Downtown Arena might not be such a good idea

[Jake]

"The joke is, the university is swallowing downtown. Not exactly. Rather, Proenza sees the critical role of collaboration, the university serving as an engine for the regional economy, whether through the transformation of University Park or the development of the BioInnovation Institute, the marrying of polymer materials and orthopedics into new products, procedures and prosperity."

Yeah what he meant by the comment is that University isn't just taking over downtown. Which it's not. It's a neighbor and part of downtown, even the University Park Alliance recognized the importance of developing around the central business district.By the way, there are only 2800 students that live in University residence halls "on campus" not 5000 like you claim. Spend sometime reading all the comments on the board and you'll see we had this discussion already.

I said there are 3,000 to 4,000 students on campus and will soon be 5,000. 2800 students on campus? I think not, but it sure is more than 300 in a non-campus apartment complex. And I knew you'd put words in Proenza's mouth just like you do mine and others. It's what liars do. I have neighbors too but I don't call their property my property just because they are my neighbors. People make the romantic statement that UA is downtown. Even if that were true, it doesn't make downtown on campus. All poodles are dogs but not all dogs are poodles.

[Jake]

... In Kalamazoohttp://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/200..._wmus_move.html

Thanks kid. My sentiments exactly! And I think it's a no-brainer. Put the arena on campus and not off campus in downtown.

[Jake]

Off campus is a pretty broad term. A few steps away from the edge of the campus is essentially the same as on campus.

essentially on campus is not the same as on campus. Off campus is off campus. It's prety easy to figure out unless one is trying to pull a fast one. I know if I were to build an $80,000,000 university arena, I'd make damn sure it was more than essentially on campus. And I would change your terminology from essentially on campus to pseudo campus, which means "false campus"

[g-mann17]

"The joke is, the university is swallowing downtown. Not exactly. Rather, Proenza sees the critical role of collaboration, the university serving as an engine for the regional economy, whether through the transformation of University Park or the development of the BioInnovation Institute, the marrying of polymer materials and orthopedics into new products, procedures and prosperity."

Yeah what he meant by the comment is that University isn't just taking over downtown. Which it's not. It's a neighbor and part of downtown, even the University Park Alliance recognized the importance of developing around the central business district.By the way, there are only 2800 students that live in University residence halls "on campus" not 5000 like you claim. Spend sometime reading all the comments on the board and you'll see we had this discussion already.

I said there are 3,000 to 4,000 students on campus and will soon be 5,000. 2800 students on campus? I think not, but it sure is more than 300 in a non-campus apartment complex. And I knew you'd put words in Proenza's mouth just like you do mine and others. It's what liars do. I have neighbors too but I don't call their property my property just because they are my neighbors. People make the romantic statement that UA is downtown. Even if that were true, it doesn't make downtown on campus. All poodles are dogs but not all dogs are poodles.

Cincinnati has just over 3000 living on campus. So you should "think so". And more to the point is that we have 19000 undergrads and just under 25000 total students. Meaning the bulk of them live "off campus". But you will probably call them "pseudo students" as in false students.All I have said is open your mind. At one point the other side of Exchange was "off campus" at another point the other side of Union was "off campus". The entirety of the Greek Village is technically "off campus" though you propose that as a potential site. That is what happens with growth, borders get redefined. As for the Proenza comment, you took it out of context in the first place and I corrected you. The comment followed questions about the University buying Quaker Square hence "eating up downtown." Also as to your two sites, the parking lots and Greek Village. I want you to look at the size of the JAR, and then look at the size of the lot you suggested. It is much smaller than the JAR footprint, same as Memorial hall. As far the Greek Village area, you have several houses and proposed houses being built there, it is just bad for the school to kick all of those Fraternities and Sororties out of there. You talk about game day experience. The Greek Council has a huge impact on that, and running them out is not going to be beneficial to school.

[Jake]

I'd be interested to know the parties involved in building a downtown bb arena. If it is joint venture with the City, no thanks. They need a bb arena, not a multi-purpose arena that is a horrible place to watch a game. If it is heaping more bond debt on top of the bonds they sold for InfoCision Stadium, no thanks. If the Univeristy can not support what it currently has. The State could one day have to take over the University, no thanks. I know the JAR is awful, but too bad. I don't want to have degrees from The University of General Motors. When a city runs out of ideas on how to develop economically, they throw out building yet another stadium. I would say IF they are deciding to do this in Akron.....think harder.

I believe the state already runs The Univerity of Akron. That's why it is called a state university. The state can't take over itself. The city of Akron doesn't need an arena. The University of Akron does and that is where it should be built. East of the stadium would place the arena right up against Route 8 with an entry and exit ramp right in the arena's back yard. Downtown Akron is not on campus and will never look like part of a campus. Everytime I illustrate that and provide FACTS backing that up, others change the subject to "there is no room to put an arena on campus." That's the sign of a dishonest agenda.

[Dave in Green]

Off campus is a pretty broad term. A few steps away from the edge of the campus is essentially the same as on campus.

essentially on campus is not the same as on campus. Off campus is off campus. It's prety easy to figure out unless one is trying to pull a fast one. I know if I were to build an $80,000,000 university arena, I'd make damn sure it was more than essentially on campus. And I would change your terminology from essentially on campus to pseudo campus, which means "false campus"

That was only addressing the point that a facility on the outside edge of the campus would be as easy to walk to as one on the inside edge of the campus. "Off campus" ranges from a few steps over the border to many miles away. So obviously some off campus solutions would be much different from others, and lumping them all together can be misleading.In any case, if UA really wants a new facility inside the campus borders, and if they have the financing to make it happen, I have no doubt that they'll find the space to do it. If UA can't make the numbers work alone and requires a partner to build a multipurpose facility off campus, then I think the level of success will be proportional to the proximity to the campus. In that case, the ideal solution would be to build it right on the campus border so that it appears to be a part of the campus to all but those who might show up with surveying equipment.

[ZachTheZip]

Just keep in mind that the football stadium wasn't really "on campus" until the University bought all that property and transformed it into a part of campus. It added something on the border of campus and made is accessible to both the center of campus (walkways all over campus) and the rest of the city (Route 8 and Exchange). An arena would do well to have the same setup.

[Blue & Gold]

At the risk of drawing the infantile ire of a certain poster, as I look at our northern campus area in conjuction with downtown, I am beginning to think the best location for our new arena really may be the current parking lot just north of Quaker Square.Here is the BIG twist - we should close Mill Street and knock the bridge down - creating a large, pedestrian friendly, Arena-Quaker Square area. This location could help the bars/restaurants in the Historic District and Northside, as well as be a great same-block compliment to the Summit ArtSpace building. The Historic District is actually quite hip & seems on the verge of really becoming something special. If we could then somehow landscape the northern edge of downtown to make a pedestrian-friendly concourse from Perkins Street to the Northside District it would really create a truly substantial indie-bohemian-type area.This Mill Street location would also be but one block removed from the John S. Knight Convention Center and could be used for conventions as well as concerts and Zips b-ball.(I don't know how to post an image, but you can easily mapquest the area. In fact, Summit ArtSpace is located @ 140 East Market Street, Akron, OH 44308. QUAker SqUAre is then found one block to the south.)

[ZachTheZip]

Arena or not, I like the idea of knocking down the Mill Street bridge.

[g-mann17]

At the risk of drawing the infantile ire of a certain poster, as I look at our northern campus area in conjuction with downtown, I am beginning to think the best location for our new arena really may be the current parking lot just north of Quaker Square.Here is the BIG twist - we should close Mill Street and knock the bridge down - creating a large, pedestrian friendly, Arena-Quaker Square area. This location could help the bars/restaurants in the Historic District and Northside, as well as be a great same-block compliment to the Summit ArtSpace building. The Historic District is actually quite hip & seems on the verge of really becoming something special. If we could then somehow landscape the northern edge of downtown to make a pedestrian-friendly concourse from Perkins Street to the Northside District it would really create a truly substantial indie-bohemian-type area.This Mill Street location would also be but one block removed from the John S. Knight Convention Center and could be used for conventions as well as concerts and Zips b-ball.(I don't know how to post an image, but you can easily mapquest the area. In fact, Summit ArtSpace is located @ 140 East Market Street, Akron, OH 44308. QUAker SqUAre is then found one block to the south.)

I like the spot, but they will have to incorporate the Mill St bridge somehow because the city is spending 3 million + to replace it and make it fit in with the University's architecture.

[Dave in Green]

Personally, I have no problem filtering out "infantile ire" from the thoughtful comments posted here, so I hope that no one is ever discouraged from posting because they think that reasonable thoughts might trigger inappropriate responses.I like the creativity of the concept of taking down the Mill Street bridge. The problem I think is that it creates a long stretch from Market to Exchange where University Ave. would be the only vehicle bridge over the railroad. This might tend to create more vehicular traffic over the University bridge, and I think we can probably all agree that increasing vehicular traffic through the campus on University Ave is not such a good idea.However, if the Mill Street bridge is being replaced, there might be an opportunity to configure it slightly more to the south and pick up a little extra real estate to the north of the bridge.But the Bird's eye view on Mapblast (now known as Bing Maps) already shows some activity in that area, and I'm not sure what may already be planned there. Is there a master plan for this general area, or is it every building contractor for himself?

[g-mann17]

Personally, I have no problem filtering out "infantile ire" from the thoughtful comments posted here, so I hope that no one is ever discouraged from posting because they think that reasonable thoughts might trigger inappropriate responses.I like the creativity of the concept of taking down the Mill Street bridge. The problem I think is that it creates a long stretch from Market to Exchange where University Ave. would be the only vehicle bridge over the railroad. This might tend to create more vehicular traffic over the University bridge, and I think we can probably all agree that increasing vehicular traffic through the campus on University Ave is not such a good idea.However, if the Mill Street bridge is being replaced, there might be an opportunity to configure it slightly more to the south and pick up a little extra real estate to the north of the bridge.But the Bird's eye view on Mapblast (now known as Bing Maps) already shows some activity in that area, and I'm not sure what may already be planned there. Is there a master plan for this general area, or is it every building contractor for himself?

They could easily move it south after the Bel-Aire building is removed.That area you are referring to is now a medical building of some sort. If you look at campus you can see the general area was mapped pre-stadium construction.

[ZachTheZip]

We don't need a bridge on Mill Street. What we need is a pedestrian bridge to link Quaker Square directly to the rest of campus.The whole area needs to become more pedestrian friendly. The downtown area sold its soul to accommodate the automobile to such a degree that it almost completely killed commerce. The university took major steps to remedying that, but there is still a ton of work to be done and a walkway bridge over the tracks from the south end of the hotel to the Polymer Engineering building is the perfect start.

[WinZip]

We don't need a bridge on Mill Street. What we need is a pedestrian bridge to link Quaker Square directly to the rest of campus.The whole area needs to become more pedestrian friendly. The downtown area sold its soul to accommodate the automobile to such a degree that it almost completely killed commerce. The university took major steps to remedying that, but there is still a ton of work to be done and a walkway bridge over the tracks from the south end of the hotel to the Polymer Engineering building is the perfect start.

After living in Quaker for a year, I agree 100%! Distance really wasn't that big of a deal, but the walk could be much nicer! Maybe then people would see any reasonably close location for a stadium is a good thing!

[g-mann17]

We don't need a bridge on Mill Street. What we need is a pedestrian bridge to link Quaker Square directly to the rest of campus.The whole area needs to become more pedestrian friendly. The downtown area sold its soul to accommodate the automobile to such a degree that it almost completely killed commerce. The university took major steps to remedying that, but there is still a ton of work to be done and a walkway bridge over the tracks from the south end of the hotel to the Polymer Engineering building is the perfect start.

Traffic studies will contradict that statement. But you also need to realize that in our country, personal transportation (the auto) isn't going anywhere in your life time, and probably won't be for the next 100 years or so. The Bridge being constructed is going to be more pedestrian friendly, but you don't cut off a main artery for non existant foot traffic. I agree that there needs to be a nice safe & simple connection from Quaker to campus. But you also aren't ever going to be able to make a high traffic road to the heart of downtown and a very busy train track (1 train every 20 minutes) into something that is pedestrian friendly. The best you can do is swing it south through where the Bell-Aire Building is now and keep it high so that you can allow for foot traffic under the bridge. And for the people crossing from Quaker you make it so that it has 12 foot sidewalks.

[Captain Kangaroo]

The best way to find out where the new arena will be is to review the recent real estate purchases of UA Trustee's children.

[MaxZIP]

The best way to find out where the new arena will be is to review the recent real estate purchases of UA Trustee's children.

They have probably gotten smart and will put it in their pet's name.

[Jake]

"The joke is, the university is swallowing downtown. Not exactly. Rather, Proenza sees the critical role of collaboration, the university serving as an engine for the regional economy, whether through the transformation of University Park or the development of the BioInnovation Institute, the marrying of polymer materials and orthopedics into new products, procedures and prosperity."

Yeah what he meant by the comment is that University isn't just taking over downtown. Which it's not. It's a neighbor and part of downtown, even the University Park Alliance recognized the importance of developing around the central business district.By the way, there are only 2800 students that live in University residence halls "on campus" not 5000 like you claim. Spend sometime reading all the comments on the board and you'll see we had this discussion already.

I said there are 3,000 to 4,000 students on campus and will soon be 5,000. 2800 students on campus? I think not, but it sure is more than 300 in a non-campus apartment complex. And I knew you'd put words in Proenza's mouth just like you do mine and others. It's what liars do. I have neighbors too but I don't call their property my property just because they are my neighbors. People make the romantic statement that UA is downtown. Even if that were true, it doesn't make downtown on campus. All poodles are dogs but not all dogs are poodles.

Cincinnati has just over 3000 living on campus. So you should "think so". And more to the point is that we have 19000 undergrads and just under 25000 total students. Meaning the bulk of them live "off campus". But you will probably call them "pseudo students" as in false students.All I have said is open your mind. At one point the other side of Exchange was "off campus" at another point the other side of Union was "off campus". The entirety of the Greek Village is technically "off campus" though you propose that as a potential site. That is what happens with growth, borders get redefined. As for the Proenza comment, you took it out of context in the first place and I corrected you. The comment followed questions about the University buying Quaker Square hence "eating up downtown." Also as to your two sites, the parking lots and Greek Village. I want you to look at the size of the JAR, and then look at the size of the lot you suggested. It is much smaller than the JAR footprint, same as Memorial hall. As far the Greek Village area, you have several houses and proposed houses being built there, it is just bad for the school to kick all of those Fraternities and Sororties out of there. You talk about game day experience. The Greek Council has a huge impact on that, and running them out is not going to be beneficial to school.

No one including me has suggested that the fraternities and sororities located east of the stadium should be relocated. Again, with the intellectual dishonesty and lies. Also, my mind is open and yours is not. I'm quite aware of areas that may not be campus now but can be in the future and I'm all for that kind of progress. If you recall I'm the one encouraging the campus to spread south of Exchange. The site east of the stadium is not all UA owned but it can be and it has enough room to accommodate a sizeable arena. What will never look on-campus is Main Street in downtown. Its meant to be a downtown and will stay that way. There is no reasonable way UA can make downtown look as pedestrian friendly as it has made the campus look. Going downtown is going backwards to the days when UA faded into the woodwork and the mayor ran the university. Downtown Akron (city hall, the Beacon) has a notorious track record for emasculating The University of Akron and hijacking its facilities and that is precisely what the mayor has in mind.

[Jake]

Off campus is a pretty broad term. A few steps away from the edge of the campus is essentially the same as on campus.

essentially on campus is not the same as on campus. Off campus is off campus. It's prety easy to figure out unless one is trying to pull a fast one. I know if I were to build an $80,000,000 university arena, I'd make damn sure it was more than essentially on campus. And I would change your terminology from essentially on campus to pseudo campus, which means "false campus"

That was only addressing the point that a facility on the outside edge of the campus would be as easy to walk to as one on the inside edge of the campus. "Off campus" ranges from a few steps over the border to many miles away. So obviously some off campus solutions would be much different from others, and lumping them all together can be misleading.In any case, if UA really wants a new facility inside the campus borders, and if they have the financing to make it happen, I have no doubt that they'll find the space to do it. If UA can't make the numbers work alone and requires a partner to build a multipurpose facility off campus, then I think the level of success will be proportional to the proximity to the campus. In that case, the ideal solution would be to build it right on the campus border so that it appears to be a part of the campus to all but those who might show up with surveying equipment. ;)I believe that is what is called smoke and mirrors. Thanks but no thanks.

[Jake]

Arena or not, I like the idea of knocking down the Mill Street bridge.

I do too, but keep in mind you have a RR track there.

[Jake]

Just keep in mind that the football stadium wasn't really "on campus" until the University bought all that property and transformed it into a part of campus. It added something on the border of campus and made is accessible to both the center of campus (walkways all over campus) and the rest of the city (Route 8 and Exchange). An arena would do well to have the same setup.

Exactly, and that same setup cannot apply to the downtown area, without making the arena look like a City of Akron arena instead of a University of Akron campus arena. Unless we want to perpetuate the E.J. Thomas syndrome

[g-mann17]

No one including me has suggested that the fraternities and sororities located east of the stadium should be relocated.

Hmm...

The land to the east of the stadium is large enough for an arena. It would border Spicer, Vine, Goodkirk and E. Exchange.

Spicer, Vine, Goodkirk, and ExchangeNow, the corner of Spicer and Exchange is the Skyway Restaurant site. The block between Vine and Nash is mostly off campus housing and Fraternity/Sorority sites. If you build there, where do they go? Yeah that's right, they have to be relocated. But yes, I'm dishonest.

[UADavid]

http://www.akronnewsnow.com/print.asp?ID=8766http://www3.uakron.edu/nmc/plan/goals.htmlThere was also a ABJ article on the subject but you need to pay for archived stories. This is the reality of an arena. If built, there is an agreement to build it downtown.

[Dave in Green]

Good links, UADavid.UA's arena commitment to the City of Akron, as described in the AkronNewsNow story, fits well with point 6 in UA's stated goals:Create a strong physical, programmatic, and symbolic linkage between the campus and the adjoining community to stimulate mutually supportive and beneficial interaction.It appears as if those who favor harsh segregation of UA from the city with something akin to a Berlin Wall are tilting at windmills.

[scottditzen]

Stop it...You're thinking outside the box!!!!!!Seriously though, best idea I've heard in a long time. The campus needs it's own identity, but to ignore it's proximity to a possibly resurgent downtown would be a mistake.

At the risk of drawing the infantile ire of a certain poster, as I look at our northern campus area in conjuction with downtown, I am beginning to think the best location for our new arena really may be the current parking lot just north of Quaker Square.Here is the BIG twist - we should close Mill Street and knock the bridge down - creating a large, pedestrian friendly, Arena-Quaker Square area. This location could help the bars/restaurants in the Historic District and Northside, as well as be a great same-block compliment to the Summit ArtSpace building. The Historic District is actually quite hip & seems on the verge of really becoming something special. If we could then somehow landscape the northern edge of downtown to make a pedestrian-friendly concourse from Perkins Street to the Northside District it would really create a truly substantial indie-bohemian-type area.This Mill Street location would also be but one block removed from the John S. Knight Convention Center and could be used for conventions as well as concerts and Zips b-ball.(I don't know how to post an image, but you can easily mapquest the area. In fact, Summit ArtSpace is located @ 140 East Market Street, Akron, OH 44308. QUAker SqUAre is then found one block to the south.)