ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net

Spring practice needs to be brutal next year and it should. It's time to find out who wants to play and who doesn't. You find that out in the spring.I well remember that in the early Fall JD was proud as a peacock that he had limited contact in practice and thus had maintained a healthy team going into the season. He thought the team was fresher than it had been in years past. He thought they would hold up better once play began. I shuddered. The only teams (in the NFL at least) that I am aware of having been successful with light practices was the 49ers under Bill Walsh. Most of the teams that are successful on a consistent basis hit hard in training camp and practice.I'd like to be a little more detail-oriented regarding the team talent than we've been on here so far. Where is the solid talent and how is it being misused? Who are the "men" on the field for the Zips, beyond the obvious three or four, and how do they stack up against their position competition in the MAC? How does a pretty good O-line go from good to bad so quickly? Where would you put your recruiting efforts this year?

Cap'n you asked about the talent in your last post. I am no talent evaluation guy but at what point do we as fans start to wonder about not only the coaching but also the players that have been recruited and are on the field? Now don't get me wrong. I'm not in any way asserting that we don't have talented players on this roster (or don't we?), but at this point I have to wonder whether we are recruiting the right mix of players, or whether the talent that has been recruited is right for schemes being played, or whether the talent just isn't receiving, or accepting, the coaching that is being provided. The problem for most of us is that not being talent evaluators we can't know whether the current roster is loaded with future NFLers (exaggeration) that is poorly coached, or whether the staff has lost the team, or whether the players that have been recruited just aren't as good as we all hoped for. I also don't know whether if we had, say, Pete Carrell coaching the team he would find a way to win with inferior talent. So, are there any high school coaches on board here, or former players who will comment on the state of the talent on the roster? I would love to know what the informed opinions are regarding the generic talent level of the Zips versus other MAC programs. Is part of the problem here bad recruiting by the staff? Are they recruiting talented kids who aren't then being coached well, or are the coaches not fitting the schemes to the players' abilities? Will a new staff be able to come in and make something of this team or are we about to be told about another 4-6 year process of bringing in kids to fit a new system? So many questions, so little beer....

Man, it sure does. Really, think about the offense last year versus this year. Gawd what a difference a year makes. I defy anyone to have guessed that this offense would be as anemic as they have turned out to be. I suppose the swing can go the other way next year, provided Nicely progresses and JD is working his trade in another city, far far away from Akron, Ohio in 2010. Here's hoping.

I hear that there is this fantastic NFL coach, Mangenius or some such, who would be just great for the Zips starting next year. Actually I'd love a passionate lower division guy who can recruit and put a solid team on the field. I'd prefer an innovative offensive mind because I think that part of what UA football should be is entertaining for a change. Just not entertaining in a 3-3-5 defensive kinda way!Whoever they grab, I want to know what the staff will be paid. If they continue to pay gutter wages (relative to other D-1 programs) than we'll continue to see gutter football here long term. I hope that UA becomes known as a place that is attractive as hell to up-and-comers because of the facilities, the football budget, the coaching salaries and the drive to be a winning program. Without those things, we could bring Pete Carroll in here and still be losers ten years from now.

Men's BB is absolutely a rivalry. No doubt about it, and a good one at that. Not so much for the crappy football game between these two schools though. Are you arguing that if there exists a rivalry in any sport between two schools, that animosity extends to all of the other sports as well?

Man I would surely hate to have the kid playing at UA. He's TERRIBLE!STZ

....and yet you may or may not see the irony you generate when you yourself had to hammer out a response, to say that the thread wasn't worth a response.I suppose we'll have to call yours the dumbest response within the dumbest thread ever. Now THAT's saying something. :lol: Oh, and I guess that makes two of us with Keyboard Diarrhea. Arggghhh, Cap'n!

W-E-A-K. Now, basketball, now you're talking. MAC powerhouse versus MAC wannabe. THAT I can get interested in. Football? Maybe some day when the game means something, to either team, in the larger context of their programs and their seasons. Thanks for the poll. All good. Oh, and GO ZIPS.STZ

Really, you're wrong, and as usual your response was self-righteous and sanctimonious. How about a couple more uses of the word "really" while you're at it? A rivalry isn't any kind of a rivalry until more than 10 or so of the fans from each side care about said rivalry. I'll say it one more time for those of you who clearly missed my point. The supposed UA/Can't State rivalry is a joke. Nobody beyond about ten posters here give a rat's behind about this "rivalry", and this "rivalry" is part and parcel of what has kept UA football small time in the minds of fans everywhere. A rivalry with a school that has won nothing in, well, forever. There's a winner for you....not. You can have your silly little "rivalry" game that nobody cares about, and I'll continue to root for better.Let's see how this grand "rivalry" game draws this weekend. It's a huge rivalry right? How many fans do you suppose will show up for this grand "rivalry"? 12K? 15K?

...and you've proven it with your post 'Meister.Here's the shocker to you my friend. Bottom's up!

Several posters have expressed alarm that another poster would dare question ZN orthodoxy. Others have accused me of being barely a fan. Only a couple posters have actually bothered to talk about other rivalry games, or to provide logical explanations regarding the extremely tepid UA/Can't State rivalry in football. For Zip37, I'd love to hear more about Pitt/WVU. Was there a cultural aspect to the game? Coal versus steel? Urban versus rural? For Zip Watcher, what underpins the rivalry between Purdue and Indiana? There has to be some underlying animosity there. Proximity isn't enough, and I certainly hope that you are more intellectually curious than to accept your daddy's fan biases and never ask the question "why" about those biases.When it comes to recruiting, I can see that since the schools sometimes compete for recruits and play in the same conference, it could matter. Are any of you actually aware of any recruit having chosen one over the other because of the wagon wheel game? Lastly, I'm annoyed that the Can't State game seems so important to some Zips fans, because most years it's an utterly meaningless game between two terrible football programs. Is that what you want? Is that where you'd like to continue to pour your energy as fans? Beating Can't State should be like breathing. It should be a complete given every year. To me the Can't State "rivalry" is an indication of how low-brow this program has been since I was a kid. If you say to an adult in your extended family, who attended Can't State, that you were excited because UA beat Can't State for the wagon wheel, they would likely laugh at you and walk away. Is that a meaningful rivalry game? "Yahoo, our number 117-ranked team just beat the number 112-ranked team in the country!!"How about we aim higher. How about we expect that Can't State be a charity gimme game every year as this program ascends. How about we not cover for this failure of a season by wishing for a very unlikely victory over Can't State. And yes, my interest as a UA fan has been re-kindled by UA's previously apparent effort to drive this program into greener pastures. I was excited by Infocision, by the positioning of it as a cornerstone of the university footprint. I was convinced that these efforts would lead UA to something better than being a crappy MAC doormat. So far this year, there are no signs yet that this program is building toward bigger and better, but I want to see recruiting this off season, I want to see what Proenza does to open up the checkbook and bring in a credible college coaching staff, I want to see what Wistrcill does with scheduling. If the commitment to building something good does not continue many fans, including me, will likely slide into ambivalence regarding UA football. Fanhood unrequited is not worth giving over the long term. STZ

You have no clue what a "rivalry game" is.Really? Should the rivalry have meant something, some time, ever? Will you feel better about this season if the Zips somehow beat their cousins from Portage County?I think it's your definition that is in error. The following is a short list of classic "college rivalries". On MANY occasions, these games do not have a significant impact on the national or conference races.Purdue-IndianaWashington St-WashingtonCalifornia-StanfordKansas-MissouriBowling Green-ToledoOhio-MiamiPitt-West VirginiaIllinois-NorthwesternCincinnati-LouisvilleWhile it's cousin, the pro "rivalry", may live off the need for "meaningful" games, the college rivalry is far more rooted in history and tradition. When a (for instance) one-win Washington State Cougar team can defeat the winless Washington Huskies in the Apple Cup (happened last year) and players on both sides are physically and emotionally spent afterwards because this is the game that ALWAYS matters, that is the ESSENCE of a college rivalry. Would a Zip win over the flushes in any way make up for the "suckiness" we've already seen so far this year? Of course not. Would it be anywhere near enough to save JD's job? Highly unlikely. But the assertion that the battle for the Wagon Wheel is somehow a "trumped up" or bogus "rivalry" is just plain wrong. How about asking ANYONE who has participated in any of these clashes (players, coaches, administrators) over the years and see what they have to say about it.Would I feel better about the season as a whole if the Zips win? Of course, if only because I KNOW I will feel a whole lot worse if they lose. But also because I want the ship to be at least turned in the right direction. I don't care that JD will likely not be there next year. I want some positives for these kids to take into the off-season. Finally, this recruiting season could become very difficult, in spite of the Info factor, if we lose this game.Having said all of that, I think Can't will be a deserved 7 point (or more) favorite. And it's going to take better effort and execution than we've come to expect to beat them. But that's not going to stop me from rooting for the Zips with as much zeal as I can muster come Saturday.I suppose that I would scoff at most of those rivalries and would heap them into a giant bin of Who Cares. I'll take a shot at each:1) Indiana-Purdue. Yawn. Who could possibly care who wins this one, unless one is spoiling that rare 5-win season for the other?2) Washington-Washington State. What makes this a rivalry game? I don't know and I don't care.3) Cal-Stanford. There is a natural cultural reason for this rivalry. To parrot the typical NorCal fan, Cal is a state university, being part of the excellent UC system, where students envision themselves as winners in a meritocracy, while Stanford is the snooty snobby rich-kid school where daddy warbucks can buy your way in. 4) Kansas-Missouri. This one is likely cultural as well, and I would guess that there are political explanations dating to the civil war underpinning this rivalry.5) BGSU-Toledo. What has this game ever meant? Nothing, actually.6) Ohio-Miami. Something to do with Miami being the self-perceived best school ever, whilst Ohio seems to think that it matters that theirs was the first university in the state, or some such. Again, who cares?7) Pitt-WVU. This is pure McCoy and Hatfield, Appalachian rivalry. It probably also includes urban versus rural elements. I'd love to know more about this one and bet there is some old, bad blood between these two teams. 8) Illini-Northwestern. More of the state-versus-private snobbishness here. Once you get past that this game is another that means absolutely nothing, year in and year out.9) Cinci-Louisville. Probably some sort of quasi-North-versus-South thing going on here. I suppose there are those who work hard to generate some level of animosity for some of these games each year, but again, someone explain to me what it is about Can't State, other than their proximity, that serves as a legitimate reason for this rivalry. We all know many very similar types of people who went to both schools. I can't say I know even one Can't State family, or a UA family. I can see caring more about the "rivalry" on the basketball court, but in football? I will cheer with zeal for the Zips, but it won't be because I care more about Can't State as an opponent than any of the other MAC schools that trot in here.STZ

Yepper, I'm quite familiar with the wagon wheel. You'll notice that the wiki page on it is about three small paragraphs long. That's passion baby!Seriously, I understand that it's part of ZN orthodoxy to appear to hate the Can't State football program. I ask, why? The Hatfields and McCoys hated each other for reasons. OSU and Michigan hate each other because each had to get through the other to get to the Rose Bowl for decades. Browns and Stillers is a cultural thing at its core, Appalachia versus the old Western Reserve. Without simply sneering at me, how about explaining what exactly it is about Can't State that I'm supposed to hate. Their powerful football program? Their history of winning? Them getting in the way of our powerhouse program?STZ

Shouldn't a rivalry exist for some actual reason? Can't State and UA are near each other, but both of these programs have been so sad sack for so long that thinking about this game as any sort of real rivalry means nothing. I mean sure, I go along and throw in an occasional "Can't Sucks" on the boards for the fun of it, but can any of you actually say that you either hold genuine enmity for Can't State, or that you care more about this game than any other game, especially in a season like this? Think about it. Real sports rivalries exist for some cultural reason, or they exist because both teams were powers at some point and both teams knew that they would perennially have to beat the other to make it some next level. No non-contrived reasons exist to hate the Can't State football program. In fact the opposite is true. They've been so bad for so long that it's more logical to simply pity them. Same goes for UA, especially this year. How about we actually win something, you know, like a few games one of these years, before worrying about what's happening with Can't State?STZ

You have no clue what a "rivalry game" is.Really? Should the rivalry have meant something, some time, ever? Will you feel better about this season if the Zips somehow beat their cousins from Portage County?

On Rasor's blog he ends with:'Akron will next embark on "Mission: Salvage the Season." Can't State visits InfoCision Stadium on Saturday for a 3:30 kickoff. If the Zips lose this rivalry game, 2009 will be a failure of Biblical proportions.'/Vent Mode On/Sorry, but this season has been so completely disappointing and un-entertaining, a win against the Portage County heroes will mean less than nothing. The whole contrived rivalry thing with Can't State is stupid to begin with, when it comes to football. Real rivalries are for good programs, where the rivalry counts for something. It only means something when both teams are good, or have a tradition of being so. The rivalry between the Browns and Steelers has meant little for many years now because the Browns aren't worthy of claiming such a rivalry anymore. UA and Can't State are both bad football schools and have been so for many years. Neither of these sad-sack programs should ever boast a rivalry with anybody until they start to win consistently. I was hoping that UA, with the new stadium and investments related to it, would finally start to become a football program worthy of our positive attention. They aren't. This game with Can't State means absolutely nothing and if UA wins I won't cheer as if the win somehow magically makes this year any less terrible and disappointing than it's been./Vent Mode Off/STZ

Well then the Zips can boast the strength of consistency can't they? Man oh man, what a terrible team.

Oh how golden that shower would be.:-)STZ

NIU 49UA 7The Zips are a bad, bad team, and that's not including the injuries. I wish it weren't so, but they're going to be beaten badly the rest of the way. In related news I hear that JD is making great progress on the interior painting of his house as he preps it for sale.STZ

Wuddya mean JZ84? Had we played them we would now be vying for a perfect season! How cool would THAT be? STZ

FRENCH IS AROUND THE TEAM SEVERAL DAYS A WEEK......I'M SURE HE IS VIEWING THE FACT THAT THE TEAM HAS LOST THEIR BEST PLAYERS TO INJURIES AND THE FACT THAT JD HAS HIS KIDS PLAYING HARD......JD WILL KEEP HIS JOB!!! AND SO WILL THE REST OF YOU POUNDING ON HIM!!!!!!First, the all caps thing is the same as yelling netiquette-wise. I know you're a little full of rage, but the yelling in every post...is it necessary? Second, JD will not keep his job and if he does, he certainly shouldn't. Lastly, it is wonderful to know that you are confident that all of us will be keeping our jobs. Thank you for that vote of confidence. I will sleep better tonight. Oh, and one more thing, you are awesome! Before I forget, if you weren't already aware, the Ohio.com site includes a section under each story for comments from readers. You strike me as someone who would be a perfect fit as an Ohio.com poster. You should check it out. STZ

Ah, the joy of hearing from Grumplemintz. Is your theory that raging at fellow fans and posters who are tired of UA's football futility will somehow nullify their disappointment? You are awesome!STZ

That's where I draw the distinction regarding the merits of JD's alleged loyalty. In my mind, loyalty to the program and the university, from the head football coach, equals a burning desire to do whatever it takes to win on the field. The best coaches aren't particularly loyal to individual players or to other coaches on their staffs. They always put the team, and team success, ahead of everything else. For all of the twisted love of "the sweater vest" in Ohio, I have absolutely no doubt that his deal with players and coaches is that he is going to play the best players every week, the players and the schemes that give that team its best chance to win are the ones who are going to see the field. Players who were all-world in high school but don't produce or don't fit the scheme don't see the field, period. So, if the implication is that JD plays certain kids, who aren't right for the scheme, or aren't as good as others kids on the roster, I call that utterly misplaced loyalty and in the context of D-1 coaching, complete nonsense. Same goes for coaches on his staff.If your allusions to loyalty by JD are about his hard-workingness, hours spent in the team offices (which UA actually has now) and general boosterism for the program, I would again argue that those hours have simply been wasted. Hopefully for him personally, he has learned enough to catch a position on a college or professional staff after this year and earn a living, but he is a failure as a head college football coach. I actually don't care how hard working a head college football coach is. If he wins games and recruits good players, I'm happy. JD may even be a complete workaholic, but we've all known workaholics who weren't particularly productive. I'm convinced that JD could sell ice to eskimos, but he is a bad college head football coach.It's time for UA to decide what it wants. After they fire JD and this entire staff, it'll be time for Proenza to do a little soul searching. If the board wants to build a real football program, and decide that there exists the potential for success (some would doubt the potential for an upstart program in the veritable cradle of football, where there are already so many high-quality programs for kids to choose from) they will have to put more money into the program. They will have to pay (for the first time) for a high-quality head coach and staff, who will have to redouble their efforts to recruit high quality players. UA has gone part of the way with capital improvements, but that money will have been wasted if there is not a strong commitment made to the human beings who will build the program, basically from the ground up.STZLet's say the worst case scenario occurs and the Zips finish 1-10. Even in that situation, that certainly doesn't mean that the next coach will have to build "from the ground up". It's not like JD's teams of recent years have been involved in games like the Kansas State 65-0 debacle or the one where Miami's QB took a knee in scoring position JUST BEFORE HALFTIME. Things are bad, but in NO way is this program one that should be characterized as having to start over. The right coach can turn it around quickly. I'm fully convinced of that. The key will be having a smooth transition, one in which key players and recruits are retained.Well said. There is plenty of talent. We have spent too many years "building" at UofA. It's time to start winning.When people say "high quality recruits", the first thing that comes to my mind is a high quality recruit is a difference maker on the field. Sometimes difference makers struggle in the classroom. UofA needs to make a committment to bring in high quality players and support them academically. That's how really good teams get good. I'm not saying bring in a bad element, but let's keep the marginal players in school, help them get some cake degree and win some games.Agreed on the marginal player front, and it's a very dirty not-so-secret that major programs nurse marginal kids, some of whom are complete scum bags, through enough academic work to keep them eligible. That will be part of the decision-making process for Proenza going forward. He has the stadium and associated facilities, now will the board pay coaches actual D-1 salaries, will they bring in more marginal but talented kids and actually hold their hands? These things take major commitment and much money. I still believe that if this team had the talent that some posters believe, that talent would be winning more games. There are bright spots, but this team is losing badly at the very lowest D-1 level in the worst D-1 league. For me, the optimism comes with the new facilities. I want to believe that the administration has a plan. Would they really be foolish enough to sink as much money as they have into sports facilities and then not follow it up with the other commitments that need to be made to build a better program. It's possible but I'd like to give them more credit than that. I also believe that building a better, more competitive D-1 program will require more dirty work, more ethical dilemmas than we've been forced into in the past. Major college football programs are dirty places, because the burning desire to win breeds temptation and corruption. The board will have to spend more money and also deal with such issues for this program to truly progress. Will it happen?STZ

That's where I draw the distinction regarding the merits of JD's alleged loyalty. In my mind, loyalty to the program and the university, from the head football coach, equals a burning desire to do whatever it takes to win on the field. The best coaches aren't particularly loyal to individual players or to other coaches on their staffs. They always put the team, and team success, ahead of everything else. For all of the twisted love of "the sweater vest" in Ohio, I have absolutely no doubt that his deal with players and coaches is that he is going to play the best players every week, the players and the schemes that give that team its best chance to win are the ones who are going to see the field. Players who were all-world in high school but don't produce or don't fit the scheme don't see the field, period. So, if the implication is that JD plays certain kids, who aren't right for the scheme, or aren't as good as others kids on the roster, I call that utterly misplaced loyalty and in the context of D-1 coaching, complete nonsense. Same goes for coaches on his staff.If your allusions to loyalty by JD are about his hard-workingness, hours spent in the team offices (which UA actually has now) and general boosterism for the program, I would again argue that those hours have simply been wasted. Hopefully for him personally, he has learned enough to catch a position on a college or professional staff after this year and earn a living, but he is a failure as a head college football coach. I actually don't care how hard working a head college football coach is. If he wins games and recruits good players, I'm happy. JD may even be a complete workaholic, but we've all known workaholics who weren't particularly productive. I'm convinced that JD could sell ice to eskimos, but he is a bad college head football coach.It's time for UA to decide what it wants. After they fire JD and this entire staff, it'll be time for Proenza to do a little soul searching. If the board wants to build a real football program, and decide that there exists the potential for success (some would doubt the potential for an upstart program in the veritable cradle of football, where there are already so many high-quality programs for kids to choose from) they will have to put more money into the program. They will have to pay (for the first time) for a high-quality head coach and staff, who will have to redouble their efforts to recruit high quality players. UA has gone part of the way with capital improvements, but that money will have been wasted if there is not a strong commitment made to the human beings who will build the program, basically from the ground up.STZ

Cap'n, please, please tell us you didn't actually bet the house...