Zips staffneeded to be at that point prior to this game. They were not. It needs fixed. Trust the bench. Play eleven deep.Over all the Zips who were picked to finish fourth are currently about third behind Cant and Ohio. Miami thus far has self destructed. If the Zips are to gain the topspot and guarantee at least an NIT bid they need to continue to grow. That means running the table the rest of the way. Weeks ago comments were made about Brett McKnight and Darryl Roberts possibly being impact players. Is there any doubt now? They both are.This team should only get better as the season progresses. A trip to the NCAA tournament is the lowest goal this team should work toward.That's my two cents. What's yours?

[GP1]

The Akron coaching staff is just now starting to trust its own bench players. Jim Christian takes a much more trusting approach with his bench. Sadly, the Zips staffneeded to be at that point prior to this game. They were not. It needs fixed. Trust the bench. Play eleven deep.

I don't see many games, but I keep hearing about depth. Depth is great until you have to use it. A full 11 man rotation in the first half is great. In the second half, rotating 11 is how a coach loses a game. If I had 11 good players, what would I do?I would use the first half to determine which 5-8 players out of that 11 are going to win the game for me, and they would be the only players to play in the final 15 minutes of the game. With 8 minutes to go, the same 5-6 would play unless we had to put guys in to foul late or one fouls out. Late in the game is not the time to rest players...it's the time to WIN the game with the guys who give you the best chance to win that day.My two cents based upon what I see really good teams do on TV.

[RootforRoo44]

I would have to say that is the best assessment of the game that anyone has put on here. I hope that this loss does light a fire in our players and get them on the level of play that we all know they can play at. They really are right on the edge of becoming a great Mid-Major team. Think Manhattan a few years ago, Can't State 8 years ago(?) or Cleveland State in the mid 80's. The Zips can be THAT team and storm the tournament given the chance. Let's hope they get it.

[Valpo Zip]

I like the game assessment. Everything in it is well thought.About the future, allow me to be the pessimistic one. Starting with the near future, everybody is saying that we will get can't on March 9. Maybe we will, but how about our trips to Athens and Oxford?We keep talking about our depth. That depth only shows against BG and NC A&T. When it counts, under pressure, we seem to only have one decent post player in J-wood and only one decent ball handler in Dials. Before we start thinking about being Manhattan and Can't and an elite midmajor, i am really worried about next year. Our two decent (under pressure) playersare graduating this year. KD does not recruit JC players to make an immediate difference. And we are not at the level where we can recruit immediate impact freshmen (Oden and Conley Jr.)If the Mcknights, Roberts, Bardo, and Conyers don't gain the necessary PT experience this year and step up, we are preparing for a 8-8 MAC record next season.I appologize for being so pessimistic, but this is how i see things when i try to look ahead for the future.

[skip-zip]

skhorbotly...that's a legitimate point. Not that many of us are thinking about next year quite yet, but still a good thing to think about.Of course, we all thought that losing Romeo and Dru would hurt us a bit. But, losing the other 3 major pieces of the nucleus (Wood, Dials, and Middleton) will likely truly put us into a rebuilding state. These 5 guys together have been a major part of the last few seasons, and we're seeing very little experience developing behind them up to this point, in my opinion. With the exception of Nate, does anyone really strike you as a guy that has the experience to become a consistent starter, give us 30 minutes a game, and become a major contributor by November?I must admit...I'm a little scared.

[ziptrumpet87]

I think we'll see a lot of 3-guard sets next year if no one steps up in the 4-5 spots. I think we'll be OK at G (but then I thought replacing Romeo would be easier than Dru).

[Zip Watcher]

Not scared at all .. not in the least. Intrigued, but not scared.Do I think we're going to go 14-2 in the conference next year? Probably not .. but we didn't last year, and probably won't this year. I also don't see us going 8-8 .. I split the difference and see 11-5.It might be a step back year, but I don't see it as a complete rebuilding job. More of a reload.Consider that 4 returning players are averaging over 12 minutes a game .. with 2 others (Roberts / Bardo) approaching 10 minutes / game. B. McKnight will see much more time in the next 6 games and may force his way into the rotation (now 4 mpg). We will have returning:1 forward who has pretty much started for 3 years (Linhart).1 swing man who has been an integral defender for a year and a half (Conyers)1 post player who is gradually getting more confident & increased minutes (C. McKnight).1 guard who's averaging about 20 minutes a game and is already one of our better shooters (McNees)I expect that Roberts will end up averaging about 15-20 mpg from here on out, so that will give us 2 guards with legitimate minutes during a contending season under their belt. Bardo will probably not get to 10 minutes, but he'll have been in the program 2 years. B. McKnight will be in the rotation, so I think that he'll end up with Roberts and the other 4 guys above by the end of the year.So that will be 6 guys coming back (7 if you count Mike) that will have played what I consider real minutes on a conference contending team. They're not just playing mop-up time .. they're in the rotations long before games are out of reach. 2 of the guys (JC & NL) are the key defenders on the team NOW .. and they'll be back. One of the guys has become a key backcourt handler in the biggest games (McNees .. even with the Can't State game), and this is year 1 for him. The real key will be whether or not Roberts & BMcK force themselves into the equation this season.Now if you consider that KD likes an 8 or 9 man rotation, that leaves 2 spots for incoming guys to fill and contribute in. From position breakdown:5 - Probably going to be CMcKnight, with Bardo4 - B. McKnight / Conyers some minutes here.3 - Linhart / Conyers2 - McNees (I think he moves in to Dial's role next season)1 - RobertsIncoming guys need to shore up the backcourt and give a little scoring depth at the 4 spot.Who's coming in next year:PG - Steward will have a year in the system & all that potential.PG - Hitchins is on his way to 1st team all stateCG - Sullivan seems to be a tweener .. maybe more of a pointSG - Brooks has played a solid year of mid-major ball and will have a year in the systemSG/SF - McClanahan - big shooting guard, maybe SF?F - Cvetinovic - 6-7 seems to be scoring and rebounding well.C - Parrish - depth at the 5 if he's ready.C - Swiech - heavily recruited .. look for more body change, and a good understanding of the systemNo one thinks that the Guards coming in are going to be Nick Dials or Rashon Brown on day 1 .. that's nonsense. But ask yourself if KD will get 3 contributors (15+ minutes/game) out of the above list of 8 "newcomers" to the active roster. Without ANY of the new guys .. the Zips go 8-8 .. but add in 1 point guard and maybe a shooting swing man to the equation & it might be a different story.I do think the offensive flow might look different w/o Wood. The challenge will be to find the successful rotations without trying to force a guy to play Wood's game. Maybe the inside out game will just look a little different with the McKnights facing up on their man? So we might not be as strong next year inside, but we'll also be a little bit quicker at the perimeter next season .. so we press more and look for a little less of the isolation half-court set success we're having this season.My feeling is that the early season may be rocky .. and that the upside is high.The beauty of it all is that the talent is in good hands. And one other thing .. should next year's team end up near or at the top of the conference with 12 or 13 guys in their 1st / 2nd years .. it's on .. and the ZIps will be getting some separation from the conference.First things first though .. 17 or so games left with this team.

[skip-zip]

I really wish I could be as optimistic as you Zip Watcher, but here is why I am scared that we're about the have a down year. And hopefully it is just one year.Look at it this way....We haven't had this problem for awhile. Dru and Romeo because regular starters, playing significant minute, very early in their careers. So did Wood and Dials. And so did Ced and Nate. So, we always had guys coming back that we knew would be big parts of the team the following year. But, if I ask the question to myself that I asked above.......Who appears to be prepared, right now, to become a consistent starter by November, give us 30 minutes a game, and become a big contributor? I'm only able to put Nate into that category. Sure, there is still a half of a season remaining. But, as the games get more critical down the stretch, the starters will be leaned on more and more. And rightfully so, since our goal will be to win games now. So, I think it's very likely that the development of the younger players will become a lesser and lesser part of these upcoming games. This is why I ask myself....besides Nate, who is showing, right now, that they are ready to be full-timers, and major contributors by November of thise year? And I am struggling to put more than one guy in that category right now.

[Zip Watcher]

Good thoughts skip .. I think I understand your perspective a bit better.First off, I'm an engineer .. it's in my nature to see the solution first .. so keep that in mind.

But, if I ask the question to myself that I asked above.......Who appears to be prepared, right now, to become a consistent starter by November, give us 30 minutes a game, and become a big contributor? I'm only able to put Nate into that category.

A couple of thoughts here:- I do think McNees will be ready to do that at the 2-guard spot .. I think he's going to transition to Dial's role .. and give us a shooter from the SG spot that can handle the ball. By your description above re: Travis/Joyce .. Steve is playing those types of minutes now. As freshman, Travis and Joyce only played about 24mpg, per the stats archive at GoZips .... Dot Com.- I also think that CMcKnight will be there. Can't prove it .. but that's what I think.- Conyers is there now .. his contributions are on the defensive end. Having a lockdown defender is a big contribution. He needs to get more comfortable in the offense .. but we're a defense first team, and he's already a solid contributor there.- I think the dynamic of the roster & rotations will change, where we're not looking to have guys log 30-35 minutes. Right now, only Wood and Dials are @ 30mpg .. and barely. So I think that the concept is that we get a little quicker .. press a little more .. and look to have 9 guys playing 20+ minutes, instead of having 3 play 30ish.Lastly, I don't think it will happen by November .. nor does it need to. November / December are for gearing up for the conference run. So there WILL be some rotation uncertainty in Puerto Rico (fingers crossed here) .. but it's January & February that matter .. and by then, I think we'll have figured out who's ready.Again .. I think it's a step back, reload thing. I certainly don't see the Zips coming out of the gate 20-0 (regardless of the schedule). By the end of the year .. they ought to be pretty good.

[Let'sGoZips94]

This is why I ask myself....besides Nate, who is showing, right now, that they are ready to be full-timers, and major contributors by November of thise year? And I am struggling to put more than one guy in that category right now.

I think you're right with Nate, but I think there are some other players that might be ready. Brett McKnight is one of them same with Chris, they just gotta play more to really show something. Steve McNeese is ready for sure. I also think Roberts looks pretty good and calm. But we are going to struggle if nobody else steps up.

[skip-zip]

Zip Watcher and lilroodude....nice comments.We know Nate is "there". I agree that Jimmy might also be "there", except that I'm not sure he will ever become a "scorer". Which leaves us hoping that McNees continues to mature...quickly...and the McKnight brothers and Roberts are poised to do more, once given more minutes. Beyond that, the guys that we will really need to come along quickly would be guys like Steward, Bardo and Sweich. But I don't see Bardo getting much of an increase in minutes as conference play really starts to heat up. And Sweich and Steward are going to have to pretty much develop on their own during the off season. I'm just not real confident that all of the pieces will fall into place quickly enough for us to come out of the gate next year and have another successful season.

[Valpo Zip]

Zip Watcher, i am an engineer too but i wish i could agree with you IMHO, Nate is our only player who is currently "there" and even Nate, is a role player and not someone who can create his own shot or be a "go-to" guy.McNeese seems to be on the right track to be "there" at the beginning of next year. Other than that, we have projects that may work or may not.Conyers can be the best defender in the NCAA, but that is only half of the game, and is simply not enough; especially from a player that KD calls "his best recruit ever" :blink: I still haven't seen enogh of Brett McKnight, but from what i've seen so far, he seems more like a 3 player than a 4 or a 5 which leave us without any reliable options at the post. Don't get me wrong, Sweich and Bardo appear to be great guys but they lack the experience and you cannot expect them to win you the MAC as soon as they get out there.However, being a solution finder (just like you zip watcher), here is what i suggest. Bardo, the 2 McKnights and Roberts should play every possible minute for the rest of this year. We are going to play a few (RPI killer) games. Let's get something good out of them and give PT experience to our underclassmen. I honestly see no advantage what so ever in having Quade score 22 points against BG when Mcknight and Bardo are riding the bench. Quade is in his 4th year for God's sake and he still fold like a paper in tough games. Look at his stats in the 2 games when we needed him: pt Ass Reb St To MinOhio: 0 0 0 0 0 16Can't: 0 0 0 0 2 10He did not give us a better chance to win those games, so we might as well give those 26 minutes to Bardo.

[Zipsrifle]

First off, I'm an engineer .. it's in my nature to see the solution first .. so keep that in mind

Zip Watcher, i am an engineer too but i wish i could agree with you

Ok, there's only one way to settle this..... You guys will battle tomorrow, in the Machine Shop in the bowels of ASEC. Bring your calculators (or slide rule), and we'll settle this once and for all!

[Valpo Zip]

First off, I'm an engineer .. it's in my nature to see the solution first .. so keep that in mind

Zip Watcher, i am an engineer too but i wish i could agree with you

Ok, there's only one way to settle this..... You guys will battle tomorrow, in the Machine Shop in the bowels of ASEC. Bring your calculators (or slide rule), and we'll settle this once and for all!

LMAO

[GoZips]

After reading everyone's concerns or lack of them I realize that no one has mentioned the one dynamic of the game that KD has stressed for the future.Notice that KD has recruited quick guards. Roberts, Steward and Brooks are on board. Hutchens is coming. Light come on? Okay, KD has repeatedlymentioned that he wants a full court pressure defense. This crew along with McNees and Sullivan given him six guards to rotate. Linhart, CMac and Jimmy givehim the quick big men to help in half court traps. I look for KD to finally get the talent and depth to run a full time, full court pressure defense. Watch a couple of Bruce Pearl's Tennessee games. That will clear thecloudy picture. Tennessee is so talented that they run a half dozen different inbounding defenses. Drives opponents mad.Another dynamic is post play. Has anyone noticed that Brett McK looks a lot like J-Wood? BMac can play the post or the four spot. He is like having a young J-Woodthat can consistently shoot the three ball. I have to admit that at this stage Bardo has been a bust. He just is not tough enough. Hopefully Swiech has some onions.We do need a five man that can bust the opposition's back. CMac is not him; he's a four man. Under sized height wise, BMac looks like he can be the man. I thinkBMac already has the onions, so to speak, to be strong under the basket. Let us see what Swiech can do. Actually, we will often need a four and a five on the floor together that can work together to protect the blocks. Hambone and Scott along with Tillman and Williams, showed us the wayThe coaching staff is hot after tall, tall, tall, Zeke Marshall because he is tough in the blocks. Personally, I believe that Reggie Keely is a better fit for a Zips style team.But, the chances of getting him are a lot slimmer.Let us not over look Andy Parish. I have met this kid. He is HUGE. First comment out of my mouth was that he was J-Wood on steroids. He plays tough. We need that.Cvetinovic will be Linhart's understudy.

[GP1]

First off, I'm an engineer .. it's in my nature to see the solution first .. so keep that in mind

Zip Watcher, i am an engineer too but i wish i could agree with you

Ok, there's only one way to settle this..... You guys will battle tomorrow, in the Machine Shop in the bowels of ASEC. Bring your calculators (or slide rule), and we'll settle this once and for all!

I'm in sales. When you guys get done with that, I need all of you to come back and design a solution to a product I need that will be impossible to design and build in a cost effective manner for the customer. Now hurry up with your problem solving and come back quickly.

[PizzaBreath]

Well personally, I think talking about next year in the middle of this season is just idiotic, but after reading I couldn't help myself but to throw in my thoughts.One thing I can agree with is the idea that replacing Wood will be tough, just for the fact that we have no real five man behind him who can score. Sure Bardo comes in and gives some good minutes, but he's more of a defensive player. Maybe red-shirted Steve Sweich can come in and fill them shoes, but thats a lot to ask for out of a freshman.Now, I think Chris McKnight got two more strong seasons left in front of him. He came and shot well against Can't which was great to see in my eyes. I think Chris is really going to step it up and become a scoring threat for the Zips. Chris is more of a 4 man then a five as we know. Well talking about Chris, I really like what I've seen out of Brett McKnight. He's big like a post man but he shoots like a guard. I think next year Brett can really give us some solid minutes off the bench. What can't I say about Nate Linhart? The kid does it all out there. Theres nothing else for me to say because I know he'll step it up even more next season.Jimmy Conyers has also showed a lot of promise this year. On top of being an excellent defender, the kid can really shoot, when he actually decides he wants to. Now with the guard positions. At this point in the season it seems fairly obvious that next year the starters should be McNees and Roberts. Both of them have gave us great minutes. What I don't understand at all that you guys have said, is the idea that McNees would be the 2 and not run the point? Have you guys watched games this season? Every time McNees is in the game, he's dribbling the ball down the court. No matter if he's in there with Dials, Middleton or Roberts, McNees brings the ball up. I don't see that changing. Roberts really surprised me this season and I think next year him and McNees will be fine.So here is my line up next season....1- McNees2- Roberts3- Linhart4- Conyers5- Chris McKnightOff the Bench You got returning... Brett McKnightBardoThen you know you are going to have some guys step up who are freshman or transfers, We will just have to see who they are. More then likely Stewart and Sweich will be seeing minutes.As we know, Coach D subs a good amount so does it really really matter who starts? I think this five has the most experience and would deserve to start. But I think the Zips will be fine next year, I'm not worried.

[skip-zip]

GoZips...thanks for the insight on our transition to a guard-oriented pressure defense team. Maybe that is the direction that we are going, and it would be fun to watch.However, having some coaching my my blood, I disagree with you that BMac is going to be a Jeremiah-type post player. Maybe he looks like him, physically, but it's obvious that he has played his basketball facing the basket. And that's a very tough transition for a player to make at any level. So, as far as next year is concerned, I think the continued development of Bardo and CMac is probably our best shot at having some guys with low post expertise. PizzaBreath...I think that's likely our starting lineup at the beginning of next season. And I do agree with you that Steve. M. is clearly being groomed as a point guard.

[zipfan 81]

So you guys are saying Ronnie Steward is definitely out as point? I dont agree with you, sorry....

[Zip Watcher]

So you guys are saying Ronnie Steward is definitely out as point? I dont agree with you, sorry....

Who's saying that? I think there's some feeling he will miss this season .. but he seems the heir apparent at the point for the next few years.Do tell if you've got some knowledge that he may yet play this season. He's not yet been listed as a redshirt.