Is the MAC the same as Pluto

[GP1]

We love to debate this so I have a good analogy. Will the MAC suffer the same fate as Pluto. Growing up, Pluto was a planet damn it and we all knew it. After looking at it for a while, scientists have had second thoughts about Pluto being a planet. In fact, it is no longer a planet for the reasons outlined in the link.

Maybe we need to look at the MAC and other non-bcs schools and ask ourselves if they are really D-1A conferences or not. If they aren't, what are they? If they are, why? Is the MAC a Dwarf D-1A conference like Pluto is a Dwarf Planet? I don't know why everyone gets so upset at these questions. Questions are part of being human and are at the core of learning...UofA is a learning institution. Being a Dwarf Conference is a heck of a lot better than being an asteroid (I-AA). We need to decide what we are and where we need to be. If it is a new division of football, then so be it.....something between D-1A and I-AA.

Pluto is still going around the Sun even though it is not called a planet. Pluto still has a ton of fans. There is even a Pluto fan club. The MAC will still have college football if it is no longer a D-1A conference. There might even be more fans if the NCAA did it right. Pluto probably has more fans today than it did when it was a planet.

[Zipgrad01]

We love to debate this so I have a good analogy. Will the MAC suffer the same fate as Pluto. Growing up, Pluto was a planet damn it and we all knew it. After looking at it for a while, scientists have had second thoughts about Pluto being a planet. In fact, it is no longer a planet for the reasons outlined in the link.

Maybe we need to look at the MAC and other non-bcs schools and ask ourselves if they are really D-1A conferences or not. If they aren't, what are they? If they are, why? Is the MAC a Dwarf D-1A conference like Pluto is a Dwarf Planet? I don't know why everyone gets so upset at these questions. Questions are part of being human and are at the core of learning...UofA is a learning institution. Being a Dwarf Conference is a heck of a lot better than being an asteroid (I-AA). We need to decide what we are and where we need to be. If it is a new division of football, then so be it.....something between D-1A and I-AA.

Pluto is still going around the Sun even though it is not called a planet. Pluto still has a ton of fans. There is even a Pluto fan club. The MAC will still have college football if it is no longer a D-1A conference. There might even be more fans if the NCAA did it right. Pluto probably has more fans today than it did when it was a planet.

I won't speak for everyone, but the day we drop from D-1a I will no longer renew 6 priority reserved tickets. I doubt that I would even attend a game.

You will never convince me that teams in places like Starkville, MS, Blacksburg, va or Morgantown, WV have anything on a team in one of the largest metropolitan areas in the country in the heart of high school football talent. We just need the right pieces of the puzzle, but we havent found them yet.

[Z.I.P.]

We love to debate this so I have a good analogy. Will the MAC suffer the same fate as Pluto. Growing up, Pluto was a planet damn it and we all knew it. After looking at it for a while, scientists have had second thoughts about Pluto being a planet. In fact, it is no longer a planet for the reasons outlined in the link.

Maybe we need to look at the MAC and other non-bcs schools and ask ourselves if they are really D-1A conferences or not. If they aren't, what are they? If they are, why? Is the MAC a Dwarf D-1A conference like Pluto is a Dwarf Planet? I don't know why everyone gets so upset at these questions. Questions are part of being human and are at the core of learning...UofA is a learning institution. Being a Dwarf Conference is a heck of a lot better than being an asteroid (I-AA). We need to decide what we are and where we need to be. If it is a new division of football, then so be it.....something between D-1A and I-AA.

Pluto is still going around the Sun even though it is not called a planet. Pluto still has a ton of fans. There is even a Pluto fan club. The MAC will still have college football if it is no longer a D-1A conference. There might even be more fans if the NCAA did it right. Pluto probably has more fans today than it did when it was a planet.

What do you expect from a planet named after a bad sportswriter?

[RowdyZip]

These topics and posts are getting old. We get it. You think Akron should be 1AA. The vast majority of folks here, and alumni in general, most likely strongly disagree with you. I'm beginning to see trollish tendencies.

[Zipgrad01]

These topics and posts are getting old. We get it. You think Akron should be 1AA. The vast majority of folks here, and alumni in general, most likely strongly disagree with you. I'm beginning to see trollish tendencies.

Syracuse, Louisville, Marshall, East Carolina, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, UCF, Baylor, Kansas State, Kansas, Michigan State, Illinois, Southern Miss, Vandy, Houston, Washington State, Minnesota, Iowa State, Memphis, Duke, NC State, .....I could go on and on. According to your logic these teams should switch divisions too because they lose money and they rarely if ever compete with the big boys (top 20).

[skip-zip]

We love to debate this so I have a good analogy. Will the MAC suffer the same fate as Pluto. Growing up, Pluto was a planet damn it and we all knew it. After looking at it for a while, scientists have had second thoughts about Pluto being a planet. In fact, it is no longer a planet for the reasons outlined in the link.

Maybe we need to look at the MAC and other non-bcs schools and ask ourselves if they are really D-1A conferences or not. If they aren't, what are they? If they are, why? Is the MAC a Dwarf D-1A conference like Pluto is a Dwarf Planet? I don't know why everyone gets so upset at these questions. Questions are part of being human and are at the core of learning...UofA is a learning institution. Being a Dwarf Conference is a heck of a lot better than being an asteroid (I-AA). We need to decide what we are and where we need to be. If it is a new division of football, then so be it.....something between D-1A and I-AA.

Pluto is still going around the Sun even though it is not called a planet. Pluto still has a ton of fans. There is even a Pluto fan club. The MAC will still have college football if it is no longer a D-1A conference. There might even be more fans if the NCAA did it right. Pluto probably has more fans today than it did when it was a planet.

What do you expect from a planet named after a bad sportswriter?

[Wally B]

Ahhh GP1.... that's what i love about you.... You're always the optimist!

Honestly though you've been on here as long as i have and probably remember the days where the only coverage we got was a blurb on page 6 of the beacon sports section mentioning last weekends score and the season schedule on an Acme bag. The school, program, facilities, Rowdies, and yes the NATION have grown.... A LOT in the last Ten years. Used to be the NATION was the ONLY source of information on Zips athletics.... Now its the only "quality" source.... most of the time

Take it from someone who has watched this from a far. I left Akron in 95' just before things got going again. I've watched everything steadily improve and gained perspective from living near other d1a programs across the country. Believe me their crap smells too

Yet last weekend i was in town and grabbed a Gyro and some jojo's on exchange when i got in, and cruised Main on my way out. Believe it or not there were actually CARS on exhange and all along Main. Following night i stopped at the Lockview to grab a Lambic, Dowtown was packed. Concert at Lock 3, Fireworks for the Aeros, and the Barley House was rocking. It was a GREAT atmosphere and the city was ALive! Sad the Aeros are out of town this weekend but i'm sure Main will represent Akron just fine for the Purported 1,000's of Syracuse fans coming down for the game. Hell that might be more than everybody at the VTech game at the Bowl. We've got the Zoo, Northside, Don Drumm and the Valley to accentuate the city and school. Yet what hasn't changed is the ol NEOhio, economy sucks, the grass is greener mentality. It needs to go! You wanna remember what it was like, take a ride through Downtown Youngstown. They didn't keep their research like Akron did and they are truely hitting bottom! But you're right, nothing ever happens in Akron, we clearly haven't done anything and now is the time to give up and join Youngstown in the FCS!

Sorry Capn' the Nation will have to go too

[RootforRoo44]

love your spin on it GP1 but i personally am not too big on dropping down. I wont say i wouldnt go to any more games but i sure as hell wouldn't be as excited as i am now for saturday.

[GP1]

love your spin on it GP1 but i personally am not too big on dropping down. I wont say i wouldnt go to any more games but i sure as hell wouldn't be as excited as i am now for saturday.

When the BCS was created, did anyone say those schools were moving up? Of course not. I realize it isn't a division of the NCAA officially, but it basically is.

If the non-BCS schools created their own division, why would that be moving down?

[GP1]

We just need the right pieces of the puzzle, but we havent found them yet.

Them? We haven't found one!!! It's been 20+ years. Is Moses leading the Athletic Department/MAC?

[GP1]

Honestly though you've been on here as long as i have and probably remember the days where the only coverage we got was a blurb on page 6 of the beacon sports section mentioning last weekends score and the season schedule on an Acme bag. The school, program, facilities, Rowdies, and yes the NATION have grown.... A LOT in the last Ten years. Used to be the NATION was the ONLY source of information on Zips athletics.... Now its the only "quality" source.... most of the time

Take it from someone who has watched this from a far. I left Akron in 95' just before things got going again. I've watched everything steadily improve and gained perspective from living near other d1a programs across the country. Believe me their crap smells too

Yet last weekend i was in town and grabbed a Gyro and some jojo's on exchange when i got in, and cruised Main on my way out. Believe it or not there were actually CARS on exhange and all along Main. Following night i stopped at the Lockview to grab a Lambic, Dowtown was packed. Concert at Lock 3, Fireworks for the Aeros, and the Barley House was rocking. It was a GREAT atmosphere and the city was ALive! Sad the Aeros are out of town this weekend but i'm sure Main will represent Akron just fine for the Purported 1,000's of Syracuse fans coming down for the game. Hell that might be more than everybody at the VTech game at the Bowl. We've got the Zoo, Northside, Don Drumm and the Valley to accentuate the city and school. Yet what hasn't changed is the ol NEOhio, economy sucks, the grass is greener mentality. It needs to go! You wanna remember what it was like, take a ride through Downtown Youngstown. They didn't keep their research like Akron did and they are truely hitting bottom! But you're right, nothing ever happens in Akron, we clearly haven't done anything and now is the time to give up and join Youngstown in the FCS!

What goes on around UofA should have nothing to do with what goes on at UofA.

[GP1]

I'll ask everyone again. What evidence is there showing we are a D-IA school and the MAC is a D-1A conference in anything but saying they are?

[g-mann17]

I'll ask everyone again. What evidence is there showing we are a D-IA school and the MAC is a D-1A conference in anything but saying they are?

What evidence is there to suggest you have any importance other than you saying you do?

Look we get it, you think one way, everyone else thinks the other. You're an elitist that thinks no one should ever try to be more than they are. "They have too much money, we can never be like that" you have fun in your world.

[Dr Z]

Wasn't Pluto addicted to porn?

[Blue & Gold]

Honestly though you've been on here as long as i have and probably remember the days where the only coverage we got was a blurb on page 6 of the beacon sports section mentioning last weekends score and the season schedule on an Acme bag. The school, program, facilities, Rowdies, and yes the NATION have grown.... A LOT in the last Ten years. Used to be the NATION was the ONLY source of information on Zips athletics.... Now its the only "quality" source.... most of the time

Take it from someone who has watched this from a far. I left Akron in 95' just before things got going again. I've watched everything steadily improve and gained perspective from living near other d1a programs across the country. Believe me their crap smells too

Yet last weekend i was in town and grabbed a Gyro and some jojo's on exchange when i got in, and cruised Main on my way out. Believe it or not there were actually CARS on exhange and all along Main. Following night i stopped at the Lockview to grab a Lambic, Dowtown was packed. Concert at Lock 3, Fireworks for the Aeros, and the Barley House was rocking. It was a GREAT atmosphere and the city was ALive! Sad the Aeros are out of town this weekend but i'm sure Main will represent Akron just fine for the Purported 1,000's of Syracuse fans coming down for the game. Hell that might be more than everybody at the VTech game at the Bowl. We've got the Zoo, Northside, Don Drumm and the Valley to accentuate the city and school. Yet what hasn't changed is the ol NEOhio, economy sucks, the grass is greener mentality. It needs to go! You wanna remember what it was like, take a ride through Downtown Youngstown. They didn't keep their research like Akron did and they are truely hitting bottom! But you're right, nothing ever happens in Akron, we clearly haven't done anything and now is the time to give up and join Youngstown in the FCS!

What goes on around UofA should have nothing to do with what goes on at UofA.

No way, GP1, or should I say... JAKE!

[xu9697]

I don't know how much different it is than any other sport right now (besides maybe the NFL).

Only a handful of teams in MLB, NBA, NCAA B-ball (yes, I know dream seasons happen= Butler, Indiana State 30 years ago, etc.) and NCAA football have a legitimate/ REALISTIC shot at a CHAMPIONSHIP.

The MAC is the lower end of FBS football= they are the Pirates, the Nationals...and, gulp, the Indians. But the TALENT is still greater than the next level down overall (FCS), the scholarships are the same, and, really, when looking specifically at Akron= SOME of facilities are on par or better than some of the other non-MAC/non-BCS schools and even some of the BCS schools= I could make arguments for Akron's facilities vs. UC, BC, Syracuse and others.

Going back to the Championship= that is where it gets a bit cloudier. Many teams would have a hard time getting into the championship game this year unless they are "slotted" high. Some would even have a hard time getting to the BCS. But, yes, BCS conferences have a DISTINCT advantage b/c they are guaranteed a slot in a BCS game if they do win their conference. That is where the biggest argument against the MAC and other non-BCS conferences lies.

If Akron started to put together seasons like Boise did back-2-back-2 back...then they could get in that stratosphere of possible BCS team. If Boise friggin State could do it, a team in Idaho in the WAC that plays on blue turf...then it is within the realm of possibility. Of course...Akron better do it soon b/c the next few years are looking like they will bring more of a division btwn BCS and non-BCS schools.

[K92]

Wasn't Pluto addicted to porn?

Does this guy look like a porn addict to you?

[skip-zip]

I'll ask everyone again. What evidence is there showing we are a D-IA school and the MAC is a D-1A conference in anything but saying they are?

Easy Answer: The MAC member schools are able to get listed in the Top-25 D-1A polls and BCS standings. And no matter how slight the chances, we are eligible to win the D-1A National Championship. And we all play the majority of our schedules against those other 120 of the best teams in the country.

The things you are able to accomplish in the other divisions are not even remotely comparable. And that's more than enough of a reason for me to want Akron to stay right where they are.

[Blue & Gold]

The things you are able to accomplish in the other divisions are not even remotely comparable. And that's more than enough of a reason for me to want Akron to stay right where they are.

I was w/ a friend (albeit, a girl) last night driving by Mount Union. But for a girl, she's quite into sports & she asked, "Is Mount Union known for anything." I replied, "Well, football, I guess. They win the D-III National Championship just about every year." She said, "Really? I've never even heard of them."

D-I or nothin'!

Go Zips!

[skip-zip]

The things you are able to accomplish in the other divisions are not even remotely comparable. And that's more than enough of a reason for me to want Akron to stay right where they are.

I was w/ a friend (albeit, a girl) last night driving by Mount Union. But for a girl, she's quite into sports & she asked, "Is Mount Union known for anything." I replied, "Well, football, I guess. They win the D-III National Championship just about every year." She said, "Really? I've never even heard of them."

D-I or nothin'!

Go Zips!

Amen!!

With all due respect to Mount Union, because their national titles do mean "something", I practically yawn when watching their highlights during the DIII playoffs every year. And have you ever seen their stadium? And it's probably one of the better ones in DIII.

This illustrates the other part of this equation that some people don't get. If we drop to a lower division, donor interest will diminish, the talent pool of good athletes will diminish, and right on down the line. If someone thinks our nice new stadium looks empty now during some games, wait until we are trying to get people in the stands for an upcoming game against Northwest Central (insert any state name here) State University.

[Z.I.P.]

I'll ask everyone again. What evidence is there showing we are a D-IA school and the MAC is a D-1A conference in anything but saying they are?

I think most of you are missing GP-1's point. Which, as I understand, is: Akron's existence as some kind of "major college" football program is nothing but a pretense. They are not now, and have virtually no chance in the future of becoming a major player in college football.

Unfortunately, at this point in time, I am afraid the weight of the evidence is in GP-1's corner. But the part I don't understand personally, is all the emotion being blown off at how the University of Akron's status in college football reflects the status of the city of Akron vis-a-vis similar and familiar cities. Is Akron a better place to live than Youngstown based on its college football experience? Does it mean that Akron is a better city than Cleveland, because the Forest City/Mistake on the Lake (choose your favorite) lacks a FBS football program? There are many excellent locales -- and many great universities which provide development and pride to their areas, which have no college football at all.

[dreal1scout]

I'll ask everyone again. What evidence is there showing we are a D-IA school and the MAC is a D-1A conference in anything but saying they are?

I think most of you are missing GP-1's point. Which, as I understand, is: Akron's existence as some kind of "major college" football program is nothing but a pretense. They are not now, and have virtually no chance in the future of becoming a major player in college football.

Unfortunately, at this point in time, I am afraid the weight of the evidence is in GP-1's corner. But the part I don't understand personally, is all the emotion being blown off at how the University of Akron's status in college football reflects the status of the city of Akron vis-a-vis similar and familiar cities. Is Akron a better place to live than Youngstown based on its college football experience? Does it mean that Akron is a better city than Cleveland, because the Forest City/Mistake on the Lake (choose your favorite) lacks a FBS football program? There are many excellent locales -- and many great universities which provide development and pride to their areas, which have no college football at all.

I think I get ya Z.I.P. You mean like St. Bonaventure University in Salamanca, NY. ?

[Dave in Green]

What exactly defines "successful" in D1A college football as it relates to UA? Some people would define "successful" for UA as averaging more wins than losses. Some would say UA has to regularly dominate the MAC to be successful. Some would say that UA has to become a regular top 25 team to be successful. Some would say that UA would occasionally have to challenge for the national championship to be successful.

People have different expectations, and there's nothing the UA football program could do to please everyone. If the Zips somehow won the national championship, someone would be on this forum complaining that they won it ugly and didn't deserve it.

Reality is that UA has recently made major investments to improve many aspects of the football program. We can only guess how that will work out over time.

Pulling the plug immediately after making such an investment is probably the least prudent move. The best times to evaluate whether it's time to push forward or fall back is either before a major investment is made or after measurements can be made about the return on an investment already made.

How much time is needed to collect and analyze meaningful data about the level of progress? Again, there will be no agreement in this thread on a firm definition. Some people want to quit right now without waiting to see any results, and at the opposite end others will want to soldier on no matter what the results. Between the two extremes is a broad range of choices ranging from reevaluating the status of Zips football in a few months to a few years.

Personally, I'd like to see where UA football is after the next three seasons. I think that three years is long enough to show a results trend from recent investments. There still won't be agreement on ZN.O about how successful the investments were, because people will still disagree on the definition of "successful" as it relates to Zips football. But by then the folks at UA who actually pulled the trigger on those investments will have to face the cold, hard reality of whether or not the return is in line with their expectations.

[GP1]

Wasn't Pluto addicted to porn?

Does this guy look like a porn addict to you?

Actually.....yes he does. I'm not kidding either.

[GP1]

I'll ask everyone again. What evidence is there showing we are a D-IA school and the MAC is a D-1A conference in anything but saying they are?

I think most of you are missing GP-1's point. Which, as I understand, is: Akron's existence as some kind of "major college" football program is nothing but a pretense. They are not now, and have virtually no chance in the future of becoming a major player in college football.

Unfortunately, at this point in time, I am afraid the weight of the evidence is in GP-1's corner. But the part I don't understand personally, is all the emotion being blown off at how the University of Akron's status in college football reflects the status of the city of Akron vis-a-vis similar and familiar cities. Is Akron a better place to live than Youngstown based on its college football experience? Does it mean that Akron is a better city than Cleveland, because the Forest City/Mistake on the Lake (choose your favorite) lacks a FBS football program? There are many excellent locales -- and many great universities which provide development and pride to their areas, which have no college football at all.

I knew Z.I.P. would get it. He's a smart guy who only had to use a fraction of his reading ability to understand what I am saying. Don't let emotion get in the way of doing the right thing or listening to others.

UofA did the right thing by building the Big Dialer. It is still not enough to compete at the highest level. It is enough to help compete in a division between D-1A and I-AA. What UofA really needs to do is play to its strengths. Our strengths are soccer and MBB. We could have a great football team if we, the MAC and the other non-BCS schools could had a way to escape the BCS schools. It would be a great college division.