MAC QB Carves Out Place In History

[GP1]

Let me say this first. Ben Roethlisberger is a winner.Bradshaw to Swann. Montana to Taylor. Roethlisberger to Santanio H. If you look at any five year statistic worth anything, Ben is in the all time top five list. Two Super Bowls. A huge playoff winning percentage. One last minute win after another. At a minumum, he is only behind Brady in QBs of his generation. Save me the Manning nonsense too. No QB in the NFL is doing less with more than P. Manning.Did Ben earn a spot in the HOF yesterday? The pass to Santanio was magical at worst and the stuff legends are made of.

[Zips fan]

I think that Big Ben will end up in the HOF, when it is all said and done. He does not have the career numbers to qualify currently, but his current post season play coupled with a ten year career will get him in.

[Dr Z]

Did Ben earn a spot in the HOF yesterday?

That's a hard question being that these guys are the ones voting.Isn't it odd that one of his first "magical" moments comes against our Zips?!?

[skip-zip]

First...let me preface what I say by telling everyone that I not a Browns or Steelers fan.Personally, I compare Ben's luck to that of a rich kid who was fortunate enough to be born into a rich family. He stepped in to QB a team that had all the offensive weapons you could have wanted. And a great defense to help you out too. And pay particular attention to his awful stats in 2006....the year he lost his running game, and the pressure fell squarely on his shoulders. This year was not all that much better than 2006 either. He threw almost as many INTs as TDs. I think he "appears" to be a better quarterback than he is because he has super talented people on this team, and they win. But, just because a team is winning does not mean that all of their players are the best at what they do. I think he's a "good" NFL QB, but I'll have to wait at least another 5 years to deem him HOF worthy.

[Zip Watcher]

I'm not going to look it up .. but did the Steelers even have 50 yards on the ground yesterday? Their running game has been pretty non-existent lately.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Personally, I compare Ben's luck to that of a rich kid who was fortunate enough to be born into a rich family. He stepped in to QB a team that had all the offensive weapons you could have wanted. And a great defense to help you out too.

Did you see the Steelers' offensive line this season? It was TERRIBLE. Regarding the defense - Great teams have other guys that help win championships. It isn't all the QB. Can you take anything away from a Championship QB because he had a great defense to go with him? Some guys are just winners. 60 minute games often come down to 1 or 2 critical plays. I've watched Roethlisberger play for 10 years. He has an uncanny knack for being on the positive end of most of those plays. He's a winner. Simple as that.If Chris Jacquemain had that same knack...we'd have been 9-3 this year.

[GP1]

First...let me preface what I say by telling everyone that I not a Browns or Steelers fan.Personally, I compare Ben's luck to that of a rich kid who was fortunate enough to be born into a rich family. He stepped in to QB a team that had all the offensive weapons you could have wanted. And a great defense to help you out too. And pay particular attention to his awful stats in 2006....the year he lost his running game, and the pressure fell squarely on his shoulders. This year was not all that much better than 2006 either. He threw almost as many INTs as TDs. I think he "appears" to be a better quarterback than he is because he has super talented people on this team, and they win. But, just because a team is winning does not mean that all of their players are the best at what they do. I think he's a "good" NFL QB, but I'll have to wait at least another 5 years to deem him HOF worthy.

There is only one statistic you need to look at with Ben. That statistic is wins. When the game is on the line, he comes through.I am a Steelers fan and I watch every game start to finish. They are not that talented of a team, but when you put it all together with a winner at the helm, you end up winning. Santanio Holmes would not be the #1 receiver on a lot of teams. Hines Ward is slow and old. Nate Washington only catches half the passes that hit his hands. Sweed........he is just awful.The Steelers won 12 games with Mewelde Moore starting at rb for a lot of the season. He was a cast off from the Vikings.Ben has 9 more years left on his contract. If he continues to win the way he does, the HOF is certain.

[RootforRoo44]

First...let me preface what I say by telling everyone that I not a Browns or Steelers fan.Personally, I compare Ben's luck to that of a rich kid who was fortunate enough to be born into a rich family. He stepped in to QB a team that had all the offensive weapons you could have wanted. And a great defense to help you out too. And pay particular attention to his awful stats in 2006....the year he lost his running game, and the pressure fell squarely on his shoulders. This year was not all that much better than 2006 either. He threw almost as many INTs as TDs. I think he "appears" to be a better quarterback than he is because he has super talented people on this team, and they win. But, just because a team is winning does not mean that all of their players are the best at what they do. I think he's a "good" NFL QB, but I'll have to wait at least another 5 years to deem him HOF worthy.

I agree completely. But then again I think this is the case for 75% of successful QB's. You can't win a game just having a great Quarterback, it takes all 11 guys on offense to be successful. Actually it can take 7 or 8 great guys and a few mediocre ones. My God look at Trent Dilfer in 00-01/Super Bowl XXXV as a great example.

[zen]

Ben has 9 more years left on his contract. If he continues to win the way he does, the HOF is certain.

9 more years will do it even averaging at .500 football the rest of the way.

[skip-zip]

Zipwatcher....I had a few minutes, so decided to look it up.Now..I've always been of the impression that Ben has had poor years throwing the ball when he didn't have a top notch running game to back him up, and vice versa. I never bothered to look it up, but it looks like the numbers show it.He had a QB rating of at or near 100 in 3 different years...when their running attack was ranked 2nd, 3rd, and 5th in the league.On the other hand, he had much lower ratings and a poor td/int ratio in 2006 and 2008 when the Pittsburgh running attack ranked 23rd and 10th in the league.Maybe this doesn't tell the entire story, but it sure looks like a correlation.

[zen]

Zipwatcher....I had a few minutes, so decided to look it up.Now..I've always been of the impression that Ben has had poor years throwing the ball when he didn't have a top notch running game to back him up, and vice versa. I never bothered to look it up, but it looks like the numbers show it.He had a QB rating of at or near 100 in 3 different years...when their running attack was ranked 2nd, 3rd, and 5th in the league.On the other hand, he had much lower ratings and a poor td/int ratio in 2006 and 2008 when the Pittsburgh running attack ranked 23rd and 10th in the league.Maybe this doesn't tell the entire story, but it sure looks like a correlation.

I see your point skip-zip, because if all other things were equal, I would put Dan Marino (in his prime) on my team way before I'd put ROFLzburger, and Marino never won a superbowl.... but the reality of the HOF is winning, career stats, and high profile games like superbowl appearence.I guess my analogy has holes because Marino is a HOF QB.... but still, the point is, winning and superbowls can get you into the HOF even if you aren't the best.

[Zips Win!]

They are not that talented of a team, .

I beg to differ on this comment. You can trade me your not-so-talented team for mine anyday.

[Dr Z]

Since sportswriters decide who goes in or not and not ZipsNation posters (which I think is bull). Here is one:Two Time Champion Clutch Enough For Canton?So we leave Super Bowl XLIII just as we entered it -- talking about a Hall of Fame quarterback waiting to happen.Only it's not Kurt Warner. It's Ben Roethlisberger.With Pittsburgh's 27-23 last-minute defeat of never-say-die Arizona on Sunday, Roethlisberger enters a conversation once considered unimaginable. Yep, I'm talking about Canton, and here's why: In just five years he has been to four playoffs, three conference championship games and two Super Bowls.And that's what I love about this guy. He doesn't produce fantasy-football numbers; he just wins, as in 73 percent of his games and eight of 10 playoff appearances. Plus, there is this: He's at his best when his best is needed most.

[zipdiehard]

We were just talking about this topic at work...while Ben has definetly started his way to the HOF, being the QB on two Super Bowl teams isn't a guarantee...just ask Jim Plunkett.

[Dr Z]

We were just talking about this topic at work...while Ben has definetly started his way to the HOF, being the QB on two Super Bowl teams isn't a guarantee...just ask Jim Plunkett.

Doesn't seem like a very good comparison:Plunkett (15 years) QB rating 67 : TD/INT 164-198 with 25,000 yardsBig Ben (5 years) QB rating 89 : TD/INT 101-69 with 15,000 yardsWith at least eight years left in Pitt, I would guess only an injury would keep Ben from surpassing Plunkett's modest numbers.I think most people believe he has the ability to be in the HOF due to the organization he plays for, and his youth.PS Plunkett is the only retired quarterback to start, and win, two Super Bowls not in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.In the case of quarterbacks, more than one ring - Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw, Roger Staubach, Troy Aikman, John Elway, Bob Griese and Joe Montana - has usually meant a summer trip to Canton, Ohio.

[tbozeglav]

I think people are too quick to jump on the big ben bandwagon. Yeah, he's done well and has 2 superbowl rings to show for it, but he's only been in the league for 5 years! I say he needs to keep this pace up for another 3-4 years and he has a solid bid to Canton. I think he'll make it to Canton largely based on the number of rings he has. His stats are very good, but they aren't stellar.

[GP1]

They are not that talented of a team, .

I beg to differ on this comment. You can trade me your not-so-talented team for mine anyday.

Your team is very talented. They just pick players with great talent that would be better playing in another system. They have an identity problem more than anything else. Your team has far too much talent to miss the playoffs. The blame really falls on the owner who probably can't admit that running an NFL team is not as easy as he thought it would be and he is in over his head. I guess I may be too hard on the Steelers talent level. They probably have a very high average talent level on the team. They keep that average up with a lot of "good" players, but not if any "great" players (with the exception of Ben). Too many teams get 3-4 great players and surround them with bums and they can't understand why they can not win.

[Zip Watcher]

I guess I may be too hard on the Steelers talent level. They probably have a very high average talent level on the team. They keep that average up with a lot of "good" players, but not if any "great" players (with the exception of Ben). Too many teams get 3-4 great players and surround them with bums and they can't understand why they can not win.

I think there's something to this comment.In the end, both the Steelers & Patriots have built great teams .. often with good players in roles. IMHO, the difference between these two elite franchises and the rest of the AFC is DISCIPLINE. The players are disciplined when it comes to commitment and dedication. Their disciplined when it comes to the schemes they play .. they are committed to the process and what their teams are working towards.Someone try to tell me that the Patriots linebacking core of Bruschi, Johnson, McGinnest and Vrabel is a great core athletically .. and even compares in that light to say the Ravens. The difference is the preparation and discipline these guys had when it came to the scheme being run. No over-pursuit .. no getting out of lanes. Commitment to their roles. From that .. good players can become great teams.See also (perhaps soon): Akron Men's Basketball - Defense. Individually, not all of these guys are exemplary one on one defenders (Conyers & Linhart the noted exceptions). As a team however, there have been flushes of phenomenal defense .. and it's showing up statistically .. and in the win column.Nice post GP1.

[GP1]

I guess I may be too hard on the Steelers talent level. They probably have a very high average talent level on the team. They keep that average up with a lot of "good" players, but not if any "great" players (with the exception of Ben). Too many teams get 3-4 great players and surround them with bums and they can't understand why they can not win.

I think there's something to this comment.See also (perhaps soon): Akron Men's Basketball - Defense. Individually, not all of these guys are exemplary one on one defenders (Conyers & Linhart the noted exceptions). As a team however, there have been flushes of phenomenal defense .. and it's showing up statistically .. and in the win column.Nice post GP1.

Good points.Discipline runs throughout the Steelers organization. The owner knows what he wants his team to do and demands it throughout the organization. He could really care less what they say about him in the media or on web pages. He is more than willing to cut a fan favorite (see Joey Porter) if he feels the player is almost past his prime (they replaced Porter with Defensive Player of the Year Harrison). He drafts young players behind veterans who may be getting long in the tooth and he does not care if the veteran likes it or not. He built his team years ago, now he maintains the greatness through keeping his identity in tact. Moving this to Zips MBB. We all know how much I hate the talk of "building" on this board. As far as the MBB team is concerned, KD has built, not is building, a good program. The program is always going to function in degrees of "good". They will not become average and they will probably never become great. Good is an excellent place to be over the long haul (see the Steelers). Right now, the Zips miss that one player, the Roethlisberger type guy, who can bring it all together. Zeke is a HS All American. I expect him to immediately move the program to a championship contender again next year. If the Zips were an NFL team this year, they would be considered a playoff contender, but not a team that could win the Super Bowl (the Eagles are a team like this). Next year, they should be a "Super Bowl contender" as far as college basketball goes with Zeke on the team. When fans think of the future, they should not think in terms of building. Building means there is a lot missing. Zips basketball fans should think in terms of "maintaining". The Zips need to maintain a team that can compete for the championship year in and year out. Zips fans should understand this and accept that there will be a year here or there (two years ago the Steelers didn't come close to making the playoffs) where the team does not meet expectations but they still function in the "good" range of teams. Over the long haul in the MAC, good is good......great is unreasonable......average is unacceptable.Speaking of the value of discipline. When Warner fumbled on the last play of the game (the NFL confirmed yesterday that it was a fumble), the Steelers were so well coached and disciplined that they sprinted their offense on the field and got off the snap at the ready to play signal before they could signal for a replay. NBC almost missed the play showing the replay of the Warner fumble. Most entire teams would have run onto the field resulting in a penalty. The Steelers played to the end of the 60th minute and secured the victory. That's discipline. That's the Steelers organization.