MAC vs. C-USA

[johnnyzip84]

I didn't vote because I want an "other" option. I want to join forces with Toledo, Buffalo, Temple as a minimum with possibly Marshall, ECU, and whichever remaining MAC/Eastern C-USA schools who are willing to make the necessary commitment to establish a DECENT FBS league.

[Blue & Gold]

<br />I didn't vote because I want an "other" option. I want to join forces with Toledo, Buffalo, Temple as a minimum with possibly Marshall, ECU, and whichever remaining MAC/Eastern C-USA schools who are willing to make the necessary commitment to establish a DECENT FBS league.<br />

I was thinking the same. Also, there may be some leftover Big East teams to join this group.

[Zip Watcher]

I didn't vote because I want an "other" option. I want to join forces with Toledo, Buffalo, Temple as a minimum with possibly Marshall, ECU, and whichever remaining MAC/Eastern C-USA schools who are willing to make the necessary commitment to establish a DECENT FBS league.

I like the line of thinking, but do believe it needs to get to 12 teams pretty darn quickly to make it work. The extra coin for the title game does matter.

So from the MAC:

UA

U@B

UT

TU

From C-USA

Marshall

ECU

Southern Miss

UAB

From Sun Belt

WKU

MTSU

It's hard to find 2 additional teams from the Sun Belt. At first, I thought that you'd need to have 4 teams from 3 conferences so that there's an initial balance of historical power, but it may be infeasible. I guess you could grab Troy .. but I'd think it be easier if you were finding one or 2 defections than finding 4. C-USA could be in shambles .. so those 4 are the eastern half of what would be left if Memphis and UCF go East. WKU & MTSU have a long standing rivalry, haven't been in the Sun Belt forever, and are on the northern end of the league. The MAC hosed that up big time several years ago when they could have drawn them in instead of Temple. None of these conversations would be happening if they had drawn WKU into the league for hoops and kept a balanced FB schedule.

So this league (not my personal priorty BTW) would look something like this, with NO divisions, a full round robin 9 game FB schedule and 18 game home & home for hoops:

UA

U@B

Temple

Toledo

UAB

Southern Miss

Western Kentucky

Middle Tennessee

East Carolina

Marshall

The geographic spread looks something like this.

[Spin]

how will they attract fans in such an apathetic sports community

Explain that to the Akron Aeros, one of the most popular teams in minor league baseball (despite not being AAA).

Explain that to the Cleveland Force, while in Summit County they were the ONLY profitable soccer franchise in North America at that time. Maybe the most profitable of all time.

Now, compare that to the Ted Stepien Cavs, who lost 67 games and drew 1500 people to games.

Akron-Canton is STARVED for a well marketed winner. And they won't walk across the street to see CRAP if it was free.

[johnnyzip84]

I didn't vote because I want an "other" option. I want to join forces with Toledo, Buffalo, Temple as a minimum with possibly Marshall, ECU, and whichever remaining MAC/Eastern C-USA schools who are willing to make the necessary commitment to establish a DECENT FBS league.

I like the line of thinking, but do believe it needs to get to 12 teams pretty darn quickly to make it work. The extra coin for the title game does matter.

So from the MAC:

UA

U@B

UT

TU

From C-USA

Marshall

ECU

Southern Miss

UAB

From Sun Belt

WKU

MTSU

It's hard to find 2 additional teams from the Sun Belt. At first, I thought that you'd need to have 4 teams from 3 conferences so that there's an initial balance of historical power, but it may be infeasible. I guess you could grab Troy .. but I'd think it be easier if you were finding one or 2 defections than finding 4. C-USA could be in shambles .. so those 4 are the eastern half of what would be left if Memphis and UCF go East. WKU & MTSU have a long standing rivalry, haven't been in the Sun Belt forever, and are on the northern end of the league. The MAC hosed that up big time several years ago when they could have drawn them in instead of Temple. None of these conversations would be happening if they had drawn WKU into the league for hoops and kept a balanced FB schedule.

So this league (not my personal priorty BTW) would look something like this, with NO divisions, a full round robin 9 game FB schedule and 18 game home & home for hoops:

UA

U@B

Temple

Toledo

UAB

Southern Miss

Western Kentucky

Middle Tennessee

East Carolina

Marshall

The geographic spread looks something like this.

That's a lot like what I was envisioning. Maybe OU and Charlotte (starting football in 2013) would round things off nicely for a 12 team league?

[xu9697]

I didn't vote because I want an "other" option. I want to join forces with Toledo, Buffalo, Temple as a minimum with possibly Marshall, ECU, and whichever remaining MAC/Eastern C-USA schools who are willing to make the necessary commitment to establish a DECENT FBS league.

In full agreement!

Along with that, when this big conference thing shakes out, I would not mind the thought of adding Navy and Army as football schools only (mostly b/c I doubt they would do more than that).

Akron, Toledo, Buffalo, Temple, Army, Navy, Marshall, Western Kentucky (nice b-ball program, newer/renovated stadium), Troy, ECU, Southern Miss, UAB, etc.

Again, it is so tough to predict right now what these leagues will look like. And really, I, like GP1 (or at least similar) have been calling for perhaps a Tier 1 and Tier 2 FBS schools type situation.

A lot is going to change in the next 4 to 5 years. We need to be ready to pounce on the best opportunity available. Make fun of NE Ohio all you will, but it is still a large population pool and relatively big market when considering the whole picture. Not to mention the talent pool football wise (b-ball and soccer not bad either!) that it can help to bring into a conference with Akron on board.

[vmd9]

I didn't vote because I want an "other" option. I want to join forces with Toledo, Buffalo, Temple as a minimum with possibly Marshall, ECU, and whichever remaining MAC/Eastern C-USA schools who are willing to make the necessary commitment to establish a DECENT FBS league.

If a conference had Buffalo and Toledo in it, there's no way it would be a decent FBS conference

[xu9697]

I didn't vote because I want an "other" option. I want to join forces with Toledo, Buffalo, Temple as a minimum with possibly Marshall, ECU, and whichever remaining MAC/Eastern C-USA schools who are willing to make the necessary commitment to establish a DECENT FBS league.

If a conference had Buffalo and Toledo in it, there's no way it would be a decent FBS conference

The same could be said about Akron, sadly.

[johnnyzip84]

I didn't vote because I want an "other" option. I want to join forces with Toledo, Buffalo, Temple as a minimum with possibly Marshall, ECU, and whichever remaining MAC/Eastern C-USA schools who are willing to make the necessary commitment to establish a DECENT FBS league.

If a conference had Buffalo and Toledo in it, there's no way it would be a decent FBS conference

I'll admit, I'd like to see U@B involved based mostly on athletic and market POTENTIAL. But I have no idea why some people of this board don't respect Toledo football. They are historically a winning program. They are one of the few MAC teams that routinely knocks off BCS teams, and this has pretty much always been the case. Don't be shocked when they beat Arizona at the Glass Bowl in 2010. If there's ONE MAC football program that should be clamoring to jump ship it's UT.

[g-mann17]

I didn't vote because I want an "other" option. I want to join forces with Toledo, Buffalo, Temple as a minimum with possibly Marshall, ECU, and whichever remaining MAC/Eastern C-USA schools who are willing to make the necessary commitment to establish a DECENT FBS league.

If a conference had Buffalo and Toledo in it, there's no way it would be a decent FBS conference

I'll admit, I'd like to see U@B involved based mostly on athletic and market POTENTIAL. But I have no idea why some people of this board don't respect Toledo football. They are historically a winning program. They are one of the few MAC teams that routinely knocks off BCS teams, and this has pretty much always been the case. Don't be shocked when they beat Arizona at the Glass Bowl in 2010. If there's ONE MAC football program that should be clamoring to jump ship it's UT.

Yep and dirty bookies are clamoring for it too.

[vmd9]

I didn't vote because I want an "other" option. I want to join forces with Toledo, Buffalo, Temple as a minimum with possibly Marshall, ECU, and whichever remaining MAC/Eastern C-USA schools who are willing to make the necessary commitment to establish a DECENT FBS league.

If a conference had Buffalo and Toledo in it, there's no way it would be a decent FBS conference

The same could be said about Akron, sadly.

The only advantage we have is our facilities. You can't help but laugh when you look at all the rest of the MAC compared to us.

[xu9697]

I didn't vote because I want an "other" option. I want to join forces with Toledo, Buffalo, Temple as a minimum with possibly Marshall, ECU, and whichever remaining MAC/Eastern C-USA schools who are willing to make the necessary commitment to establish a DECENT FBS league.

If a conference had Buffalo and Toledo in it, there's no way it would be a decent FBS conference

The same could be said about Akron, sadly.

The only advantage we have is our facilities. You can't help but laugh when you look at all the rest of the MAC compared to us.

I think we have lots of advantages, and I think we can get strong. But you need to keep in mind that Toledo just built a nice indoor facitlity for football, and they still get some nice opponents coming to the Glass Bowl. They have a solid history as well..and then some really bad stuff recently.

Buffalo, if the Bills move, could become the main football program in that town. And, I get the feeling they will improve their facilities even more in the future.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Football-wise, Buffalo was a blight on the MAC (and that is tough to accomplish) for years...until Turner Gill. Then they were actually something the MAC could be a little proud of?

Toledo was a flagship football program for years...then recently went in the crapper.

Time will tell if Buffalo just got lucky, or if they are on to something good.

I'm not worried about Toledo football. It will be back. The school is committed to winning.

[vmd9]

I didn't vote because I want an "other" option. I want to join forces with Toledo, Buffalo, Temple as a minimum with possibly Marshall, ECU, and whichever remaining MAC/Eastern C-USA schools who are willing to make the necessary commitment to establish a DECENT FBS league.

If a conference had Buffalo and Toledo in it, there's no way it would be a decent FBS conference

The same could be said about Akron, sadly.

The only advantage we have is our facilities. You can't help but laugh when you look at all the rest of the MAC compared to us.

I think we have lots of advantages, and I think we can get strong. But you need to keep in mind that Toledo just built a nice indoor facitlity for football, and they still get some nice opponents coming to the Glass Bowl. They have a solid history as well..and then some really bad stuff recently.

Buffalo, if the Bills move, could become the main football program in that town. And, I get the feeling they will improve their facilities even more in the future.

Well you can say that we are the main football program for our town and actually Buffalo is not very much bigger than Akron. I know they are both in the 200,000s

[GP1]

I didn't vote because I want an "other" option. I want to join forces with Toledo, Buffalo, Temple as a minimum with possibly Marshall, ECU, and whichever remaining MAC/Eastern C-USA schools who are willing to make the necessary commitment to establish a DECENT FBS league.

In full agreement!

Along with that, when this big conference thing shakes out, I would not mind the thought of adding Navy and Army as football schools only (mostly b/c I doubt they would do more than that).

Akron, Toledo, Buffalo, Temple, Army, Navy, Marshall, Western Kentucky (nice b-ball program, newer/renovated stadium), Troy, ECU, Southern Miss, UAB, etc.

Again, it is so tough to predict right now what these leagues will look like. And really, I, like GP1 (or at least similar) have been calling for perhaps a Tier 1 and Tier 2 FBS schools type situation.

A lot is going to change in the next 4 to 5 years. We need to be ready to pounce on the best opportunity available. Make fun of NE Ohio all you will, but it is still a large population pool and relatively big market when considering the whole picture. Not to mention the talent pool football wise (b-ball and soccer not bad either!) that it can help to bring into a conference with Akron on board.

Both good points.

Temple is not long for the MAC. I would go as far as to say as if the Big East had teams leave, they would take a long, hard look at bringing Temple back regardless of what happened in the past. The ACC now has a team as far north as Boston College. UCONN and Temple would make excellent choices for the ACC. It would round out New England and bring in a HUGE media market in Philadelphia.

As far as Army and Navy, whatever conference we are in needs to be an "all or nothing" conference. Either schools are committed to being in the MAC or not. If they aren't, then no thanks. If they are, then they would be good additions.

Separating D-1A is the best way to make college football better and schools better able to compete at their own level. My brilliant and foresight full commentary on this issue in the past year is the kind of reading NCAA leaders should be reading if they really want to reform college football in a meaningful way. If the choose not to take my brilliant advice, then let them wallow in their own stupidity. I don't know why everyone has to suffer because people involved in college athletics are so stupid.

[Spin]

So, explain to me, other than a National Champion (which the BCS does a horrible job at anyway) what is the difference between having Division IA split up, and having Division IA "mid-major" conferences with mid-major schools, like Akron and the MAC? Exactly what's the difference?

So you take the lower half of Division 1A, in football you play for a conference win and a shot at a bowl game. You already got that. Except mid-majors can't play a big time school for a big payday, a big part of the budget at many schools.

In basketball and soccer, you lose your chances at playing in the NCAA IA tournament. Butler, Gonzaga, Siena, Cornell, Northern Iowa, no longer can make the Dance. Akron soccer can no longer play in the NCAA Div I Championship.

I just don't see what that would accomplish.

[eguins]

Missouri Valley Football Conference

[GP1]

So, explain to me, other than a National Champion (which the BCS does a horrible job at anyway) what is the difference between having Division IA split up, and having Division IA "mid-major" conferences with mid-major schools, like Akron and the MAC? Exactly what's the difference?

So you take the lower half of Division 1A, in football you play for a conference win and a shot at a bowl game. You already got that. Except mid-majors can't play a big time school for a big payday, a big part of the budget at many schools.

In basketball and soccer, you lose your chances at playing in the NCAA IA tournament. Butler, Gonzaga, Siena, Cornell, Northern Iowa, no longer can make the Dance. Akron soccer can no longer play in the NCAA Div I Championship.

I just don't see what that would accomplish.

Please go back in my posts and find my brilliant explaination for how they should divide up college football with the best teams of the past 40 years.

[Spin]

Nah, instead of fighting flood control and wondering through almost 3000 posts to find one that may or may not be remotely related to my question, I'll hold out for someone to actually answer the question.

How would a team of UA's size and budget playing in a MAC-type conference of similar sized and budgeted teams benefit from dropping down to Division 1A.5? What would they have there that they don't have now in Division 1A?

Isn't it more fun to go to bowl games? To play the Big Ten school every year? For a Toledo to knock off a Michigan every now and then? A WMU to beat an Illinois AND Iowa? It is for the accountants...

[GP1]

Isn't it more fun to go to bowl games? To play the Big Ten school every year? For a Toledo to knock off a Michigan every now and then? A WMU to beat an Illinois AND Iowa? It is for the accountants...

It is for a lot of reasons the BCS teams want it as it is. Instead of a BCS team playing one other BCS level team and three cupcakes at the beginning of the year to fill their pockets, they would actually have to compete against top level competition every week. Look at the winners of the SEC, PAC10 and Big 12....does anyone really think they would want to play one another the first three games of the following season? Close to home, does tOSU want to play USC, Navy, Can't and OU? Or do they want to play Alabama, USC and Texas the first three games of the season. They want the cupcakes because it gives them three practice games played at home before conference games.

Is it fun to go to bowl games? Yes, we almost never go so I almost forget how fun it is. The bowls could remain in place for the non-top 40 teams if it makes the fans feel good. From the looks of the stands in MAC bowl games, I don't think people are too excited about the games we go to anyhow. Nobody goes.

Is it fun to play Big Ten teams every year? No, it is a complete waste of time serving only to pad the pockets of the schools and giving MAC schools 1-3 starts to seasons. If the NCAA is interested in competition in lieu of money, the Top 40 conference makes sense.

Are upsets fun? Yes, too bad they are few and far between and getting worse.

[Blue & Gold]

Isn't it more fun to go to bowl games? To play the Big Ten school every year? For a Toledo to knock off a Michigan every now and then? A WMU to beat an Illinois AND Iowa? It is for the accountants...

It is for a lot of reasons the BCS teams want it as it is. Instead of a BCS team playing one other BCS level team and three cupcakes at the beginning of the year to fill their pockets, they would actually have to compete against top level competition every week. Look at the winners of the SEC, PAC10 and Big 12....does anyone really think they would want to play one another the first three games of the following season? Close to home, does tOSU want to play USC, Navy, Can't and OU? Or do they want to play Alabama, USC and Texas the first three games of the season. They want the cupcakes because it gives them three practice games played at home before conference games.

Is it fun to go to bowl games? Yes, we almost never go so I almost forget how fun it is. The bowls could remain in place for the non-top 40 teams if it makes the fans feel good. From the looks of the stands in MAC bowl games, I don't think people are too excited about the games we go to anyhow. Nobody goes.

Is it fun to play Big Ten teams every year? No, it is a complete waste of time serving only to pad the pockets of the schools and giving MAC schools 1-3 starts to seasons. If the NCAA is interested in competition in lieu of money, the Top 40 conference makes sense.

Are upsets fun? Yes, too bad they are few and far between and getting worse.

I would love to see the mid-majors simply ban together for one or two seasons and refuse to play the BCS schools non-conference. Force them to play each other. Then I'd assume we'd have more unbeaten mid-majors as well as less unbeaten BCS schools. This would probably force the pollsters to include more mid-majors in the Top 25.

Also, if a program like the one you propose were instituted, I'd hope it was an open system and not set-in-stone, so to speak. Some kind of point system where the bottom handful of teams from the BCS-40 (?) and the top handful of teams from the Non-BCS-40 would switch out. This would give programs the opportunity to better themselves, i.e., no caste system.

Would the model of your proposed system allow for that?

Doesn't the european soccer circuit do something like this? Each team has to have a certain # of points to be in the "major leagues"? Z.I.P.?

If the system would be open/fluid, I think I'd be for it. However, if the system were a caste system, I think I'd be against it. This is simply because I wouldn't be half as interested in Zip football if we were currently an FCS school. There's just something about trying to compete @ the highest level.

I'd much rather be in the FBS Top 25 than be FCS national champ.

[GP1]

Also, if a program like the one you propose were instituted, I'd hope it was an open system and not set-in-stone, so to speak. Some kind of point system where the bottom handful of teams from the BCS-40 (?) and the top handful of teams from the Non-BCS-40 would switch out. This would give programs the opportunity to better themselves, i.e., no caste system.

Inclusion into the top 40 would be voluntary. Nobody would be forced to join and anybody could leave whenever they wanted. Other could apply to take their spot.

I guess one modification could be that if a team finishes last place in their division for "X" number of years straight, they get the boot.

[GP1]

There's just something about trying to compete @ the highest level.

There is a difference in "trying" to compete and the actual ability to compete week in and week out. The further I got away from the MAC, the more I realized how unrealistic it is to believe the league can compete every week at the highest level. There will always be cases when MAC schools beat BCS schools. I would argue that many of those BCS schools wouldn't make the top 40 of my list. The year we beat NC State, I think they finished the season with only 3 or 4 wins. I'd have to go back and look at my original post, but I don't think NC State was in the top 40.

[scottditzen]

I waited a week to think this over.

I finally chose CUSA.

The MAC- I really like the conference for several reasons. The close proximity of the schools is terrific but I also think it keeps interest in the schools/games bottled up, restricted to the region.

The deciding factor: I see the CUSA schools as more committed to upgrading the visibility and quality of their sports. Plus there is the fact we can still keep up our rivalry with Can't State.

The MAC has had many, many years to get things going, and they just haven't done it.

[Wally B]

There's just something about trying to compete @ the highest level.

There is a difference in "trying" to compete and the actual ability to compete week in and week out. The further I got away from the MAC, the more I realized how unrealistic it is to believe the league can compete every week at the highest level. There will always be cases when MAC schools beat BCS schools. I would argue that many of those BCS schools wouldn't make the top 40 of my list. The year we beat NC State, I think they finished the season with only 3 or 4 wins. I'd have to go back and look at my original post, but I don't think NC State was in the top 40.

I don't thinks that's the point. Toledo, Miami, Northwestern, Indiana, Vandy who ever you pick, the will never compete week in week-out with the OSU's. It's not about a super difficult schedule made up of the top teams.... that's the NFL! For most programs it's about supporting your alma matter, hometown or in-state/regional team...... or the one with the nicest threads Top teams need the mids and bcs patsies to pad their schedules and make money. If they play a lot of FCS's they look like gits! For the mids it's still about rooting for your team win or lose. If you ever believed Akron was meant to compete w/ the likes tOSU week in week out in fb you were either ignorant or delusional. If your id dictates rooting for a perennial championship contender then move on and start cheering for the bucks on the side. It's OK, we all do it from time to time. Just don't imply that teams should be eliminated from competition due to inequities of the past. Change comes in small steps over long periods of time. Boisie has done a great job of moving up. Syracuse and Washington have done a great job of moving down. Will Akron get its chance?? time will tell, but they will always be my school, my town, my team!!!

As for MAC/CUSA? I voted MAC because i don't see the benefits of CUSA. Akron and the MAC are tied together with strong rivalries. Akron/Can't BG/UT MU/OU etc. I don't see those splitting up in any realignment. While i somewhat avoid these threads i will say a new conference for the Zips is not out of the question as long as it satisfies the following criteria

1) Includes Can't (obvious), Ohio (Ozone, proximity, alumni, recent bb/fb rivalry type games) proximal CUSA teams Marshall (former budding rival and Rbowl bi**h) East Carolina (good program and located NC not TX) and remnant Big East FB members.

2) All-in includes soccer!

Obviously these two are mutually exclusive given the elimination of Cants soccer program. Either way it is all highly doubtfull. Till then the MAC is right for the Zips!