Is Akron a soccer city?

[skip-zip]

What I meant was the fact of not attendance, but the "buzz" of the city of Akron...I have to admit, i set myself up for a No answer because it will be always bad football before great soccer for attendance numbers...

I just can't get going with bad football...If I had a choice to work on a day of a football game, or a soccer game, I'll work on the day that the game will be less entertaining, and what i mean by entertaining, is by which game will we have the best shot to win...

Why should I watch 2 hours of bad football like I did last year when I could of been working?

You'd enjoy 2 hours of bad football a lot more if you combined it with 4 additional hours of good tailgating

[Z.I.P.]

Not to belittle our soccer program in any way, but please put all of this into perspective.

Think about how many people were at our soccer games last year because they wanted to see an undefeated, nationally-ranked Zips athletic squad on their way to possibly winning a national championship? I think you would be way off the mark to conclude that they were just "soccer fans waiting for a team to get behind".

What attendance record did the Cleveland Caps break? What was their attendance? I have to be honest. I have never heard of the Cleveland Caps.

There were a lot of bandwagon jumpers there, for sure. Just looking for a winner. But judging by what a lot of fans were wearing to the games, what they were talking about there, their demographic, I have to disagree. I was there (a common theme when we talk about soccer here, if you haven't figured out yet).

The Caps (short for Whitecaps) were owned by retired pro player Mike Sweeney. They played in 1997 and 98 in what was then "D3", now the USL's Second Division. In 1997 they played at Byers Field. The led D3 in attendance, breaking single game and season attendance records. They played an exhibition against the Columbus Crew and packed the place. I had season tickets. (See, there it is again).

In 1998 the league threw down a rule that teams could not play on artificial turf. Mike tried to find a natural turf stadium to play in, the team bounced around the county, and attendance plummeted. Unable to secure a suitable venue for 1999, Mike decided not to field a team.

This was the first D3 team in Cleveland the league screwed up.

Awful football beats "great" soccer any day of the week

So if the soccer program wasn't limited in the number of tickets it sold last year, you don't think they could have gotten 10,000 people for the NCAA Tournament and outdrew the E Mich game? The Force use to draw 20,000 for INDOOR soccer. They drew that many to the RB for an EXHIBITION game.

Been there, saw that, still got the T-shirt. I've been watching soccer for 30 years, at the local level and world wide. You better bring more than chest pounding to get something like that past me...

You go Spin! I gotta admit, I never heard of the Cleveland Whitecaps either, but I know I would have been in the stands with you if I hadn't moved before ITZ & RFR were born. Where is Byers Field, and what is capacity? Hard to imagine the Force playing to over 20k at the RB -- who was the opponent? The only Cleveland team I remember playing outdoors was the Stars (or Comets?) in the 70s. Was that the American Soccer League? The big red-head English striker from Akron was the Rookie of the Year in the league -- then it went into oblivion and took the entire US pro soccer game with it.

I do know, because I followed a team in probably the same league (Hawaii Tsunami), that what you are calling "D3" was when minor league soccer was ruled by the United States System of Soccer Leagues (USSSL). The USL only came into existence sometime after 2000. And who knows what they call the minors today.

So, how many people do you think would show up to watch an American football game in Nottingham? That's a real lol!

[Spin]

I do remember Mike Sweeney. I just never heard of the Whitecaps, or ever heard anyone talk about them, so thanks for hte info. You say that they broke attendance records. But seriously, how many fans were they drawing?

Keep in mind the Caps were a minor league soccer team (semipro) with a minor league marketing budget. It did make the sports page, and a spot on WKNR when it was first announced. It never got the publicity the City Stars did later. But soccer fans found it. In record numbers.

It's like when the Aeros broke attendance records. We're not talking New York Yankee attendance numbers, nor a NY Yankee marketing budget. But comparing apples to apples, the Aeros are/were one of the top five minor league draws, even though they are third tier.

I disagree that the Zips could have drawn 10,000 for a soccer game. And I was at some of those highly-attended games last year myself. If thousands of people were standing at the gate getting turned away, I missed it.

The games sold out five days before the game. You can't just look at who was there and say "Man, this is all we can draw" when a majority of the fans were unable to get tickets. Let alone the big walk-up crowd. When the news says the game is sold out, you're not going to show up and stand in line to get tickets. Well, I hope you don't

You can ignore the Force if you want, or make excuses why they were popular, doesn't change the fact they existed, or that there are a L O T of soccer fans in Northeast Ohio. Something that nobody has shown one bit of a reason to prove there isn't. Just a bunch of myopic opinions.

[Spin]

Hard to imagine the Force playing to over 20k at the RB -- who was the opponent?

There were three games, one was against the Ft. Lauderdale Strikers. IIRC that's the one that drew 10,000. I was comparing it to the "bad football game" last year that drew less.

If these guys aren't soccer fans, we don't want them there anyhow. It's hard enough getting tickets the way it is.

The only Cleveland team I remember playing outdoors was the Stars (or Comets?) in the 70s. Was that the American Soccer League? The big red-head English striker from Akron was the Rookie of the Year in the league -- then it went into oblivion and took the entire US pro soccer game with it.

The Cobras!!! My first exposure to the world's sport.

Who was that???? Benny Dargle? Conrad Earnest? It wasn't Schlothauer, he went to CSU. That one has me thinking!!!

[bigsix0]

The Cleveland Force was definitely a rarity that I don't think anyone can explain, other than the fact that every other Cleveland sports team stunk at the time, and they were winning?? What??

The Cavs and Browns were both at their peaks in the mid to late 80"s when the Force attendance was peaking. There was plenty of competition for the sports entertainment dollar.

[skip-zip]

I do remember Mike Sweeney. I just never heard of the Whitecaps, or ever heard anyone talk about them, so thanks for hte info. You say that they broke attendance records. But seriously, how many fans were they drawing?

Keep in mind the Caps were a minor league soccer team (semipro) with a minor league marketing budget. It did make the sports page, and a spot on WKNR when it was first announced. It never got the publicity the City Stars did later. But soccer fans found it. In record numbers.

It's like when the Aeros broke attendance records. We're not talking New York Yankee attendance numbers, nor a NY Yankee marketing budget. But comparing apples to apples, the Aeros are/were one of the top five minor league draws, even though they are third tier.

I disagree that the Zips could have drawn 10,000 for a soccer game. And I was at some of those highly-attended games last year myself. If thousands of people were standing at the gate getting turned away, I missed it.

The games sold out five days before the game. You can't just look at who was there and say "Man, this is all we can draw" when a majority of the fans were unable to get tickets. Let alone the big walk-up crowd. When the news says the game is sold out, you're not going to show up and stand in line to get tickets. Well, I hope you don't

You can ignore the Force if you want, or make excuses why they were popular, doesn't change the fact they existed, or that there are a L O T of soccer fans in Northeast Ohio. Something that nobody has shown one bit of a reason to prove there isn't. Just a bunch of myopic opinions.

I'm not trying to discredit your feelings as a soccer fan. But again, put all of this into perspective. You again should ask yourself, were those Force game attendees "soccer fans just dying for a team to support"? Or, sports fans jumping on the opportunity to be a part of the only Cleveland professional team at the time with a chance to win a national title? If you're being honest with yourself, I think you'd find most of them to be the latter.

If anyone really thought that the current NE Ohio fan base contained all of these so-called "soccer fans", who were just yearning to have a team to support, and would show up as 20,000 strong, every game.....don't you think there's would have been another pro soccer team in this area a long time ago? It sounds like a no-brainer of an investment by a team owner to me.

Since high school sports are so popular in this area, use that as a guage. If these "soccer fans" are out there, they'd probably find a good high school game to be appealing, and I don't hear about them flooding into the area high school soccer games.

As far as Zips soccer goes, I know all about them having to stop the sale of tickets several days in advance for a few of our games last year. But, they were limiting the sales to about 3,000, and a little more during the tournament games with the temporary bleachers. And in a couple of cases, they let that stretch another day or two, and let a couple hundred more tickets sell. But, if your projection of 10,000 were true, you'd have to assume about 7,000 or so people got turned away. It didn't happen. And just for the sake of your point, lets assume that 10,000 people did show up. Would you assume that they were "soccer fans"?

[Spin]

I'm not trying to discredit your feelings as a soccer fan. But again, put all of this into perspective. You again should ask yourself, were those Force game attendees "soccer fans just dying for a team to support"? Or, sports fans jumping on the opportunity to be a part of the only Cleveland professional team at the time with a chance to win a national title? If you're being honest with yourself, I think you'd find most of them to be the latter.

To be honest, many hardcore soccer fans HATED indoor soccer as a gimick, as a bastardation of the sport, on and on. And there were a lot of bandwagon jumper at those games. But you have to look at the fan base. Did we see fans wearing Euro jerseys and National Team jerseys> Did we see several youth teams? Were they talking about the latest gossip on Maradonna?

If anyone really thought that the current NE Ohio fan base contained all of these so-called "soccer fans", who were just yearning to have a team to support, and would show up as 20,000 strong, every game.....don't you think there's would have been another pro soccer team in this area a long time ago? It sounds like a no-brainer of an investment by a team owner to me.

Well, we sustained indoor soccer for decades. Bert Wolstein was trying very hard to get an MLS team for the region. Problem there I'm sure you know, is you need a stadium with natural turf with decent seating. He had to build that himself as well as build the team. Unfortunately he didn't live long enough to see it through.

Since high school sports are so popular in this area, use that as a guage. If these "soccer fans" are out there, they'd probably find a good high school game to be appealing, and I don't hear about them flooding into the area high school soccer games.

You'd think we'd see a lot of people at high school baseball games. And college baseball games. We have six different levels of pro teams in Ohio, there are obviously baseball fans (and people looking for entertainment). But they don't go to high school games.

As far as Zips soccer goes, I know all about them having to stop the sale of tickets several days in advance for a few of our games last year. But, they were limiting the sales to about 3,000, and a little more during the tournament games with the temporary bleachers. And in a couple of cases, they let that stretch another day or two, and let a couple hundred more tickets sell. But, if your projection of 10,000 were true, you'd have to assume about 7,000 or so people got turned away. It didn't happen. And just for the sake of your point, lets assume that 10,000 people did show up. Would you assume that they were "soccer fans"?

Where's your proof it didn't happen? With the team talked about on the news and in the papers, on the radio, why wouldn't they draw half as many as the "gimick" team did years ago? Especially considering the growth of the sport at the lower levels since then.

Good discussion.

I already said a good portion would be bandwagon jumpers. A good portion would love soccer.

[Z.I.P.]

As far as Zips soccer goes, I know all about them having to stop the sale of tickets several days in advance for a few of our games last year. But, they were limiting the sales to about 3,000, and a little more during the tournament games with the temporary bleachers. And in a couple of cases, they let that stretch another day or two, and let a couple hundred more tickets sell. But, if your projection of 10,000 were true, you'd have to assume about 7,000 or so people got turned away. It didn't happen. And just for the sake of your point, lets assume that 10,000 people did show up. Would you assume that they were "soccer fans"?

Skip-Zip, I've been reading your comments, and trying hard not to get drawn into what to me sounds like trolling, but I would really like to understand your logic. I don't personally think Ohio is a very good market for sports in general --with obvious exceptions like Bucknutz FB and BB, which gets tons of free publicity and the belief that failing to support it is "unpatriotic". However the statement about how many attendees at a game are "soccer fans" mystifies me. Are you trying to say that the sport can only draw if it is successful? Well, duh! Maybe UA could average around 20,000 in their new football stadium, if they were MAC champions or contenders. Does that mean most of those wouldn't be "real football fans", just bandwagon joiners? I'll try to keep as objective a perspective on this discussion as I can, considering I have pretty much given up on any football game that isn't The Beautiful Game. Sorry about that. Maybe if alma mater becomes a force worth paying attention to, I'll come back.

[Z.I.P.]

The only Cleveland team I remember playing outdoors was the Stars (or Comets?) in the 70s. Was that the American Soccer League? The big red-head English striker from Akron was the Rookie of the Year in the league -- then it went into oblivion and took the entire US pro soccer game with it.

The Cobras!!! My first exposure to the world's sport.

Who was that???? Benny Dargle? Conrad Earnest? It wasn't Schlothauer, he went to CSU. That one has me thinking!!!

Cleveland Cobras! Right. Thanks. The name of the English striker will come to me, probably as I'm falling asleep tonight. He was about 6-6 and rail thin. Played for Coach Parker I think in the early 80's. The ASL went under about 1984 or 85 as I recall. I think he played a season in Jacksonville, and I recall hearing years ago that he was coaching in Fla.

[skip-zip]

As far as Zips soccer goes, I know all about them having to stop the sale of tickets several days in advance for a few of our games last year. But, they were limiting the sales to about 3,000, and a little more during the tournament games with the temporary bleachers. And in a couple of cases, they let that stretch another day or two, and let a couple hundred more tickets sell. But, if your projection of 10,000 were true, you'd have to assume about 7,000 or so people got turned away. It didn't happen. And just for the sake of your point, lets assume that 10,000 people did show up. Would you assume that they were "soccer fans"?

Skip-Zip, I've been reading your comments, and trying hard not to get drawn into what to me sounds like trolling, but I would really like to understand your logic. I don't personally think Ohio is a very good market for sports in general --with obvious exceptions like Bucknutz FB and BB, which gets tons of free publicity and the belief that failing to support it is "unpatriotic". However the statement about how many attendees at a game are "soccer fans" mystifies me. Are you trying to say that the sport can only draw if it is successful? Well, duh! Maybe UA could average around 20,000 in their new football stadium, if they were MAC champions or contenders. Does that mean most of those wouldn't be "real football fans", just bandwagon joiners? I'll try to keep as objective a perspective on this discussion as I can, considering I have pretty much given up on any football game that isn't The Beautiful Game. Sorry about that. Maybe if alma mater becomes a force worth paying attention to, I'll come back.

No, not "successful". i'm not sure how long you've been around, but our soccer program has already been "successful" for decades. But last year, we had the ultimate honor of being undefeated and ranked #1 in the nation.

If you go back, you'll see that I participated in this thread to dispute the point that NE Ohio is full of soccer fans just "waiting for a team to get behind". And I don't see that. I see the spike in attendance last year being mostly attributed to people just wanting to be a part of a possible national championship run by a Zips athletic team.

[GP1]

It really doesn't matter how good a soccer team is, you'll never be able to draw more than a few thousand people to watch it. Awful football beats "great" soccer any day of the week in America.

Maybe I'm just being an ugly American, but I agree. I just don't get soccer and I like a lot of sports that some might consider to be strange...ie: rugby and Australian football. Curling is frankly more exciting. I get that the players are talented at what they do, which seems to me to be flopping around on the ground, running long distances, bouncing the ball off of their heads and kicking the ball really far without any reason for doing it or care for where it is going.

I tried to watch the World Cup and the play was terrible. Did anyone see Bill Buckner playing in goal for England in the US game? 1-0, 0-0...pick a boring three hours. The game is also played by a bunch of choke artists. I don't know how many times I saw what would be considered wide open nets and they missed the goal. In hockey, wide open nets end up goals. The players don't choke.

Watching video of the oil spill is more exciting than watching the World Cup.

The world and suburban parents whose kids aren't good at baseball, football, basketball or hockey can have soccer.

[johnnyzip84]

No, not "successful". i'm not sure how long you've been around, but our soccer program has already been "successful" for decades. But last year, we had the ultimate honor of being undefeated and ranked #1 in the nation.

If you go back, you'll see that I participated in this thread to dispute the point that NE Ohio is full of soccer fans just "waiting for a team to get behind". And I don't see that. I see the spike in attendance last year being mostly attributed to people just wanting to be a part of a possible national championship run by a Zips athletic team.

Even though he's not on the mainland, you'd be hard pressed to name a board member who is more informed about the UA's soccer program, past and present, than Z.I.P.

I don't think it's clearcut whether or not soccer could ever truly thrive in our area. But those of you who give it no chance to ever happen, I believe, are skewed by either their lack of involvement in the game, or their disdain for the game, or both. Does it surprise anyone here that the Seattle Sounders, with one of the worst records in MLS, still are able to draw over 30,000 fans for each home game? Some of you will cite the eccentric nature of those who live in the Pacific Northwest as the reason for this apparent anomaly. But that's a convenient conclusion to draw for someone who has already made their mind up on the issue. I believe the MLS, while not without it's problems (especially DC United), will experience significant attendance increases with the expansion into Vancouver, Portland, and Montreal over the next two years. As the health of MLS improves, the chances for new successful franchises to be established anywhere in the US will no doubt improve as well. Of course, the expected nasty labor relations foreseen in the "big" pro sports leagues in the coming years wouldn't hurt MLS either.

[skip-zip]

No, not "successful". i'm not sure how long you've been around, but our soccer program has already been "successful" for decades. But last year, we had the ultimate honor of being undefeated and ranked #1 in the nation.

If you go back, you'll see that I participated in this thread to dispute the point that NE Ohio is full of soccer fans just "waiting for a team to get behind". And I don't see that. I see the spike in attendance last year being mostly attributed to people just wanting to be a part of a possible national championship run by a Zips athletic team.

Even though he's not on the mainland, you'd be hard pressed to name a board member who is more informed about the UA's soccer program, past and present, than Z.I.P.

I don't think it's clearcut whether or not soccer could ever truly thrive in our area. But those of you who give it no chance to ever happen, I believe, are skewed by either their lack of involvement in the game, or their disdain for the game, or both. Does it surprise anyone here that the Seattle Sounders, with one of the worst records in MLS, still are able to draw over 30,000 fans for each home game? Some of you will cite the eccentric nature of those who live in the Pacific Northwest as the reason for this apparent anomaly. But that's a convenient conclusion to draw for someone who has already made their mind up on the issue. I believe the MLS, while not without it's problems (especially DC United), will experience significant attendance increases with the expansion into Vancouver, Portland, and Montreal over the next two years. As the health of MLS improves, the chances for new successful franchises to be established anywhere in the US will no doubt improve as well. Of course, the expected nasty labor relations foreseen in the "big" pro sports leagues in the coming years wouldn't hurt MLS either.

Please don't misinterpret my post. It had nothing to do with whether this gentleman is "knowledgable about UA soccer'. I actually admire his passion for the sport. Secondly, I was simply being informative about our soccer program's success in past decades, not knowing whether he is old enough to have been around when we had all of our other good teams going back 20-30 years.

[Z.I.P.]

As far as Zips soccer goes, I know all about them having to stop the sale of tickets several days in advance for a few of our games last year. But, they were limiting the sales to about 3,000, and a little more during the tournament games with the temporary bleachers. And in a couple of cases, they let that stretch another day or two, and let a couple hundred more tickets sell. But, if your projection of 10,000 were true, you'd have to assume about 7,000 or so people got turned away. It didn't happen. And just for the sake of your point, lets assume that 10,000 people did show up. Would you assume that they were "soccer fans"?

Skip-Zip, I've been reading your comments, and trying hard not to get drawn into what to me sounds like trolling, but I would really like to understand your logic. I don't personally think Ohio is a very good market for sports in general --with obvious exceptions like Bucknutz FB and BB, which gets tons of free publicity and the belief that failing to support it is "unpatriotic". However the statement about how many attendees at a game are "soccer fans" mystifies me. Are you trying to say that the sport can only draw if it is successful? Well, duh! Maybe UA could average around 20,000 in their new football stadium, if they were MAC champions or contenders. Does that mean most of those wouldn't be "real football fans", just bandwagon joiners? I'll try to keep as objective a perspective on this discussion as I can, considering I have pretty much given up on any football game that isn't The Beautiful Game. Sorry about that. Maybe if alma mater becomes a force worth paying attention to, I'll come back.

No, not "successful". i'm not sure how long you've been around, but our soccer program has already been "successful" for decades. But last year, we had the ultimate honor of being undefeated and ranked #1 in the nation.

If you go back, you'll see that I participated in this thread to dispute the point that NE Ohio is full of soccer fans just "waiting for a team to get behind". And I don't see that. I see the spike in attendance last year being mostly attributed to people just wanting to be a part of a possible national championship run by a Zips athletic team.

Don't worry about putting off old Z.I.P. I've been listening to people who don't "get" soccer (including my own family) for as long as I've been watching the game -- near 40 years now. And I've been listening also to folks who just can't "get" those who don't get the game. That's the amazing thing -- it's like they live in parallel universes -- across the street from one another.

One thing that soccer non-fans don't realize, that I've found (this is part of my response to what Dave from Green said in another thread in response to my statement that soccer is "more than just a game" or words to that effect), most soccer fans I know ONLY or just about exclusively follow that sport, and don't have time to be spectators of other sports. That may not be the experience of others, but it's the case where I live. I have been around club soccer for about twenty years, and can only think of a couple of top boys players who played other games. They and their families are completely devoted to the sport. Now in girl's youth soccer, I can think of more girl players who play other games -- mostly basketball, but the top players, when they're ID's as future stars -- ODP level players for example, they concentrate on soccer as #1.

Now back to the earlier matter: Skip you wrote -- "I see the spike in attendance last year being mostly attributed to people just wanting to be a part of a possible national championship run by a Zips athletic team." Now how does that differ from fans "Just waiting for a team to get behind"? That's what I don't get. I'm just waiting for a Akron football team to get behind. But if I watch them, I still won't pay much attention to other college games, let alone the pros. But then again, my mirth for pro football is no different from other pro sports -- I only watch MLS (and overseas leagues) and when possible, NHL. And I'd probably prefer for things to stay the way they are. If soccer became as "mainstream" as the other sports, it would have to become a tool of TV and merchandising like those other games. We have enought "Becks" in American soccer, without a "Decision" Hour for Landon Donovan.

[johnnyzip84]

No, not "successful". i'm not sure how long you've been around, but our soccer program has already been "successful" for decades. But last year, we had the ultimate honor of being undefeated and ranked #1 in the nation.

If you go back, you'll see that I participated in this thread to dispute the point that NE Ohio is full of soccer fans just "waiting for a team to get behind". And I don't see that. I see the spike in attendance last year being mostly attributed to people just wanting to be a part of a possible national championship run by a Zips athletic team.

Even though he's not on the mainland, you'd be hard pressed to name a board member who is more informed about the UA's soccer program, past and present, than Z.I.P.

I don't think it's clearcut whether or not soccer could ever truly thrive in our area. But those of you who give it no chance to ever happen, I believe, are skewed by either their lack of involvement in the game, or their disdain for the game, or both. Does it surprise anyone here that the Seattle Sounders, with one of the worst records in MLS, still are able to draw over 30,000 fans for each home game? Some of you will cite the eccentric nature of those who live in the Pacific Northwest as the reason for this apparent anomaly. But that's a convenient conclusion to draw for someone who has already made their mind up on the issue. I believe the MLS, while not without it's problems (especially DC United), will experience significant attendance increases with the expansion into Vancouver, Portland, and Montreal over the next two years. As the health of MLS improves, the chances for new successful franchises to be established anywhere in the US will no doubt improve as well. Of course, the expected nasty labor relations foreseen in the "big" pro sports leagues in the coming years wouldn't hurt MLS either.

Please don't misinterpret my post. It had nothing to do with whether this gentleman is "knowledgable about UA soccer'. I actually admire his passion for the sport. Secondly, I was simply being informative about our soccer program's success in past decades, not knowing whether he is old enough to have been around when we had all of our other good teams going back 20-30 years.

Oh, I understood what you meant. I just found it peculiar that someone as active as you are on this board didn't realize how long Z.I.P. had been following UA soccer and soccer in general. Your attempt to "inform" him of UA's soccer history gave me a little chuckle. That's all. No harm, no foul (foul works in lot's of sports).

[Spin]

The thread is "Is Akron a soccer city?".

Marketing studies found hot spots around the country, St Louis, Seattle, NE Ohio, Milwaukee, LA, parts of the south, Baltimore (not as much)... And lo and behold, that's where the most successful franchises have been located. Minor league, indoor, and in Seattle's case, MLS as well. If we built a stadium (like Columbus did) we'd be right there.

Akron is a soccer city.

If you don't like soccer, you don't like soccer. That doesn't mean it's a bad market. I can't stand golf, Watching men walk around in yutzie clothes, wacking a ball that's not moving, and everyone acting like they're doing brain surgery and the slightest fart will ruin the entire tournament, I played it once, tried to watch it, I don't get it. Pro miniature golf would be more entertaining to me. So by your logic, that means because some people don't get it, they shouldn't have the Bridgestone Invitational in Akron. That would be a pretty self-centered myopic view, doncha think?...

Now, just because the area is a hotbed, doesn't mean you can put 22 players out there and throw them a ball and everyone will come watch. First they have to know about it. That takes MARKETING, a recurrent theme here. Last year was the first time many people realized there was a soccer program, and that it was doing so well. (And that we played tOSU). They found out by stories on the front page of the sports section, being on all the local TV news. Once they found out, it was on. Even students were shut out of going to the games. So I guess you can say you don't NEED an aggressive marketing program, you just need the #1 ranked team in the nation. There you go Keith and Rob, you know what to do now.

Can they outdraw bad football? I've been to Zips games in some pretty bad years... I'd put a brew on that bet. Hopefully the football team will be much improved and we'll never find out. If so I'll still buy you a beer.

[Dr Z]

I don't know how many times I saw what would be considered wide open nets and they missed the goal. In hockey, wide open nets end up goals. The players don't choke.

I always thought the EXACT same thing.

I'm not sure Akron is a soccer city, I bet it is more of a soccer city than say, Pittsburgh, since the Penguins have moved out of Mellon arena. There are talks of what to do with it, arena football, WNBA etc, but no mention of soccer. I think with the success of the Zips soccer program, more and more fans of soccer can create the demand. Of course, time will tell.

[Zipmeister]

No, not "successful". i'm not sure how long you've been around, but our soccer program has already been "successful" for decades. But last year, we had the ultimate honor of being undefeated and ranked #1 in the nation.

If you go back, you'll see that I participated in this thread to dispute the point that NE Ohio is full of soccer fans just "waiting for a team to get behind". And I don't see that. I see the spike in attendance last year being mostly attributed to people just wanting to be a part of a possible national championship run by a Zips athletic team.

Even though he's not on the mainland, you'd be hard pressed to name a board member who is more informed about the UA's soccer program, past and present, than Z.I.P.

I don't think it's clearcut whether or not soccer could ever truly thrive in our area. But those of you who give it no chance to ever happen, I believe, are skewed by either their lack of involvement in the game, or their disdain for the game, or both. Does it surprise anyone here that the Seattle Sounders, with one of the worst records in MLS, still are able to draw over 30,000 fans for each home game? Some of you will cite the eccentric nature of those who live in the Pacific Northwest as the reason for this apparent anomaly. But that's a convenient conclusion to draw for someone who has already made their mind up on the issue. I believe the MLS, while not without it's problems (especially DC United), will experience significant attendance increases with the expansion into Vancouver, Portland, and Montreal over the next two years. As the health of MLS improves, the chances for new successful franchises to be established anywhere in the US will no doubt improve as well. Of course, the expected nasty labor relations foreseen in the "big" pro sports leagues in the coming years wouldn't hurt MLS either.

Please don't misinterpret my post. It had nothing to do with whether this gentleman is "knowledgable about UA soccer'. I actually admire his passion for the sport. Secondly, I was simply being informative about our soccer program's success in past decades, not knowing whether he is old enough to have been around when we had all of our other good teams going back 20-30 years.

Oh, I understood what you meant. I just found it peculiar that someone as active as you are on this board didn't realize how long Z.I.P. had been following UA soccer and soccer in general. Your attempt to "inform" him of UA's soccer history gave me a little chuckle. That's all. No harm, no foul (foul works in lot's of sports).

Actually, the Zips soccer success now goes back more than 40 years.

[xu9697]

Well, based on season ticket sales according to gozips.com...looking pretty good as a "soccer included" city.

I have always been a huge fan of soccer, love to see the renovations at Akron.

Go Zips!!!

[skip-zip]

As far as Zips soccer goes, I know all about them having to stop the sale of tickets several days in advance for a few of our games last year. But, they were limiting the sales to about 3,000, and a little more during the tournament games with the temporary bleachers. And in a couple of cases, they let that stretch another day or two, and let a couple hundred more tickets sell. But, if your projection of 10,000 were true, you'd have to assume about 7,000 or so people got turned away. It didn't happen. And just for the sake of your point, lets assume that 10,000 people did show up. Would you assume that they were "soccer fans"?

Skip-Zip, I've been reading your comments, and trying hard not to get drawn into what to me sounds like trolling, but I would really like to understand your logic. I don't personally think Ohio is a very good market for sports in general --with obvious exceptions like Bucknutz FB and BB, which gets tons of free publicity and the belief that failing to support it is "unpatriotic". However the statement about how many attendees at a game are "soccer fans" mystifies me. Are you trying to say that the sport can only draw if it is successful? Well, duh! Maybe UA could average around 20,000 in their new football stadium, if they were MAC champions or contenders. Does that mean most of those wouldn't be "real football fans", just bandwagon joiners? I'll try to keep as objective a perspective on this discussion as I can, considering I have pretty much given up on any football game that isn't The Beautiful Game. Sorry about that. Maybe if alma mater becomes a force worth paying attention to, I'll come back.

No, not "successful". i'm not sure how long you've been around, but our soccer program has already been "successful" for decades. But last year, we had the ultimate honor of being undefeated and ranked #1 in the nation.

If you go back, you'll see that I participated in this thread to dispute the point that NE Ohio is full of soccer fans just "waiting for a team to get behind". And I don't see that. I see the spike in attendance last year being mostly attributed to people just wanting to be a part of a possible national championship run by a Zips athletic team.

Don't worry about putting off old Z.I.P. I've been listening to people who don't "get" soccer (including my own family) for as long as I've been watching the game -- near 40 years now. And I've been listening also to folks who just can't "get" those who don't get the game. That's the amazing thing -- it's like they live in parallel universes -- across the street from one another.

One thing that soccer non-fans don't realize, that I've found (this is part of my response to what Dave from Green said in another thread in response to my statement that soccer is "more than just a game" or words to that effect), most soccer fans I know ONLY or just about exclusively follow that sport, and don't have time to be spectators of other sports. That may not be the experience of others, but it's the case where I live. I have been around club soccer for about twenty years, and can only think of a couple of top boys players who played other games. They and their families are completely devoted to the sport. Now in girl's youth soccer, I can think of more girl players who play other games -- mostly basketball, but the top players, when they're ID's as future stars -- ODP level players for example, they concentrate on soccer as #1.

Now back to the earlier matter: Skip you wrote -- "I see the spike in attendance last year being mostly attributed to people just wanting to be a part of a possible national championship run by a Zips athletic team." Now how does that differ from fans "Just waiting for a team to get behind"? That's what I don't get. I'm just waiting for a Akron football team to get behind. But if I watch them, I still won't pay much attention to other college games, let alone the pros. But then again, my mirth for pro football is no different from other pro sports -- I only watch MLS (and overseas leagues) and when possible, NHL. And I'd probably prefer for things to stay the way they are. If soccer became as "mainstream" as the other sports, it would have to become a tool of TV and merchandising like those other games. We have enought "Becks" in American soccer, without a "Decision" Hour for Landon Donovan.

You omitted an important part....SOCCER fans waiting for a team to get behind.

I guess you can answer your own question. Do you think that the spike in attendance was due to soccer fans coming out to support a soccer team? Or...Zips sports fans, and sports fans in general wanting to see an athletic squad on their way to a possible national championship? My opinion is that it was predominantly the latter. I don't think that it had much to do with some sudden outpouring of local soccer fans just chomping at the bit for a soccer team to support. I personally have been to many of our games over the years, and have a pretty decent knowledge of the sport....and you might be surprised at the number of people sitting around me at our games who have absolutely no idea what is going on. They didn't understand the sport, might nat not want to understand the sport. They were there for the experience of being a part of a nationally top-ranked athletic team.

[Spin]

Soccer is very VERY polarizing, as we have seen here. A big precentage of sports fans are NOT going to go watch soccer even if it's a national contender. As many have said, they would rather watch paint dry.

The bandwagon jumpers may go to see the MAC Tourney, and the NCAA tourney. They may go to see us play Ohio State. But they're not going to be buying season tickets to sit and watch soccer for hours and hours in all kinds of weather. You have to like or love soccer to do that.

The jump in season ticket sales, as much as anything else, answers this whole thread.

[ZachTheZip]

There's a huge difference between sports at the pro level and the collegiate level that comes into play here. A lot of Zips soccer fans are likely just Zips fans that are supporting a successful Zips team. They are supporting their school or alma mater or community. That doesn't really translate to the professional level where you don't have that connection to the prospective fans.

[Spin]

And the AK Rowdies go because they have to, blah blah blah...

The simple fact everyone is ignoring, if you look at the fans who go, you can tell they are a lot of SOCCER fans. You can see it in the clothes they wear, the teams they talk about, the strategies they discuss. If you want to debate that somehow, I'll continue this dead horse beating.

[ZachTheZip]

And the AK Rowdies go because they have to, blah blah blah...

You know that's not true. A significant percentage of the Rowdies I know are actual soccer fans. They follow the Premier League, they play FIFA videogames, and they organize pick-up games of soccer on campus.

Most of the older alumni crowd, however, does not display this love for the game.

[Spin]

Now you know the fans there are not just alumni. You're avoiding the obvious fact. Along with the fans of AU and the alumni and any other stinking group you can come up with, there are also S O C C E R fans there.

Give it up. No more of this crap "well, you know, the janitor from Kolbe Hall goes and he's not a soccer fan." Weak. You got nothing.