LosAngelesZipFan

I just saw on the soccer schedule that UCLA is coming to play UA in Akron in November. Anyone have any insight on scheduling dynamics work in soccer? I think it's pretty cool that this is happening and am hoping it means that perhaps UA will be out here to play the Bruins next year? Is there a similar "home and home" expectation?

Following this game by thread is beyond frustrating-- am trying to understand who is QB'ing. Chapman started and rushed a bunch. Pohl came in and had a big completion. Then he came out? Is it all totally shambolic?

omg this is so frustrating-- the live stats feed is not working. I have no idea what is happening. Could someone post occasional updates

OK State at CMU and Mich State at WMU are great home games for MAC schools.... (off the hustle belt article)

Yes, this is exactly why you don't tie a small manageable deficit to funding your pet projects/strategic priorities-- because it has reinforced a very negative narrative about UA so that now any and all things will be tied to that large, completely inaccurate $60 million number. It will take years of good news to erase this impression. Hey, maybe they should make it like Ohio Poly is taking over UA so that it's like a reset. No more UA baggage to deal with because it's a whole new institution! And to make following easier for those tracking on their game boards at home, the Beacon has added a whole new section and handy graphic:

If they can keep enrollment and fundraising from tanking, it will be a win. We won't know that for another year...

My point in this is that a university making a 2% cut in its budget to close a budget hole isn't a story, It's just the normal course of business. A new president looking for ways to find savings in one area to re-direct into another area isn't really a big story, certainly not a "the place is coming unglued" story. In fact, it's a "implementing a strategy" story. But when you put the 2 together (conflate them), it becomes a "this is a crisis" story. Not good. It results in honors college freshman saying things like “It’s good to see Akron’s not dead,” said Kerry Holmes, 18, of Akron, who will study computer science. “It’s just having a little turmoil.”

Re-posting from the now close thread for context on this one: One of the things that has really bothered me over the last 5 months of sturm und drang/Scarphoon has been the amount of the budget hole that needed to be filled. The U kept talking about a $60 million deficit that needed to be closed, which is significant. Often the scale of the issue was connected to "over-building by Proenza" specifically "that stadium". As I posted earlier, UA's debt is on the high side compared to overall budget (about 1:1), but this isn't unprecedented in Ohio at the moment (UC's debt is roughly 110% of its annual budget from the numbers I could find; Miami is over 90%; Can't about 80%). What has gnawed at me is that a deficit of that size doesn't just appear unless there is some sudden change in circumstance. The U doesn't just do annual budgets-- it has a team looking at the budget over many years and would have to do so for credit services, the state, etc. It's not possible that the budget would suddenly leak $60 million. I finally found the answer in the PD article today: "Scarborough met Wednesday with the Northeast Ohio Media Group's editorial board to talk about how he had anticipated that the moves would be controversial yet why it was necessary to quickly launch a three-year plan to eliminate a $20 million budget shortfall while providing $10 million for new initiatives and $30 million for capital repairs and improvements. "We didn't have the luxury of time," he said. "We knew we had to make deep changes..." Ahhhh...it's not an immediate $60 million shortfall. It's a $20 million over 3 years shortfall, about $8 million per year, against an annual budget of $484 million. Closing that gap requires an annual cut of 1.6% to that budget, certainly nothing eye-brow raising. I totally understand that presidents want to make their mark by implementing their strategy. A big part of their job is to have a vision and then push the institution in that direction. The budget is the mechanism to do this. In this case, it appears that what should have been a budget process was elevated into a crisis and a PR disaster for UA. (Great quote from a new honors student the other day: “It’s good to see Akron’s not dead,” said Kerry Holmes, 18, of Akron, who will study computer science. “It’s just having a little turmoil.”). The way it appears to me is that Scarborough wanted to have $40 million available to support his vision and conflated that with a (real but manageable) budget deficit of $20 million. "Never let a good crisis go to waste" comes to mind. And if there isn't a crisis near at hand, manufacture one. Ideally, a new college president would marinate a bit on things like this and then go find incremental funding to support his strategic initiatives. The last 9 months have been a PR disaster creating an impression of a university flailing at its mission and on the edge of failing all together. From the naming dust up through to eliminating the baseball team because it's field as inconveniently situated, it's been one poorly handled, ill-considered, ham-fisted thing after another. I hope he can right the ship and this rocky start leads to a 20 tenure of growth for UA, a golden age when all the potential gets fully realized. But I am dubious, beyond so, that this will be the path.

We now have the answer to this question-- no. The actual budget 'hole' is $20 million over the next 3 years, or less than 2% per year on a $480 million+ annual budget. http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/08/university_of_akron_president_scott_scarborough_knew_addressing_60_million_problem_would_be_hard_but_necessary.html

One of the things that has really bothered me over the last 5 months of sturm und drang/Scarphoon has been the amount of the budget hole that needed to be filled. The U kept talking about a $60 million deficit that needed to be closed, which is significant. Often the scale of the issue was connected to "over-building by Proenza" specifically "that stadium". As I posted earlier, UA's debt is on the high side compared to overall budget (about 1:1), but this isn't unprecedented in Ohio at the moment (UC's debt is roughly 110% of its annual budget from the numbers I could find; Miami is over 90%; Can't about 80%). What has gnawed at me is that a deficit of that size doesn't just appear unless there is some sudden change in circumstance. The U doesn't just do annual budgets-- it has a team looking at the budget over many years and would have to do so for credit services, the state, etc. It's not possible that the budget would suddenly leak $60 million. I finally found the answer in the PD article today: "Scarborough met Wednesday with the Northeast Ohio Media Group's editorial board to talk about how he had anticipated that the moves would be controversial yet why it was necessary to quickly launch a three-year plan to eliminate a $20 million budget shortfall while providing $10 million for new initiatives and $30 million for capital repairs and improvements. "We didn't have the luxury of time," he said. "We knew we had to make deep changes..." Ahhhh...it's not an immediate $60 million shortfall. It's a $20 million over 3 years shortfall, about $8 million per year, against an annual budget of $484 million. Closing that gap requires an annual cut of 1.6% to that budget, certainly nothing eye-brow raising.I totally understand that presidents want to make their mark by implementing their strategy. A big part of their job is to have a vision and then push the institution in that direction. The budget is the mechanism to do this. In this case, it appears that what should have been a budget process was elevated into a crisis and a PR disaster for UA. (Great quote from a new honors student the other day: “It’s good to see Akron’s not dead,” said Kerry Holmes, 18, of Akron, who will study computer science. “It’s just having a little turmoil.”). The way it appears to me is that Scarborough wanted to have $40 million available to support his vision and conflated that with a (real but manageable) budget deficit of $20 million. "Never let a good crisis go to waste" comes to mind. And if there isn't a crisis near at hand, manufacture one. Ideally, a new college president would marinate a bit on things like this and then go find incremental funding to support his strategic initiatives. The last 9 months have been a PR disaster creating an impression of a university flailing at its mission and on the edge of failing all together. From the naming dust up through to eliminating the baseball team because it's field as inconveniently situated, it's been one poorly handled, ill-considered, ham-fisted thing after another. I hope he can right the ship and this rocky start leads to a 20 tenure of growth for UA, a golden age when all the potential gets fully realized. But I am dubious, beyond so, that this will be the path.

Seriously... wtf?! Scarphoon. I don't know that I have ever witnessed such an inept, ham-handed PR display. It's all appears to be even more haphazard and ill-thought than our worst fears. The challenges UA faces are real and significant. But the last 7 months has been all unforced errors-- one after another.

Building a fan base it hard, particularly when it means pushing against the decades of what UA (or Can't or any MAC school for that matter) has meant to NEO sports fans and in the context of an increasingly challenging landscape to build a program. It's not just winning, as evidenced by our BB team's struggle to fill the JAR consistently. It's clearly not just facility, as evidenced by building the Info. And it's not just Akron, but rather a MAC phenomenon, as evidenced by NIU. And it's also an issue for other schools in similar conferences like the MWC. Building a fan base is about building affiliation-- a tribe. That is hard to do, but not impossible. It is probably easier, however, to build from scratch rather than having to undo the preconceived notion about something that develops over decades. The key thing in building a tribe is a sense of movement. People have to feel like they are a part of something that is building, that has forward movement and momentum. And, it has to feel like that the destination is something important and significant. So, yes, at the core is winning because all the other hurdles are completely insurmountable without that. But that doesn't mean the other hurdles aren't don't exist. The marketing equation is "winning + reconsideration". Basically, we have a heavily flawed brand playing in a conference that ignites almost no interest in the market. The Scarphoon of negative news coverage the last 4 months has hurt our brand even more. Let's make the assumption (ok, wild leap of faith) that TB will start winning. What is the plan to drive 're-consideration', the critical step that would have to happen to reset the current default view.

Too bad it wasn't Obama stimulus dollars-- then there'd be no debt. Dyer's column is devastating in the picture it paints of Scar's leadership so far. And Proenza's. The headline is deadly "UA's demise". wow. This whole thing has been a PR disaster. Why would anyone go to UA, play for UA, contribute to UA at this point? Just devastating... One thing I think he should have noted is that UA's construction binge wasn't unusual or fantastically egregious-- our debt is large, but not unheard of. The reality is the campus desperately needed investment. He missed acknowledging this. He also didn't note that this was a huge investment in Akron, probably the single biggest investment in Akron in decades. Resources didn't leave the area-- they came in. Thousands of construction jobs and $600 million of local investment. He should be saying "it's a fantastic and amazing thing to have that investment occur but now how does the community help justify the faith that Proenza showed by making this investment?" I dunno-- something still seems really off to me. Did revenues plummet (because of enrollment declines) or expenses increase unexpectedly by tens of millions? Was there an accounting change of some sort? A sudden $60 million "hole" doesn't just appear out of nowhere.

BTW and for WIW, looking at the chart with the data I dredged up really shows where UA is in the pecking order-- an analytical version of Pres SS's napkin. From a budgetary perspective, we are even smaller than Miami, which I find hard to comprehend. The point? If you are in Columbus and have never been to UA or associated with it, you look at it with a very jaundiced eye I think. To me, it points out the absolute necessity to volunteer and cheerlead for some sort of confederation with Can't (i'm abstaining from calling it a merger... ). A confederation is better than a takeover. We have to show that we are part of the solution, not just another problem child to be managed.

2004 debt 2014 debt 2015 budget Debt/Budget The Ohio State University $814,606,000 $2,605,528,000 $5,304,280,000 49% Miami University $93,151,622 $641,065,000 $697,741,049 92% University of Cincinnati $894,596,000 $1,236,000,000 $1,120,000,000 110% The University of Akron $204,729,516 $487,101,792 $484,000,000 101% Ohio University $171,300,000 $332,900,000 $653,000,000 51% The University of Toledo 176,097,000 $332,549,000 $790,868,256 42% Can't State University $279,351,000 $506,455,000 $648,100,738 78%

I posted this on the IAA topic... interesting context on UA's budget. When you look at this data, and in the absence of the full budget perspective, I wouldn't look at UA's debt load as unique or relatively alarming. We are well below a few schools including Miami, Can't, and UC (let's not even consider OSU in this mix) and in the neighborhood of OU and Toledo. If UA is straining under this debt burden, causing massive budget issues, why aren't the others? http://www.daytondai...tops-65b/nj83M/ Total debt outstanding at Ohio public universities Borrowing at Ohio's 14 public universities more than doubled over the last decade. Most spending was for building construction and renovations. University 2004 2014 The Ohio State University $814,606,000 $2,605,528,000 Miami University $93,151,622 $641,065,000 Wright State University $16,484,121 $101,957,190 University of Cincinnati $894,596,000 $1,236,000,000 Central State University $2,535,821 $17,781,501 Youngstown State University $13,680,000 $70,710,037 Northeast Ohio Medical University $0 $40,649,167 The University of Akron $204,729,516 $487,101,792 Bowling Green State University $84,400,000 $147,100,000 Ohio University $171,300,000 $332,900,000 The University of Toledo 176,097,000 $332,549,000 Can't State University $279,351,000 $506,455,000 Cleveland State University $54,487,124 $205,581,517 TOTAL $2,805,418,204 $6,725,378,204

yes!

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/debt-of-ohio-public-universities-tops-65b/nj83M/ Total debt outstanding at Ohio public universities Borrowing at Ohio's 14 public universities more than doubled over the last decade. Most spending was for building construction and renovations. University 2004 2014 The Ohio State University $814,606,000 $2,605,528,000 Miami University $93,151,622 $641,065,000 Wright State University $16,484,121 $101,957,190 University of Cincinnati $894,596,000 $1,236,000,000 Central State University $2,535,821 $17,781,501 Youngstown State University $13,680,000 $70,710,037 Northeast Ohio Medical University $0 $40,649,167 The University of Akron $204,729,516 $487,101,792 Bowling Green State University $84,400,000 $147,100,000 Ohio University $171,300,000 $332,900,000 The University of Toledo 176,097,000 $332,549,000 Can't State University $279,351,000 $506,455,000 Cleveland State University $54,487,124 $205,581,517 TOTAL $2,805,418,204 $6,725,378,204

Oy... the drumbeat begins... dropping to fbs saves something at the margins but nothing all that significant. We need to be much more creative...

BTW, the state actually has a program to create a unified global student recruitment effort https://www.ohiohighered.org/sites/ohiohighered.org/files/uploads/global/GREATreport.pdf I still think this would be a great place for UA and Can't to create a unique, combined effort on for the benefit of NEO.

It is hard to second guess re-building campus-- it desperately needed it. Too bad there wasn't more state support available for it. After looking at the budget info on the UA website, and in the context of our convo of confederating UA and Can't in some way, I wonder if there would be a way to pass a small 'sin tax' in NEO counties served by a confederated UA-Can't "NEO system". Since the state is basically abdicating its role in funding higher ed, the local community steps in and provides some support. Perhaps local residents then get a scholly/rebate to attend. Maybe it's a crazy idea, but it would directly align the support of the institutions with the area that benefits from their presence. BTW, is OU getting a lift from fracking in its area? Is that bringing in new dollars that are trickling to OU in some way?

The biggest chunk of both ADs is football-- we can't afford 2 of these football programs in NEO. It's only going to get worse, regardless of the records. Start there, get an exception from the NCAA to have a single Akron-Can't football program.

To your point 'matic, I'd love to get a better understanding of what happened-- a $60M deficit didn't happen overnight. It's not the debt from the stadium that did this. Dr. P didn't have forecasts that showed this hole in the budget emerging like this. Was it an unexpected drop in enrollment? I read on another thread that the drop in enrollment was actually in the plan as UA tightened up enrollment standards, but there as also a plan a couple years ago to drive enrollment to 35K. What happened?

Very happy to see this convo continue and the idea of some sort of merger/confederation gaining some traction. It is so incredibly obvious that this a really logical path to at least explore. We don't need 2 D-1 baseball programs, golf programs, etc, in NEO and we can't afford 2 football programs. It's really a strategic choice for Ohio and more specifically NEO: would you rather maintain a slowly deteriorating status quo or make a big move that created UC-like school for NEO. It is unquestionable that the latter would be a more efficient economic and social engine for NEO. The idea I floated a few weeks ago of beginning with a shared "Global Institute" was my way of creating a (virtual) shared market so that at least outside of NEO Can't and UA were working together: compete locally but cooperate everywhere else. The global institute is akin to what Indianapolis was for IU and PU-- a market that was better to work together in rather than compete for. Assuming that a full-blown merger is too much to force immediately, I think the State should force the following between UA and Can't: Work towards a goal of total inter-operability between the schools in 3 years. Align calendars, curriculum, budgets, etc. The core at Akron should be the same as at Can't. Akron continues to develop deeper STEM courses while Can't develops liberal arts courses, creating a complimentary course/faculty structure. Force the two schools, their administrations and faculties to get over the notion that either is really better than the other-- and that competing with each other is not the best thing for NEO or Ohio. I think it is going to take this kind of mandate from Columbus to force this to happen, the direction being "get over yourselves, you have to work together to make the NEO pie bigger rather than competing for slightly large slices of a shrinking pie". A full blown merger doesn't have to happen immediately, but the structures are aligned to facilitate it in the future. The schools immediately begin acting as a single U internationally. This is the NEO Global Institute idea at work. UA and Can't both have outreach programs/offices in China today; in the future, there would be 1 representing UA/Can't and generating interest and investment in NEO. Instead of separate international programs and affiliations with foreign universities, there would be 1 international program. Can't currently has 'centers' in China, India, Florence and Geneva (http://www.Can't.edu/globaleducation/Can't-state-worldwide) and UA has some sort of global program (http://www.uakron.edu/oip/). I would bet that this combined effort would be able to get significant funding from NEO-focused foundations like Knight, Gund, etc., because it would be a way to bring in global interest and investment to NEO in a much bigger way.The Can't-Akron branch system becomes a shared feeder system in next 3 years-- still mostly administered by Can't in the near term, but if you are attending Can't State Ashtabula (which was in my backyard growing up), you can as easily feed into UA as Can't main campus. By doing this, it creates a de facto NEO university system almost overnight and begins to demonstrate the logic of single institution approach. Explore a way for UA and Can't to have a shared football program-- 2 aren't affordable and there is no historical reason to believe there is a pathway to sustained success for either continuing as is. Sharing a base of 50,000+ students with 400K alums targeting a market of 2 million people behind one program is a much better proposition than splitting all that between 2. Not sure what the NCAA rules are on this-- can 2 institutions have a shared team? Integrated alumni network. Pretty low lift effort to start to do joint alumni programming. Instead of trying to have separate events in a place like LA, create joint events so there is a better chance of getting a good turnout.

I did a back the envelope calculation a few months back on a different thread (I've been beating this drum for a couple of years now) and estimated there would be at least $30 million in annual savings (http://zipsnation.org/forums/topic/32302-neo-university/?p=230247) without really even digging into it. The discouraging thing that I have taken from this discussion is that even with this type of merger, or even a near-term approach of "compete locally, cooperate everywhere else", a UA-Can't combo is still very undistinguished in almost every measure (but size/scale). Great discussion and I think very much demonstrates the kind of discourse that should be happening throughout the country. I wish leaders in NEO would really study this!