skip-zip

I don't think so. They aren't going to base a job offer on one game. Completely agree. No coach is a great coach or a bad coach, based on whether his team won or lost any single game.

I'm not really understanding why an AD would be interested in someone after a good season, but not be interested in them after a bad season. With Winters, we're talking about a guy who's in his mid-50s, right? He's been coaching a long, long time. He didn't just suddenly become a terrible coach a few years ago because he had a 2-8 season, or vice versa. During the course of his time at Wayne, his conference standing has bounced dramatically up and down. I'm quite certain that his ability to coach isn't changing that dramatically from year to year. Ask Arkansas basketball fans how they feel about using the "just had a good season" logic to hire Heath a few years back.

We don't know what's happening. But, I just hope that we made an effort to get the best coach possible. If we did, and had to settle for Winters, I can live with that. IF we didn't, and we actually thought that a D-II coach with his record was our best option, and lost 3 weeks of valuable time waiting for him, I will be very dissappointed as well.

Well said. Akron isn't going to be a place for a guy who was head coach at OSU for a season to come, regardless of the circumstances. Typically, the MAC/Akron is a good fit for someone who is a long time assistant/short time coordinator to break in. Or, a guy like Winters or Kelly who did their time in lower divisions. Nobody wants to hear it, but the Akron job would have been a step down for Fick. Last season was his chance to audition for a CUSA job. Given the cards he was dealt, he did a pretty good job. At the rate Pitt is going, they might just be CUSA quality if they don't watch out. Pitt is a step up for Fick and a good opportunity. If he proves himself, he could always go back to OSU in a few years when UM has had enough. Come on. Not only did he look lost, but he also failed to identify who clearly was his top QB until mid-season. A few suspensions still left them with more talent than most teams they faced this year, yet he "led" that talent to a 6-6 record. He almost lost to a MAC team, almost lost to Indiana, got blown out by a bad Miami team, and showed what he accomplished during the course of the season by finishing the season with 3 consecutive losses, including Purdue. They plummeted from a #17 ranking to not getting a single Top-25 vote during the course of his run as coach. If this was an "audition", it certainly didn't go well, to say the least.

I know people are still waiting for the big breakout after 2+ seasons. Some went out on a limb after the January Ken+ game last year, thinking that was the moment, and they were wrong. I'm again seeing glimpses that make me want to believe that he's getting much better, and more consistent. But, last night was not one of those examples. To me, that was just a guy doing what he should be doing when he's a head taller than most of the defenders that are competing against him. But, I still think it could be encouraging if he starts to put up big numbers against those inferior teams anyway, since he hasn't always done that in the past. More Game Thoughts: Nice to see 20+ assists in a game. That;s the way it should be. Shows me we're working together to score points. I'm getting more and more dissapointed with what Brett and Nik are showing as seniors. I'm seeing more and more up and down individual performances. Not one player on this team is good from game to game right now. Hopefully, that means we just have a ton of depth, with anyone being able to produce on any given night. We'll see.

Interesting quote in there.... When other MAC teams were beating Akron senseless the past two years, it looked to me like it was a coaching issue as well as a talent issue. I think you're right. It was some combination of both. I know some people like to bash on ICoach, but I believe he was seriously lacking in adequate personnel in a number of areas. He may have been a bad coach, but no coach can win with bad players.

I like that analogy better than my own.

Yes they would, in a heartbeat. Especially if that person already had a degree. Why? Because the person already knows how to hire people and manage them. The interesting thing about places with bigger budgets, they hire people to handle counting the larger pile of beans. Do you know something I don't? I'm talking about the overall challenge of managing something dramatically larger than what someone managed previously. You don't see these things happen in the business world, but maybe athletics is different. It's just a point of discusssion.

I've heard so much about the details of his contract that I am even more confused than ever. But, even though we might not know the exact details, we do know that ICoach getting a new job relieves us of a nice chunk of what we owe him. And that's great news. Thank you Charlie Weis

I saw the same article that mentioned Wayne State’s football budget is $195,000. I believe it was in on a Crain’s Business web site which won’t allow you to provide a link. But if you Google “wayne state” and “195000”, you’ll find it. For most schools that offer football, the football budget is usually around 30%-50% of the overall athletic budget. If we assume 30% for Wayne State, then their overall athletic budget is in the neighborhood of 195,000/0.3 = $650,000. How does this compare with other D-II schools? I found this information on Minnesota-Crookston. They are in the Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference (NSIC), the same conference as St Cloud State and Minnesota-Duluth, two teams Wayne State has beaten in the playoffs. The link indicates Minnesota-Crookston’s overall athletic budget in 2006 was $1,700,000. The link also mentions that this is the lowest in the NSIC. Finally, the link state’s the average overall budget in the NSIC is $2,600,000. For another glimpse into D-II athletic budgets, I found this information on North Alabama (Terry Bowden’s school, which is contemplating a move to FCS). This link states that North Alabama’s overall athletic budget will need to increase by $3,000,000 to a total of $7,500,000 for a possible move to FCS. Thus, the current (D-II) budget is $4,500,000. What does all of this mean? I’d say it’s pretty clear that Winters has been able “do more with less” at WSU. That seems like a pretty attractive quality to have for a prospective head coach at UA. I’ll throw in this caveat. The $195,000 football budget number for WSU seems low to me. But even if it’s double or triple that, the conclusions remain the same. WSU gets a lot of bang for the buck with Winters. Have you ever been in politics? I see you found a way to try to turn the budget issue into a positive for the candidate you support Knowing that even the lowest level D-1A programs have to manage a budget that's well into the millions, it's a valid concern to wonder if even a high level D-II coach is capable of making such a huge leap in terms of simply managing the program. If anything, the analogy I used was an understatement. Would a Wal-Mart hire someone to run their store who was currently running a mom-and-pop corner store? It's definitely something to think about.

I never saw these guys play in high school myself. But, when I learned that they were choosing Ken+ and Akron, I asked some old high school coaching friends for their opinions about him. And I posted that information here. It was the consensus at the time that Henninger was the better basketball player. And although I wished that we could have beaten Ken+ for the "better player", I actually was very comforted when I learned about Egner's particular skill set, because I felt he would fit well into our system. And at this point, I don't see Henninger doing anything yet that convinces me that we really missed out on anything.

Hey DIG....see what I mean? Please allow me to present...............EXHIBIT A

Good post, Dave. You know how much I harp about wanting to see more information sharing as opposed to arguing on this board. Speaking of information, I thought this was pretty shocking, and a great example of the dramatic difference between running a D-II program, and a D-1A program: Someone pointed out an article to me in a Detroit publication in which it says that Wayne State's football budget is only 195k. WOW. I guess I wasn't too far off when I used the old analogy that it's like running a corner grocery store vs. running a Wal-Mart.

Great to see the humor acknowledged and appreciated. I hope you're also open-minded enough to understand that your description of your reaction to Winters might strike some as just as emotional in a negative way as those you are calling out for being emotional in their optimism for Winters. If being part of a group that fails at something precludes that person from ever being successful under different circumstances, then there are no qualified candidates. In fact, Winters' work at OC appears to be the most successful part of the failed staff that lives on so vividly in your memory. Dave, did you have to ruin my good mood so fast? I was just starting to have fun again Let me put it this way. Ever since Owens left town, there's been a faction of people in Akron who have wanted him to fill every job opening we've had. I run into them in business meetings, games, parties, etc. Wayne could be having a good year or a bad year. It doesn't matter. I'll see people screaming his name every time something isn't going right for us on the field. And in most cases, I'd come to find that it is a friend of his from high school, played for him, etc. So, I think the argument for him is personal for many people. I'm sure this doesn't include everyone in his corner. But, I think you get where I'm coming from, and why I notice so much emotion in those who support him. In my case, I just don't think "Akron Guy" is even remotely a good enough reason to bring him here. I also don't think winning a few more games than he's lost at a D-II school may even be good enough to warrant a D-1AA job yet. And I don't think you can just give him a pass for how badly we failed during the near-decade in which he was the head coach's right hand man. And maybe most of all, I don't think coaches who are highly regarded in the big leagues fall down two levels into an abyss like Wayne State for nearly a decade by accident. I guess I feel like I have to kick up the volume a little bit when arguing against his supporters. I'm sure it's a result of my experiences with the blind loyalty that's displayed towards him, no matter what he's accomplishing in any given year. Beyond that, I just want us shooting for the stars with this kind of hire. Maybe we can't get a star candidate right now. Maybe we are going to have to settle for someone like Winters. And it frustrates me as a fan.

Very good. Very creative. I laughed too. Vehemently is in my vocabulary. But, I don't believe I've used it in this case. I think that the folks in favor of his hiring are much more emotional. It's just sad for me to think that my alma mater would even consider a D-II coach, with a mediocre record, who was part of a staff who failed here once before. I'm an old guy. I've been around Akron Athletics a long time, and I'd like to think that after 25 years of D-1A football, we should be able to do much, much better than that. Maybe we can't. And it frustrates me, and I am going to voice my frustration. But, thanks for the laugh. I needed that. We disagree on this issue. But we agree on many more. Vehemently just seemed to flow pretty well. I just couldn't resist and I'm glad you're taking it in the spirit in which it was intended Absolutely. Actually, I think we need to inject a little humor on here more often to remind each other that this is supposed to be fun, and that we all want the same results for the Zips. We just disagree sometimes on how to get there.

Very good. Very creative. I laughed too. Vehemently is in my vocabulary. But, I don't believe I've used it in this case. I think that the folks in favor of his hiring are much more emotional. It's just sad for me to think that my alma mater would even consider a D-II coach, with a mediocre record, who was part of a staff who failed here once before. I'm an old guy. I've been around Akron Athletics a long time, and I'd like to think that after 25 years of D-1A football, we should be able to do much, much better than that. Maybe we can't. And it frustrates me, and I am going to voice my frustration. But, thanks for the laugh. I needed that.

Maybe they can't get the nickname correct because most people have never even heard of the school? Yep, that's the kind of place where you go to look for your next coach, if you are a D-1A school looking to make an "impact hire" and get the college football world to start paying attention to Akron again. I can already see and hear the collective YAWN as the press releases are received across the country.

There is a former coordinator out there who once had his offenses in the Top 10 nationally. This former coordinator has also taken a laughing stock from one of the worst teams in their division to the brink of playing in a national championship game. This coordinator has also coached in the MAC so he understands how difficult it is to win somewhere like Akron. Rumor has it, he has close ties to Akron as well. Not another William Riker. 1-9 and 3-7. He was a whopping 4-16 in his first 2 years. How does he follow that? He goes 6-5 in year 3 and follows that up with an impressive 3-8. I am sorry, but if our new coach is 13-29 after 4 years he is as good as fired. We would be screaming from the rooftops to get him out of here. Oh yeah...and this isnt against the SEC, it is D2 ball. I've thought about this as well. He would have never made it to year 5 if he was in the big leagues. Then, just two seasons ago, he finished in 8th place in his conference. How would that have been viewed by Akron fans? And this is the resume of someone you leap-frog up two levels to the big time? When he was a huge part of a staff that failed at this once before? If some people insist that we pull out the good time periods of his time at Wayne, it's fair to talk about the bad periods as well. And some of it was very recent.

True. But can you imagine the firestorm of press coverage that would follow his return to a D-1A program? If there's any chance of getting a big name, with big-time head coaching experience, I'd say that a guy who has already been here at some point in his career would be a logical candidate to pursue. Bowden may be just the jumpstart we need to get our program rolling again. I can see the "Welcome Back" marketing theme already. And maybe we can borrow the old theme from "Welcome Back Kotter" as the background music to the YouTube videos that are sure to follow.

Who was the only one to mention Narduzzi in the Wheel of Fortune thread? The idea that they would hire an only-recently-successful small college coach over a guy with Narduzzi's resume? That's laughable, and predictable. BINGO!! That's why I keep having a problem with the words "Safe Choice" coming from the Winters supporters. How can that possibly be defined as a "Safe Choice"?

I think you hit the nail on the head with this line. This is the basis of my fear right now, and pretty much the opinion I am getting from almost every Zips fan that I know personally. I also keep seeing the words "safe choice" from Winters/Owens ex-players/supporters. How can hiring a D-II coach, with barely a .500 record, be a "safe choice"? Because there's a faction of people in Akron who won't criticize the decision? Screw that. I want the Best Choice!! I've said this before. But, if some people on here want to settle for a D-II coach who is an "Akron Guy", we might as well bring back Owens himself. He's also been consistently successful as a D-II coach. And he happens to have plenty of D-1A head coaching experience under his belt too.

Whoaaaaa. Someone asked a question about who Winters might POSSIBLY look to add to a hypothetical staff at Akron. Don't pin MY LAME A$$ attempt to research said staff on Winters. Why don't you wait to see if he's hired and assembles his own to do that. And by "barely above the high school" level, I assume you mean D-II. Now, not only are head coaches at D-II worthless pieces of $hiT but so are any and all the assistants who work at that level. If that's your opinion, so be it. It's definitely not mine. Go Zips! Well...the good thing is Toledo will suck. Matt Campbell started in D3. Key Word: STARTED

Then why does it appear that you spent your evening digging up everything positive that you could find to support Winters? His D-1A "accomplishments"? Those "accomplishments" must have been pretty incredible if they landed him a job at a D-II school in the pits of Detroit. Apparently myself and 120 D-1A schools all missed an opportunity a few years ago. I don't agree with you that he should be a D-1A coach, for many reasons. What else do you want me to say?

Au contraire. He's somehow managed to get Buckzip and skip-zip to wholeheartedly agree on something. That's worthy of a Nobel Peace prize nomination Ha Ha !! I knew someone would notice that. But, I don't feel like he's done nothing. I just don't see any way I'd move the guy up two divisions. And I don't see any other activity out there in coaching searches that would make me feel any differently. Most Zips fans I know personally agree as well. That's fine that some people like him. I see a lot of emotion in those who support him, which I think is clouding some people's thoughts. I wouldn't even consider picking him to coach our football team.

Skip, so you're calling me out? LOL I guess because your belief that D-II is too low for a coach to be "significant" was blown out of the water by me and everyone else. I don't need to substantiate anything because all coaching changes are "rumors" until they are official. You look on certain boards and you talk to certain people offline and offrecord and you can find out who has asked Wayne St for permission to talk to him this year. I'm tired of certain elements making up reasons why Winters is somehow not qualified or "below" us. None of you want to face what reality is. Reality is that their our 30-40 coaches in levels below FBS and FCS that are great coaches, outstanding coaches that would succeed at our level with no problem at all, but they are overlooked. The real question is why are they overlooked. Is it because they only have to recruit 38 people instead of 85? Is it because they have to find a way to win with budgets that are less than what our soccer team operates on? Or is because this group of coaches shares something in common with Mr. Winters that seems to be a near automatic disqualifier for FBS football? You guys figure it out. g-mann. Let me end this right here, since you keep getting off track challenging my beliefs about D-II football over and over again. You state that 4 or 5 schools have shown interest in Winters as a fact. Including Arkansas State, Toledo, and some "bigger schools". Where did you see this or hear this? I must be out of the loop since I don't have your "Off Record" and "Offline" sources. Even if it is indeed just a "rumor". It's better than what I see being mentioned anywhere right now, which is nothing.