The Charlie Frye Era in Oakland

[Z.I.P.]

It looks as though the JaMarcuss Russell era has come to a conclusion with today's 38-0 shutout loss to the Jets, the worst home loss in Raider franchise history. Starter Russell has completed below 50% of his passes on the season, and threw two early INTs, and fumbled in his own red zone. Ex-Rocket Bruce Gradkowski came on in the second quarter, and didn't do much better, completing something like 10 of 19 for just over a hundred yards, while fumbling at his own 4 yard line. The Raider Nation boards are starting to chant -- Char-lie, Char-lie!!This is provided primarily for the inducement of GP-1. There doesn't seem to be much else to liven things up about Akron football around here these days. I might buy a plane ticket, and get out my Browns #5 jersey! lol!

[Zip_ME87]

It looks as though the JaMarcuss Russell era has come to a conclusion with today's 38-0 shutout loss to the Jets, the worst home loss in Raider franchise history. Starter Russell has completed below 50% of his passes on the season, and threw two early INTs, and fumbled in his own red zone. Ex-Rocket Bruce Gradkowski came on in the second quarter, and didn't do much better, completing something like 10 of 19 for just over a hundred yards, while fumbling at his own 4 yard line. The Raider Nation boards are starting to chant -- Char-lie, Char-lie!!This is provided primarily for the inducement of GP-1. There doesn't seem to be much else to liven things up about Akron football around here these days. I might buy a plane ticket, and get out my Browns #5 jersey! lol!

Let me know if you do...I'll join you with my Browns #9 jersey.

[GP1]

This is provided primarily for the inducement of GP-1.

Aren't the chants of Charlie-Charlie-Charlie how he started his illustrious career in Cleveland? Like I always say, everything Cleveland fans want ends up blowing up in their faces. Charlie was just another example of that.

[Hilltopper]

This is provided primarily for the inducement of GP-1.

Aren't the chants of Charlie-Charlie-Charlie how he started his illustrious career in Cleveland? Like I always say, everything Cleveland fans want ends up blowing up in their faces. Charlie was just another example of that.

[GoZips88]

<removed; another household member posted without realizing I was the one who was logged in >

[zen]

If Frye plays again, and plays well, his h8rs on this board will probably says things like "fluke" and "give him another week".That's my prediction.

[GJGood]

I'd love to see charlie get another shot and do well. I could be a Raiders fan for the first time in my life if he becomes the starter.I don't think he ever really had a supporting cast or good consistent coaching in Cleveland and they never really let him do anything on Sundays in Seattle, although you've got to think his time with Holmgren couldn't have hurt him.The thing is, if he plays now in Oakland I don't think his situation is any better now than it was in Cleveland. No QB can play very well for Oakland right now and thats not necessarily being critica about the guys they have at that position. It is a team sport after all and they seem to be missing some major pieces while the QBs always seem to get the blame.

[GP1]

I'd love to see charlie get another shot and do well.

You must not like Charlie very much. The last thing Charlie needs at this point in his career is to get on the field again.He is a bad NFL QB. However, his game experience, while a joke, is important in the NFL. Most third string QBs have zero playing experience. As long as he doesn't get in another game, the smaller of a chance he has of getting run out of another town. If he shows up to work every day and contributes in a back-up role, I think he could last another 3-4 years in the league. The key though is not letting anyone see how bad he is in a regular season game.I have nothing against Charlie making a great living in the NFL. It's just too bad he uses it to support Ashland University.

[skip-zip]

I'd love to see charlie get another shot and do well. I could be a Raiders fan for the first time in my life if he becomes the starter.I don't think he ever really had a supporting cast or good consistent coaching in Cleveland and they never really let him do anything on Sundays in Seattle, although you've got to think his time with Holmgren couldn't have hurt him.The thing is, if he plays now in Oakland I don't think his situation is any better now than it was in Cleveland. No QB can play very well for Oakland right now and thats not necessarily being critica about the guys they have at that position. It is a team sport after all and they seem to be missing some major pieces while the QBs always seem to get the blame.

The highlighted area above is the understatement of the year. He never had a running game, played behind a makeshift offensive line that I recall went through several Centers because of injury. And even Braylon, despite his dropped balls, was out with a broken leg for a good amount of Charlie's starts. Compare that to most of the two-year period after he left with a healthy Winslow, healthy Edwards, two pro-bowl caliber offensive linemen, and a running back with pro bowl appreances. Despite all of this, Charlie holds one of the highest rookie QB ratings in NFL history....even higher than P. Manning!, along with a very good career completion percentage, and one of the highest single-game ratings in Browns' history. And he could move in the pocket, and run with the ball. With what he accomplished, under THOSE kinds of circumstances, i'm not sure why there's so much negativity about him. I bet a lot of Browns fans would love to give him another shot right now. And just look at some of the other QBs around the league. I am not saying he was going to be great, good, fair, poor or otherwise in his career. We don't know. But, based on what he did, and the circumstances, and how it compares to most QBs early in their career, I think it's hard to be critical of his time in Cleveland.

[zen]

good point skip-zip.They later gave Derek Anderson a better offensive line, and got Edwards and Winslow healthy together, and DA had a good season.Now, the Browns are once gain without receivers or a running game, and even though the OLine is still better now than it was when Charlie was playing, it hasn't been protecting DA (or quinn) very well this year.Now suddenly miracle man seems very very mortalRNK QB RTG YDS/GM1 Peyton Manning, 114.5 3132 Aaron Rodgers, 110.8 2843 Drew Brees, 106.9 2834 Matt Schaub, 104.4 2965 Ben Roethlisberger, 102.6 2956 Brett Favre, 102.2 2407 Kyle Orton, 100.1 2448 Tom Brady, 99.9 2909 Philip Rivers, 96.1 29810 Tony Romo, 94.7 27511 Donovan McNabb, 93.8 20412 Joe Flacco, 93.8 27913 Eli Manning, 92.2 23314 Matt Ryan, 90.2 22715 Carson Palmer, 89.2 23016 Kurt Warner, 89.1 27917 Kevin Kolb, 88.9 18518 Matt Hasselbeck, 85.0 18219 Jason Campbell, 84.3 20020 David Garrard, 83.9 24421 Jay Cutler, 82.9 24222 Seneca Wallace, 82.6 12923 Shaun Hill, 79.6 15724 Chad Henne, 76.5 16525 Matt Cassel, 73.2 16626 Trent Edwards, 73.0 16427 Marc Bulger, 72.5 13028 Byron Leftwich, 71.2 19829 Matthew Stafford, 65.5 22430 Kerry Collins, 62.0 17931 Mark Sanchez, 61.5 16832 Jake Delhomme, 56.5 19533 Josh Johnson, 50.9 11434 JaMarcus Russell, 47.2 12735 Derek Anderson, 40.6 121

[GP1]

Despite all of this, Charlie holds one of the highest rookie QB ratings in NFL history....even higher than P. Manning!, along with a very good career completion percentage, and one of the highest single-game ratings in Browns' history. And he could move in the pocket, and run with the ball.

He also holds the record for being the only opening day QB traded the following day after opening day.Anybody can complete a lot of passes in the NFL to guys out of the backfield. The key is completing passes downfield. With a weak arm, he can't complete passes downfield. The bottom line is Charlie is not a winning QB. He didn't win in the worst conference in D-1A and he didn't win with the Browns. That's why Charlie doesn't get on the field...he just isn't a winner.

[skip-zip]

good point skip-zip.They later gave Derek Anderson a better offensive line, and got Edwards and Winslow healthy together, and DA had a good season.Now, the Browns are once gain without receivers or a running game, and even though the OLine is still better now than it was when Charlie was playing, it hasn't been protecting DA (or quinn) very well this year.Now suddenly miracle man seems very very mortalRNK QB RTG YDS/GM1 Peyton Manning, 114.5 3132 Aaron Rodgers, 110.8 2843 Drew Brees, 106.9 2834 Matt Schaub, 104.4 2965 Ben Roethlisberger, 102.6 2956 Brett Favre, 102.2 2407 Kyle Orton, 100.1 2448 Tom Brady, 99.9 2909 Philip Rivers, 96.1 29810 Tony Romo, 94.7 27511 Donovan McNabb, 93.8 20412 Joe Flacco, 93.8 27913 Eli Manning, 92.2 23314 Matt Ryan, 90.2 22715 Carson Palmer, 89.2 23016 Kurt Warner, 89.1 27917 Kevin Kolb, 88.9 18518 Matt Hasselbeck, 85.0 18219 Jason Campbell, 84.3 20020 David Garrard, 83.9 24421 Jay Cutler, 82.9 24222 Seneca Wallace, 82.6 12923 Shaun Hill, 79.6 15724 Chad Henne, 76.5 16525 Matt Cassel, 73.2 16626 Trent Edwards, 73.0 16427 Marc Bulger, 72.5 13028 Byron Leftwich, 71.2 19829 Matthew Stafford, 65.5 22430 Kerry Collins, 62.0 17931 Mark Sanchez, 61.5 16832 Jake Delhomme, 56.5 19533 Josh Johnson, 50.9 11434 JaMarcus Russell, 47.2 12735 Derek Anderson, 40.6 121

Actually....Anderson didn't have a good season in 2007....he had a handful of good GAMES....and those were some pretty awful teams that he padded his stats against that year.Your chart above even further convinces me why more and more Browns fans surely wish they had kept Frye. I never saw Anderson as a guy who was ever going to be accurate enough to complete much more than half of his passes, and he keeps proving me right, and has now reached new lows. Charlie was at 60% as a rookie, and showed it was no fluke by far surpassing it the following year. And again....with a bad supporting cast.

[zen]

That's why Charlie doesn't get on the field...he just isn't a winner.

I'm usually just fine with people having their own opinions, but for some reason you just make me sick. I know I shouldn't have this reaction to a forum poster, but I can't help feeling that you have a real problem with being fair and reasonable.I don't think myself or anyone else here who hopes Charlie does well is expecting him to become Peyton Manning.But just isn't a winner?In particular seem to remember a game against Marshall where Frye displayed amazing heart. He was magic and seemed to will a win in a very hard fought game. And of course, winning MVP of the senior bowl was a fluke too, since he "just isn't a winner"I know those things are anecdotal, but I watched him play and I saw a winner.

[skip-zip]

Despite all of this, Charlie holds one of the highest rookie QB ratings in NFL history....even higher than P. Manning!, along with a very good career completion percentage, and one of the highest single-game ratings in Browns' history. And he could move in the pocket, and run with the ball.

He also holds the record for being the only opening day QB traded the following day after opening day.Anybody can complete a lot of passes in the NFL to guys out of the backfield. The key is completing passes downfield. With a weak arm, he can't complete passes downfield. The bottom line is Charlie is not a winning QB. He didn't win in the worst conference in D-1A and he didn't win with the Browns. That's why Charlie doesn't get on the field...he just isn't a winner.

Maybe you are not a Browns fan. If you were, you would know the entire story behind why Charlie was let go instead of Anderson. The entire time Anderson and Frye were together in Cleveland, barring injury, Frye won the starting job. Every time. As far as your comments about "anybody can complete a lot of passes out of the backfield", you may not know that all of the figures on completions, yardage, average yards, attempts, etc., are ALL taken into consideration when figuring a QB rating. And once again, Charlie's is pretty darn good under the circumstances he was playing under, and very favorable compared to other first and 2nd year QBs.

[zen]

BTW, to be fair, I can't imagine a "charlie Frye Era in Oakland".First, Oakland may pull the plug on Jamarcus Russell for a while, but they are going to have to go back to him.He is too high a pick and signed for too long and too much money to just give up on him.Secondly, I actually don't think that they will start Frye barring an injury or two.Just being realistic.I just disagree with the abject negative perspectives that certain people have about Charlie.

[GJGood]

BTW, to be fair, I can't imagine a "charlie Frye Era in Oakland".First, Oakland may pull the plug on Jamarcus Russell for a while, but they are going to have to go back to him.He is too high a pick and signed for too long and too much money to just give up on him.Secondly, I actually don't think that they will start Frye barring an injury or two.Just being realistic.I just disagree with the abject negative perspectives that certain people have about Charlie.

I totally agree here. Although if Gradkowski was to get hobbled or was entirely ineffective I could see charlie getting on the field and eventually being the #2 guy behind Russell for the remainder of the season. I think the only reason Gradkowski is ahead of Frye is that Gradkowski has played for that offensive coordinator before so he has more experience in that system.

[Zips Win!]

Despite all of this, Charlie holds one of the highest rookie QB ratings in NFL history....even higher than P. Manning!, along with a very good career completion percentage, and one of the highest single-game ratings in Browns' history. And he could move in the pocket, and run with the ball.

He also holds the record for being the only opening day QB traded the following day after opening day.Anybody can complete a lot of passes in the NFL to guys out of the backfield. The key is completing passes downfield. With a weak arm, he can't complete passes downfield. The bottom line is Charlie is not a winning QB. He didn't win in the worst conference in D-1A and he didn't win with the Browns. That's why Charlie doesn't get on the field...he just isn't a winner.

Maybe you are not a Browns fan. If you were, you would know the entire story behind why Charlie was let go instead of Anderson. The entire time Anderson and Frye were together in Cleveland, barring injury, Frye won the starting job. Every time. As far as your comments about "anybody can complete a lot of passes out of the backfield", you may not know that all of the figures on completions, yardage, average yards, attempts, etc., are ALL taken into consideration when figuring a QB rating. And once again, Charlie's is pretty darn good under the circumstances he was playing under, and very favorable compared to other first and 2nd year QBs.

skip-zip- I have to disagree. I was the biggest Frye fan coming out of Akron. I wanted him to succeed more than anyone...Not only for himself, but to help put UA on the national map with a starting NFL. We've had these discussions over the years with GP1 leading the way. While I will never agree with GP1 and the constant "he wasn't a winner at UA, therefore he's a terrible quarterback" logic. I know he didn't have a winning record at UA, but neither did any of the qb's before him. He simply was the best QB at UA in the last 25 years. No one is even a close second in my book...(Although I personally rate Mike Johnson second) Now as far as the NFL is concerned, GP1 is correct. He's awful.. But he's awful because his arm strength in the NFL is "weak", he struggles reading defenses and he always wants to take off and make a play on the run. THis doesn't cut it in the NFL and are the reasons that he is barely hanging on in Oakland, not because he wasn't a winner at UA.He was terrible in CLeveland, awful in Seattle and will lucky to be on a roster by year end. He had (has) three chances in the NFl to take the bull by the horn and become a starting qb ...couldn't hold off DA in Cleveland, an injury prone M. Hasslebeck in Seattle or the awful J. Russell in Oakland....I wish it was different...

[skip-zip]

That's why Charlie doesn't get on the field...he just isn't a winner.

I'm usually just fine with people having their own opinions, but for some reason you just make me sick. I know I shouldn't have this reaction to a forum poster, but I can't help feeling that you have a real problem with being fair and reasonable.I don't think myself or anyone else here who hopes Charlie does well is expecting him to become Peyton Manning.But just isn't a winner?In particular seem to remember a game against Marshall where Frye displayed amazing heart. He was magic and seemed to will a win in a very hard fought game. And of course, winning MVP of the senior bowl was a fluke too, since he "just isn't a winner"I know those things are anecdotal, but I watched him play and I saw a winner.

And....10-2 record his senior year of high school.7 wins and 5 loses his junior year of college.6 wins and 5 loses his senior year of college.If not for the Michigan State / Hawaii debacle, he would have led us to our first-ever D-1A bowl game.Won the MVP in leading the North to victory with an outstanding 2nd half as starter....against many soon-to-be NFL players.Sure looks like a loser to me

[GP1]

That's why Charlie doesn't get on the field...he just isn't a winner.

I'm usually just fine with people having their own opinions, but for some reason you just make me sick. I know I shouldn't have this reaction to a forum poster, but I can't help feeling that you have a real problem with being fair and reasonable.I don't think myself or anyone else here who hopes Charlie does well is expecting him to become Peyton Manning.But just isn't a winner?In particular seem to remember a game against Marshall where Frye displayed amazing heart. He was magic and seemed to will a win in a very hard fought game. And of course, winning MVP of the senior bowl was a fluke too, since he "just isn't a winner"I know those things are anecdotal, but I watched him play and I saw a winner.

And....10-2 record his senior year of high school.7 wins and 5 loses his junior year of college.6 wins and 5 loses his senior year of college.If not for the Michigan State / Hawaii debacle, he would have led us to our first-ever D-1A bowl game.Won the MVP in leading the North to victory with an outstanding 2nd half as starter....against many soon-to-be NFL players.Sure looks like a loser to me

I hate to get into the old Charlie Frye debate, but you are really grasping at straws.High school record...any kid that goes to a D-1A college should have a winning HS record. It's about what he did at UofA. 19 D-1A wins in four years is not impressive....especially in the MAC.His junior year, two of those seven wins were against 1-AA teams. Don't tell me he could have beaten another OOC D-1A team because it just didn't happen. He never beat a BCS level school and both Jacq and Getsy beat them.6-5 his senior year could have easily been 4-8 if Brett Biggs was not placed in the starting line-up.Thanks to Charlie for that bowl game he didn't get us to.MVP of an exhibition game......That's like being MVP of a pre-season football game.The list of things Charlie almost did is much longer than the list of things he did do.

[GP1]

While I will never agree with GP1 and the constant "he wasn't a winner at UA, therefore he's a terrible quarterback" logic. I know he didn't have a winning record at UA, but neither did any of the qb's before him. He simply was the best QB at UA in the last 25 years. No one is even a close second in my book...(Although I personally rate Mike Johnson second) Now as far as the NFL is concerned, GP1 is correct. He's awful.. But he's awful because his arm strength in the NFL is "weak", he struggles reading defenses and he always wants to take off and make a play on the run. THis doesn't cut it in the NFL and are the reasons that he is barely hanging on in Oakland, not because he wasn't a winner at UA.

I'd like to clarify. I don't think I have ever said Charlie is a terrible QB. He was a good college QB, but fell well behind the QB kings of the MAC which were Pennington, Leftwich and Roethlisberger. He just isn't a winner.Being the best QB in school history really isn't saying much. If the Browns today were the Browns in the late 1980s, Mike Johnson could have had the same career as Charlie. Just an opinion because we will never really know. The Browns back then knew what they were doing and the Browns today......even as a Steelers fan, I have to say they are just sad to watch. Charlie getting drafted by the Browns is one of the many examples of how bad that franchise is.I still think that in a league full of horrible QBs, Charlie has 3-4 years remaining in his career. His short time starting really means something. That would make a 8-9 year career which is around 3 times the average.ZipsWin! describes him best:1. Weak arm2. Struggles to read defenses........... (stupid)3. Like to run around........... (panics)

[skip-zip]

That's why Charlie doesn't get on the field...he just isn't a winner.

I'm usually just fine with people having their own opinions, but for some reason you just make me sick. I know I shouldn't have this reaction to a forum poster, but I can't help feeling that you have a real problem with being fair and reasonable.I don't think myself or anyone else here who hopes Charlie does well is expecting him to become Peyton Manning.But just isn't a winner?In particular seem to remember a game against Marshall where Frye displayed amazing heart. He was magic and seemed to will a win in a very hard fought game. And of course, winning MVP of the senior bowl was a fluke too, since he "just isn't a winner"I know those things are anecdotal, but I watched him play and I saw a winner.

And....10-2 record his senior year of high school.7 wins and 5 loses his junior year of college.6 wins and 5 loses his senior year of college.If not for the Michigan State / Hawaii debacle, he would have led us to our first-ever D-1A bowl game.Won the MVP in leading the North to victory with an outstanding 2nd half as starter....against many soon-to-be NFL players.Sure looks like a loser to me

I hate to get into the old Charlie Frye debate, but you are really grasping at straws.High school record...any kid that goes to a D-1A college should have a winning HS record. It's about what he did at UofA. 19 D-1A wins in four years is not impressive....especially in the MAC.His junior year, two of those seven wins were against 1-AA teams. Don't tell me he could have beaten another OOC D-1A team because it just didn't happen. He never beat a BCS level school and both Jacq and Getsy beat them.6-5 his senior year could have easily been 4-8 if Brett Biggs was not placed in the starting line-up.Thanks to Charlie for that bowl game he didn't get us to.MVP of an exhibition game......That's like being MVP of a pre-season football game.The list of things Charlie almost did is much longer than the list of things he did do.

My friend, I know you are a big Zips fan...but you are "grasping at straws" to find the negatives. He did pretty well, under adverse circumstances, and fares favorably well against other NFL QBs while in his first couple of years. Beyond that, maybe you are looking for additional negatives, and I am looking for positives. We both have a different viewpoint on this. And really, neither of us will probably ever know now how things would have turned out had he started his career somewhere else.

[Dave in Green]

I suspect that CF spent too many years with losing football organizations to fairly judge how much of what he is today is based on his innate abilities and how much is based on the loser mentality those organizations drilled into him. I'm curious how the Zips would have fared without CF in the years he was here, and how this year's Zips would have done with CF at QB. I have no illusions that he could have made a big winner out of this year's Zips. But I don't think another 7-5 record would have been out of the question. The 2005 Senior Bowl was significant because it was the only game CF played in since HS where he was not with a losing organization, which made his MVP-winning performance all the more telling.I'd love to see the Akron Zips, Cleveland Browns and Charlie Frye all be successful. But there are many lost years to be overcome.

[you am i]

Charlie was not only MVP of the North-South All-Star game, he was also named captain of the his team. Every player on the field was an outstanding college player, busting his butt to impress the pro scouts, so his performance was impressive. That being said, at this point, its hard to see how he will ever be more than a back-up in the NFL, unless every coach he's had has misjudged his abilities as a pro, which I doubt. But how many college QBs ever attain what he has? Very few. He may hang on for another year or two, and then probably hook up as an assistant college coach.

[skip-zip]

Charlie was not only MVP of the North-South All-Star game, he was also named captain of the his team. Every player on the field was an outstanding college player, busting his butt to impress the pro scouts, so his performance was impressive. That being said, at this point, its hard to see how he will ever be more than a back-up in the NFL, unless every coach he's had has misjudged his abilities as a pro, which I doubt. But how many college QBs ever attain what he has? Very few. He may hang on for another year or two, and then probably hook up as an assistant college coach.

I'm not debating your opinion. Actually, you say some good things here.But, the highlighted statement above would be false. Wasn't he named the starter by 3 different offensive coordinators in Cleveland? You might want to check that.

[Dave in Green]

There are 32 NFL teams, and so only 32 starting QB opportunities at any given time. Most teams have 2 or 3 QBs on their rosters, so there are fewer than 100 QBs being paid at any given time at the highest level of professional football. They are constantly being challenged by an influx of promising new graduates from college teams, the CFL, etc. So it's a pretty elite club, even for those who are not starters.Against those odds, CF produced decent stats as an inexperienced starter with one of the weakest organizations in the NFL. As Skip-Zip points out, CF had to endure the chaos of three different offensive coordinators in a little over two seasons with the Browns. The turmoil in that organization was the worst possible environment for a young, rookie QB from a minor D1 program.We'll never know how CF might have developed in a strong organization with good coaches able to develop him at a slower pace, and with an offensive line that could have given him more time in the pocket when he eventually did play. Maybe he still wouldn't have made it as a longtime starter, and maybe he would have slowly evolved into a respectable leader with a winning record. No one really knows, though that won't stop some from implying they do.Even though it's especially disappointing to Zips fans that CF is on the sidelines instead of on the field, he is now in his 5th year in that small, elite group of QBs who merit 7-figure salaries. Maybe he won't rise any higher, or maybe better opportunities will come his way and he will rise to the occasion.But if he doesn't last another year, he's still accomplished a lot, and deserves all the credit in the world for it.