Butler and The Zips

[Captain Kangaroo]

I guess I'm a little more like Dambrot, and you're a little more like our Promotions Group? Fair enough.

I'm pretty sure that was unnecessary.

No, I think it was necessary. Dambrot constantly beats the drum on what he perceives as poor attendance and poor fan support. I do too. Hence we're alike. To go a step further, KD has a Masters in Marketing, and I have worked in Sales & Marketing for the past 18 years. In that respect I see things through similar glasses as KD.

You don't really care about Joe Akron. Or filling the house. That differs from my point of view, and KD's. Which is fine. I take no offense.

As an Engineer, I assume that when you see a product that is poorly engineered, it bugs you? More so than it might bug a non-Engineer. It's the same with me and how I perceive the promotion of the 2010 basketball season. Nothing more.

As an extension of that example -- UA Marketed the "White Out" game heavily. In response, people showed up in droves, and all bought into the "White Out" concept. If that effort were brought into other UA games this past season, our attendance, and home court advantage, would have increased.

Anthony Stacey, Keith McCloud, Brandon Hunter, Jose Davis, Jeff Penno, Austin Peay & Wisconsin Green Bay...the K.e.n.t. State bludgeonings....yeah, being a Zips basketball fan is f-ing Shangri La.

And I guess you will continue to hold failures of 10 years ago above championships of 2 years ago. You want to dwell on and live in the past, that's your choice.

Penno, Austin Peay, WGB and Can't Statex2 weren't 10 years ago. In fact, four of those pain-examples happened this season (as you know).

Oratorious D.I.G's post inferred Zips Basketball has had no painful losses. I think that statement is laughable. As should any fan of Zips men's hoops.

[Zip Watcher]

Whatever. My issue with your line of discussion is NOT that you have a problem with the promotions, or lack of them. Anyone going to the games (or not going!) knows that these are areas for improvement. I don't differ on that point. My difference from your line of thinking is that you're lumping success of the team with the success or failure of the marketing / promotions. What I read in your sentiments through this thread and elsewhere is: "The hot dogs are cold, the lines are long, Joe Akron doesn't care, therefore, the season wasn't a success."

If the team was 33-2 and lost on a bank shot in the NCAA title game but averaged 1200 a game @ home, is it still a failure because Joe Akron isn't smart enough to know what he's missing? Or because Joe Akron doesn't know that he's missing it? When do the achievements of the team start to factor in to an objective assessment of the season?

This topic started by you with great questions wasn't about "Hey guys, where are we with Butler on toilet paper quality and selection of mustard?" It started with questions surrounding what happened on the floor these last 3 weeks. Others (myself included) observed that to get to Butler status, some things need to be addressed (my opinion: back room team facilities items). Your (self described) rant took it to promotions / marketing .. etc.

So on the original topic, and in general .. I maintain my stance that the team is in great shape .. just had a nice season. Didn't win all the games .. but won most of them. Proud of the guys. Really proud of Conyers. Looking forward to what comes next.

Penno, Austin Peay, WGB and Can't Statex2 weren't 10 years ago. In fact, four of those pain-examples happened this season (as you know).

You and I know that our perspectives on this sort of things will never be in the same neighborhood, much less pointing in the same direction. Recall the Can't State title game a few years ago. I'm ok with that .. it is what it is.

But IMHO this is a clear case of FB Guy judging the BB Program in a different light than he does his FB Program.

Anthony Stacy was ELEVEN years ago, McLeod - 8 years ago, Hunter - 7, Davis - TWELVE .. all with a different program and coach.

They're no more relevant to this season and the current hoops program than the failures of Faust and Owens are to 2010 spring ball. You want to bury the Rubber Bowl past and move forward with the football program? Sure we all do. Might I suggest you do the same with the hoops team?

No one here thinks there's no painful losses in the hoops program. But some here like to marginalize the wins and successes of the program and focus only on those losses, some of which happened YEARS before KD was remotely associated w/ UA. I don't think that's laughable .. I think it's sad.

I'll make a suggestion: If you want to have a season where there's no losses by your basketball team, become a UConn Women's hoops fan. Otherwise, there are going to be losses. Some of them will be painful. When your team is really good .. the losses will feel worse than they did before.

But they don't erase the wins. They don't make irrelevant a MAC title 13 months ago. And they don't make a good 24-11 season a bad season.

Geeze this is way too long to say all this. My apologies.

Ciff Note's Version: You like FB more than BB. I'm the opposite. You remember the BB losses that stung you for a long time, but want us to move past (bury) the RB era for FB. I'm suggesting you do the same for the era between Huggins & Dambrot. We're both all in for the Zips.

Somebody get that tall kid another cheeseburger.

B)

Go Zips!

[Dave in Green]

Oratorious D.I.G's post inferred Zips Basketball has had no painful losses. I think that statement is laughable. As should any fan of Zips men's hoops.

Baloney. Read it again. It does not infer that UA basketball has had NO painful losses, only that UA basketball has had a better overall record than UA football in recent years.

Maybe this thread needs to be split in two -- one for the original topic and one for the ubiquitous BB vs. FB topic.

[eguins]

Akron and Can't both lost to the Horizon League's #3 team at home in Green Bay. Butler was far and away better than Green Bay this season.

At home, you could give Butler a game like YSU did.. It was tied with 7:00 left, but on the road you stand no chance at Hinkle Fieldhouse.

[Captain Kangaroo]

But IMHO this is a clear case of FB Guy judging the BB Program in a different light than he does his FB Program.

BTW - I am 100% as much a Zips basketball fan as you. The fact that I may also enjoy football, does not diminish my support for the hoops program. It's my FB program, and my BB program. I jump just as high when Steve McNees hits a game-winning 3 as I do when Deryn Bowser pulls-in a game-winning TD. I'm equally as devastated when Buffalo beats us at the Rubber Bowl in 4 OT's as I am when Xavier beats us at the JAR in 3 OT's.

Also - I am equally as frustrated with a 1/2 full InfoCision as I am with a 1/2 full JAR.

CK = BB Guy and FB Guy. And an argument can be made for SG too.

I'm a ZW Guy too.

[Zip Watcher]

Understood.

Ali would still be a legend in these parts if one of those shots had fallen.

B)

Go Zips!

[Dr Z]

Ali would still be a legend in these parts if one of those shots had fallen.

I saw him years later sitting behind the hoop at a bball game with a friend. He looked like a legend that night.

[Dave in Green]

..... I'm a ZW Guy too.

The touchy-feely side of the resident curmudgeon is revealed.

[RACER]

i am glad somebody (zipwatcher) feels like i do about the b-ball program.the fans throw every loss that happened

over the last five years.they forget how many games we won,and that we just went to the tourney last year. we only won one out four championship games; so we must need a new coach.they always take a team like butler and try to find a way for the zips to magically do the same thing.Can't went to the final eight.they have not won a ncaa game since.butler is one of 330 teams in the ncaa.with only 64 bids a team will go to the ncaa every 5 1/2 years.butler may not even make the ncaa next year.coaches leaving for more $ to power conferences happens all the time to schools like butler.

my point is that just because a team did something great this year does not mean they will be doing the same thing next year.the way the ncaa is set up makes it difficult for non bcs schools just to get in the tourney.

akron needs to be akron. if somebody thinks they can do a better job coaching akron b.ball fax your resume to the a.d.