Dear Band Director

[UAZip0510]

Sorry for the triple post, but I think by reading the posts here from band members, I've figured out the problem. Band members think the following is important:- Integrity of the music- A contemporary feel to the show- Harmonious motionFootball fans want:- Energy, energy, energy- Music that will get the excited and/or moving in their seats- A show that will pump them up for the gameWhich leads to a question for the band members...are you playing for you, or are you playing for the fans?

What do you mean by energy, I'm sorry I went off was a little upset, but I have no idea what by energy you mean. We put a lot of energy in our shows, and leave it all on the field. Can you help me out here. Thanks

No problem...there's a lot of different ways to bring energy. High steps, fast steps, horn hits and horn raises, body language that shows a powerful emotion behind the music.

[Dr Z]

Don't do a Micheal Jackson tribute and I promise I won't complain. So far I like Akron's band better than Penn State's band. I liked the "A"

[interfx]

I think you're missing the point... You have a new stadium, and now is the time to start new traditions with the marching band... The band has tried many things in the past, and some stuck but some didn't. Back in 1980's they had a small "slock" band that walked around playing for the different parts of the Rubber Bowl - backl when the Rubber Bowl was so packed you couldn't hear the band... I personally don't care what other college bands do, only pointing out they each have something unique in what they do... This is your time to create something memorable!!!Good luck finding that "special" thing... (with Energy!)The video of the block A looked awesome! (with energy)

[Z.I.P.]

To be honest, i dont know where this "OSU's band is great" crap comes from. Ohio State's band doesn't even make my top 10 college bands list.Yes i'll even list it for you all.10) Michigan As much as i hate Michigan, they have a great fight song and do a great show.9) Stanford Always have great music selection8) Jackson State Most original band ever7) Florida A&M Love the monster size of the band, 2nd biggest in the world i think6) Texas A&M Another huge band, the largest military style marching band in the world. Talk about a band getting you pumped up5) Florida State Largest band in the world, great uniforms and tradition...i may be a little bias here as i have family in Tallahassee and FSU was right behind Akron in college choice4) Tennessee Been around since 1869, no wonder they have so much tradition3) Wisconsin Love the run on (and the hazing)2) USC Been to over 250 straight home and away games, they haven't missed a football game (home or away) in over 20 years!1) Ohio U If you've ever seen them in person, you'd know why i say they are #1. There is nothing better i could do to convince you other than tell you to see them live sometime.

All I know is, when Michigan brought their pep band to Hawaii for a game in about 1987, they played Hawaii-Five-O better than the rock group that made it a Top-10 pop hit in the '60s. I like hearing music I immediately recognize. I'm down with Michael. I hope you guys get on ESPNU this Saturday.

[bandzip]

I'm all for constructive criticism, but when someone is continually posting, "well at my High School we marched in bare feet up hill and splated as loud as we could and my mom told me we were the best band in the world so you should do the same or else you're dumb" it gets a little old. To sum up everything we've learned so far:1. We've established that pregame is good, though run-on could use some tweeking. 2. We also established that it lacks energy everywhere except the student section because they're yelling the cheers and singing the fight song. 3. We've established that we should kick half of the band out because they don't play brass and that by taking people off the field we will get louder. 4. Even though we didn't use sheet music Saturday we need to get rid of the music because it's distracting. 5. Halftime for most is boring. 5a. Those people should stop complaining and go get their hot dogs at this time. 5b. This Saturday is High School Band Day and the show is based around the anniversary of the "Day the Music Died" so if nothing else you have that to look forward to for halftime. 6. Traveling Bands = Awesome. 7. March to the stadium is good though a different route should be considered. 8. Pre and post game concerts are a good idea and enjoyed by many. Did I miss anything? Anything else for the good of the order or does that pretty much cover it for now?

[vmd9]

Don't do a Micheal Jackson tribute and I promise I won't complain. So far I like Akron's band better than Penn State's band. I liked the "A"

WHAT? haha Michael Jackson is the man! I wish we'd do a tribute like they did at penn state...Zippy would look good in a thriller jacket for sure!

[ZachTheZip]

To me, college marching bands are supposed to have huge drumlines that play long cadences that get the crowd fired up. Drums carry omnidirectionaly better than horns or woodwinds, which only really sound good when they're pointed at you.And the songs shouldn't be something that you want to clap along to. They should be ones that make you want to get up and move, something with a rhythm.Look at this. 10 minutes straight of drums, not a single brass or woodwind but it feels like a "college football marching band". It has energy, even though the band isn't marching around like a bunch of rejects from the Ministry of Silly Walks.

[UAZip0510]

Umm...I did it for four years in high school. That's my point - if my high school band (and many other high school bands) can do it, a college band should be able to as well, but better.High School isn't college if you actually use your ears you'll hear that most high-school bands playing is terrible. Try sitting on the home side and you'll actually hear that our chords are in tune and not just trumpets and trombones blatting as loud as possible.

If you want to get defensive and snippy about it, I'll let this topic go, and next time instead of using my ears to listen to your show, I'll just use my feet and go to the concession stand instead. I offered constructive criticism, and it's obvious some just can't take it. I was being polite before, but now I'll be brutally honest - I've seen many high school bands that are better than UA's. I agree with those that say colleges are on a different level than high school...but there's always exceptions. My high school band (and many, many others that I've seen) put on a superior show to that of the current UA band. The sad part is, some of those in the band (not everyone, of course) basically ignore any kind of criticism, even constructive...even worse, they have the talent to improve their band and their performances...I wouldn't have ever brought it up if I thought otherwise.

You weren't being polite at all!! We have worked for countless hours memorizing the pre-game music and halftime music and stand music. You haven't heard half the songs we've had to memorize. Plus, we memorize new music every week for every new game. The reason we are angry is simply because we worked our butts off getting the whole thing ready, and you just write that we had no energy, we didn't play loud enough, we need to march better, etc. etc. We HAD energy, we DID play loud!Look, all we want is a little respect. How would you like not even having a band? Just be glad with what you've got here at UA, and if you love OUs band so much more, then go to OU games and watch them play, but don't just sit there and say we didn't give it our all. We did!

Did you even read my posts? I basically said my complaints with with the Director, not the band members. Hence - "Dear Band Director". And I'd rather have no band than one who can't take a little bit of constructive criticism to their program.

[UAZip0510]

I'm all for constructive criticism, but when someone is continually posting, "well at my High School we marched in bare feet up hill and splated as loud as we could and my mom told me we were the best band in the world so you should do the same or else you're dumb" it gets a little old. To sum up everything we've learned so far:1. We've established that pregame is good, though run-on could use some tweeking. 2. We also established that it lacks energy everywhere except the student section because they're yelling the cheers and singing the fight song. 3. We've established that we should kick half of the band out because they don't play brass and that by taking people off the field we will get louder. 4. Even though we didn't use sheet music Saturday we need to get rid of the music because it's distracting. 5. Halftime for most is boring. 5a. Those people should stop complaining and go get their hot dogs at this time. 5b. This Saturday is High School Band Day and the show is based around the anniversary of the "Day the Music Died" so if nothing else you have that to look forward to for halftime. 6. Traveling Bands = Awesome. 7. March to the stadium is good though a different route should be considered. 8. Pre and post game concerts are a good idea and enjoyed by many. Did I miss anything? Anything else for the good of the order or does that pretty much cover it for now?

Let me check my own checklist...1. We've established that someone mentioning their opinion that many high school bands provide as much as if not more energy than UA's band will cause an agitated band member to twist the original comment into a sarcastic comment that doesn't resemble the original comment one bit2. We've established that this constructive criticism will also cause this band member to create words such as "splated"3. We've established that constructive criticism will not work with these band members, as, although they say otherwise, they really have no intention in listening to or considering ideas from non-band membersI mentioned all of this because I felt the potential was there for the band to take advantage of the new stadium with new traditions and better than show, their organization, and their effect on the game. I took an interest because I felt like the band members could yake some suggestions, even if they didn't agree with them. Silly me.Do whatever you guys want to do, it's obvious to me now that you're going to do that anyways. Best of luck this season.

[maemmfc]

3. We've established that we should kick half of the band out because they don't play brass and that by taking people off the field we will get louder.

Can we please not do this? I thoroughly enjoy, care about, & love/love being in this band, would love to stay in it & play woodwind!

[ziprowdy]

bandzip gets a standing ovation, and that post was fantastic...i was rolling on the floor laughing...the fact is more people have told the director and members of the band that they were fantastic and great...alumni and donors have told Mr. Robert D. Jorgensen that they loved the band...so i would have to say let's go with what those people are saying and not the people on here

[maemmfc]

Did you even read my posts? I basically said my complaints with with the Director, not the band members. Hence - "Dear Band Director". And I'd rather have no band than one who can't take a little bit of constructive criticism to their program.

Yeah, & I'd like to have an audience who goes with what we do rather than complaining about little things that don't matter. The fact of the matter is that mostly everyone I've talked to LOVED Pregame & Halftime. I've sat in class, looking over music for the next shows as well as discussing band stuff with band friends in my classes, & people interrupt me/turn to me when they see/hear this all excited & say that we were amazing & that they were speechless. My RA, my roommate, a girl in my biology lab, random people in my classes, & co-workers turned to me with wide eyes telling me how awesome we were. Sorry if you don't agree, but that's my own opinion.

[maemmfc]

the fact is more people have told the director and members of the band that they were fantastic and great...alumni and donors have told Mr. Robert D. Jorgensen that they loved the band

Proenza loved us...

[ZippyTuba11]

I'm all for constructive criticism, but when someone is continually posting, "well at my High School we marched in bare feet up hill and splated as loud as we could and my mom told me we were the best band in the world so you should do the same or else you're dumb" it gets a little old. To sum up everything we've learned so far:1. We've established that pregame is good, though run-on could use some tweeking. 2. We also established that it lacks energy everywhere except the student section because they're yelling the cheers and singing the fight song. 3. We've established that we should kick half of the band out because they don't play brass and that by taking people off the field we will get louder. 4. Even though we didn't use sheet music Saturday we need to get rid of the music because it's distracting. 5. Halftime for most is boring. 5a. Those people should stop complaining and go get their hot dogs at this time. 5b. This Saturday is High School Band Day and the show is based around the anniversary of the "Day the Music Died" so if nothing else you have that to look forward to for halftime. 6. Traveling Bands = Awesome. 7. March to the stadium is good though a different route should be considered. 8. Pre and post game concerts are a good idea and enjoyed by many. Did I miss anything? Anything else for the good of the order or does that pretty much cover it for now?

Wow, not only have you missed most of the points here, you show a sincere lack of understanding of bands. Did you even check any of the links I provided? Read any of the information I posted?Re: Brass bands. Yes they are louder. Have you never heard your band director tell the brass to play softer so not to over power the woodwinds? You have to have A LOT of woodwinds to match the production of brass. It's not rocket science here. Addition by subtraction. Sorry you can't understand it.I also understand why the University uses woodwinds. I was just posting my personal taste and suggestion. I have no delusions about seeing a brass band here, because the directors want a marching symphonic band and want to put more emphasis on the educational value of the marching band rather than the entertainment value of the marching band. They are also going to have to accept that by going down that road, less people are going to be interested in the band's performance.

[bandzip]

I'm all for constructive criticism, but when someone is continually posting, "well at my High School we marched in bare feet up hill and splated as loud as we could and my mom told me we were the best band in the world so you should do the same or else you're dumb" it gets a little old. To sum up everything we've learned so far:1. We've established that pregame is good, though run-on could use some tweeking. 2. We also established that it lacks energy everywhere except the student section because they're yelling the cheers and singing the fight song. 3. We've established that we should kick half of the band out because they don't play brass and that by taking people off the field we will get louder. 4. Even though we didn't use sheet music Saturday we need to get rid of the music because it's distracting. 5. Halftime for most is boring. 5a. Those people should stop complaining and go get their hot dogs at this time. 5b. This Saturday is High School Band Day and the show is based around the anniversary of the "Day the Music Died" so if nothing else you have that to look forward to for halftime. 6. Traveling Bands = Awesome. 7. March to the stadium is good though a different route should be considered. 8. Pre and post game concerts are a good idea and enjoyed by many. Did I miss anything? Anything else for the good of the order or does that pretty much cover it for now?

Wow, not only have you missed most of the points here, you show a sincere lack of understanding of bands. Did you even check any of the links I provided? Read any of the information I posted?Re: Brass bands. Yes they are louder. Have you never heard your band director tell the brass to play softer so not to over power the woodwinds? You have to have A LOT of woodwinds to match the production of brass. It's not rocket science here. Addition by subtraction. Sorry you can't understand it.I also understand why the University uses woodwinds. I was just posting my personal taste and suggestion. I have no delusions about seeing a brass band here, because the directors want a marching symphonic band and want to put more emphasis on the educational value of the marching band rather than the entertainment value of the marching band. They are also going to have to accept that by going down that road, less people are going to be interested in the band's performance.

Name five popular all brass college bands besides OSU. Heck, I'll let you get away with three if you can think of them off the top of your head.

[ziprowdy]

lets talk about DCI for a moment shall we...first of all they can choose from players all around the country...top notch players all around the country, even from other countries...the band here has local high schools and the random person from out of state...DCI sounds loud because they are crazy in tune, let's make that very clear...its not just that they are blowing their brains out, they are perfectly in tune across the group...it may appear they are playing louder because all of their instruments are BELL FRONT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...the marching euphoniums are bell front, the contras are bell front, and the baritones are bell front...which means the sound is going where???...at the crowd yes thank you very much...what does Akron's band have???...upright euphoniums, and sousaphones...which yes are pretty much bell front...but yes let's make all of our woodwind players switch over to brass instruments...that would be awesome...pretty sure the band would be worse than it is now

[bandzip]

It appears the idea to spread out and fill the section is out of our hands for now. Athletics doesn't think we need the space and wants to keep that area open for students, even though no students will sit there because they can't see past the Sousaphones, and there's a nice soft hill to sit on a few feet away .

[ZippyTuba11]

Name five popular all brass college bands besides OSU. Heck, I'll let you get away with three if you can think of them off the top of your head.

Michigan State comes to mind immediately. (Saxes don't count)Just because they are few doesn't mean they aren't better. Go to a DCI show and tell me you wouldn't rather have one of those bands marching at half time. I'm not suggesting that DCI is the level that Akron can achieve, or any college marching band, but that is the dream.Most of the big schools don't care about having all brass, because they have enough size to have large woodwind sections. Smaller ones are afraid that by switching they will lose all of their players. I get it. Big brass bands are still appreciated on a whole different level than the woodwind/brass/perc bands.And when you have the most well known brass band in the country right next door, it's easy for a spectator to compare the two.

[maemmfc]

Name five popular all brass college bands besides OSU. Heck, I'll let you get away with three if you can think of them off the top of your head.

Michigan State comes to mind immediately. (Saxes don't count)Just because they are few doesn't mean they aren't better. Go to a DCI show and tell me you wouldn't rather have one of those bands marching at half time.

I'm pretty sure to sound like DCI you have to practice like DCI. 14 hour days for about...3 months? Yeah, I'm pretty sure that we have classes to go to. I mean, it's college...

[bandzip]

Name five popular all brass college bands besides OSU. Heck, I'll let you get away with three if you can think of them off the top of your head.

Michigan State comes to mind immediately. (Saxes don't count)Just because they are few doesn't mean they aren't better. Go to a DCI show and tell me you wouldn't rather have one of those bands marching at half time.

1. But saxes are a woodwind... 2. Mr. Karriker has never asked the brass to play softer. He's always looking for a bigger sound.3. I just don't understand how a 100 piece all brass band would be better than a 180 piece brass and woodwind band. It not like we can just hand the woodwinds a trumpet and they'll be able to play next weekend. Bigger band = Louder. Limiting who can be in it = much smaller band = not louder = not as cool looking.

[ZippyTuba11]

1. But saxes are a woodwind... 2. Mr. Karriker has never asked the brass to play softer. He's always looking for a bigger sound.3. I just don't understand how a 100 piece all brass band would be better than a 180 piece brass and woodwind band. It not like we can just hand the woodwinds a trumpet and they'll be able to play next weekend. Bigger band = Louder. Limiting who can be in it = much smaller band = not louder = not as cool looking.

I've been in that band, you can't tell me Mr K hasn't told the brass to play softer so not it over power the woodwinds, because he has.This whole debate is ridiculous. I just stated it is my personal taste. I understand why the U doesn't do. But I'll explain it again, then maybe we can get back to productivity. Taking away the woodwinds means you are putting the melody they played and putting into a brass arrangement. Brass can play it louder. I've seen many good and great bands play side by side with OSU's, and OSU's almost always blows them away with sound production. Does that mean other band is not a good band, and that OSU's is so much better? No. They are just going up against a different band that can do things on a different scale. It's addition by subtraction. A 200 piece brass band is just going to be a lot louder than a 200 piece woodwind/brass band. Therefore a good, small, brass band can put out as much, and in some cases more volume than a mixed band.To address ziprowdy's comments. DCI isn't the only group that gets to pick from the cream of musicians. How many people go to OSU, Michigan, LSU, USC, Tennessee et al to be apart of their bands? There is no reason Akron cannot get this level of success. But they need to have something here that really draws in musicians. They are taking a step in the right direction, but they need to solve a few things. The entrance to pre-game really needs to be an attention getter. The energy comment is something that lots of people have noticed. It's something that has to be addressed with body language. I know the band was playing their hearts out, but when you're up top in the GA on the East side, it just doesn't come across. The sound production is another thing. Up close, the band sounds absolutely amazing. But when you're up top, or the band is facing the other stands, or endzones, the sound just disappears. It could be just an acoustic factor that the stadium brings, but it is a serious issue. I felt like I had to whisper to my friends during half time, or I would be talking over the band. But I was up top, in the East side.

[zipsop]

lets talk about DCI for a moment shall we...

Just saying, as someone who has marched DCI before joining Ohio's Pride, I can definitely see the difference. But that is not feasible to recreate that performance quality outside of the DCI activity. Many of the people in UAs band dont do it to "beat" some other band, they do it because they enjoy multiple aspects: 1. music in general: some people just like playing their instrument, and will join any ensemble that allows them to do so. even if they arent the best payer in the band, they can still learn and make music.2. the experience: Being in a collage marching band allows you to give DIRECT support to sports teams on campus. while normal fans can sing the fight song for only a hand full of listeners, the band can play it and can be heard by many thousands.3. (this is the most important) The people: People are the most important because in 35 years you can look back and it wont matter what drill spot you marched, but it will matter who marched the drill spot next to you. other members of this organization do their part they sweat and sometimes (yes) bleed for this band. I do it because i have friends who do it, and that makes it enjoyable.Though they dont play as loud as drum corps do, or march as well, or practice as much, but it is still fun for me because I get to hang out with my friends. So I think a lot of the people on this thread should just shut up, and let the director (who marched in DCI, mind you) do his job. He does have a degree in it. would you tell your surgeon how he should cut you open? hell NO! you'd let him do his job, because people smarter than me and you put them in charge. so please keep all comments here positive and give some kind of background for your suggestions. believe me the band is more than willing to appeal to the fans. this thread should be for non band members to tell actual band members what they think can be tweaked (key word) we arent going to redo pregame after one go. if you have some life altering bit of commentary, please take it to Guzzetta Hall, Ill give you a personal tour. otherwise, unless you actually are planning on teaching a band one day, sorry to say, but you may not be able to change the marching activity on the whole.shucks!

[RootforRoo44]

1. But saxes are a woodwind... 2. Mr. Karriker has never asked the brass to play softer. He's always looking for a bigger sound.3. I just don't understand how a 100 piece all brass band would be better than a 180 piece brass and woodwind band. It not like we can just hand the woodwinds a trumpet and they'll be able to play next weekend. Bigger band = Louder. Limiting who can be in it = much smaller band = not louder = not as cool looking.

I've been in that band, you can't tell me Mr K hasn't told the brass to play softer so not it over power the woodwinds, because he has.This whole debate is ridiculous. I just stated it is my personal taste. I understand why the U doesn't do. But I'll explain it again, then maybe we can get back to productivity. Taking away the woodwinds means you are putting the melody they played and putting into a brass arrangement. Brass can play it louder. I've seen many good and great bands play side by side with OSU's, and OSU's almost always blows them away with sound production. Does that mean other band is not a good band, and that OSU's is so much better? No. They are just going up against a different band that can do things on a different scale. It's addition by subtraction. A 200 piece brass band is just going to be a lot louder than a 200 piece woodwind/brass band. Therefore a good, small, brass band can put out as much, and in some cases more volume than a mixed band.To address ziprowdy's comments. DCI isn't the only group that gets to pick from the cream of musicians. How many people go to OSU, Michigan, LSU, USC, Tennessee et al to be apart of their bands? There is no reason Akron cannot get this level of success. But they need to have something here that really draws in musicians. They are taking a step in the right direction, but they need to solve a few things. The entrance to pre-game really needs to be an attention getter. The energy comment is something that lots of people have noticed. It's something that has to be addressed with body language. I know the band was playing their hearts out, but when you're up top in the GA on the East side, it just doesn't come across. The sound production is another thing. Up close, the band sounds absolutely amazing. But when you're up top, or the band is facing the other stands, or endzones, the sound just disappears. It could be just an acoustic factor that the stadium brings, but it is a serious issue. I felt like I had to whisper to my friends during half time, or I would be talking over the band. But I was up top, in the East side.

YOU should be the band director! I like your no excuses take on this whole thing. We need someone who doesn't just say "well this is alright" and instead makes it better because majority of us sure as hell know it could be.

[Jonnycakes]

A 200 piece brass band is just going to be a lot louder than a 200 piece woodwind/brass band. Therefore a good, small, brass band can put out as much, and in some cases more volume than a mixed band.

Therefore 100 brass players can overpower 180 brass and woodwind players? That makes no sense at all. Two sound waves at the same pitch happening at the same time build on each other. Brass + Woodwinds=more soundwaves=more amplitude=louder sound. The best way for Akron to sound bigger is to work to play more in tune. Sound waves in tune with each other don't interfere with each other and rather build on each other, adding rather than subtracting to the dynamic and resonance of the sound. Addition by subtraction is 4-2=6. Addition by addition is 4+2=6. The latter works.

[mello11]

Hi Zips Fans!So I know I'm not a frequent poster on the forum but when I see a topic about the band...I take interest. I am currently a member of Ohio's Pride...and I couldn't be prouder to be. I have read all the postings to this topic and I just want to say that I personally felt that I put everything I had onto that field on Saturday. I don't know what more I could possibly have done...I memorized, I sweat, I lost my chops, I hurt for several days, and I gave as much energy as I possibly could give. (But that's what being in Ohio's Pride is all about) I focused my all my attention into putting on the best performance that I could. Personally, I think we rocked. It wasn't perfect, but nothing is...and it will never be for every single person...performer or audience.I'm not saying this as a whiny band member who feels attacked...because that's not it at all. I would hate to think that any of our fans were offended by the band member's view. I realize that most comments were made to help, not to offend and you wouldn't have even bothered if you didn't think we were worth it. So we greatly appreciate it and hopefully we can only get better as the season goes on...and I'm sure we will.I guess I'm just trying to say that it's hard for band members, like myself, to work as hard and put as much heart and soul into a performance as we did on Saturday and then come back and hear, "but you're just not quite good enough"...."here are all these bands that are better than you that we'd like you to be more like"..."you didn't try hard enough"..."you guys were ok...but here's all the stuff you can do better". So I apologize on behalf of the band (I hope they would agree with me) for being angry or taking these criticisms personally. But we ARE the band. We put OURSELVES into the performance. That's the only way you can get the energy that everyone seems to want. So when you say the band was lacking...it's personal. (At least it is for me anyway) I'm not trying to sound sappy or whiny...I'm just putting this viewpoint out there. So don't stop the criticism! It may be hard to take...but that's how we get better. But maybe now everyone understands why we're a little resistant to adopt the changes right away. Thanks for respecting what we do and and appreciating us as a part of the gameday experience. Ohio's Pride is Ohio's Pride...there is no other ensemble out there that we are like or try to be like. I have a lot of respect for my fellow band members and if any of you are out there reading...thanks for doing what you do...don't get discouraged...in the words of Mr. Jorgensen...you rock! So...thanks to everyone for the suggestions and the (constructive) criticisms. I'm personally glad that there are even people who are paying attention enough to post stuff on here. Remember we are always working hard to make gamedays even more exciting and we'll do whatever we can to try to incorporate the good ideas. Oh and one more thing...GO ZIPS!!!