Spring Football in Akron -

[johnnyzip84]

As suggested, here is a place to discuss the possibilities of a spring league in Akron, whether it be of the college variety proposed by GP1 or a reformed USFL (of which there is a follow-up story in today's Beacon Journal.

Here are a few comments/corrections I have from what had already been posted on this subject in the previous thread:

For azipper

1) YSU is an FCS school - the "C" in FCS stands for Championship, as in they decide the champion on the field. The "B" in FBS stands for Bowl, as in they play for a chance to go to a bowl game. I know some people still long for the D1 and D1-AA categories, but seriously how long does it take for something like this to sink in? As I say that, I realize the new playoff format could likely force this to change altogether once again

2) Actually, the only sell-out in Info history WAS against Morgan St (so Morgan St was a bad example).

Pertaining to GP1's proposal

1) The issue about the NFL draft is a big one (for me). I think it (playing in the spring) could clearly affect our recruiting. One of the reasons why the USFL was successful (IMO), was the fact that there were more than enough pro-caliber football players than the NFL could handle in those days. The USFL took full advantage of that, and I'm afraid the explicit lack of opportunity (regardless of how remote it may be for the individual recruit) to play in the NFL would seriously dilute the talent pool in a proposed spring (college) league.

2) I do like the potential for differentiating yourself from the rest of college football, but bullet 1 might be a showstopper.

[GP1]

2) I do like the potential for differentiating yourself from the rest of college football, but bullet 1 might be a showstopper.

This is as good of a reason for not doing it as saying UofA firing Jim Dennison is reason people don't go to games. It's a non issue and a bad excuse for not doing something. Every 5'10" kid thinks he is going to play in the NFL. It's outside of the world of reality. If an NFL team thinks a kid can play, they will find a way to get them on their team. A team might see a kid playing in May in a game and say, "We need that guy."

I love the idea of a national conference in combination with other MAClike conferences. Further, I like the idea of getting publicity through being the only game in town in the spring and early summer.

What are our other options?

1. Big East...Becoming worse by the year and will be no more than a glorified CUSA before too long.

2. CUSA...not a bad choice, but nobody watches the games in the fall because of BCS schools sucking the air out of everything.

3. Make the MAC better..... 1948.

4. Stay where we are. How is this working out for us?

MAClike conferences are on the college football version of the Titanic. There is an old joke on this board about rearranging the chairs on the Titanic. Conference realignment at the MAClike level is nothing more than rearranging the chairs. Worse, we are throwing more chairs onto the deck (see UNCC, ODU, etc joining S-1A) while the ship is sinking. The best thing for the chairs is to get them off of the ship. We have met the enemy and we are us.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

There would have to be something compelling about a new format and teams involved to bring eyeballs. Let's say that the MAC and the Sunbelt decided that their football seasons would start in the Spring and end middle of Summer. How many fans are going to turn the channel to Western Michigan versus Akron on any night of the week this time of year? I think not many. There would have to be something more compelling about the TV product than that "it's football in Spring". The teams/conferences involved would have to include some ratings-gatherers, would have to introduce something new in the game play (more dynamic offense or rule changes that make it somehow interesting to potential viewers), bring an emphasis on safety and/or weight limits for players to differentiate itself from Fall football, or bring traditional powerhouse personalities to amp up entertainment value. By May, traditional football fans are turning their attention to baseball, vacation, yard work, etc. Spring football that consists of crappy leagues/teams like those that the MAC offers would fail in the Spring just like they currently fail in the Fall. So, for GP1, how do you differentiate the game? How do you revolutionize it so that people wonder enough about it to tune in instead of tuning into the Yankees on the radio while they work in the yard?

[GP1]

There would have to be something compelling about a new format and teams involved to bring eyeballs. Let's say that the MAC and the Sunbelt decided that their football seasons would start in the Spring and end middle of Summer. How many fans are going to turn the channel to Western Michigan versus Akron on any night of the week this time of year? I think not many. There would have to be something more compelling about the TV product than that "it's football in Spring". The teams/conferences involved would have to include some ratings-gatherers, would have to introduce something new in the game play (more dynamic offense or rule changes that make it somehow interesting to potential viewers), bring an emphasis on safety and/or weight limits for players to differentiate itself from Fall football, or bring traditional powerhouse personalities to amp up entertainment value. By May, traditional football fans are turning their attention to baseball, vacation, yard work, etc. Spring football that consists of crappy leagues/teams like those that the MAC offers would fail in the Spring just like they currently fail in the Fall. So, for GP1, how do you differentiate the game? How do you revolutionize it so that people wonder enough about it to tune in instead of tuning into the Yankees on the radio while they work in the yard?

Having football to watch would be compelling enough. Americans love the game and will watch it when it is presented. They will watch football over MLB, which gets terrible ratings. Vacation? Peoople can plan their vacations around the Zips home games and not go when they are being played. The USFL produced football games and people watched them. It was plain old football just like the nfl and people watched. There is a constant demand for football in the US....look at how much espn covers the nfl when it is not in season. We could give America real games in a national super conference.

As far as ratings, sell it to a network like Fox. Fox is shameless and would promote the heck out of it and people watch a lot of Fox programing because it is so will promoted. Regional coverage could be provided through local stations. Nothing would have to be reinvented. It is a sport in great demand and people will watch it.

Fill the demand.

[Zipmeister]

And with the only D1 teams making the switch to Spring ball being members of the desperate MAC and Sun Belt Conferences, we won't have to worry about scheduling any of the pesky money-making away games against BCS teams. The fans are sure to love a steady diet of OOC games against the finest teams the Sun Belt can offer.

[GP1]

And with the only D1 teams making the switch to Spring ball being members of the desperate MAC and Sun Belt Conferences, we won't have to worry about scheduling any of the pesky money-making away games against BCS teams. The fans are sure to love a steady diet of OOC games against the finest teams the Sun Belt can offer.

If the choice is MAC and Sun Belt, then we shouldn't do it. If we could get the other MAClike D-1A schools to follow, we would really have something national. If we can't do it on a national level, we shouldn't do it.

[GP1]

As suggested, here is a place to discuss the possibilities of a spring league in Akron, whether it be of the college variety proposed by GP1 or a reformed USFL (of which there is a follow-up story in today's Beacon Journal.

Link

1:30 commissioner of this league will be on the radio. Listen over the internet.

USFL Q&A

This guy is looking at cities like Omaha, Akron, etc. I think that could be a mistake. TV networks want viewer and one can't leave out Boston, NY, LA, etc. if the league is going to make it financially. The original USFL had teams in major media markets and was doing just fine. No reason to go away from that design.

Funny, they don't seem to think playing in the summer/spring will hurt the players chances of getting with an NFL team...I agree. It wouldn't hurt a college kids chances either.

[scottditzen]

Interesting. But on a more frivilous point, how will the USFL commissioner address the fact that the pool of good sports team names has already dried up?

Sincerely,

The Kansas City Wiz

Link

1:30 commissioner of this league will be on the radio. Listen over the internet.

USFL Q&A

This guy is looking at cities like Omaha, Akron, etc. I think that could be a mistake. TV networks want viewer and one can't leave out Boston, NY, LA, etc. if the league is going to make it financially. The original USFL had teams in major media markets and was doing just fine. No reason to go away from that design.

Funny, they don't seem to think playing in the summer/spring will hurt the players chances of getting with an NFL team...I agree. It wouldn't hurt a college kids chances either.

[GP1]

Interesting. But on a more frivilous point, how will the USFL commissioner address the fact that the pool of good sports team names has already dried up?

Sincerely,

The Kansas City Wiz

Simple.... You address it with a furry mascot with a name not even remotely related to the team.

[Spin]

This guy is looking at cities like Omaha, Akron, etc. I think that could be a mistake. TV networks want viewer and one can't leave out Boston, NY, LA, etc. if the league is going to make it financially. The original USFL had teams in major media markets and was doing just fine.

It did? When?

When San Antonio had their uniforms repossessed? When Arizona and Oklahoma merged? When Arizona and Chicago traded franchises? When the Breakers moved? Twice? When several teams missed payroll and one stranded its players after the last game of the season, to find their own way home? When Philadelphia won the championship and then moved?

If that's "doing just fine", the XFL must have been a raging success.

[Spin]

I remember there were rumors of Akron getting a franchise in the original USFL, and then when the CFL expanded into the US, we were suppose to get a team called the Canton Bulldogs, who would play at the Rubber Blow.

Now I'm glad they both fell through. Minor league football, or alternate league football just doesn't work.

[GP1]

It did?

AFL

The AFL had the same problems early and became so popular they were able to join with the NFL. Had the USFL not derailed itself with trying to compete against the NFL, it would have done well. The demand for football in the US is too great not to have a spring/summer league on a 100 yard field with sane rules.

Don't be so closed minded...

[GP1]

Now I'm glad they both fell through. Minor league football, or alternate league football just doesn't work.

Only one of these leagues was a serious league.

The XFL was more like the WWE. Football in Europe just isn't going to make it ever. See history of AFL for the USFL...it will work. It has to be run by serious people.

[johnnyzip84]

I realize the original USFL said similar things early on, but if you take the new USFL leaders at their word they do not intend to compete with the NFL. They plan to be a minor league “feeder” system, much like what was envisioned by the old

(1965-1969 R.I.P) of which the

were a VERY brief member in 1967.

And this news is just in. Jeff Garcia has been named to the USFL council, in some sort of player development role.

[GP1]

I realize the original USFL said similar things early on, but if you take the new USFL leaders at their word they do not intend to compete with the NFL. They plan to be a minor league “feeder” system,

I don't see how a minor league feeder system will work. I want spring football and I will watch it when it is on (Hell, I watch the CFL), but I don't see how this particular idea will work. NFL careers are extremely short and the best exposure against the best competition a player can get between the ages of 18 and 23 is in college. I actually believe it would not be good for a 19 year old to try to play against a 25 year old with four years of BCS football and two years of "professional" under his belt. The shelf life of most players is pretty short....Especially at the margins. A minor league football system would supply players down the roster. College football mostly at the BCS level would still supply the stars of the NFL.

[Dr Z]

I don't see how a minor league feeder system will work.

What if they had kewl names on their backs? Like "HE HATE ME"...wouldn't that be awesome?

His little bro was drafted by your Steelers this year?!?!

[Spin]

Only one of these leagues was a serious league.

The XFL was more like the WWE. Football in Europe just isn't going to make it ever. See history of AFL for the USFL...it will work. It has to be run by serious people.

The AFL wasn't going up against a league that had most of the ten most-watched shows on TV every year. The NFL of the 60's was still behind baseball (and probably even basketball).

The AFL also brought in a more exciting pass-friendly game to the sport.

I just think that outdoor football is wayyyy too expensive to sustain itself as a minor league sport. Paying 40-50 players something above the poverty line, equip them, and transport them all over the country. No other minor league sport does any of that. And no other minor league is on a TV network (besides minor league NASCAR).

If they keep their head, stay regional (already shot to hell), they might make it. I just don't see how. I have been burned by a dozen football leagues, a couple basketball leagues, outdoor and indoor soccer leagues, I want to see it work before I invest any interest in it.

[GP1]

I just think that outdoor football is wayyyy too expensive to sustain itself as a minor league sport. Paying 40-50 players something above the poverty line, equip them, and transport them all over the country. No other minor league sport does any of that. And no other minor league is on a TV network (besides minor league NASCAR).

I think it has more to do with quality of play and basic entertainment value. The AFL was a good league with good players playing an exciting brand of football. it didn't take long for the Jets to win the Super Bowl. The world league was a crap developmental league. The USFL had future NFL stars playing in it right out of college in their prime and was providing quality entertainment. To me, it is about entertainment. I'm not a big fan of minor league sports. I've been to games, but my interest falters quickly. I don't like to hear the word professional and see something that doesn't, in my eyes, meet a professional standard.

When I watch college, I know I'm not getting a professional standard and it isn't meant to meet a professional standard. There is no pretense for anyone watching it and everyone totally understands what they are buying. That's why I still believe a college spring league would do well. People know the nonbcs teams aren't bcs level but understand it is college football. Americans love football and like to support it. The next time you are in a bar, look at how many people will watch a rerun on the NFL Network or ESPNU and not a live major league baseball game on the TV next to it. It is an addiction.

The advantage of a college football spring league is they are taxpayer subsidized just like they are now, which is why to compare failed spring professional leagues to a potential college league isn't a very good comparison. The spring league would allow for more TV revenue and I firmly believe attendance because people won't have BCS games on TV. What the league would do for college football is bridge the gap between expenditures and revenue and give the taxpayers a badly needed break.

There was once a book written about industry and the importance of being in the top 3 companies of any industry. A company can make a lot of money in third place. I dare say in the football industry in the US, NFL is #1, BCS is #2 and nonBCS is #3. We are in the top 3, we are being overshadowed by the other two. We would still be #3 in the spring, but out of the shadow. Once in the sunlight, there is growth (for those of you who like "growing and building). Stay in the shadow, and nothing grows. Personally, I'm tired of standing in the shadows and bitching about the bigger trees around me. Other than our own short sightedness, nothing is keeping us from walking out from under the trees.

[johnnyzip84]

More on USFL 2.0

Notice that Akron (and not Columbus) is now (apparently) the only Ohio city still under consideration.

After a series of conversations with potential ownership groups, Cuadra said the USFL's eight teams are likely to come from a group of cities that includes Austin, Akron, Ohio, Portland, Ore., Memphis, Tenn., Birmingham, Ala., Raleigh-Durham, N.C., Oklahoma City, Omaha, Neb., and Las Vegas. Orange County (league organizers toured Titan Stadium on the campus of Cal State Fullerton two weeks ago) and a to-be-determined site in South Florida are also under consideration.

[GP1]

Amazing...Brian Sipe played for the New Jersey Generals. I don't remember that.

I don't think this league will work because I don't think players can be developed for the NFL the way MLB does with minor leagues. The length of a football player's career is too short to spend it in the minors. I do applaud the ownership group of this league understanding the huge market football provides.

Nature abhors a vacuum. Spring and early summer is the vacuum of football for Americans. We crave the game. Now is the time for a college football division to play in the spring to fill that vacuum. If Fox is looking to provide football on a sports network, MAClike conferences should be filling that position with a national conference of their own. Fox will promote the Hell out of the league, get people watching and make us some money. Something is going to fill the vacuum because nature says it will. Mother Nature is always right.

Do you guys want to continue to suck hind teat behind the BCS and NFL; or do you want to do something that, for once, puts us in a position to control our own destiny?

[Spin]

Amazing...Brian Sipe played for the New Jersey Generals. I don't remember that.

I don't think this league will work because I don't think players can be developed for the NFL the way MLB does with minor leagues. The length of a football player's career is too short to spend it in the minors. I do applaud the ownership group of this league understanding the huge market football provides.

Nature abhors a vacuum. Spring and early summer is the vacuum of football for Americans. We crave the game. Now is the time for a college football division to play in the spring to fill that vacuum. If Fox is looking to provide football on a sports network, MAClike conferences should be filling that position with a national conference of their own. Fox will promote the Hell out of the league, get people watching and make us some money. Something is going to fill the vacuum because nature says it will. Mother Nature is always right.

Do you guys want to continue to suck hind teat behind the BCS and NFL; or do you want to do something that, for once, puts us in a position to control our own destiny?

Maybe it would work for the USFL, afterall who would have thought Arena Football would last 25 years. The key IMO is to control salaries, and not go out and outpay the NFL. Maybe a league setup like the MLS where players are paid by the league, and caps are hard and completely controlled.

And recruiting would actually be EASIER since you are not playing in the shadow of tOSU. You're on network TV. The NFL scouts would be watching.

I don't see how you could wrap up your season before the NFL draft though. 8 MAC players were drafted last spring. 27 were signed as undrafted free agents. Temple had 10 players either drafted or signed, if we had a team of that quality that would change the whole face of the team at mid-season. Half of the starters, gone. The weekend after the draft, they were all in rookie minicamps.

I'm not anti-spring football, I was actually a fan of the Boston/New Orleans/Portland Breakers. And was hoping Akron or Canton would get a team. It would be fun, once the weather broke very year.

I just don't know about moving Zips football to a spring conference. I'm not satisfied with our current place in the food chain, and in all honesty if BowdenBall doesn't make us the next Boise/TCU I would just as soon go FCS. I just want to see how it would all play out.

I don't want to see a schedule where we lose our better players in April when the season runs through May...

[GP1]

I don't see how you could wrap up your season before the NFL draft though. 8 MAC players were drafted last spring. 27 were signed as undrafted free agents.

A couple of things. First, college baseball players get drafted while their season is going on all of the time.

Second, we can't let what happens to 8 players who get drafted decide the fate of our level of football. If a team wants a player bad enough, they will wait for him. Our level of football continues to fail for one simple reason....nobody tries. We follow Captain Smith's orders, but we never really try.

[johnnyzip84]

Beacon says UA and City of Akron to meet with USFL officials.

The truly bizarre part in this story is the notion that the Rubber Bowl is being considered as the venue. Very strange.

[ZippyRulz]

from the article: "One of the primary reasons UA built InfoCision was because it viewed the [Rubber Bowl] as outdated and inadequate. After four years of standing idle, the Rubber Bowl that opened in 1940 would require significant work and upgrades."

[ZachTheZip]

Perception often lags about 10 years behind reality. I'm sure that whoever came up with the idea to use the RB still thinks of it as it was during the Lee Owens years. Most people in Akron not familiar with the situation think much the same. Even a cursury inspection should dispell that belief.

Fixing the Rubber Bowl would cost more than the entire value of the team they hope to bring here.