State of ohio moves forward to the 1990s

[RootforRoo44]

By your logic, all forms of transportation are welfare programs. They are all in some way subsidized with public money. Even private jets usually (although not always) utilize public airports.

No, public transportation programs are things that move people. Trains, bus, subway, etc. These programs lose money everywhere other than New York City.

41 of Amtrak’s 44 routes lost money in 2008 with losses ranging from nearly $5 to $462 per passenger depending upon the line.

And they aren't cheap to ride on!

I looked into taking a train to Santa Barbara. It was way more expensive than flying.

[RootforRoo44]

This whole thing really is a slam dunk.

How could anyone who knows the facts be for this rail line? It's a ridiculous waste of money for what, some convenience for a few people?

Kasich was dead on with wanting the money for other more important things or just no one spending it. It's ridiculous the over/wasteful spending going on in this country...actually, it's SICKENING.

[ksu sucks]

Kasich was dead on with wanting the money for other more important things or just no one spending it.

Right. So refresh my memory...where did the $400 mill end up going?

[ZachTheZip]

Kasich was dead on with wanting the money for other more important things or just no one spending it.

What more important things would that be? Education? That's getting cut like a geriatric's lawn. UA and most universities are preparing for a 25% loss in state funding. Lord knows it's not going towards fixing or improving infrastructure, if the roads sewers and bridges around here are any indication. All I see are spending cuts to solve the short-term budget, with no investments to make such cuts unnecessary in the future.

[RootforRoo44]

Kasich was dead on with wanting the money for other more important things or just no one spending it.

Right. So refresh my memory...where did the $400 mill end up going?

Don't blame him. I salute him for sticking to his beliefs and promises.

I'd rather give someone else the money than have that have that money bleeding project go on.

Fact is ZachtheZip is right, we could have used that money for tons of more important things.

[you am i]

Kasich was dead on with wanting the money for other more important things or just no one spending it.

Right. So refresh my memory...where did the $400 mill end up going?

I imagine it will go to states where high speed rail might make some sense, as opposed to Ohio, which would have a train that would cost an astronomical amount of money and time to develop and for which there is no significant demand. But hey, its free money, so why not.

[Spin]

Funny how people don't consider for a minute that the Ohio network would be only part of a nationwide network of high speed trains. They would just stop in Cincinnati, right? The line through Cleveland and Toledo would just stop at the Indiana broder, right?

Come on, Ohio has been the hub of transportation since settlers started moving out of the colonies. We advertised it for years. Now all of that is going to BYPASS our fine state because some myopic politicians turned down millions of dollars, hundreds of jobs, and millions of dollars coming in from out of state.

I'll be sure to bump this thread every time gas goes up another dollar per gallon...

[zen]

or

God forbid we use it to reduce our ridiculous deficit and not spend/waste it at all.

BLASPHEMER REPENT!!!!!!!!

That is government's money and it NEVER EVER EVER spends less than it gets!

[you am i]

Funny how people don't consider for a minute that the Ohio network would be only part of a nationwide network of high speed trains. They would just stop in Cincinnati, right? The line through Cleveland and Toledo would just stop at the Indiana broder, right?

Come on, Ohio has been the hub of transportation since settlers started moving out of the colonies. We advertised it for years. Now all of that is going to BYPASS our fine state because some myopic politicians turned down millions of dollars, hundreds of jobs, and millions of dollars coming in from out of state.

I'll be sure to bump this thread every time gas goes up another dollar per gallon...

If the price of gas goes up a dollar a gallon, it won't have anything to do with high speed rail.

Also, its not like I don't think that high speed rail is a nice idea. Its just that its way too expensive given the reality is that the country is already massively in debt. As I read a columnist in another paper describe it, the federal government would not really be giving Ohio $400 million; it would be giving Ohio an empty bag with "$400 million" written on it.

[Spin]

If the price of gas goes up a dollar a gallon, it won't have anything to do with high speed rail.

BUT when it hits $5.00 and $6.00, that HSR that the other states have will look awful good...

[you am i]

If the price of gas goes up a dollar a gallon, it won't have anything to do with high speed rail.

BUT when it hits $5.00 and $6.00, that HSR that the other states have will look awful good...

Could you show me some source for your prediction that gas prices will go up that high and that it would have any relation to high speed rail? Honestly, if you have it, I truly would like to see it. When is that predicted to happen?

[ksu sucks]

I imagine it will go to states where high speed rail might make some sense, as opposed to Ohio, which would have a train that would cost an astronomical amount of money and time to develop and for which there is no significant demand. But hey, its free money, so why not.

That'll stick it to those big government blowhards.

Thank goodness those funds are being sent to Illinois. Can you imagine the demand for train rides from Chicago to Springfield? Someone pinch me, I'm dreaming of the possibilities.

[ZachTheZip]

I imagine it will go to states where high speed rail might make some sense, as opposed to Ohio, which would have a train that would cost an astronomical amount of money and time to develop and for which there is no significant demand. But hey, its free money, so why not.

That'll stick it to those big government blowhards.

Thank goodness those funds are being sent to Illinois. Can you imagine the demand for train rides from Chicago to Springfield? Someone pinch me, I'm dreaming of the possibilities.

What about the demand for train rides from NY to Chicago? Without an Ohio rail program, will that ever become a reality?

It's really about interstate travel. Nobody's going to ride a train to a place they can get to on one tank of gas. It's about providing an alternative to air travel.

[Hilltopper]

I imagine it will go to states where high speed rail might make some sense, as opposed to Ohio, which would have a train that would cost an astronomical amount of money and time to develop and for which there is no significant demand. But hey, its free money, so why not.

That'll stick it to those big government blowhards.

Thank goodness those funds are being sent to Illinois. Can you imagine the demand for train rides from Chicago to Springfield? Someone pinch me, I'm dreaming of the possibilities.

What about the demand for train rides from NY to Chicago? Without an Ohio rail program, will that ever become a reality?

It's really about interstate travel. Nobody's going to ride a train to a place they can get to on one tank of gas. It's about providing an alternative to air travel.

There already is train service from NY city to Chicago. The Lakeshore Limited. It had a problem this week.

Amtrak Loco Catches fire in Elyria

[RootforRoo44]

I imagine it will go to states where high speed rail might make some sense, as opposed to Ohio, which would have a train that would cost an astronomical amount of money and time to develop and for which there is no significant demand. But hey, its free money, so why not.

That'll stick it to those big government blowhards.

Thank goodness those funds are being sent to Illinois. Can you imagine the demand for train rides from Chicago to Springfield? Someone pinch me, I'm dreaming of the possibilities.

What about the demand for train rides from NY to Chicago? Without an Ohio rail program, will that ever become a reality?

It's really about interstate travel. Nobody's going to ride a train to a place they can get to on one tank of gas. It's about providing an alternative to air travel.

MAGLEV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ZachTheZip]

I imagine it will go to states where high speed rail might make some sense, as opposed to Ohio, which would have a train that would cost an astronomical amount of money and time to develop and for which there is no significant demand. But hey, its free money, so why not.

That'll stick it to those big government blowhards.

Thank goodness those funds are being sent to Illinois. Can you imagine the demand for train rides from Chicago to Springfield? Someone pinch me, I'm dreaming of the possibilities.

What about the demand for train rides from NY to Chicago? Without an Ohio rail program, will that ever become a reality?

It's really about interstate travel. Nobody's going to ride a train to a place they can get to on one tank of gas. It's about providing an alternative to air travel.

There already is train service from NY city to Chicago. The Lakeshore Limited. It had a problem this week.

Amtrak Loco Catches fire in Elyria

Well, never mind. Just playing devil's advocate for a minute, there.

Here's another one. Back when the Interstate highway system was created, there was a huge amount of backlash because it was believed that we were better off throwing our money into the military than worrying about things like that. What looks like the better choice today?

[Dave in Green]

..... Here's another one. Back when the Interstate highway system was created, there was a huge amount of backlash because it was believed that we were better off throwing our money into the military than worrying about things like that. What looks like the better choice today?

The interstate highway system was seen by Eisenhower as a military investment that would also serve civilian interests. From Wikipedia:

Eisenhower gained an appreciation of the German Autobahn network as a necessary component of a national defense system while he was serving as Supreme Commander of the Allied forces in Europe during World War II. He recognized that the proposed system would also provide key ground transport routes for military supplies and troop deployments in case of an emergency or foreign invasion.

[Spin]

If the price of gas goes up a dollar a gallon, it won't have anything to do with high speed rail.

BUT when it hits $5.00 and $6.00, that HSR that the other states have will look awful good...

Could you show me some source for your prediction that gas prices will go up that high and that it would have any relation to high speed rail? Honestly, if you have it, I truly would like to see it. When is that predicted to happen?

Show me where the world is NEVER going to start running out of petroleum.

And I never said the price of gas has anything to do with HSR. But WHEN petrol goes up, for any of a bunch of reasons, it sure would be nice to have an alternative mode of transportation.

Ohio is so stuck in the past I can't stand it. There are still people all over Ohio waiting around for the steel mills to open back up. WAKE UP. It's not the 50's anymore. There's a reason most of the worst rust belt wastelands are in Ohio and people are leaving everyday...

[UA Fan]

If the price of gas goes up a dollar a gallon, it won't have anything to do with high speed rail.

BUT when it hits $5.00 and $6.00, that HSR that the other states have will look awful good...

Could you show me some source for your prediction that gas prices will go up that high and that it would have any relation to high speed rail? Honestly, if you have it, I truly would like to see it. When is that predicted to happen?

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dr...sible-by-2012/1

We risk our lives every day to get from point A to point B. It's ridiculous. Cars/oil are also heavily subsidized by not charging for pollution/emissions/congestion. If the true costs of car culture were acknowledged, you would say it's a boondoggle.

[UAZipster0305]

If the price of gas goes up a dollar a gallon, it won't have anything to do with high speed rail.

BUT when it hits $5.00 and $6.00, that HSR that the other states have will look awful good...

Could you show me some source for your prediction that gas prices will go up that high and that it would have any relation to high speed rail? Honestly, if you have it, I truly would like to see it. When is that predicted to happen?

Show me where the world is NEVER going to start running out of petroleum.

And I never said the price of gas has anything to do with HSR. But WHEN petrol goes up, for any of a bunch of reasons, it sure would be nice to have an alternative mode of transportation.

Ohio is so stuck in the past I can't stand it. There are still people all over Ohio waiting around for the steel mills to open back up. WAKE UP. It's not the 50's anymore. There's a reason most of the worst rust belt wastelands are in Ohio and people are leaving everyday...

+1. HSR isn't a matter of if, it is a matter of when. Because of the current backwards, conservative thinking, Ohio will once again lag behind most other states in this development. I would rather take the train than drive or fly any day.

[you am i]

If the price of gas goes up a dollar a gallon, it won't have anything to do with high speed rail.

BUT when it hits $5.00 and $6.00, that HSR that the other states have will look awful good...

Could you show me some source for your prediction that gas prices will go up that high and that it would have any relation to high speed rail? Honestly, if you have it, I truly would like to see it. When is that predicted to happen?

Show me where the world is NEVER going to start running out of petroleum.

And I never said the price of gas has anything to do with HSR. But WHEN petrol goes up, for any of a bunch of reasons, it sure would be nice to have an alternative mode of transportation.

Ohio is so stuck in the past I can't stand it. There are still people all over Ohio waiting around for the steel mills to open back up. WAKE UP. It's not the 50's anymore. There's a reason most of the worst rust belt wastelands are in Ohio and people are leaving everyday...

+1. HSR isn't a matter of if, it is a matter of when. Because of the current backwards, conservative thinking, Ohio will once again lag behind most other states in this development. I would rather take the train than drive or fly any day.

If the argument for the train is that someday the world will run out of oil, then the discussion has gotten a little out-there. Yes, someday the world will run out of oil. But not for a few hundred years. New reserves are being found and existing reserves tend to have more supply than initially projected. Its not really a persuasive argument to build this train. Its more realistic to predict that gas prices will go up because of higher taxes than we run out of oil. I'm a believer in alternative energy sources, mainly to get us off of our dependence on foreign oil.

I actually like the idea of a high speed train in Ohio and I think it should be built when it makes financial and technical sense. It just doesn't make sense now. As I said before, the federal government has no money and is deeply in debt. The state is in bad financial shape as well. Painful budget cuts are going to have to made everywhere. There is no money.

[UAZipster0305]

If the price of gas goes up a dollar a gallon, it won't have anything to do with high speed rail.

BUT when it hits $5.00 and $6.00, that HSR that the other states have will look awful good...

Could you show me some source for your prediction that gas prices will go up that high and that it would have any relation to high speed rail? Honestly, if you have it, I truly would like to see it. When is that predicted to happen?

Show me where the world is NEVER going to start running out of petroleum.

And I never said the price of gas has anything to do with HSR. But WHEN petrol goes up, for any of a bunch of reasons, it sure would be nice to have an alternative mode of transportation.

Ohio is so stuck in the past I can't stand it. There are still people all over Ohio waiting around for the steel mills to open back up. WAKE UP. It's not the 50's anymore. There's a reason most of the worst rust belt wastelands are in Ohio and people are leaving everyday...

+1. HSR isn't a matter of if, it is a matter of when. Because of the current backwards, conservative thinking, Ohio will once again lag behind most other states in this development. I would rather take the train than drive or fly any day.

If the argument for the train is that someday the world will run out of oil, then the discussion has gotten a little out-there. Yes, someday the world will run out of oil. But not for a few hundred years. New reserves are being found and existing reserves tend to have more supply than initially projected. Its not really a persuasive argument to build this train. Its more realistic to predict that gas prices will go up because of higher taxes than we run out of oil. I'm a believer in alternative energy sources, mainly to get us off of our dependence on foreign oil.

I actually like the idea of a high speed train in Ohio and I think it should be built when it makes financial and technical sense. It just doesn't make sense now. As I said before, the federal government has no money and is deeply in debt. The state is in bad financial shape as well. Painful budget cuts are going to have to made everywhere. There is no money.

I wasn't referring to when we run out of oil, but rather when the expense of oil increases in the next 2-3 years that it becomes prohibitive for many people to drive and drastically increasing rail ridership potential. It will happen, and once again, Ohio will be behind the times. Sad.

Your budget argument doesn't work either because the money will definitely be spent. It is just that the money is now going to other states. HSR is a necessary INVESTMENT. If we wait for demand to dictate building, it will already be years late when it is finally built and operating.

[tbozeglav]

I wasn't referring to when we run out of oil, but rather when the expense of oil increases in the next 2-3 years that it becomes prohibitive for many people to drive and drastically increasing rail ridership potential. It will happen, and once again, Ohio will be behind the times. Sad.

Your budget argument doesn't work either because the money will definitely be spent. It is just that the money is now going to other states. HSR is a necessary INVESTMENT. If we wait for demand to dictate building, it will already be years late when it is finally built and operating.

+1

With a type of infrastructure like HSR, you can't wait for demand to be there to begin working on implementing it. It takes forward-thinking to see mass-transit becoming increasingly in demand and putting yourself in position to best capitalize on the demand. Ohio definitely doesn't have people in charge who are capable of thinking that far ahead. And that goes for areas outside of HSR.

[Dave in Green]

Gas prices slowly rose to over $3 per gallon in 2010, and are predicted to go over $4 this year.

[GP1]

Gas prices slowly rose to over $3 per gallon in 2010, and are predicted to go over $4 this year.

I see the same thing. The last time gas prices got real high was right before the recession. You can't take that much money out of the economy and expect anything good to happen. 2011 is going to be a tough year for this country. The price of gas is nothing more than a tax...the more you pay, the less money there is for the real economy. Oil companies will do well....how many of you work for oil comanies?

I do some consulting work for a guy who ran a major oil company. He worked in the oil industry for 35 years and has a Masters Degree from MIT in Geophysics (BS from Texas A&M). He is convinced the world is quickly running out of cheap oil. There is plenty of oil out there...if you want to pay $6.00/gal. for it. Everything has a cost and just saying drill baby drill is a childish way of avoiding a real problem.

The solution isn't urban rail systems either. We need electric cars and quickly. In order to keep them running, we need a lot of nuclear power plants built asap. Americans like to drive and the electric cars do that with little polution. Right now, we just need the power plants.