Looking Ahead to '09

[Captain Kangaroo]

Now that the season is essentially over, it is time to begin making your case for how to turn the Zips into a winner in 2009. Despite the common sentiment to fire JD, that seems to me to be the absolute wrong direction.Looking back to 2007, everyone was on Moorhead's case. Justifiably so. Our offense was pathetic.Fast-forward to 2008, and you can see the offensive issues were decisively addressed. Despite the Zips penchant for crippling late game offensive gaffes, the offense as-a-whole has been one of the best in what has become a very offense-oriented MAC.Offensive improvements -> 2007 to 2008Pass offense - From 11th to 6thPass efficiency - From 13th to 7thRush offense - From 11th to 4thFirst downs - From 12th to 4th4th down conversions - From 13th to 4thScoring offense - From 10th to 2ndTotal offense - From 12th to 4thThe Zips have improved from the bottom 1/3rd to the top 1/3rd in virtually every key offensive category. The O-line has been solid, the WR's drop-riddled yet explosive (a dramatic upgrade from Jabari and <insert journeyman here>), RB has been phenomenal despite losing Alex Allen and B Will from 2007. With 90% of the 2008 offense returning, Torrence, Martin and Allen in the backfield...2009 looks VERY promising. Defense? I'll save myself the agony of sifting through the past 10 years and focus on 2007 & 2008 -ZipsScoring Defense - From 7th to 10thPass Defense - From 7th to 8thRush Defense - From 7th to 11thTotal Defense - From 7th to 12thPass Defense Efficiency - From 6th to 12thOpponents 1st Downs - From 4th to 13thSacks by - From 10th to 12thOpponent 4th Down Conversions - From 1st to 13thThe Zips have regressed from the mediocre to pretty much rock-bottom in virtually every key defensive category. No individual Zip has more than 2 interceptions in 2008. By comparison, a one-legged John Mackey had 3 last season and Reggie Corner had 7.While I've been critical of Jacq's performance, specifically in crucial late-game situations…at least the guy comes through once in a blue moon. He, and the offense, have played well enough to win 7-8 games if our defense was 2007's edition.The defense has shown up…maybe once, if you count Army. You could even call the Cincinnati game "good." But overall, the D has been curb-stomped in 2008. And Zips fans are flat out tired of bad defense…Did we lose Ryan Bain in '08? Sure. And that hurt. But that doesn't let the D off the hook. Our talent of the defensive side of the ball should place us somewhere in the middle of the MAC. Yet year-in-year-out we can't get to the QB. Sacks seem to occur once-per-month? Bryan Williams is probably our best athlete on defense…a DB, he's got one INT? Against OU he had 0 solo tackles and 3 assisted tackles. That's it? That pretty much has been his stat line each game in '08. He's been invisible.Our defense makes ZERO key stops. Wreaks ZERO havoc on the opposing QB. And we can't get an interception to save our lives (due in large part to the lack of a pass rush).I look at 2009 and I see a lot of promise. On both sides of the ball. Offensively? That's already been discussed. Defensively? On the D line we return Sewell (Jr.), Lemon (Jr), Rash (So.), Marcoux (So.), Odofin (Jr), Stewart (So), Harvey (So), Hazime (So.), Pendleton (Sr), Shead (So.) and Marquinn Davis (So). I don't think it is too crazy to expect Bain (Sr) to be in the mix too. That's TWELVE D-linemen!! Switch to the 4-3!!! Hell, we could go with a 5-2! There's NO EXCUSE not to pressure the QB in '09!Losing Grant and Williams @ LB won't be a total killer. Thomas has been decent, and lots of young talent is ready to go in '09. Williams, Fobbs, Wagner, Schuler etc. Adding a stud JUCO LB wouldn't hurt either.The secondary? Jalil Carter rules. Guys like Kabir, Laube, Campbell, etc play well. Graham is returning. Waller looks promising and Jared Province, DaVon Moore (yes, the slow-healing DaVon Moore), and Byrd are ready to go in '09.In summary…because I'm running out of time…our team in 2009 is going to be very strong. IF we can assemble a decent defense. And if we can properly utilize those guys. THAT's where it seems the problems rested with this year's defense. Is it possible to expect Fleming to perform a defensive makeover similar to what happened with the offense 2007 -> 2008? Can our young, numerically deep DL improve on it's own, simply hitting the weights in the off-season and becoming a year older? I guess. But that's a big leap of faith for me. I would be shocked if both the 3-3-5 and Fleming return for 2008. Might a change cost us Will Fleming? Sure. But I could live with it. I can't live with the ball shoved down our throat week after week…of every opposing lame QB looking like an "All American" (credit to Frank Stamms)…of the Zips scoring 40 points, yet losing. JD ain't going anywhere. He shouldn't. His early recruiting debacles are behind him. He's got a ton of talent and a team that, on paper, should be a favorite to win the MAC East next season. But something needs to be done for this team to reach it's potential in 2009. They say "It's good for the foot soldiers to see a dead General every so often." Dumping the 3-3-5 is a great start. But a General may need to go too…tough off-season decisions for JD. Mack too. After the Temple game, I will be VERY interested to see how JD plans to address the defensive problems in 2009. Someone's going to ask that question, and demand an answer, right?

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

I will happily accept the offense as is, even with the WR drops and the occasional Bad-Jacq. I will be mightily disappointed if the D resembles this year's terrible unit though, going into InfoSumma. They have regressed if anything as the season has gone forward. GO ZIPS!SeeTeeZip

[ZachTheZip]

Ths all hinges on whether JD feels that Fleming is capable of replacing the 3-3-5. If he can, keep him. If he can't, well... there are plenty of options out there for a defensive coach.What makes me wonder, though, is if it is Fleming or his position coaches that don't understand how to fix the problem. Do we even have position coaches?

[GP1]

Good post CK.I have always found the simple solution to be the best solution. The 3-3-5 has to go. If JD is not willing to let the 3-3-5 go, then he has to go. If he agrees to bag it, then he stays. Hopefully his new defense would not be as stupid as the 3-3-5. Actually, the only thing more stupid than our defense would be a 2-1-8 defense.Fleming can install another type of defense or he can go. I don't care which. This isn't the guys first coaching job and he has coached other types of defenses. You Browns fans need to get used to the fact that JD is going to be back next year and it will probably be a good thing. How do I know that? Follow the logic:1. Browns fans are idiots.2. Everything Browns fans want blows up in their faces.3. A ton of Browns fans post on this board and are Zips fans. This means there are a lot of idiots posting on this board.4. A ton of Browns/Zips fans want the coach fired.5. Firing JD will blow up in our faces. Don't take the rest of us down with you Browns fans.Like I said, the simple solution is usually the best. JD stays unless he agrees to get rid of this silly defense he runs.

[tbozeglav]

Good post CK.I have always found the simple solution to be the best solution. The 3-3-5 has to go. If JD is not willing to let the 3-3-5 go, then he has to go. If he agrees to bag it, then he stays. Hopefully his new defense would not be as stupid as the 3-3-5. Actually, the only thing more stupid than our defense would be a 2-1-8 defense.Fleming can install another type of defense or he can go. I don't care which. This isn't the guys first coaching job and he has coached other types of defenses. You Browns fans need to get used to the fact that JD is going to be back next year and it will probably be a good thing. How do I know that? Follow the logic:1. Browns fans are idiots.2. Everything Browns fans want blows up in their faces.3. A ton of Browns fans post on this board and are Zips fans. This means there are a lot of idiots posting on this board.4. A ton of Browns/Zips fans want the coach fired.5. Firing JD will blow up in our faces. Don't take the rest of us down with you Browns fans.Like I said, the simple solution is usually the best. JD stays unless he agrees to get rid of this silly defense he runs.

Are you a steelers fan? I take offense to everything you have said in regards to browns fans. Youve got balls say that crap about Browns fans

[GP1]

Good post CK.I have always found the simple solution to be the best solution. The 3-3-5 has to go. If JD is not willing to let the 3-3-5 go, then he has to go. If he agrees to bag it, then he stays. Hopefully his new defense would not be as stupid as the 3-3-5. Actually, the only thing more stupid than our defense would be a 2-1-8 defense.Fleming can install another type of defense or he can go. I don't care which. This isn't the guys first coaching job and he has coached other types of defenses. You Browns fans need to get used to the fact that JD is going to be back next year and it will probably be a good thing. How do I know that? Follow the logic:1. Browns fans are idiots.2. Everything Browns fans want blows up in their faces.3. A ton of Browns fans post on this board and are Zips fans. This means there are a lot of idiots posting on this board.4. A ton of Browns/Zips fans want the coach fired.5. Firing JD will blow up in our faces. Don't take the rest of us down with you Browns fans.Like I said, the simple solution is usually the best. JD stays unless he agrees to get rid of this silly defense he runs.

Are you a steelers fan? I take offense to everything you have said in regards to browns fans. Youve got balls say that crap about Browns fans

Yes I am.You should be more offended by the Browns.You can't argue with the logic.....Let's stick with the Zips.

[#1 rowdy]

Flemming would have no trouble switching the defensive scheme. He didn't use the 3-3-5 until he came to Akron. Coach Wallerstat taught him the defense even though Flemming is the D-Cord. Since Wally left our defense has been worse. How do you expect a coach to teach a system he didn't teach before coming here? Flemming is a great coach but maybe the system is holding him back a little.

[tbozeglav]

I have come to accept the fact that the Browns have their issues and will disappoint me from time to time. It can be embarassing, but it comes with the territory and I am okay with it. I love the browns and always will. Its fine. I'd rather be a fan of the browns than the sh!tsburg steelers. You steelers fans have your heads shoved so far up your own a$$es you probably can see what you're thinking.I don't want JD gone... at all. I just want the 3-3-5 gone. I want JD to lead us into the new stadium. I want him in the locker room. Its everything else I want changed.

[Z-P]

We're coming into the time zone for the Brookhart tenure where lots of coaches "flatten out" and lose enthusiasm for the job.............and it tells.My intuition tells me this is not the case for JD however................the new stadium, the return of a solid offense, the outpouring of community support for the 09 season (based mostly uponthe new facilities).............all these things will fire him and his staff up and result in a great season (I hope).Just a gut feel..............

[Buckzip]

I would even be ok if we switched to a 3-4 defense. I prefer a 4-3 base, but a 3-4 is doable. If we keep with the 3-3-5 it is simply because JD is being a hard head and trying to prove he ahs been right and is willing to lose his job in doing so.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I would even be ok if we switched to a 3-4 defense. I prefer a 4-3 base, but a 3-4 is doable.

With 12 available DL's in 2009, I have to believe the 4-3 is best. Or we move Sewell and maybe someone like Shead to LB.

[johnnyzip84]

Flemming would have no trouble switching the defensive scheme. He didn't use the 3-3-5 until he came to Akron. Coach Wallerstat taught him the defense even though Flemming is the D-Cord. Since Wally left our defense has been worse. How do you expect a coach to teach a system he didn't teach before coming here? Flemming is a great coach but maybe the system is holding him back a little.

I've been trying to research the origins of the 3-3-5 (sometimes called the 3-3-5 "stack") without a whole lot of definitive findings. Apparently it's been used in the NFL/AFL before, but only in a situational role. As far as college football goes, it looks like it started to gain acceptance as a possible every-down defense with Harding University around the year 2000. Therefore, it's highly likely that Fleming is far more familiar with 4-3 and 3-4 schemes anyway. But I'm not sure I would want him to come back as DC even if JD decides to junk the 3-3-5. I think some new blood/ideas might be in order.

[GP1]

You steelers fans have your heads shoved so far up your own a$$es you probably can see what you're thinking.

Thank you for your comments. I can see the playoffs while you are seeing another high first round bust of a draft pick. Enjoy the misery.Back to the Zips. The 3-4 is the way to go. It gives a team more flexibility against the various offenses college teams run week to week.

[ksu sucks]

Flemming would have no trouble switching the defensive scheme. He didn't use the 3-3-5 until he came to Akron. Coach Wallerstat taught him the defense even though Flemming is the D-Cord. Since Wally left our defense has been worse. How do you expect a coach to teach a system he didn't teach before coming here? Flemming is a great coach but maybe the system is holding him back a little.

I've been trying to research the origins of the 3-3-5 (sometimes called the 3-3-5 "stack") without a whole lot of definitive findings. Apparently it's been used in the NFL/AFL before, but only in a situational role. As far as college football goes, it looks like it started to gain acceptance as a possible every-down defense with Harding University around the year 2000. Therefore, it's highly likely that Fleming is far more familiar with 4-3 and 3-4 schemes anyway. But I'm not sure I would want him to come back as DC even if JD decides to junk the 3-3-5. I think some new blood/ideas might be in order.

I know this isn't a great comparison, but I played defensive end for my varsity high school football team and we had a 3-3-5. It's a great defense when you have two really athletic defensive ends and a big strong noseguard. I don't really know what our personnel is like here at Akron, but if you have a really good front three like my high school did(yes, I was damn good) it can open up a lot of stunts for the linebackers. In the 3-3 stack defense, the linebackers are expected to make most of the plays. The linemen are just expected to take blocks and open up blitzing lanes for the backers(although this may be true for most defenses, it's definitely emphasized in the stack). Unless of course, there is a passing situation, in which the aforementioned athleticism of the D-ends is used to their advantage. As for the zips. When you have 12 (or however many) capable defensive linemen, is seems stupid to run the 3-3-5. The only way I could see it benefiting the zips is if they rotate the line a lot. Being able to substitute fresh d-linemen in and NOT have a drop in the intensity of the defense is obviously a HUGE plus. I'm sure if this were the case for UA, we wouldn't be having this discussion.Regardless, I just thought I'd provide some input from someone who played the defensive scheme (although with much simpler play calling I'm sure).

[Lee Adams]

IF Brookhart stays..the defensive coaches have to go...the offense puts up enough points just about every game to be competetive...the defense for the last 2-3 years has forced the offense to score a ridiculous number of points to just stay in games...by now returning players and recruits look at the D and those coaches and see a black hole...what happened to Bryan Williams for instance...not only does it lose games, the defense has no credibility...for Brookhart to come back and thats a HUGE IF...he has to agree to overhaul the defensive side of the ball....

[Buckzip]

I would even be ok if we switched to a 3-4 defense. I prefer a 4-3 base, but a 3-4 is doable.

With 12 available DL's in 2009, I have to believe the 4-3 is best. Or we move Sewell and maybe someone like Shead to LB.

I agree. I am only saying that the 3-4 is still better than this crap we have now.

[skip-zip]

I'll repeat what I have been saying all along. You probably won't find a defense that doesn't work from the general philosophy of having your lineman tie up the blockers, and the guys in the middle of the field making the plays. I don't care what the base formation is called...3-3-5, 3-4-4, 4-3-4....we don't have guys making enough plays. Losing Mackey and Stokes was a huge blow to this defense. And I sure hope we have playmakers like them who are going to materialize soon, or we won't stop many people, no matter what the formation is called.

[GP1]

I'll repeat what I have been saying all along. You probably won't find a defense that doesn't work from the general philosophy of having your lineman tie up the blockers, and the guys in the middle of the field making the plays. I don't care what the base formation is called...3-3-5, 3-4-4, 4-3-4....we don't have guys making enough plays. Losing Mackey and Stokes was a huge blow to this defense. And I sure hope we have playmakers like them who are going to materialize soon, or we won't stop many people, no matter what the formation is called.

You're partially right and partially wrong.It is true that the 3-3-5 accounts for all gaps. The problem is not every player is suited to fill every gap. Our players are too small when we use this defense and they get overpowered by larger players.

[skip-zip]

GP1..I think we're both on the same page here. The issue is a personnel issue more than anything else. If that is what you are trying to say here, I totally agree.

[Zips Win!]

Good post CK.I have always found the simple solution to be the best solution. The 3-3-5 has to go. If JD is not willing to let the 3-3-5 go, then he has to go. If he agrees to bag it, then he stays. Hopefully his new defense would not be as stupid as the 3-3-5. Actually, the only thing more stupid than our defense would be a 2-1-8 defense.Fleming can install another type of defense or he can go. I don't care which. This isn't the guys first coaching job and he has coached other types of defenses. You Browns fans need to get used to the fact that JD is going to be back next year and it will probably be a good thing. How do I know that? Follow the logic:1. Browns fans are idiots.2. Everything Browns fans want blows up in their faces.3. A ton of Browns fans post on this board and are Zips fans. This means there are a lot of idiots posting on this board.4. A ton of Browns/Zips fans want the coach fired.5. Firing JD will blow up in our faces. Don't take the rest of us down with you Browns fans.Like I said, the simple solution is usually the best. JD stays unless he agrees to get rid of this silly defense he runs.

I need to respond to this as you constantly rip on the Browns' fans. While I am not a Brown's fan, your logic on why they are idots is completely wrong. But before I get to the Browns, I agree about JD. He needs to change the defense from the 3-3-5 or he should get fired. The last three years have ended terribly. Going 0-3 to end the season against two very bad teams is an embarrassment. I prefer to make a change regardless, but if he makes the necessary staff/philosophical changes I would give hime one more year. The scary thing is is that he seems to be heading toward the Faust/Owens path of about 40 wins if he stays around for 9 years.Back to the Browns. Sure there are a lot a idiotic fans. But I've watched games in Pittsburgh and in Cleveland and I find very little difference in how you all act. You just happen to root for the the team with 5 SB championships. As my kids would say, big wup. Lumping Zips fans with Browns' fan makes no sense. The Zips have several hundred thousand alumni around the country and we have somehwere between 200 and 2000 true blue fans. Again, big wup.Browns' fans in general are somewhat misguided, but I do appreciate their passion. Unfortunately, this is not entirely their fault. In fact, the mere existince of my favorite college football factory in c bus actually does more harm to Browns' fans than they would ever admit to. You see, most Browns' fans are also tosu fans, even though 99% of them have no affiliation with the school.Here is how they are misled/idiots:1. McSweatervest rolls out of bed the first week of February and signs the best 18 players in the state and 4 of the best players around the country. Conversely, Crennel/Savage spend days deciding who to choose in the first round and then get about 8 good players in the draft, IF they are lucky enough to make the right selections. Talent advantage: A-holes in cbus.2. McSweatervest and the AD scour the country to find 3 or 4 of the easiest non-conference opponents to play and play in the easist bcs conference while getting to play 7 or 8 of those games at home/neutral fields. Conversely, the Browns are told who they play and only get 50% of those games at home...and there are no Younstown State's on the Browns' schedule. Scheduling Advantage: A-holes in c-bus.3. The idots in c-bus rake in $8-10 million per football weekend when all purchases and donations for football are averaged per home contest. Conversely, the Browns have a salary cap to work within, but so do the other 31 teams. Keeping players eligible and out of jail is completely funded in c-bus. Fiscal Advantage: A-holes in c-bus.When it's all added up, it's easy to see why 10 wins in nearly guaranteed in a-hole land. It's also easy to see why it's so difficult to win in the NFL and why Browns' fan have become discouraged and then act like idiots. Have at it Buckzip and sgm.....P.S. Zips soccer - 1, A-holes in cbus - 0.

[GP1]

Good post CK.I have always found the simple solution to be the best solution. The 3-3-5 has to go. If JD is not willing to let the 3-3-5 go, then he has to go. If he agrees to bag it, then he stays. Hopefully his new defense would not be as stupid as the 3-3-5. Actually, the only thing more stupid than our defense would be a 2-1-8 defense.Fleming can install another type of defense or he can go. I don't care which. This isn't the guys first coaching job and he has coached other types of defenses. You Browns fans need to get used to the fact that JD is going to be back next year and it will probably be a good thing. How do I know that? Follow the logic:1. Browns fans are idiots.2. Everything Browns fans want blows up in their faces.3. A ton of Browns fans post on this board and are Zips fans. This means there are a lot of idiots posting on this board.4. A ton of Browns/Zips fans want the coach fired.5. Firing JD will blow up in our faces. Don't take the rest of us down with you Browns fans.Like I said, the simple solution is usually the best. JD stays unless he agrees to get rid of this silly defense he runs.

I need to respond to this as you constantly rip on the Browns' fans. While I am not a Brown's fan, your logic on why they are idots is completely wrong. But before I get to the Browns, I agree about JD. He needs to change the defense from the 3-3-5 or he should get fired. The last three years have ended terribly. Going 0-3 to end the season against two very bad teams is an embarrassment. I prefer to make a change regardless, but if he makes the necessary staff/philosophical changes I would give hime one more year. The scary thing is is that he seems to be heading toward the Faust/Owens path of about 40 wins if he stays around for 9 years.Back to the Browns. Sure there are a lot a idiotic fans. But I've watched games in Pittsburgh and in Cleveland and I find very little difference in how you all act. You just happen to root for the the team with 5 SB championships. As my kids would say, big wup. Lumping Zips fans with Browns' fan makes no sense. The Zips have several hundred thousand alumni around the country and we have somehwere between 200 and 2000 true blue fans. Again, big wup.Browns' fans in general are somewhat misguided, but I do appreciate their passion. Unfortunately, this is not entirely their fault. In fact, the mere existince of my favorite college football factory in c bus actually does more harm to Browns' fans than they would ever admit to. You see, most Browns' fans are also tosu fans, even though 99% of them have no affiliation with the school.Here is how they are misled/idiots:1. McSweatervest rolls out of bed the first week of February and signs the best 18 players in the state and 4 of the best players around the country. Conversely, Crennel/Savage spend days deciding who to choose in the first round and then get about 8 good players in the draft, IF they are lucky enough to make the right selections. Talent advantage: A-holes in cbus.2. McSweatervest and the AD scour the country to find 3 or 4 of the easiest non-conference opponents to play and play in the easist bcs conference while getting to play 7 or 8 of those games at home/neutral fields. Conversely, the Browns are told who they play and only get 50% of those games at home...and there are no Younstown State's on the Browns' schedule. Scheduling Advantage: A-holes in c-bus.3. The idots in c-bus rake in $8-10 million per football weekend when all purchases and donations for football are averaged per home contest. Conversely, the Browns have a salary cap to work within, but so do the other 31 teams. Keeping players eligible and out of jail is completely funded in c-bus. Fiscal Advantage: A-holes in c-bus.When it's all added up, it's easy to see why 10 wins in nearly guaranteed in a-hole land. It's also easy to see why it's so difficult to win in the NFL and why Browns' fan have become discouraged and then act like idiots. Have at it Buckzip and sgm.....P.S. Zips soccer - 1, A-holes in cbus - 0.

Interesting thesis and there is probably some truth to it. However, I still believe my Browns/Zips fan logic is correct. My logic does not assume 100% of Browns fans are idiots, only a large majority of them who make life miserable for the small minority.I should also clarify that not all Browns fans are idiots at everything. I have met many, many Browns fans who are actually extremely intelligent at many things, but turn into low IQ slackjaws when it comes to football. The whole theory centers around everything they want blowing up in their faces. It happens so often, it sort of proves the theory.In order to prove a theory, all other possibilities must be proven wrong. If anyone can show me something that Browns fans have wanted that worked out for them, I would be willing to listen. Even a big issue like being awarded an expansion team asap blew up in their faces. Then there is poor Brady Quinn. All the poor guy wants to do is play football and help the team win any way he can. When the fans finally get him in the game, his season is over in no time.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

Good post CK.I have always found the simple solution to be the best solution. The 3-3-5 has to go. If JD is not willing to let the 3-3-5 go, then he has to go. If he agrees to bag it, then he stays. Hopefully his new defense would not be as stupid as the 3-3-5. Actually, the only thing more stupid than our defense would be a 2-1-8 defense.Fleming can install another type of defense or he can go. I don't care which. This isn't the guys first coaching job and he has coached other types of defenses. You Browns fans need to get used to the fact that JD is going to be back next year and it will probably be a good thing. How do I know that? Follow the logic:1. Browns fans are idiots.2. Everything Browns fans want blows up in their faces.3. A ton of Browns fans post on this board and are Zips fans. This means there are a lot of idiots posting on this board.4. A ton of Browns/Zips fans want the coach fired.5. Firing JD will blow up in our faces. Don't take the rest of us down with you Browns fans.Like I said, the simple solution is usually the best. JD stays unless he agrees to get rid of this silly defense he runs.

I need to respond to this as you constantly rip on the Browns' fans. While I am not a Brown's fan, your logic on why they are idots is completely wrong. But before I get to the Browns, I agree about JD. He needs to change the defense from the 3-3-5 or he should get fired. The last three years have ended terribly. Going 0-3 to end the season against two very bad teams is an embarrassment. I prefer to make a change regardless, but if he makes the necessary staff/philosophical changes I would give hime one more year. The scary thing is is that he seems to be heading toward the Faust/Owens path of about 40 wins if he stays around for 9 years.Back to the Browns. Sure there are a lot a idiotic fans. But I've watched games in Pittsburgh and in Cleveland and I find very little difference in how you all act. You just happen to root for the the team with 5 SB championships. As my kids would say, big wup. Lumping Zips fans with Browns' fan makes no sense. The Zips have several hundred thousand alumni around the country and we have somehwere between 200 and 2000 true blue fans. Again, big wup.Browns' fans in general are somewhat misguided, but I do appreciate their passion. Unfortunately, this is not entirely their fault. In fact, the mere existince of my favorite college football factory in c bus actually does more harm to Browns' fans than they would ever admit to. You see, most Browns' fans are also tosu fans, even though 99% of them have no affiliation with the school.Here is how they are misled/idiots:1. McSweatervest rolls out of bed the first week of February and signs the best 18 players in the state and 4 of the best players around the country. Conversely, Crennel/Savage spend days deciding who to choose in the first round and then get about 8 good players in the draft, IF they are lucky enough to make the right selections. Talent advantage: A-holes in cbus.2. McSweatervest and the AD scour the country to find 3 or 4 of the easiest non-conference opponents to play and play in the easist bcs conference while getting to play 7 or 8 of those games at home/neutral fields. Conversely, the Browns are told who they play and only get 50% of those games at home...and there are no Younstown State's on the Browns' schedule. Scheduling Advantage: A-holes in c-bus.3. The idots in c-bus rake in $8-10 million per football weekend when all purchases and donations for football are averaged per home contest. Conversely, the Browns have a salary cap to work within, but so do the other 31 teams. Keeping players eligible and out of jail is completely funded in c-bus. Fiscal Advantage: A-holes in c-bus.When it's all added up, it's easy to see why 10 wins in nearly guaranteed in a-hole land. It's also easy to see why it's so difficult to win in the NFL and why Browns' fan have become discouraged and then act like idiots. Have at it Buckzip and sgm.....P.S. Zips soccer - 1, A-holes in cbus - 0.

Mercifully, SGM has been asked to don the pointy cap and sit in the corner for a few weeks by the mods. FWIW I agree with everything you just asserted, and have an irrational distaste for ALL things OSWHO.GO ZIPS!SeeTeeZip

[johnnyzip84]

point of clarification:In terms of 2008 games, it's soccer Zips 2 - A-Holes in C-Bus 0