What does it say about Akron Basketball if....

[Big Zip]

In Gary Waters second year at Cleveland State he takes them to the dance by beating the No. 10 team in the country for the second time this year. I didn't agree with Keith's decision to play Goddard and Milum and believe the momentum loss lead to the one-sided affair, but if not this team this year or last year's team last year -- then when does Akron go? I can't imagine next year being another big year for the Zips -- 20 wins next year will be a great feat. Is is possible we're just snake bitten?

[skip-zip]

Good Question Big Zip....Remember, other than the handful of years that we played Independent, we've probably had about 25 opportunities now to win conference tournaments, and have come up empty (besided 1986, of course). Beyond that, we've had quite a few 20+ win seasons, indluding a couple when Huggins had us playing Independent, and have gotten snubbed.If last year's ending didn't make us feel like we have bad luck, nothing will. And you know I am one of the biggest proponents on here when it comes to doing some serious upgrading to the OOC schedule to give us another way to get in every year. If not, I am willing to consider someone's suggestion to downgrade our conference affiliation to make it easier for us to get the auto bid.Heck, I just want to play in an NCAA tournament again. Could this finally be our year?I'll agree that 20 wins next year will be a tremendous accomplishment.I'll also agree with you that using the odd starting lineup last Sunday was a bad idea. That poor beginning really set the tone for a bad first half. Would the first half had been different if the regular starting lineup had been in there from the opening tip? Of course, we'll never know that, but why did we take such a chance when it was a game where it was so critical to establish early momentum.

[zipfan 81]

In Gary Waters second year at Cleveland State he takes them to the dance by beating the No. 10 team in the country for the second time this year. I didn't agree with Keith's decision to play Goddard and Milum and believe the momentum loss lead to the one-sided affair, but if not this team this year or last year's team last year -- then when does Akron go? I can't imagine next year being another big year for the Zips -- 20 wins next year will be a great feat. Is is possible we're just snake bitten?

If you believe that the playing of Goddard and Milum for 2 minutes in the beginning lead to the one-sided affair, you must really not know basketball. I don't care if he put in Sallee, Carroll, Goddard, Milum and anyone else, this team couldn't get it going the whole game until the last 5 minutes, and playing anyone for 2 minutes is not going to turn it into the one-sided affair it was. Look at the other 38 minutes of the game.

[Zip Watcher]

I'm in the camp that believes that starting those 5 guys was the absolutely correct thing to do. We should do that every year, for every player.

[w00t]

I'm in the camp that believes that starting those 5 guys was the absolutely correct thing to do. We should do that every year, for every player.

Most respectable programs do this.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Beyond that, we've had quite a few 20+ win seasons, indluding a couple when Huggins had us playing Independent, and have gotten snubbed.

1.) Define "quite a few." If, over the couse of two decades, 5 is "quite a few," then I guess you are correct.2.) Huggins followed up the 20-win NCAA appearance with two NIT's. And, Dambrot has an NIT bid too. The only "snub" we've had in the past 20 years was last season (NIT).

[GoZips88]

In Gary Waters second year at Cleveland State he takes them to the dance by beating the No. 10 team in the country for the second time this year. I didn't agree with Keith's decision to play Goddard and Milum and believe the momentum loss lead to the one-sided affair, but if not this team this year or last year's team last year -- then when does Akron go? I can't imagine next year being another big year for the Zips -- 20 wins next year will be a great feat. Is is possible we're just snake bitten?

GO BUTLER! Gary Waters and Cleveland State suck Akron Rubber Bowl trough water ... no room in the road schedule this year for Akron my .......

[Big Zip]

So you're saying that momentum has no impact on a basketball game. You're telling me the first three minutes did nothing to set the tone for the game? C'mon man you can't be serious calling out my basketball intelligence saying the three beginning of the game didn't have an impact on the mometum. Riddle me this batman -- when Al Fisher hit that last shot at the end of the game would you have liked to have three more minutes? UNC played their final home game and they started all of their seniors, but they played Florida State. If they were playing Duke like the did the following game would Surry have started -- hell NO -- he didn't even play. Do you want to win or make people feel good? I want to win -- if you want to play -- play better!

[w00t]

If they were playing Duke like the did the following game would Surry have started -- hell NO

Matter of fact... yes. Charlie Everett and C.J. Hooker did against Duke in 2005... and Dewey Burke last year.It's a common practice and it's one of the many things I like about college hoops as compared to the NBA.

[skip-zip]

Big Zip..you are very much correct. I've been connected with basketball my entire life, played, and coached, and have relatives and friends that played at the college level, and coach as well. Zipfan81...I'm sorry, you can argue all you want that "two minutes could not have made that much of a difference", but it made all the difference in the world if you account for things you are not accounting for, such as momentum, continuity of players on the floor, confidence, etc. Now..this is NOT to say that Keith didn't do a class thing by playing those guys. That's always a nice gesture, and I don't necessarily chastise him for doing it. But to say that it's just about a measly two minutes of basketball really shows me YOUR lack of knowledge about the game. Without a doubt, it set the tone for the entire first half. Kangaroo, I wasn't intending to be entirely accurate with facts that go back 30 years. I'm too tired to look all of that up about each individual year. I know there have been several 20+ win seasons, and believe there was one under Huggins in the late 80s where we also got snubbed from both tournaments after having a great record. But, if you consider the "big tournament" alone, we got snubbed from that tournament every one of those years, because our 1986 bid was an auto. I'll have to look up the details of some of those other seasons sometime and remind myself of the exact number of wins, and which tournament we appeared in. I'm getting old, and can't recall details off hand like I used to.

[Zippysgotagun]

The original point of this thread is moot anyways, seeing as how CSU got smoked.

[ziprowdy]

its good to see CSU's program starting to climb its way back...they've had a string of bad coaches ever since mackey screwed up probably the best thing they had going there...they may have gotten smoked...but they beat the same team earlier in the season...a top 25 team...thats all i am saying about that...akron better have a fire under their butts, and they better be ready for this tourny...GO ZIPS!!!!

[Blue & Gold]

its good to see CSU's program starting to climb its way back...they've had a string of bad coaches ever since mackey screwed up probably the best thing they had going there...they may have gotten smoked...but they beat the same team earlier in the season...a top 25 team...thats all i am saying about that...akron better have a fire under their butts, and they better be ready for this tourny...GO ZIPS!!!!

Yeah. I watched the CSU game last night and even though they lost, they looked damn good. Very athletic, very quick, very fast. Frankly, I'm glad now that the Zips didn't play them this year. Additionally, most of their studs are juniors, so I'm hoping we avoid them next year too!

[RootforRoo44]

I'm in the camp that believes that starting those 5 guys was the absolutely correct thing to do. We should do that every year, for every player.

AMEN...and it had nothing to do with the lopsided game. It was all about the TEAM not being able to hit shots as a TEAM. Not just 2 guys.

[zipfan 81]

I'm in the camp that believes that starting those 5 guys was the absolutely correct thing to do. We should do that every year, for every player.

AMEN...and it had nothing to do with the lopsided game. It was all about the TEAM not being able to hit shots as a TEAM. Not just 2 guys.

Exactly! Everyone is trying to find an excuse and to put it on Goddard and Milum is ridiculous.

[GoZips88]

I'm in the camp that believes that starting those 5 guys was the absolutely correct thing to do. We should do that every year, for every player.

AMEN...and it had nothing to do with the lopsided game. It was all about the TEAM not being able to hit shots as a TEAM. Not just 2 guys.

Exactly! Everyone is trying to find an excuse and to put it on Goddard and Milum is ridiculous.

As I already stated in a previous post on this thread, the classy thing to do is to start those five guys. No excuse for leaking oil as badly as we did ... my only question is could a basket or two (maybe three?) in those first 2-1/2 minutes of play made enough of a difference in the final outcome ... I don't think I would have passed up the opportunity to sub the first time around (KD left all five out there if I remember correctly) but then again, as previously stated, I have no class ...

[zipfan 81]

I'm in the camp that believes that starting those 5 guys was the absolutely correct thing to do. We should do that every year, for every player.

AMEN...and it had nothing to do with the lopsided game. It was all about the TEAM not being able to hit shots as a TEAM. Not just 2 guys.

Exactly! Everyone is trying to find an excuse and to put it on Goddard and Milum is ridiculous.

As I already stated in a previous post on this thread, the classy thing to do is to start those five guys. No excuse for leaking oil as badly as we did ... my only question is could a basket or two (maybe three?) in those first 2-1/2 minutes of play made enough of a difference in the final outcome ... I don't think I would have passed up the opportunity to sub the first time around (KD left all five out there if I remember correctly) but then again, as previously stated, I have no class ...

Quote from the BuchteliteThe rivalry game served as Senior Night for the Zips' men's basketball program. Dambrot elected to start the team's five seniors: the three usual starters - Dials, Middleton and Wood - and guard Nick Goddard and forward Quade Milum."It's not really my style, but I thought it was the right thing to do," Dambrot said. "All five of those guys have been a part of our program (and) done a good job. (We) didn't get out of the box very well, but I'd do it again if I had to."There are things more important than playing your five best guys all the time."

[zipdiehard]

In regards to CSU, I remember a time when all the NE Ohio schools had good programs and coaches. I hope I'm not mixing timeframes, but if I remebmer right at one point UA (Huggins), CSU (Mackey), Can't State (McDonald), and YSU (Rice?) all had good teams in their respective conferences, which ultimately led to some great games between each other. I for one would like to see it get back to that. Heck, how about a set of games in December at the Q - UA vs CSU, Can't vs YSU.

[Blue & Gold]

In regards to CSU, I remember a time when all the NE Ohio schools had good programs and coaches. I hope I'm not mixing timeframes, but if I remebmer right at one point UA (Huggins), CSU (Mackey), Can't State (McDonald), and YSU (Rice?) all had good teams in their respective conferences, which ultimately led to some great games between each other. I for one would like to see it get back to that. Heck, how about a set of games in December at the Q - UA vs CSU, Can't vs YSU.

This sounds like a good idea. But screw the Q. I don't like dropping any more of my money up in Cleveland that I already do. Bring the teams down here to Akron. Every year Walsh and Malone host a Hoops For Habitat Tourney where Malone would host the teams during the first night of the tourney and play Team A in the nightcap while Walsh would play Team B in the first contest of the evening. On the second night of the tourney Walsh would be the host school and play Team A in the nightcap while Malone would play Team B in the first contest of the evening. It was fun because both Malone and Walsh could see how their clubs compare to like opponents, and also served to highten the excitement for the annual Malone-Walsh games. Naturally, Malone would be very interested in the Walsh games and vice-versa. It gave both Walsh and Malone the opportunity to make statements to each other. Some of the money from the event would go to benefit Habitat For Humanity. Akron and K.e.n.t. could cooperate like this and bring in CSU & YSU (or 2 other schools for that matter.) I just remember it being a lot of fun.

[flipthezip]

Was it the right move to start all 5 seniors? Yes. Class move by KD. Was it the right move to let them play as long as they did? No. There was a foul on Goddard a little over a minute in that stopped the clock. The substitutions should have been made right there when it was 2-0. Of course the real damage occurred well after all of this when we went nearly 9 minutes scoring only 2 points.