wadszip

Of course, you think I'd be advocating Antino as the starting 4, lol?

True that. Looking on the bright side, he is 6-7 and has good athleticism. Plus, there was a point in his sophomore season where he was knocking down open 3s at a near 50 percent clip and deep enough in the season where it made you raise your eyebrows, though, admittedly on a very small sample size. Right now, he's our starting 4. Think it has to look like this (though will likely change once Groce fills the empty spots) 1. Jimond 2. Utomi 3. Parrish (give him the nod since he's been around the team) 4. Jackson 5. Poke Actually, I'm kind of intrigued about Ivey at the point. Somebody brought up that Westbrook is his favorite player. If Groce can't land a Day 1 ready PG, might as well put Jimond there and tell him to attack the rim with reckless abandon like your idol does. Daniel at the 2 is probably is most natural position as well.

Aaron's always been my pick to win the Jimmy Conyers/Deji Ibitayo senior season award. If he doesn't put it together his senior year, I don't think it will because he didn't get the opportunity.

The biggest thing I learned from this is that Andy Toole knows talent. Robert Morris has never been a school I've followed (though remember them beating Kentucky in the first round of the NIT in a home game 4-5 years ago). But maybe we shouldn't be so quick to write of Josh Williams, Jon Williams and potentially LePear Toles as all being beneath Akron level if all end up at Robert Morris. Granted, we know Josh isn't below this level, but maybe he isn't taking quite the step down as we think. Overall, this article shows what I have believed since the grad transfer rule came about ... in basketball it is way more beneficial toward the high majors than it is the mid and low majors (exact opposite in football, outside that it generally allows high majors to recruit another high school lottery ticket, since you see very few go from G5 to P5). In basketball, the high majors are essentially trading their recruiting misses for guys who they originally also missed on (for a different reason), who have proven to be better than expected. With that, I don't think the rule is going away, so just have to live with it. To me, this rule has made it more important for mid majors to try to land high major transfers with 2-plus years left (even if it means your eating a scholarship for a year). Because if you are waiting for a high major guy to transfer after eating 3 years of eligibility, that person is probably transferring because they weren't nearly as good (or didn't develop) like people thought.

Basketball, more than any other sport, is about the relationship recruits establish with coaches rather than the school. So, I can't say I'm mad at either TDM or Hughes for following KD. At the same time, I'm with the consensus that those aren't exactly cornerstone guys to build an A-10 program around. At the same time, I doubt KD is selling them to coming there to be the man. To be perfectly honest, I would hold more of a grudge against Antino for leaving to go to LSU for his final year than if he would've also left to go to Duquesne. I can't imagine he has any ties to Will Wade. But who knows, there could be some Dambrot/Shaka/Wade inner workings on that one, and LSU is relatively close to Antino's hometown, so I won't even kill Antino if he makes that move, even though selfishly (and even for his sake) I think Akron is still the best fit for him.

My Missouri buddy (who I've now mentioned here several times) had nothing but great things to say about Rob and said that even in departing, he did it with class. I won't get into specifics, but he said that Fulford would've landed both 5-star Thomas Bryant (Indiana) and 4-star Ted Kapita (North Carolina State) if Kim Anderson didn't botch the recruitments. Both were Huntington Prep guys who played for Fulford. The Ted Kapita story I was told, if true (and I have no reason to believe it isn't), shows how out of touch Anderson was in recruiting. Lets just say, Anderson is probably the perfect candidate for the Oral Roberts position. An interesting note, before Kapita went to Huntington Prep, he played a year at Spire Institute in Geneva. Spire, with its world class facilities, is trying to become a player on the prep/post-secondary basketball scene. They have produced a bunch of D1 guys the past couple of years and have a couple highly ranked guys coming up. I'm not sure if Fulford has any ties there, or if there was any sort of bad blood with Kapita leaving to Huntington Prep, but it could be nice having a guy who is familiar with those prep school type programs since we now have one in our back yard that is producing a lot of college talent.

With all this talk about who is leaving, who will be on Groce's staff, who will be coming in has had me doing some Twitter stalking, lol. One thing that sticks out is Jimond Ivey and the leadership role he seems to be taking. There has been no talk of him waivering, even though out of potential transfers, he is probably at the top of the list (above both Antino and Noah) in landing at a high major. Instead, he not only was front and center at the Groce presser, has been taking the "this is now your team talk" to heart. The anti-OSU people will hate this, but this situation seems a lot like what it was when Tyvis Powell was the first player in the Buckeyes' football class to reconfirm his commitment to the school following the Jim Tressel fallout. True, that's not exactly apples-to-apples since Jimond is already established. But he's somebody, like Powell, if he wanted out, he had landing spots. But all you are seeing is somebody who appears to be committed to the school/program. Powell has become somewhat of a folk hero at Ohio State. I think Ivey has the chance at doing the same at Akron. I don't blame anybody for leaving, but it says something to me when you see somebody embracing what will be a challenging season. If Jimond sees this out and helps continues to build on the foundation that has been established, there is no doubt that he will go down as my all-time favorite Zips player, and I know there has never been a player I will be rooting for more than what I will be doing for Jimond next year.

Disagree on the first point. Pretty much anybody who was worth anything at Akron has gotten an opportunity in Europe, even on the higer/highest level. Antino is in that class and with him, it's not like Akron vs. LSU is going to make or break his NBA dreams ... he's not getting those regardless of school. I'm interested more in hearing what you are hearing. Everything that has come out the last couple of days has been that he is indeed a grad transfer. If not, and he still leaves, chalk that up to there is nothing Groce could've done to sway him, because it makes less than 0 sense for him to sit out a year.

I don't follow LSU hoops, but I see that they only had two seniors on the roster last year, and those two combined to average less than 3 points per game. Are they experiencing similar fallout as Akron? If not, I'm not sure it's beneficial for him to go to that situation despite LSU's mostly ancient basketball history (and one season with Ben Simmons where they couldn't even make the tournament). If he goes to LSU and only plays 10-15 minutes a game as a backup, guess what, his pro aspirations in Europe will largely be based off of what he did for three years ...at Akron. He would be taking a huge chance, especially since now he is all but guaranteed to play 30-plus minutes (and I would be its closer to 35) a game next year in Akron. With all that said, I think he is gone.

Also, if Eubanks and Dalton are on scholarship and the three recruits are on board, looks like that will mean four scholarships Groce can fill this year. If he can land two late high school recruits ... Pickett and maybe somebody else he has been recruiting at Illinois along with two grad transfers/JUCOs, I think he can still pull together a team that won't suffer too much drop off from what I expected for next season ... that was 18-19 wins and something like 10-8 in league play. EDIT: With the Fulford hire, I fully expect Frankie Hughes to come to Akron as a transfer. Since it is tougher to get a hardship now, he will probably sit out a year. So that would leave three open spots for guys who could come in next year ... And if Carlton Bragg somehow picks Akron, they can't turn him down either.

I'm guessing he is still on board just by looking at his twitter page. He still has the tweet he sent out in July announcing he is committing to Akron pinned to the top. He's been tweeting in the past couple of days so not like a dormant account. Also, looks like Isaiah Williams is also on board ... at least he still has the he is a G/F for the Akron Zips basketball team and a photo of the JAR as his background photo. His account is private so I can't tell if he is still active on Twitter. Finally, Eric Parrish, who has tweeted several times in the past couple of hours, still has him being a member the Zips basketball team with a photo of the team celebrating on his page. So, it looks like the incoming class is still in place as of right now. All have already signed LOIs so they would need to be released, but at least from that, it doesn't seem like any of them are considering asking for one.

https://writingillini.com/2017/04/08/illinois-basketball-javon-pickett-decommits-class-2017-still-special/ This guy speculates he could end up at Akron

I definitely agree with the first two graphs. I agree with most of the third graph, but can't say I will "thank" KD for leaving, though I do acknowledge it may have been for the best. Though As for the last sentence, I hope that isn't the case. Personally, I saw this as an 18 or so win team even with KD back (and that is without potentially losing Antino ... though I said that not knowing what kind of leader it appears Jimond Ivey is becoming). Anyway, this team was in for major philosophy shift even under KD. Now, they have to replace Big Dog/Kwan/Antino??? and learn a new system. I'm still going to anticipate this being a winning team, but it will hardly be anticipation like never before. The main thing I want to see is if this team is making progress and is playing better at the end of league season than it did in the beginning. There will be growing pains next year. We knew that was going to happen before this coaching change even came about.

His stock is definitely not that low as a player (he was a contributor to a top 10 ranked team as a sophomore ... in a program under Bill Self that recruits a lot of top 50 guys and also has a lot of top 50 guys who don't shine until they are upperclassmen).

From what I remember, Bell probably would've ended up at Kent State if OSU didn't offer him pretty late in the process. He really didn't show much (outside of being tall and being on a super talented team) in high school. I'd still take him if a spot for him was open. But don't see him as a priority. Just of the Ohio transfers, I'd put them as: 1. Bragg 2. Donnal 3. Hughes 4. Bell And I'm sure there will be more instate guys (from high majors) in the near future you can add to this list.

Definitely ver interesting. On one hand, you could say Akron was on the list because KD made the Zips "marquee." On the other hand, if that was the case, then Duquesne (especially since other A-10 schools were judged) should've been A+ ... Instead, not even mentioned, when three other schools in that league who changed coaches were. What I take from that is kind of in the middle. Akron is a good job due to KDs foundation and its recruiting area (but I don't think even anybody here would try to pass it off as "marquee") and KD, while a good coach, did indeed leave to go to a dead-end job ... even if it meant a negligible pay raise. I don't want this taken as a shot at KD ... I've flat out said I wish he would've retired at Akron and would've fine if that happened, even if the next 7 years were "only" like the first 13. But I do think KD's decision may really have been the shot in the arm the school needed to take things to the next level. While KD did a great job of making this a program with a very high floor, he was set in his ways and though reluctantly adjusted later on, it limited the ceiling. Now, we may have a guy, who even if the floor is lowered a bit because of the unknown (and the weak 34-30 argument detractors will argue), is somebody who will raise the ceiling of this program because: 1. It is established and 2. He is a guy who has a long track record of recruiting talent and is at a place where he is going to be tripping over talent within 50 miles of campus. I'll admit if I'm wrong, but I think Groce will do (even if he bolts after three years) what most of us were hoping KD would do ... in capitalizing on what was in place and potentially taking the program to a VCU/Wichita/Butler type status (all programs who had a guy come in and lay the foundation, then hire another guy to build on it to the point where it is still an elite job even after that second coach (third in VCU's case) leaves. Maybe we were hoping to be Gonzaga and KD to be our Mark Few, but that isn't (and never was) going to happen, so lets embrace this opportunity.

While Groce "only" got a B- ... I'm guessing the only reason Akron was on this list of "marquee" (that's a line in the article ... from USA Today) was because of Groce. The only other non high majors acknowledged were A-10 schools Dayton/UMass/VCU. That alone makes the hire an A+ .... Also, interesting Duquesne and KD absent from this article.

That depends on who you are playing/beating. I think the overall point of people saying "losing more games" is they would rather play tougher competition even if it means they don't hit that "21" magic number, but it has them more prepared for March. Plus, the college basketball works (where strength of schedule is the biggest determining factor in rankings), you can actually win 18-19 games and be ranked significantly higher than a team who won 26 ... just look to about any 18 win high major this year (say Illinois) as proof. Of course, those schools have the advantage of playing 10-plus games against other top 50-100 types in league play. I'm not advocating playing 10 in the OOC portion, but the Zips should try to get 4-5 of those ... then hope the MAC can produce 1-2 more.

FWIW, Donnal is from the Toledo area (but that could make the Rockets tough to beat if he wants to come to the MAC). Groce, though, probably knows him as well as anybody. http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400839257 BTW, looking at that box score. Groce was also done in by his former recruit (Caris LeVert)

Mine has always been Final Four (and if you get that far, you might as well think national championship). VCU and George Mason have recently done it out of the Colonial, Wichita State has done it out of the MVC and Butler did it twice out of the Horizon, so it's not an impossible dream (won't include Gonzaga this year because that is a different program than the others were).

Exactly. Which is why I don't think he is rushing the current UA players to make a decision because he knows this, for the most part, is a lost recruiting cycle for high school kids. There were a couple 3-stars from Illinois who he showed some interest in who, according to 247, have failed so far to receive firm high-major offers (listed in the possible targets thread). So maybe one of them could get in the picture. But there are absolutely no unsigned high school targets in Ohio that he should be concerned about, IMO. Plus, a lot of the unsigned JUCOs will see how signing day shakes out before making their choices. And there likely will be a new wave of transfers (some being grad transfers who can play right away) in the days/weeks after signing day. So, while seeing that signing day is next week, on the surface, it makes it seem like he's going to have to rush to put his roster together in the next couple days, he really has a bit more time to work with. Still, I imagine we'll have a grasp for what next year's roster will be by the end of the month.

Alright, one more. And this is another extreme longshot, but since Mark Gottfried was fired at North Carolina State, I'll put this out here (even though I think Kevin Keatts will definitely utilize his talent), but if for whatever reason it doesn't work out, here's Markell Johnson. Remember this kid was supposed to be a part of this year's recruiting class, but took summer courses to graduate early and reclassify to 2016, so these highlights are from junior year at East Tech. He averaged 4-2-2 as a should-be high school senior as a freshman in the ACC. If nothing else, these clips show the type of athletes that Groce can potentially work just locally. Outside of a couple of exceptions, something that was a foreign concept for Zips fans under KD. But KD did get Ivey, who if you watch his HS tape, it should be no surprise that he looks to be a future All-MAC player. That talent was evident.

BTW, since this came up right after the Carmon video from Youtube I posted. Here is Andrews: Do not want to see him at Kent (but for his sake, do hope he can play D1 ball ... preferably at Akron). Overall, I'm not surprised why Groce would see Akron as a position where he can either rebuild his stock or do what KD mentioned in the past .... actually stick around and build Akron into the "Gonzaga of the East." It's tapes like these that makes it laughable when OU fans say it is easier to recruit there than it is Akron ... Yeah, because Southeast Ohio has dozens of guys like Andrews, Carmon, Ivey, etc., every year in their backyard.

I'll put this here (instead of the recruiting board) since signing day is right around the corner and Groce will likely have a couple spots to fill. I'm trying to see who may be on the radar. I'll start with two guys I mentioned on other threads: 1. Frankie Hughes: He won't help next year, but guard is going to be a major need even if Antino has a change of heart and Noah decides to stay, since they are both seniors. Since he's from Garfield Heights and had interest in Akron out of high school, he could make sense. This one would not surprise me at all. 2. Kipper Nichols: Groce got him to Illinois after he asked out of his release just prior to enrolling as a freshman at Tulane (he was recruited to Tulane by fellow Cleveland native and former Kent Stater Anthony Wilkins, who is now an assistant at Tulane). Since Nichols, while not losing a year of eligibility, did lose a year by going to Illinois, so who knows if he wants to sit out another year. But it could make sense if he wants to leave Illinois to come back home and play for his coach from this past season. Nichols showed some promise (had a couple double digit scoring games this past year in Big Ten play). 3. LePear Toles: This one has been discussed, but since he's another local kid, I wont' rule him out. Outside of a pretty vague CantonRep.com article the other week, haven't heard much lately on him. Then, there is: 4. Devon Andrews: This is a shot in the dark. If KD was still around, no way he touches Andrews. But with Groce, I would put him back on the radar, though, I've kind of lost track of what his path has been. He committed to Kent out of high school and to nobody's surprise was academically ineligible (then he had an arrest that clouded his future even more). But he seemed to still enroll at Kent at some point, but something happened where he went to a JUCO in Kansas, where he averaged 22-6-2 this past year. Anybody know what his situation is? Doing a google search and don't see anything definitive that he's heading back to Kent. He's a kid that has legit NBA-type talent. 5. Anthony Carmon: This is an even bigger shot in the dark, but the kid was such a talent at East Tech (along with North Carolina State's Markell Johnson led the Scarabs to the D1 Final Four a couple years ago). I read something out of HS he attended a JUCO (I think in Kansas). Then saw that this past year he was at Tri-C Metro, but can't find anything more on him. So who knows what his academic standing is, but if he's able to qualify, he has "John Groce at Akron" written all over him. You can't watch that and with a straight face say that he can't play at Akron ... when Tavian Dunn-Martin got significant minutes on a team that won the regular season title. After these Northeast Ohio kids, I wanted to look to see who Groce was recruiting at Illinois ... Looks like some intriguing names. http://illinois.247sports.com/Season/2017-Basketball/Targets I'm going past the "commits" and the "interested" category since those guys all look like high majors. But in the "looks" category, some 3-star kids that look like have other mid-major offers: 1. Charles Payton, a 6-6 SF out of Bloomington, Ill. (offers UIC and Illinois State) 2. Manny Peterson, a 6-8 PF out of Chicago (offers from Bowling Green and Green Bay) 3. Bol Riek, a 7-2 C out of Naperville, Ill. (offer from New Mexico State) None of those three guys seem to be out of reach and it seems like Groce has some relationship with all three, since they were on Illinois' radar.