Dear Band Director

[skip-zip]

Just my honest thoughts....1) Because of the "festive" atmosphere, I think people got into what the band was doing more than usual. I thought the "Big A" thing got a nice roar from the crowd.2) Over the years, I've often used halftime to try to sneak to the parking lot to have a few more beverages, chat with some friends, or make a run to the facilities...sorry.3) I stayed right in my seat for the halftime show. First time I have done that in years. And I don't recall hearing anything on the field that got me excited or inspired....sorry. But, I clapped often to show my appreciation for the efforts.

[rkl7]

After thinking over Saturday's events, I came to the realization that only three things need fixed to make InfoCision perfect. 1) More staff at the food service place (did you see those lines?)2) The Team Shop to be open (I am SHOCKED it wasn't ready...UA lost a looooot of money there)3) The band Apologies to any band members that post here. I'm not trying to rip you, and know you put a great deal of hard work into your band. But I'll be blunt - the pregame and halftime routines have absolutely zero energy. I'm somewhat surprised at the showing year after year from our band. I'm not sure if anyone cares or if this will be well received, but I do have some thoughts.1) Pick your feet/knees upYou have 27,000+ roaring in anticipation...and the band comes in slide-stepping with absolutely no energy. This not only do what it needed to do - increase the energy - but actually seemed to bring it down a little. 2) Pick up the energyAside from adding some energy to your steps, bring it with your music as well. Play it loud, play it like you mean it! And let's see some horn hits...let the crowd know you love what you're doing...get them pumped to see their team!3) Lose the sheet musicMany high schools don't use sheet music...why is a college doing so? Memorize the music. Using sheet music prevents you from stepping high, doing horn hits, moving as you play. And trust me - fans would sacrifice the quality of the music a hair if they got more energy in return. The announcer during the band performance was practically begging people to make noise. And while some may, I don't blame the fans here. Give them reason to cheer, to stand up, to get pumped. Again, not trying to bash - we appreciate you and the work you put in - I just think that some changes to how the band operates should join the rest of the changes that are or already have taken place at UA. I found some links below - this is a high school band I found on youtube, and I'd be interested to ask other non-band members...who would you rather watch at halftime?

GO ZIPS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alright, let's see you, Mr. UAZIPS0510, go down on the field that is radiating heat and chair step all of pre-game in a restricting uniform that is dark blue and soaks up the heat, then continue to play music for you unappreciative people throughout the first half then see you go down with whatever lip you have left and destroy it while trying to remember where to march to next and remember the right notes while keeping perfect body posture and walking with a perfect roll-step. Then continue to play throughout the remaining half then finally go down and attempt to play a few songs with no lip left, all the while sweating your balls off! You guys think what we do is easy? Let's see you do it better!

[RootforRoo44]

This has been beaten to death before. The fact is, our band is not very loud, they are not entirely made up of people who truly want to be there, and basically they are not anywhere near the top half of bands in this country.BUT they are our band and we can only hope they eventually do get better.Let me say however, that you guys can at least try to play a bit louder though. Stop with the excuses and just do it. Also, we really could strive to be more like the 110 at OU because they are the real deal (i hate to admit it).

[RootforRoo44]

Sitting in the General Admission seats was a big mistake for me. I have never seen a group of people so unexcited to be at a football game. Not a lot of cheering for anything. I was one of few in my section that jumped up every time the team scored a touchdown and I had to start the clap with the fight song because no one else was. I will never make the mistake of buying those tickets again. I was also extremely disappointed at the lack of respect that the crowd had for OUR fight song. When the band announcer (which I have never liked) said "The nation's best fight song" some guy behind me said "Ohio State!" Akron's fight song may not be the greatest fight song, but it is unique and I guarantee it isn't overplayed thousands of times every Friday night by high school bands. I am a band director and both schools in which I have taught use Across the Field. I hope my next school is a little more creative in their slection. How can we build any traditions if people constantly compare the band to OSU? There are not a lot of direct references, but I know it is what every Ohio fan uses to "set the bar." Sometimes I wish people would be more open to looking outside of their comfort levels and realize that there are a lot of bands in this country that are a lot better than OSU. Why are they so well loved? Because they do the same thing every year and people have learned in the past like 50 years exactly what is going to happen. We don't have the luxury of having a band director stay on for 30 years as they do. We don't have the financial support to compete with them either. We have to be Akron and try to create some traditions. Yet, every time Mr. Karriker tries to change things up, people find some faults.I thought pregame was great, it was new and refreshing. I liked seeing the old Moffitt style squad drill, as perfected by Michigan State's band. I could hear pregame from GA a lot better than I heard halftime, but I have hearing loss....and I could still hear the band. Was the "energy" lacking for halftime? Yes, in my opinion, but I don't know what is expected to change that. Was the music selection poor? Yeah, probably not the best. I think that he had good intentions with the "Celebration" theme, but the song selections didn't support the theme. I wonder whether or not the same people that question Akron's music selection also question OSU's selection? Their halftime shows are even worse in terms of selection, they just have a better reputation. What people don't realize is that the musical abilities of the students in the Akron Band are comparable to OSU, but they have a lot more people to choose from and they can do just that....pick and choose the best of the crop.I think that it would be helpful for people that have legitimate suggestions to contact the people in charge of the band. Suggestions....not complaints. There are only so many changes that can be made at a time. Personal preference reigns supreme on this issue, which is why it will always be an issue. Would I personally like to see OSU change what they do? Yes, but my opinion will differ with many, many people. I think that traditions become tired and redundant after so long.Well this post is completely unorganized, I apologize for that. Hopefully it will give you something to think about though. Go Zips!

To be honest, i dont know where this "OSU's band is great" crap comes from. Ohio State's band doesn't even make my top 10 college bands list.Yes i'll even list it for you all.10) Michigan As much as i hate Michigan, they have a great fight song and do a great show.9) Stanford Always have great music selection8) Jackson State Most original band ever7) Florida A&M Love the monster size of the band, 2nd biggest in the world i think6) Texas A&M Another huge band, the largest military style marching band in the world. Talk about a band getting you pumped up5) Florida State Largest band in the world, great uniforms and tradition...i may be a little bias here as i have family in Tallahassee and FSU was right behind Akron in college choice4) Tennessee Been around since 1869, no wonder they have so much tradition3) Wisconsin Love the run on (and the hazing)2) USC Been to over 250 straight home and away games, they haven't missed a football game (home or away) in over 20 years!1) Ohio U If you've ever seen them in person, you'd know why i say they are #1. There is nothing better i could do to convince you other than tell you to see them live sometime.

[Aaron]

10) Michigan As much as i hate Michigan, they have a great fight song and do a great show.9) Stanford Always have great music selection8) Jackson State Most original band ever7) Florida A&M Love the monster size of the band, 2nd biggest in the world i think6) Texas A&M Another huge band, the largest military style marching band in the world. Talk about a band getting you pumped up5) Florida State Largest band in the world, great uniforms and tradition...i may be a little bias here as i have family in Tallahassee and FSU was right behind Akron in college choice4) Tennessee Been around since 1869, no wonder they have so much tradition3) Wisconsin Love the run on (and the hazing)2) USC Been to over 250 straight home and away games, they haven't missed a football game (home or away) in over 20 years!1) Ohio U If you've ever seen them in person, you'd know why i say they are #1. There is nothing better i could do to convince you other than tell you to see them live sometime.

RootforRoo, something tells me you and the Akron band staff / director are on totally separate pages. Many people, myself included, think that wearing capes, dancing on the field, and playing songs with three chords are just ridiculous for a college marching band. I've just never been impressed by OU, and I think there's a reason there aren't that many 'show bands' in the collegiate atmosphere. As far as some of the other bands on your list, I would agree. Stanford is known for having some of the most amazing drills anywhere.

[Blue & Gold]

I haven't read this thread, but I can pretty easily tell what it's about. I just wanted to say that I thought the band did a great job! I was pumped and just got during the pregame show as the band formed the Block A just as the fight song was kicking. And I just got goosebumps again by watching a youtube vid of the pregame from Saturday. Again, how the band comes together to form the marching Block A just as the fight song is kicking off seriously gives me goosebumps!!! Everyone I was with thought it was great too.

[zipseuph]

Let me say however, that you guys can at least try to play a bit louder though. Stop with the excuses and just do it. Also, we really could strive to be more like the 110 at OU because they are the real deal (i hate to admit it).

1) thanks for the support2)I don't think you can realistically hope for the band to take everything they do and turn it on it's head just to dance around. besides if they were to do that then they would just be looked at as a cheep OU knock off3) we have no one on staff trained for a dance band so if we did try that it would be corny as hell4) if they play louder then the next complaint will be "man they sound like total crap" the sound will come with more numbers5) I am confused by the fact that you say "they are our band" and then say "strive to be more like OU"6) for the love of God lay off of OU!I must echo what others have said when I say nix the announcer and find a better run on. again I'm sure all of this will change. I still think they should bring back the tire drum. hell I could probably get them the tire

[bandzip]

I have my own personal tastes, though I know they will never be implemented. e.g. I think the band should be all brass, as it is a way to make a 100 piece band sound like a 200 piece band.

I don't see how cutting woodwinds out of the band will make the band louder. Call me crazy, but taking people off the field sounds like a good way to make the band half the size and much quieter. Ohio State is one of the only bands around that cuts people and that's for tradition sake, I wouldn't count on woodwinds ever being stricken from the band as it just makes no sense. You want us to dance and splat like OU and double our size but cut people from the band and have the instrumentation of a drum corp?Also, any band members posting for the first time, which I see several of you are, don't poke the other posters with sticks. If you want to see what happens when you do then take a look at any number of previous band forums using the search feature. This has acutally been one of the most civil and helpful topics posted in regards to the band. Take what helpful advice they have to give, which is actually far more than usual this time around, and ignore ignorant posts and suggestions. The views by two or three posters on this forum repeatedly posting the same thing do not necessarily represent the views of the audience as a whole, and name calling is not a way to get them to see things your way.A majority of people were estatic about pregame and stands performances, and quite a few have duely noted complaints about halftime which we know is a matter of taste and style. You know what we can and can't control, and what we need to do better so please leave it at that and do not start an "everyone hate on the band" scenario.

[UADavid]

I have my own personal tastes, though I know they will never be implemented. e.g. I think the band should be all brass, as it is a way to make a 100 piece band sound like a 200 piece band.

I don't see how cutting woodwinds out of the band will make the band louder. Call me crazy, but taking people off the field sounds like a good way to make the band half the size and much quieter. Ohio State is one of the only bands around that cuts people and that's for tradition sake, I wouldn't count on woodwinds ever being stricken from the band as it just makes no sense. You want us to dance and splat like OU and double our size but cut people from the band and have the instrumentation of a drum corp?Also, any band members posting for the first time, which I see several of you are, don't poke the other posters with sticks. If you want to see what happens when you do then take a look at any number of previous band forums using the search feature. This has acutally been one of the most civil and helpful topics posted in regards to the band. Take what helpful advice they have to give, which is actually far more than usual this time around, and ignore ignorant posts and suggestions. The views by two or three posters on this forum repeatedly posting the same thing do not necessarily represent the views of the audience as a whole, and name calling is not a way to get them to see things your way.A majority of people were estatic about pregame and stands performances, and quite a few have duely noted complaints about halftime which we know is a matter of taste and style. You know what we can and can't control, and what we need to do better so please leave it at that and do not start an "everyone hate on the band" scenario.

Very well stated. I think for the most part the comments should be considered constructive criticism and should not be interpreted as attacks on the band. I enjoyed what I will call the "satellite bands" that went roaming the stadium. They were a big surprise and enjoyable.

[Blue & Gold]

I am in 100% agreement about the "satellite" bands. The satellite band visiting my section was one of the many memorable highlights of my day! The band is a HUGE and VITAL part of the college gameday atmosphere and u guys hit it out of the park!

[ziptrumpet87]

I don't know if it is possible, but thinking on how to improve the entrance to pre-game here. Would it be possible to stage the band on the sidelines as opposed to in the tunnel? What I'm thinking is have the drums and tubas in the endzone underneath the scoreboard. Half the band on the east sideline and half the band on the west sideline. The drums and tubas do a march out similar to what was done at the Rubber Bowl. Then once they are on the field the rest of the band does the run on followed by the fanfare/fight song and on through pre-game.

I believe that is similar to what Cuy. Falls entrance is.FWIW, I can recall doing a corner entrance at Firestone HS for a halftime (director is now director at Can't). It was kinda cool.While I appreciate corps style bands and have been to DCI shows, I personally don't care for them at football games.

[UAZip0510]

GO ZIPS!!!!!!!!!!!!Alright, let's see you, Mr. UAZIPS0510, go down on the field that is radiating heat and chair step all of pre-game in a restricting uniform that is dark blue and soaks up the heat, then continue to play music for you unappreciative people throughout the first half then see you go down with whatever lip you have left and destroy it while trying to remember where to march to next and remember the right notes while keeping perfect body posture and walking with a perfect roll-step. Then continue to play throughout the remaining half then finally go down and attempt to play a few songs with no lip left, all the while sweating your balls off! You guys think what we do is easy? Let's see you do it better!Umm...I did it for four years in high school. That's my point - if my high school band (and many other high school bands) can do it, a college band should be able to as well, but better.

[ejcool27]

Umm...I did it for four years in high school. That's my point - if my high school band (and many other high school bands) can do it, a college band should be able to as well, but better.High School isn't college if you actually use your ears you'll hear that most high-school bands playing is terrible. Try sitting on the home side and you'll actually hear that our chords are in tune and not just trumpets and trombones blatting as loud as possible.

[bandzip]

Umm...I did it for four years in high school. That's my point - if my high school band (and many other high school bands) can do it, a college band should be able to as well, but better.

As someone who's been in marching band for the past 8 years, with three at the college level, let me tell you, it's not the same thing. You have way less time to prepare, you're playing for 30,000 people every week, you do run on and every single person has to play to even be heard. No 3rd quarter breaks to hang out with your friends and eat pizza either. Friday night games are at least a little cooler than Saturday afternoon with the sun beating down on you all day while wearing a dark blue wool uniform for 6 hours. I also seriously doubt you had rehearsal at 7 am on a Saturday for a 2:00 game where you played pre and post game concerts with a pep rally in between. I'm sure your high school band had nothing on Ohio's Pride. Not trying to be a jerk or anything, just realistic. Please think before you post. Maybe it is just a little harder then you think.

[UAZip0510]

Umm...I did it for four years in high school. That's my point - if my high school band (and many other high school bands) can do it, a college band should be able to as well, but better.High School isn't college if you actually use your ears you'll hear that most high-school bands playing is terrible. Try sitting on the home side and you'll actually hear that our chords are in tune and not just trumpets and trombones blatting as loud as possible.

If you want to get defensive and snippy about it, I'll let this topic go, and next time instead of using my ears to listen to your show, I'll just use my feet and go to the concession stand instead. I offered constructive criticism, and it's obvious some just can't take it. I was being polite before, but now I'll be brutally honest - I've seen many high school bands that are better than UA's. I agree with those that say colleges are on a different level than high school...but there's always exceptions. My high school band (and many, many others that I've seen) put on a superior show to that of the current UA band. The sad part is, some of those in the band (not everyone, of course) basically ignore any kind of criticism, even constructive...even worse, they have the talent to improve their band and their performances...I wouldn't have ever brought it up if I thought otherwise.

[UAZip0510]

Umm...I did it for four years in high school. That's my point - if my high school band (and many other high school bands) can do it, a college band should be able to as well, but better.

As someone who's been in marching band for the past 8 years, with three at the college level, let me tell you, it's not the same thing. You have way less time to prepare, you're playing for 30,000 people every week, you do run on and every single person has to play to even be heard. No 3rd quarter breaks to hang out with your friends and eat pizza either. Friday night games are at least a little cooler than Saturday afternoon with the sun beating down on you all day while wearing a dark blue wool uniform for 6 hours. I also seriously doubt you had rehearsal at 7 am on a Saturday for a 2:00 game where you played pre and post game concerts with a pep rally in between. I'm sure your high school band had nothing on Ohio's Pride. Not trying to be a jerk or anything, just realistic. Please think before you post. Maybe it is just a little harder then you think.

Actually, our practices were petty grueling. Some kids' parents didn't let them stay in the band because they thought it was "too much". And because we disagree doesn't mean I don't think before I post...I've thought this way about our band for quite some time. And let me again say this - I'm not saying they don't work hard, that they don't have a tough job, or that they don't have great talent. They obviously do. I'm just saying that their current show is very lackluster. People are certainly different...if someone thought I wasn't doing my job as good as it could be done, I wouldn't shut them out...I'd listen to their thoughts, even if I respectfully disagreed with them. Judging by the tone of some of the responses, it seems as if some would prefer to hear people tell them how great they are. I guess that's OK...but those who do great things are never afraid to take and consider constructive criticism.

[UAZip0510]

Sorry for the triple post, but I think by reading the posts here from band members, I've figured out the problem. Band members think the following is important:- Integrity of the music- A contemporary feel to the show- Harmonious motionFootball fans want:- Energy, energy, energy- Music that will get the excited and/or moving in their seats- A show that will pump them up for the gameWhich leads to a question for the band members...are you playing for you, or are you playing for the fans?

[zipsbandman]

Umm...I did it for four years in high school. That's my point - if my high school band (and many other high school bands) can do it, a college band should be able to as well, but better.High School isn't college if you actually use your ears you'll hear that most high-school bands playing is terrible. Try sitting on the home side and you'll actually hear that our chords are in tune and not just trumpets and trombones blatting as loud as possible.

The football team puts up with far worse criticism than anything said about the band believe me. Every other college band across the country works hard to put a show together as well, and some bands are still better than others. We want ours to be among the best and are trying to offer input. Personally it shows that the fans care about the band. Take what is said with a grain of salt and go kick butt next week.

[RootforRoo44]

Sorry for the triple post, but I think by reading the posts here from band members, I've figured out the problem. Band members think the following is important:- Integrity of the music- A contemporary feel to the show- Harmonious motionFootball fans want:- Energy, energy, energy- Music that will get the excited and/or moving in their seats- A show that will pump them up for the gameWhich leads to a question for the band members...are you playing for you, or are you playing for the fans?

It sure as hell aint for the fans. Btw, i'm not just all about OU. That style of band IS what football is about. The band isn't supposed to be putting on a boring concert. I could care less if you played Journey (who i hate) the whole night as long as it was energetic and not just crappy standing around and playing like i see every game. Cater to the fans and maybe you will have the tradition/equipment/supporrt of one of those 10 bands i mentioned because PEOPLE WILL DONATE MONEY!!!!

[maemmfc]

- Energy, energy, energy

Okay. I've been reading this topic since it started, & seriously, could someone explain exactly what they mean by "give us some energy"? Because the way I interpreted it when I first read it (& then read it the fifty other times it was said, haha) was that we should use all we have. I, & most of the bandos I know (although, most I know are the few who care the most), used all the energy we had to march correctly & play right/remember what we're supposed to be doing. So, if someone could explain to me what kind of energy we should use other than what I know, please tell me... because just saying "more energy" doesn't help much... seriously, I'm not being sarcastic. I would love to know.I'd really appreciate it so we could try & strive to have this energy.

[UAZip0510]

Sorry for the triple post, but I think by reading the posts here from band members, I've figured out the problem. Band members think the following is important:- Integrity of the music- A contemporary feel to the show- Harmonious motionFootball fans want:- Energy, energy, energy- Music that will get the excited and/or moving in their seats- A show that will pump them up for the gameWhich leads to a question for the band members...are you playing for you, or are you playing for the fans?

It sure as hell aint for the fans. Btw, i'm not just all about OU. That style of band IS what football is about. The band isn't supposed to be putting on a boring concert. I could care less if you played Journey (who i hate) the whole night as long as it was energetic and not just crappy standing around and playing like i see every game. Cater to the fans and maybe you will have the tradition/equipment/supporrt of one of those 10 bands i mentioned because PEOPLE WILL DONATE MONEY!!!!

+1

[ZippyTuba11]

I don't see how cutting woodwinds out of the band will make the band louder. Call me crazy, but taking people off the field sounds like a good way to make the band half the size and much quieter. Ohio State is one of the only bands around that cuts people and that's for tradition sake, I wouldn't count on woodwinds ever being stricken from the band as it just makes no sense. You want us to dance and splat like OU and double our size but cut people from the band and have the instrumentation of a drum corp?

You're crazy I'm asking people on this forum, ON BOTH SIDES, return to a civil discussion. NOBODY is saying the band sucks. We were all impressed by what you did out there. There are just a few aspects that we are critizing or feel needs improvement. Please, band members, don't take it personally. We know you are working hard, and doing your best. We also know something things are out of your control.Now for the brass band, yes it is going to be louder, if you take the woodwinds off the field and put their parts in the brass. It's just simple logic. It takes a lot more woodwinds to match the sound production that a brass section has. The only way to make this band loud is to either drastically increase it's size, or switch to brass. DCI bands (Drum Corps International) are not bigger than Akron's band, but completely overshadow Akron's in terms of sound quality and production.Canton Bluecoats (local comparison)

Madison Scoutshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIhsJhQigsE...feature=relatedPhaton Regiment (where Mr. Karriker marched)

Personally, I think OU's band is trashy. They have a big following, but to me it just looks and sounds sloppy. There is a difference in having a good sound production, and being loud.As good as you think certain college bands are, I don't think there is a one out there that would be able to make it out of last place in the World Class Division of DCI. THAT is the kind of music and production I want the band to be striving towards.Match that kind of sound, with the marching performance that the band had during pregame (game looked amazing after the band got on the field! I loved how they did the A as well as the UA and logo).I've had this discussion with several band members. From the field, the band sounds great, but from the upper stands, the sounds just gets lost. The brass sounds does carry some, but there isn't enough. I don't know how to fix that, except make the band bigger and increase the brass in the band.

[rkl7]

Umm...I did it for four years in high school. That's my point - if my high school band (and many other high school bands) can do it, a college band should be able to as well, but better.High School isn't college if you actually use your ears you'll hear that most high-school bands playing is terrible. Try sitting on the home side and you'll actually hear that our chords are in tune and not just trumpets and trombones blatting as loud as possible.

If you want to get defensive and snippy about it, I'll let this topic go, and next time instead of using my ears to listen to your show, I'll just use my feet and go to the concession stand instead. I offered constructive criticism, and it's obvious some just can't take it. I was being polite before, but now I'll be brutally honest - I've seen many high school bands that are better than UA's. I agree with those that say colleges are on a different level than high school...but there's always exceptions. My high school band (and many, many others that I've seen) put on a superior show to that of the current UA band. The sad part is, some of those in the band (not everyone, of course) basically ignore any kind of criticism, even constructive...even worse, they have the talent to improve their band and their performances...I wouldn't have ever brought it up if I thought otherwise.

You weren't being polite at all!! We have worked for countless hours memorizing the pre-game music and halftime music and stand music. You haven't heard half the songs we've had to memorize. Plus, we memorize new music every week for every new game. The reason we are angry is simply because we worked our butts off getting the whole thing ready, and you just write that we had no energy, we didn't play loud enough, we need to march better, etc. etc. We HAD energy, we DID play loud!Look, all we want is a little respect. How would you like not even having a band? Just be glad with what you've got here at UA, and if you love OUs band so much more, then go to OU games and watch them play, but don't just sit there and say we didn't give it our all. We did!

[ejcool27]

Sorry for the triple post, but I think by reading the posts here from band members, I've figured out the problem. Band members think the following is important:- Integrity of the music- A contemporary feel to the show- Harmonious motionFootball fans want:- Energy, energy, energy- Music that will get the excited and/or moving in their seats- A show that will pump them up for the gameWhich leads to a question for the band members...are you playing for you, or are you playing for the fans?

What do you mean by energy, I'm sorry I went off was a little upset, but I have no idea what by energy you mean. We put a lot of energy in our shows, and leave it all on the field. Can you help me out here. Thanks

[zipseuph]

Sorry for the triple post, but I think by reading the posts here from band members, I've figured out the problem. Band members think the following is important:- Integrity of the music- A contemporary feel to the show- Harmonious motionFootball fans want:- Energy, energy, energy- Music that will get the excited and/or moving in their seats- A show that will pump them up for the gameWhich leads to a question for the band members...are you playing for you, or are you playing for the fans?

I'm sorry not to be mean but it's hard to take you serious when you didn't even pay enough attention to realize that the band wasn't using flip folders. but I don't think its unrealistic to hope for all six things you just listed

i'm not just all about OU. That style of band IS what football is about.

again to expect UA to turn this entire band program on it's head just to make the band dance is insane. there are plenty of college marching bands who march in a traditional style while still successfully entertaining their fans.

The football team puts up with far worse criticism than anything said about the band believe me.

amensome members of the band need some thicker skin and should not let this affect them in a bad way most of them have that but there have been a few on hear who can't take it and need to grow up. it can be hard to hear people think that a product you put a lot of time/energy into isn't that great (I understand I used to be the same way) but the people here are trying to help